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United States22154 Posts
Chaoser is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself. (GMarshal)
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia II + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] + + Show Spoiler [Resources] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting: Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate.
Play to win.
You have been warned. + Show Spoiler +Something life-ending this way comes.
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done in this thread. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first is lynched 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups: This game is open to new players only, new meaning two or fewer games played. If I dont get enough new players I'll open it up to more experienced ones. Signups will remain open until all 12 spots have been filled
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 10 PM EST, but that is subject to change.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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United States22154 Posts
The setup is a modified version of F11; one of the following four setups is to be randomly chosen and used:
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
You will not know which setup is chosen.
Roles:
Townie You are just a normal player with no night actions. All you can do is vote during the day. But the town needs you to win so be active!
Detective You can make night investigations. Once per night you may ask for the alignment of any player. Alignments are either Town or Mafia. You are always sane. Alignment checks come back with the next day post.
Medic You have the power to save lives. Once per night you can watch a player. If your target is attacked, you will block one hit aimed at them. If you make a successful save, both you and your target will be notified of the save. You cannot save yourself.
Mafia Goon Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power is always 1 until there are no mafia remaining.
Roleblocker You are a mafia member who has the ability to prevent a player from performing a night action. Once per night, you may roleblock a player, and your target will be unable to perform night actions for that night. Your target will be informed that they have been roleblocked (even if they didn't have a night action). You do not have to use your action every night.
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United States22154 Posts
PLAYER LIST: 1. Karshe Vanilla Townie Killed Night 1 2. Palmar-Mafia Goon survives, wins! 3. VisceraEyes Vanilla Townie Endgamed 4. hiro protagonist Mafia Roleblocker Day 4 lynch 5. prplhz Vanilla Townie Day3 Lynch 6. Skrammen Vanilla Townie Night 3 kill 7. stefftastiq Vanilla Townie Endgamed 8. DeepBlu2 Vanilla Townie Night 2 kill 9. Mataza Vanilla Townie Day 2 lynch 10. GiygaS Mafia Goon Day 1 lynch 11. Wunder Vanilla Townie Day5 Lynch 12. nard- replaced by sinani206 Vanilla townie killed night 4
Replacement List 1. switchdev 2. unichan 3. sinani206
1 of 3 MAFIA remaining: 1 of 2 Goons alive 0 of 1 Roleblockers alive
0 of 9 TOWN remaining: 0 of 0 Medics alive 0 of 0 Detectives alive
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Signing up!
I've only played one game (as a smurf in RoL's last experiment). Looking forward to the fun/experience!
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/in I've been refreshing like mad as to not be the first person to sign up!
Complete newbie, be gentle.
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United States22154 Posts
I sent out recruiting PMs to all the people recently accepted to the forums and saved slots for VisceraEyes and Darrun since they expressed interest earlier to me privately.
EDIT: There were like 30 people who were granted access, this should be interesting
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Hello! I'd like to join, complete newbie here! Should be interesting indeed
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/in
I am totally new to this game and while I did read the rules, you will have to excuse me if I am not too good at the game.
I do hope we all have fun though!
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/in
have played game like this long time ago, totally love the bnet map tho
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/in
first time playing but I'll try my best.
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/in
Took quite some time to open the forums to me. I stopped checking after a while.
I sure hope this is better than the average Bnet/Epicmafia.
gl hf
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/in
If I die n1 like I do in all the other games I've playtested I'm going to ***.
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And for the record, I don't care if you're gentle to me on my first time or not - trial by fire baby.
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GMarshal, make sure to give the + Show Spoiler + role to chaoser. I'll be dissapointed if you don't.
I'm in as long as you make me the serial killer. o.0
(I know I can't play, good luck to the new recruits)
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1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town
What's the use of a setup with a Role Blocker but no PRs?
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Probably to help identifying mafia? The Mafia doesn't know there are no town roles.
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Mafia know other mafia though...from the beginning.
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The idea is that the mafia doesn't know exactly what town roles are present in the game. If the mafia only got a rolebocker when there were 2 power roles, the scum would know exactly what they were up against. Mafia already have close to perfect information and communication, they don't need to know what roles are in the game as well.
With the current set up, if the scumteam doesn't have a roleblocker, they know that there's either a medic or a DT. If they do, they know that there's either no town power roles or two town power roles.
In a normal game, the setup is much more fluid. In a theme game, you have 3rd Party Planar Dragons. The information the mafia has in this particular game is actually better than usual.
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I think the difference between
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town is, that it discourages counterclaims by mafia. If 1 mafia says he/she is the cop or the doc, it usually has some positive effect. If they want to pretend the first setup they have to show both a fake cop and fake doc. If then of them gets lynched, the other faked role goes down as well.
On second thought, this is much more complicated than this. All the stuff going just from the setup would make a real long post, so I´ll stop here.
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A signup I can't perceive!
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/sign ? i might still have a 1-game ban from last year (TLM31) when i quit mafia though so if that's a problem consider this the-game-i-want-to-play-but-cant. up to host i suppose
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United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 09:17 JeeJee wrote: /sign ? i might still have a 1-game ban from last year (TLM31) when i quit mafia though so if that's a problem consider this the-game-i-want-to-play-but-cant. up to host i suppose
Sorry man, can't let you in for two reasons, 1.) you have a pending ban, and this game follows the banlist 2.) its reserved mostly for players playing for the first time, and as far as I can see you have more than a couple games under your belt
if you want to use it for your ban count I suggest you PM Qatol/post it in the ban list so he knows you are sitting it out.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
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/in
hope there is a spot left :o played a few times mafia IRL and a few rounds of bnet mafia first time TLMafia. hoping for an even more epic experience than my previous games
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United States22154 Posts
Darrun has about 24 hours to get back to me before I give his spot away, after that we'll be starting. As usual I'm taking replacements.
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/in
im down as a replacement as well. hope to get in!
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/in
Thank you for the PM GMarshal, I'm a total newbie at this but hoping to get into it
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/in
never played this before but it looks fun, I'll sign up as a replacement anyways X)
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United States22154 Posts
Darrun didn't get back to me in time, so hiro protagonist takes his slot. we start at 02:00 GMT (+00:00) tonight
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I doubt I'll be awake 2am, so don't expect activity from me until a few hours after the game starts.
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Do I get Pmed my role...?
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United States22154 Posts
Roles being sent out now, the game dosn't start till chaoser posts the daypost though, so please refrain from game relevant discussion until then, although the mafia can chat with each other if they want, PM me if you didn't receive a role
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Will the day post include the actual setup of the game? Or will we not know if there's a Mafia Role-Blocker, or just 3 goons. Or if there's a detective or doctor?
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No one will know the setup
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United States22154 Posts
On May 16 2011 10:17 GiygaS wrote: Will the day post include the actual setup of the game? Or will we not know if there's a Mafia Role-Blocker, or just 3 goons. Or if there's a detective or doctor?
You will not be informed of what the setup is, it could be any of the four listed in the OP
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Woops sorry bout that. Didn't see that part
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Voting question: If player with most votes is lynched, then is lynching mandatory? In other words, can we decide to not lynch or are we forced to lynch every day, even if it is MyLo night?
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United States22154 Posts
On May 16 2011 10:45 Mataza wrote: Voting question: If player with most votes is lynched, then is lynching mandatory? In other words, can we decide to not lynch or are we forced to lynch every day, even if it is MyLo night?
There must always be a lynch, even at MyLo. In the case of a tie the player with the most votes first is lynched.
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Day 1:
Liquiville had known peace for a long, long time. The town, prosperous and thriving, had just entered into its 42nd year of establishment. With the celebration of this important anniversary, the town decided to open its gates to attract more settlers. And so the settlers came, and they came in droves, ready to set up residency in Liquiville and to begin their new, peaceful lives.
However, not all the townspeople came in peace. The mafia, seeing that Liquiville was so passive and defenseless, had decided to make the flourishing town their next target for conquest. Two months after the new wave of immigrants to Liquiville had settled down, they convened one night to execute their plan to take over Liquiville, and they had decided to start from the top.
Pardoner Comrade Caller was walking home after a long day at the office when it started to rain. A storm whipped up, and Caller was shivering and soaked to the bone. Seeing a taxi, he hailed it over and started to get in. However, upon looking at the driver, he saw something that made him quake even more than the freezing rain and wind had. Dropping his briefcase and coffee mug, he quickly backed away from the taxi and began to run. However, the taxi stayed on him, the bright headlights highlighting Caller’s every movement. Attempting to ditch the phantom cab, Caller turned into an alley, but after running for a few seconds, he realized it was a dead end. Turning back around, he saw his pursuer. The cab had parked outside of the alley, and the driver had gotten out, and he had a gun. Caller started to back away slowly, before he remembered who he was. Yelling in Russian, he charged headlong at his assailant, knowing that his strong-as-steel arms would be able to deflect the puny attacker’s bullets. However, the first bullet went clean through Caller’s fist, and the second went right into his heart. Little did Caller know that his killer had purchased anti-Caller bullets just for this task. As Caller lay in the alley, bleeding out, he thought back to his proud homeland of Russia. With a final sigh, and a soft call of “Nyet,” Caller died. The killer, his job completed, wiped clean his gun, walked back to his cab, and drove away into the night.
Qatol, unlike Caller, had decided to stay at the office even though he did not get paid for overtime. Pouring through contract after contract, form after form, Qatol feverishly tried to prepare all the citizenship documents. However, as the hours started to blur and Qatol’s coffee cup ran dry, Qatol decided to call it a night. Also unlike Caller, Qatol lived far away from the office, so he commuted every day. However, just as soon as Qatol had gotten into the car and cranked the engine, a bomb attached underneath the exhaust pipe exploded, spraying Qatol’s blue blood everywhere. And in an instant, it was over. What had been a perfectly operation Hellion a second ago was now just a charred frame, sizzling quietly in the rain.
Though they had agreed to content themselves to two kills per night, the Mafia had to seal the deal on this first venture of theirs. Having already taken out the Pardoner and Legal Advisor of the town, they now set their eyes upon the most prominent target in all of Liquiville: the mayor himself, flamewheel91. Two Mafia members quietly broke into and stationed themselves inside flamewheel91’s house, waiting for him to return home from his weekly late-night indoors tennis match. As they saw the car roll up, they prepared their knives, and crept toward the door, ready to kill. However, as flamewheel91 got out of his car and started walking up the driveway, a sudden lightning bolt sizzled down through the sky, instantly vaporizing flamewheel91. After the initial shock had passed, the two mafia members looked at each other and shrugged, then stealthily left the house to go rejoin their co-conspirators.
And so the game begins.
flamewheel91 the Mayor is dead. Caller the proud Soviet Pardoner is dead, da? Qatol the Legal Advisor is now dead.
The game is afoot. Day 1 will end Tuesday at 02:00 GMT (+00:00). Be sure to vote in the thread.
Plagiarism FTW.
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Okay, how should we go about doing this? A little birdie told me that at the end of the day, someone's gotta die. Who's it gonna be and why?
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At first i thought I would claim cop openly, but then I remembered that I just once saw a game where that ever worked. And boy how often it does not work.
For the time being, I suggest we treat this game as if it was setup 4, with 9 vanilla no cop no doc. There are times to claim cop, but there are no times to claim doc.
Also looking at the many other games here in TL, many games do analysis on plans that revolve around a magnitude of roles. Which we don´t have. So dear town fellas, work hard and smart because this game is probably harder than most other games you can read on here.
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Small math problem. + Show Spoiler +12 day1 ly nk 10 day2 ly nk 8 day 3 ly nk 6 day4 Since *not* lynching is also *not* an option, we have to get a result by day3. That is plenty of time. This should be doable.
So scum is forced to lay really low, if they ever want to stand a chance.
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On May 16 2011 12:16 Mataza wrote:Small math problem. + Show Spoiler +12 day1 ly nk 10 day2 ly nk 8 day 3 ly nk 6 day4 Since *not* lynching is also *not* an option, we have to get a result by day3. That is plenty of time. This should be doable. So scum is forced to lay really low, if they ever want to stand a chance.
I don't understand the abbreviations in that math problem. What do you mean?
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I'm sorry Mataza, but I am quite new to this game. What do you mean setup 4 is vanilla (as there is a detective in setup 4?) and is cop the same as doc?
Anyway I agree that we should at least for the time being consider this to be 3 goons v 6 townies as we have absolutely nothing to base any real decisions off.
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My fault there is no setup 4. What I meant was the setup 2 maf 1 roleblock 9 town. Somehow I remember it as the 4th setup. Maybe I tried to think of it last because no blue roles is the very hardest to play. Btw we are 12, not 9. Cop is detective and doc is doctor, obviously.....
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lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies.
I think I overestimated my town
Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach.
Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions.
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Wait wait wait, there are no coaches, please don't PM those three lol, it's all flavor text
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The I totally misinterpreted flavor text. Why even put it there with names in caps and colored? My bad.
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@Mataza it's tradition here on TL Mafia to do so. GL in the game.
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It's entirely possible that AT LEAST one mafia guy WON'T understand how the game works, but according to that math, that would make at least THREE townies that DON'T understand how the game works.
I don't think we should try and cast a scummy light on people trying to learn to play the game. It's a NEWBIE game after all.
That being said, I DO think we should try and actively analyze posts and make the best selection for our lynch as I've NEVER condoned random lynching.
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3. No conditional voting.
Does this mean we cannot ##unvote and change our minds?
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On May 16 2011 14:23 VisceraEyes wrote: 3. No conditional voting.
Does this mean we cannot ##unvote and change our minds?
It means you can't say I will place my vote on whoever has the majority between two people and just leave. You need to state who you are voting for.
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@VisceraEyes, in addition to the fact that there is no way of knowing from which side players who do not understand the game are, the mafia has the added benefit of being able to discuss the game between themselves in private, so I'd say there's actually less of a chance the mafia misunderstands any rules.
That being said, while the 25% odds of lynching a mafia on the first day may seem steep, there are tons of things that we can do to increase our odds. The first part is that we need to get everyone to step up and talk. The more people talk, the more chance someone makes a mistake that can be taken advantage of.
And as Mataza pointed out, no matter the setup, we do have available more than one mis-lynches, So even if we do stake a townie this first day, we aren't in any trouble really. And more importantly, even if the person that dies is green, then we at least already have very valuable information on the people that wanted him dead.
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While the clarification was helpful and duly noted, you didn't actually answer my question. Can I ##unvote and vote for someone else if I've already cast a vote in-thread?
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I agree. Everyone should make a short little post, so we can immmediately get some background info on each person. If we get lucky, we may catch a Mafia (who knows :D)
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@VisceraEyes yes, you are. You can change your vote as many times as you like.
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You guys are reading my mind. Talking will be key here. I'm going to go ahead and give you guys a general overview of how I'll be approaching this game.
First of all, it's a GAME. I'll be playing. You'll be playing. We'll be playing together. These are good, happy things. If I FoS (Finger of Suspicion) you, please don't get offended. I'm sure people will be pointing a finger or two at me, and that's just fine. As I have nothing to hide, I'll generally react with interest and intrigue more than anger and concern. I ask that out of courtesy, you guys do the same.
I'll analyze EVERY SINGLE post you make, and I please urge you to do the same to me. We've got to find killers here, people! They're not gonna find themselves.
Also, just so everyone's aware, I'll be most active in the later evening and will be virtually invisible from early-morning to early-evening. I'm not lurking during those times, I'm genuinely not close to a computer.
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On May 16 2011 12:52 Mataza wrote:lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions.
After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
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On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:52 Mataza wrote:lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA.
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Nice assumptions.
So you say I WIFOM. Wifom is a gamble and you don´t win by gambling. (Wifom stands "wine in front of me". Look it up)
I mathamatized to know how much time we have to our first scum. 3 days is a lot. I say that because on Epicmafia, were I played sometimes, there were setups with day 1 lylo. And for some reason mafia only had 50% win on that setup. Don´t know why, and I completely lost faith in the players there.
Could we maybe start with the blaming once everyone has at least posted once or twice?
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This is starting out well - looking forward to find and lynch the scum of this town!
Im new to this game so I just want to stand up and say hello !
as for the suspicion above, hope Mataza can explain himself - its kind of dangerous to be to triggerhappy as well?
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@steff
Welcome to town! While I have reservations about Mataza myself, calling him trigger-happy is possibly unfair. We have to lynch someone today regardless, that's just a rule. It's our job to make sure it's someone nice and scummy.
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@VisceraEyes yeah, sorry, my bad english right there - he was not the one i was calling triggerhappy - was rather pointing out that it would be kinda stupid to accuse someone after one single post - but as i see he pointed that out himself at the same time i posted!
hope more people will show face before end of day! - more arguments = better arguments = more fun game!
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United States22154 Posts
On May 16 2011 14:38 VisceraEyes wrote: While the clarification was helpful and duly noted, you didn't actually answer my question. Can I ##unvote and vote for someone else if I've already cast a vote in-thread? Yes, you can ##unvote and recast your vote, if you are feeling particularly nice you can actually put it in the format of ##Unvote: PlayerName, where player name is the name of the player you had voted for earlier ^_^
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hio everyone, obligatory 1st post here.
@current discussion:
Mataza seems to be more experienced than the average newcomers here so i don't suspect him just because he made the first posts with some actual content today.. i rather find it interesting that VisceraEyes is jumping to conclusions / trying to badmouth someone that quick. :p
im really curious how were gonna settle for our 1st lynch given that no special roles are in the game!
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@nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions.
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On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions.
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I kinda have to agree with Mataza, lets stop the blaming until everybody has posted once or twice. People should instead maybe just say how they're going to try to play out this first day. According to Mataza's math we need to kill a scum in the first 3 days which is a lot of time to get to know each other and I will probably be voting for those I am most unsure of, which will be those with least real content in their posts.
But really, I don't think that people should blame anybody too much after the first 10 posts 'cause there's no real basis for it.
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So yeah, we really got nothing to work with at the moment. VisceraEyes and GiygaS are kinda pointing fingers at Mataza, which I don't really mind at all. I'm sure Mataza will have no trouble whipping up a solid defense, and at least it's causing people to talk.
I'm more worried about the quiet people, it's only been 13 hours or so, but we're still missing half the town in the action.
If people don't post people don't make mistakes. So please type in a few sentences so we know you're alive:
Karshe Hiro Protagonist Skrammen DeepBlu2 Wunder
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Good morning all.
First post here, I have caught up with the thread.
As others have said, there's no real reason to suspect Mataza yet. The majority of us are fairly new to the game, and Mataza making the first "quality" post shouldn't be considered suspicious. The only thing to watch for is scum posting general tips/math to gain town cred while not actually helping our hunt. And yes, I realize I could qualify under that last statement. =P
Looking forward to scum hunting with you all. Hopefully we'll get lots of posts today and get to know everyone.
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Welcome Karshe, good morning everyone.
I shall refrain from unduly assigning suspicion to anyone until we've heard from most everyone. For the record, I don't condone policy lynching inactives...but if someone is VERY inactive in posting, but still makes it in for their one post per cycle and voting, inactivity starts to appear scummy to me.
I hope no one is offended by my initial analysis, I'm just trying to spark up conversation. More conversation = more stuff to read over and over. I like to read stuff over and over. :D
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Inactive people are a huge problem though. They most likely aren't Mafia, and more than likely just bored townies. The problem is that they provide noise for the mafia to hide in. If there are 4-6 people that rarely post and make little contribution, one of them is bound to be mafia, even two.
Again, preferably I don't want to lynch an inactive, because it's almost guaranteed they aren't mafia. But if there are still inactive people this time tomorrow and we've got nothing else to go on, I will seriously consider casting a vote their way, if nothing else just to get them talking.
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Inactives are a mixed bag for me. I agree that lynching them isn't the wisest choice because there's a low chance they are mafia... but inactives also irritate me to no end. I understand that RL > TL and things come up, but why join the game if you're not going to play? It just ruins the spirit of the game for me and I have low tolerence/patience for inactives.
That said, hopefully we're discussing this for no reason and we'll hear from everyone today.
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good morning team. first timer here.
I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me!
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dont forget we have an 48hour day cycle, so there is still plenty of time for everybody to post. i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p
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On May 17 2011 02:02 hiro protagonist wrote:good morning team. first timer here. I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me! What do you think of the whole inactive debate? I think first day we should give them a break, but as they are more and more inactive we may want to infer scummyness. Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P
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On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions.
I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!"
I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.)
About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many.
But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle.
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On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: dont forget we have an 48hour day cycle, so there is still plenty of time for everybody to post. i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p
I don't quite understand that logic...
Why would it take effort to create a first post? Even if you say something completely retarded it's fine as long as you have nothing to hide. Barring revealing a blue power role, anything you say in your first post will just be that... a simple first post.
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Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves...
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@ palmar I think he takes his posts very serious and deduces from himself to others. Kind of a nonquestion.
While we are at nonsense, let´s talk about noncontent posts.
On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). Or does he?
I could understand that he is doing the same as me, trying to not be the sole active player, which means guaranteed death night 1. But is he really that active?
Here all his posts of day 1 in order + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 11:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, how should we go about doing this? A little birdie told me that at the end of the day, someone's gotta die. Who's it gonna be and why? On May 16 2011 14:16 VisceraEyes wrote: It's entirely possible that AT LEAST one mafia guy WON'T understand how the game works, but according to that math, that would make at least THREE townies that DON'T understand how the game works.
I don't think we should try and cast a scummy light on people trying to learn to play the game. It's a NEWBIE game after all.
That being said, I DO think we should try and actively analyze posts and make the best selection for our lynch as I've NEVER condoned random lynching. On May 16 2011 15:06 VisceraEyes wrote: You guys are reading my mind. Talking will be key here. I'm going to go ahead and give you guys a general overview of how I'll be approaching this game.
First of all, it's a GAME. I'll be playing. You'll be playing. We'll be playing together. These are good, happy things. If I FoS (Finger of Suspicion) you, please don't get offended. I'm sure people will be pointing a finger or two at me, and that's just fine. As I have nothing to hide, I'll generally react with interest and intrigue more than anger and concern. I ask that out of courtesy, you guys do the same.
I'll analyze EVERY SINGLE post you make, and I please urge you to do the same to me. We've got to find killers here, people! They're not gonna find themselves.
Also, just so everyone's aware, I'll be most active in the later evening and will be virtually invisible from early-morning to early-evening. I'm not lurking during those times, I'm genuinely not close to a computer. On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:52 Mataza wrote:lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? On May 16 2011 17:05 VisceraEyes wrote:@steff Welcome to town! While I have reservations about Mataza myself, calling him trigger-happy is possibly unfair. We have to lynch someone today regardless, that's just a rule. It's our job to make sure it's someone nice and scummy. On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. On May 17 2011 01:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Welcome Karshe, good morning everyone.
I shall refrain from unduly assigning suspicion to anyone until we've heard from most everyone. For the record, I don't condone policy lynching inactives...but if someone is VERY inactive in posting, but still makes it in for their one post per cycle and voting, inactivity starts to appear scummy to me.
I hope no one is offended by my initial analysis, I'm just trying to spark up conversation. More conversation = more stuff to read over and over. I like to read stuff over and over. :D Especially 2 things: Analysis+ Show Spoiler +That being said, I DO think we should try and actively analyze posts and make the best selection for our lynch as I've NEVER condoned random lynching. I'll analyze EVERY SINGLE post you make, and I please urge you to do the same to me. We've got to find killers here, people! They're not gonna find themselves. I hope no one is offended by my initial analysis, I'm just trying to spark up conversation. More conversation = more stuff to read over and over. I like to read stuff over and over. :D Questions+ Show Spoiler + Okay, how should we go about doing this? A little birdie told me that at the end of the day, someone's gotta die. Who's it gonna be and why?
Show nested quote +Mataza wrote:lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions.
He talks about questions and analysis but so far there is none of both. But he does talk about them. Also he says hello a lot. He greeted us all with a little rhyme. His last 3 posts where @nard, @steff and Welcome Karshe.
It just struck me as very odd to claim doing stuff you don´t get around to do. Care to explain?
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On May 17 2011 02:49 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote:On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!" I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.) About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many. But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle.
I want you to respond to what I've said. I'll quote everything we've "asked you" right now:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing.
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I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm.
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@Mataza
I've been keeping a written log of my thoughts on anyone who's posted anything of substance so far. Because of posts like yours and others concerned about undue suspicion, I've refrained from asking the questions I have. They're mostly questions of context and clarity, but I've kept them to myself as to not 'cause anyone to have any suspicion on them until we've heard from everyone'. If by doing only what I'm being asked to do makes me scummy, then by all means - continue this line of reasoning and see where it leads you. I understand you're suspecting me because I'm suspecting you (OMGUS) but that's all right. As I've said before, I have nothing to hide and you're entitled to your opinion.
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I'm also stating that for the record, I'm against losing a SINGLE green or blue to a lynch. I don't care how many days we're "safe" to lose greens before it becomes 'Mislynch and Lose', with as many active people as we have right now (who all appear to be ready to actively start sniffing some scum) we should be able to find someone red, even with as little information as we have.
I'm going to go ahead and FoS: Mataza simply for the sake of argument and discussion. I've already given VERY little of why I think he's slightly scummy, and I have more at home, but I'd like to see some active discussion about Mataza as I don't appear to be the only one with doubt at this point.
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Right now everyone suspects me.
That is one kind of circular logic often used. If I don´t defend myself, it´s because I can´t think of arguments because I know I am guilty. If I do defend myself, it´s because I need to defend myself because I am guilty.
Personally I just wanted to see how you would react. Right now I have the most material on you, just like everyone else has mostly material on me. Also OMGUS is kind of a weak argument. Everyone who talked (besides maybe 2 guys who have 1 post so far) suspects me.
We should begin discussing lynches, since the first day is half over. Right now the suspects are mainly me and myself because I wondered how many mislynches we have. That´s not really a good start, since for example if I get lynched and you get nightkilled, only gigays and palmar are left talking fo town. Mafia would keep talking to themselves via PMs and townchat dies.
And one scummy question by me: Gigays seems to defend you without a second thought. I wonder how he is so sure you´re right.
I would love to talk about people who don´t suspect me, but they don´t *talk* at all.
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Ah yeah, by the way I answered the "various" questions: + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing.
First I wanted to know how many mislynches we have. Second you can´t answer to wifom. If I say mafia must do x and I would be suspect if I do x and I would be suspect if I don´t do x because I said that mafia do x. If you want to bet your first lynch on wifom, go ahead.
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FoS duly noted. Once there is anything substantial against me I can and will answer.
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I wouldn't say "everyone" suspects you. In fact, I'm the only person who's officially declared suspicion as yet. And just for clarification, I FoS you, but I'm not quite ready to say I think you're maf or I'd just vote for you. I'm definitely interested in how you answer to my suspicions and any that anyone else might have, but I'm not quite convinced that you're dirty yet. I understand the defensive response and obviously won't let it skew my view just yet.
AS I'm sure you're already aware and eager to point out, my last few posts have contained very little in the way of content aside from my FoS. I have no defense for this aside from my assurance that it's because my notes are at home on my computer...a hindrance I'm working to resolve as we speak. I could obviously paraphrase, having the material to read here...but I've already laid it out and would prefer to wait on my notes.
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I checked again and you´re right, only you and gigays suspect me. I just assumed because my name got used more than the letter "z" up til now.
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I assume that comment was designed to make me want to distance myself from GiygaS (assuming I'm Scum). As GiygaS has given about as much reason to suspect you as I have (which isn't much to this point), I can't speak to his suspicions. But for my part, if he has something to add, well, that's what the FoS was for.
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Hey guys, just ogt home form school from my 1 hour trip. :/
I am now Gigays, okay. Also, Mataza, when did I defend VisceraEyes. I only have asked you to answer our questions, that's it. If there was ever an accusation, I would never go, but Viscera didn't do that, etc. To clarify something: Why say something if you think it would just WISOM? Is it to confuse all of us?
Anyway, I kind of FoS you, as you've really been the only one anyone can :/ Seriously people, TALK!
P.S. To anyone who actually knows what GiygaS is: NESSNESSNESSNESSNESS
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@Mataza I kinda get what GiygaS is saying, he's wondering why you went out of your way to point out something 'mafia is sure to do' knowing that you're also going out of your way (admittedly) to appear to do the opposite. You're just BEGGING someone to cry 'WIFOM' so you can say 'WIFOM, I don't fly that way my friend.' I didn't really catch that the first time, but it is awfully peculiar.
Also, you seem to now be awfully set on painting me red when there are some inactives you've yet to accost for being 'not helpful to town' and 'useless'...why not wait until we've heard from everyone as you've been encouraging everyone else to do?
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Aside from one small analysis post I never accused you of being red.
I was requested to answer the "various questions". I might as well cite myself, since I answered them the first time. Especially since the questions are "Why are you wondering how the game will work out" and "You mentioned a possible behaviour of mafia, why don´t you behave like that yourself?" Yes I said the latter question is wifom. And wifom has never a definite answer.+ Show Spoiler +If I am mafia, I would not behave like a mafia. But since you expect me to not behave like a mafia, I will behave like a mafia. But you can predict that I know you expect me to not behave like mafia I will behave like mafia.
Wifom is circle logic. You might as well flip a coin to determine if I am mafia.
I never said I really think you are mafia, I just wanted you to react to my accusations. Your reaction is to push suspicion on me even farther while postponing why you think that.
Once again, slowly, so you catch on my train of logic: Wifom is baaad. Behavioural analysis is gooood. Y U NO ANALYZE?
Also, I am sorry for misspelling gigas with y. I don´t know the meaning behind it and it looks hard to pronounce the way it is written.
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Did I mention that I said Wifom first? You accuse me of waiting for someone to say wifom so I can wifom back. I said screw wifom let´s do something that works. You are distorting the facts here.
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You said the anagram 'WIFOM' first, but you were putting the word in GiygaS mouth when you said it...claiming that it was what HE meant to say, when you're really the only one in here right now using that term.
It's moot anyway because you later stated that you were 'only raising a possibility of how mafia might act' instead of what it actually was, an insistence that they would, in fact, lay low to survive...which in my experience is NEVER EVER the case.
So could we please drop the 'WIFOM' argument because I'm sick of seeing that anagram and remembering a wonderful scene to a mediocre movie.
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Sup guys
Right now I am mainly suspecting Mataza, mainly because of something that Mataza said early on:
On May 16 2011 12:52 Mataza wrote:I think I overestimated my town
Now this statement could very well be benign but it is doing two things: degrading the town to diminish people's confidence in their ability to play this game (overestimate) making them more susceptible to get influenced by someone (himself) and setting himself up as a "leader" of the town (my town). I do not know why Mataza is trying to set himself up as a leader of the town but there are two scenarios:
1. He's a scum: He wants to control people and mislead them to vote for innocent people and keep the mafia save.
2. He's a townie: He wants to control people and lead to to vote for guilty scum and keep the town save.
Either way he is trying to be a "leader" of the town and this in itself is bad. A town should never have a leader and should instead have people thinking very independently forming their own opinion, this should happen through discussion and activity of course. Mataza is very savvy and probably knows that having a leader is not good for a town, so why is he trying to set himself up to be one? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
Now stuff that might talk against this:
First: Mataza is actually not pointing fingers at anybody, I think we should be very careful if he ever decides to "lead" "his town" to vote for someone. Second (as pointed out by Mataza himself): If he is trying to lead this town as a scum would lead it we would quickly find out (we would lynch innocent people). And since we can afford losing people, trading a townie (guy Mataza would want to lynch) for a scum (Mataza) is really a good deal for the town. Maybe he is setting himself and the mafia up for mid/late game? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
Other than that I think that all the debate around Mataza is hurting the town (we are not talking about someone else). So to stop this I am going to talk about someone else:
VisceraEyes and GiygaS
It is very hard for me to argue against VisceraEyes and GiygaS because I am also suspicious of Mataza.
This is very hard because, while these two guys have been on Mataza's back the whole time they claim that it has been for the sake of activity. This has worked alright since these three guys are arguably the most contributing players in this game right now so their claimed plans have worked out well. But why are they not directing any of this activity against each other? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
This gets even harder to analyze because there are two of them and thus several scenarios: Two townies being suspicious of someone? Two scums targetting an innocent townie? Or maybe the hardest scenario to deal with, one of each. I'm not going to go in depth with these scenarios, I will only present my initial conclusion: If they are scum they are not thinking long term, if they are mixed they will turn on each other, if they are townies ... Well as I said, I am also suspicious of Mataza
A final note on nard (something that Mataza cleverly pointed out too, removing some of my suspicions of him):
On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p
While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
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Prplhz, welcome to the discussion my guy. This is arguably one of the most productive posts yet. :D
I'll speak soon to your point about me, but for the time being, thanks for speaking up at all. As Mataza so astutely observed, as one of the most active thus far in the thread (in regard to post number, I'm sure a lot of what I've posted is viewed as fluff) I'm absolutely one of the strongest candidates for a murderation tomorrow night. Active scum-hunters, honestly, could be viewed as stronger targets than even blue roles at this point when we don't have any idea if there even ARE blue roles, let alone who occupies them.
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I would like to add to your post prp.
I said "I overestimated my town" because I had to explain what nk and ly stand for, that cop doesn´t stand for doctor and that this game is 9 town vs 3 mafia, not 6 vs 3.
That a single leader is bad for town is obvious. People who gather under 1 leader are following, not playing. That is not the fault of the leader, but the fault of the town, since they obey for no good reason. Leading in itself is what everyone should aim for.
For the sake of having material, I request Palmar, Hiro Protagonist, Deepblue, Steff, Karshe and Nard to mouth their opinion on whether Mataza, Viscera eyes or Giygas might be mafia. Don´t group Viscera and giygas together even if they have the same opinion. Giygas bandwagoned, but he might simply be new to mafia. + Show Spoiler +Right now I think Wunder and Skrammen will be modkilled. If they are not modkilled, then they are highly suspicious for not saying anything.
There is nothing to lose so take a stand. Use your own brain though, the person you copy you opinion from might be mafia. Even me.
I will assume to be on trial, together with Viscera and Gig. I will henceforth only post if you specifically ask @Mataza, until everyone else has voiced an opinion. I would like you Viscera and Gig to do so, too.
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nice to see a 2nd poster with a lot of content besides mataza - thanks prplhz
onto your note:
While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
i realized when i made that post that it in itself is suspicious as well and thats kinda supporting the argument i posted - everything you post except a trivial "hello" might be endangering your life and i guess most if not all townies want not only the town to win, but also to survive until the end.
as requested here are my opinions on the 3 most active posters. this is no deep analysis just some gut feelings after having read the last 2 thread pages. i might post a reasoning with quotes and all that jazz in a few hours when i have a break.
Mataza - before prplhz posted his argument about him trying to set up a leadership he was pretty unsuspicious to me. currently undeciced, still tending to townie though. Viscera - so far the most suspicious. locking in on only Mataza, a lot of posts with lacking content. Giygas - less suspicious then Viscera. kind of in an odd place to make a decision as his posts are way less agressive / suspicious than viscera, but they keep appearing as a double tag team which makes it harder to form a seperate opinion on both.
hoping for the 2 inactives to show up soon :>
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Okay, as promised, here are my notes from the first couple of pages (not much has happened, but enough to where some of it might be dated...bear with me)
Mataza: + Show Spoiler +Had initial scummy feeling, but maybe he's just aggressively trying to scum-hunt. Please note the following excerpt. At first i thought I would claim cop openly, but then I remembered that I just once saw a game where that ever worked. And boy how often it does not work. This means one of two things. A) He's a cop and accidentally outed himself in his very first line in the GAME (I'm inclined to disbelieve this based on posts since) B) He's admitting that no matter what role he was given, regardless of alignment, he had toyed with the idea of claiming cop from the very beginning. This isn't so much an indication of guilt as it is a reason his posts make my scum-sense tingle...I mean, unless he's cop I don't know a good way to read that first line...and if he IS a cop, well, that's not much better is it? Also, this guy has done the math on how many people need to die before mafia wins...watch carefully. Appears to be antagonizing people trying to learn the game... Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. Further, he appears to be hanging inactives out to dry d1...which seems a little scummy to me considering the low chance of actually hitting a maf...especially if Mata IS red, as he'll know if/which inactives are red if any. Palmar: + Show Spoiler +Big post about how lynching greens is okay until d3...much like Mataza...but with an added twist. And as Mataza pointed out, no matter the setup, we do have available more than one mis-lynches, so even if we do stake a townie this first day, we aren't in any trouble really. And more importantly, even if the person that dies is green, then we at least already have very valuable information on the people that wanted him dead. I had less of a problem with what he said (as the logic is relatively sound) but more HOW he said it. Even if we stake a townie we aren't in trouble really. EVEN IF the person that dies is green. It seems to me that a reassuring soul would say 'Even if the person that dies is blue' which would be the worse case in this example. Weak read, but worth mentioning imho
GiygaS: + Show Spoiler +Feels green except for how quickly he jumped on Mata after I even hinted at a reddish hue. This immediately AFTER a very friendly post encouraging people to post. Left me thinking 'Why, so you could immediately CAPSLOCKMAFIA them like Mata? Watch carefully.
Mataza: + Show Spoiler + Okay, now I'm suspicious. After explaining why I PERSONALLY would remain calm if doubt was cast my direction, Mataza immediately gets defensive and after sprinkling blame on others for their "useless" posts that are "anti-town", requests that we hold off on blaming until after we hear from people. Imagine that. Oh, but at least that doesn't stop him from immediately casting my posts into doubt...almost as soon as he makes said request. I sense a FoS coming that I won't be able to contain.
There are my notes. Some of it has been resolved, some of it has not. I don't so much suspect Palmar anymore as his tone seemed much more townie in his posts since. And while I don't like how QUICKLY GiygaS jumped on Mata, his reasoning is at least reasonable (imo) and as such has started to look more green to me. Everyone else' posts just don't scream RED the way Mataza's do. But as I've stated before, I'd vote if I felt sure enough. I'm not.
Discuss.
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I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive.
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@nard
Hopefully my post sheds some light on why it appears that I'm focusing (tunneling?) Mataza. I loathe to call it tunneling though as there isn't much else going on for me to even COMMENT on other than our little dialogue back and forth...but it's true, my only suspicion so far is Mataza. I'm interested to know what is suspicious about my posts ASIDE from my lack of content. Lack of content isn't scummy itself. It has to be accompanied by other outside factors (attempting to derail conversations, intent to confuse fencers to name a couple).
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Ok, here are my thoughts so far,
the first two people I gonna talk about are the ones i have the most read on/talked the most o far:
VisceraEyes: He was the most active in the first few pages, with most of his post wanting simply for all active players to say hi. Also mentioning not to take suspicions of one another as a bad thing. I can agree with this line of logic, as it will foster a more friendly town, and get in on the scum hunting. His FoS of Mataza looks more like a call for discussion then an actual accusation. my worry is that he is almost TOO town, and is a likely prime hit for Mafia, unless of course he IS Mafia.
Mataza: considered the most suspicious as of right now, and with good reasoning. His first post was one of feinting a cop role. and Has been very Defensive initially when VisceraEye ask a question. Then he points the finger right back at VisceraEyes. after that he claims that he "just wanted to see how you would react". However he made a good post about how he wants to talk about what everyone else thinks, and his post are in the vein of scumhunting (when his not busy defending himself). not sure what to think of him tbh.
Next up GiygaS, nord, Palmar,:
These 3 have the most posts with the least amount of Analysis. most likely town wanting to hang low or wait and see before going into to much discussion. GiygaS has done the most in getting discussion going, expesialy around what VisceraEye and Mataza have been saying. not alot to go on.
prplhz: quite at first but then a solid post with good analysis.
Deepblue, Steff, Karshe: still need to here more from them. deepblue has gotten in pretty late with just a one liner. gonna watch to see if he is gonna just slide under the modkill, as there are still some inactives, and is laying low(as in acting scummy)
thats it for now.
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Finally, more then 3 people talking! Welcome to the game prp and nard, nice to see some europeans now.
Inactives: 2 Guys we haven't seen, may get modkilled. Can't make an opinion on them yet.
Karshe: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't really posted anything good at all. Might get modkilled, I don't know about him.
stefftastiq: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't posted much but a brief "hello". Mentionned something about people being trigger-happy. I'm a tad suspicious as he should have posted again by now.
Deepblu2 + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm. On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. Deepblu just posted so I haven't really had a chance to analyse his most recent post, but I'll give it a shot. His first post detailed how he's indeed "active" and he's formulating an opinion. Initially a bit scummy, if he hadn't posted anything, but he has now, so that lowers a bit of his suspicion. Based on his recent entry, he's leaning towards Mataza, based on his defensive stance. Overall, hasen't really produced much content, so I can't really say much about him.
More active people:
Mataza + Show Spoiler +Now, this guy seems a bit scummy to me, PROBABLY the most so far. The reasons have been brought up already: - He's implying he wants to become A leader of the town (maybe so he can control people? I don't know) - He is very defensive about his spot, very resilient to abandon anything. I don't know if this means he's mafia, but a person who goes out his way to say he's innocent seems a bit guilty :/ - Mentioned how many days Mafia has to stay alive. Good just be some helpful math. - HOWEVER after all this, he said he puts himself officially on trial. And he will only answer questions specifically asked at him. This implies he knows he has done wrong and wants to get a bit out of the spotlight. This is most likely because he's tired of constantly defending himself, but it could also be that he's Mafia and wants to sink back in to the shadows. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Also, he's got my name wrong twice now (it's not gigays, or gigas, it's giygas )
VisceraEyes: + Show Spoiler + Got into Mataza as soon as the game begun, might just because he wants activity. The fact he HAS been avoiding questions to attack Mataza some more, which may imply he's trying to avoid them so that he doesn't have any answers. Don't know what I think of him, a bit suspicious.
prplhz (anyone got tricks for this guy's name? ) + Show Spoiler + Seems very rational to me. Got some more discussion other then the back and forth between me, Mataza and VisceraEyes. Seems very pro-town to me, but once again, your best friends can sometimes be your worst enemies. I'm not very suspicious of him.
nard + Show Spoiler +Kind of interesting. This guy has posted three times. Once to remind us all that it's too early to start making conclusions about Mataza, one that reminds us all that we have 48 hours before we have to make a decision and to take some time, and finally one that answers some suspicions on his first post, and saying he's not too suspicious of Mataza, and suspicous of me and Viscera (more Viscera). I don't know what this means, but IF we find out that Mataza is indeed a Mafia, I believe this guy is probably a cohort based on his behind-the-scenes support for the guy. I'm a bit suspicious of him.
Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Has mostly mentioned inactives and getting some debate going on that topic. He may just be curious. That said, he was the first one to mention and notice Nard's post on being saying it was difficult to post the first time. Hasen't really added a lot of real content, but I believe he's pro-town. Only the minutest amount of suspicion.
hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... That's his only post. Unfortunately, we don't get any background info on what country he lives in, so we can't analyse when he'll post. Unfortunate :/ The fact that he did add SOMETHING (scum have probably posted) shows he MIGHT be pro-town in his behavior. Don't know what to think on him due to inactivity. EDIT: Okay, he just posted another one that added a bit more content, so I moved him down here. Basically listing his suspicions. Seem's a bit more mafia now to be honest based on his bandwagonning to everyone else, but he may just agree with some people.
EDIT: Yes, this is my first time EVER playing mafia, so this is a new experience for me. i'm gonna be interested to see if anything else develops.
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On May 17 2011 12:33 Varpulis wrote: NO EDITING Even if I note EDIT? And the post mentionned editing when it was posting. Sorry, it's already been done D:
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Editing is not allowed for any reason. If you have more to say or want to correct a mistake, post again with the statement EBWOP(Edit By Way Of Posting).
example: I'm pretty sure that GMarshal is mafia. He chaoser been scummy together
EBWOP: He and chaoser have been scummy together.
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EBWOP: the reason for this is that editing allows players to alter the information that the rest of the town can use to analyze you.
For example, Imagine that I'm one of the mafia, and I post a scumlist, then check through the thread again and see that nobody else thinks that Node is scum, If i were allowed to edit, I could delete Node from my scumlist and fit in better with the town, and nobody will be able to point out later that I was suspicious of Node.
Do you understand why we don't allow editing?
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On May 17 2011 12:44 Varpulis wrote: EBWOP: the reason for this is that editing allows players to alter the information that the rest of the town can use to analyze you.
For example, Imagine that I'm one of the mafia, and I post a scumlist, then check through the thread again and see that nobody else thinks that Node is scum, If i were allowed to edit, I could delete Node from my scumlist and fit in better with the town, and nobody will be able to point out later that I was suspicious of Node.
Do you understand why we don't allow editing? Yeah, sorry. What can I do now though? Won't do it again BTW.
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On May 17 2011 12:50 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 12:44 Varpulis wrote: EBWOP: the reason for this is that editing allows players to alter the information that the rest of the town can use to analyze you.
For example, Imagine that I'm one of the mafia, and I post a scumlist, then check through the thread again and see that nobody else thinks that Node is scum, If i were allowed to edit, I could delete Node from my scumlist and fit in better with the town, and nobody will be able to point out later that I was suspicious of Node.
Do you understand why we don't allow editing? Yeah, sorry. What can I do now though? Won't do it again BTW. Just don't do it again, life goes on. You weren't trying to abuse the tool, so it's all ok as long as you've learned your lesson.
Up to the hosts though, I guess.
I'm going to stop disrupting your guy's game now.
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I am most definitely not getting mod killed, thank you. Just had a busy monday, and when I was on earlier, there weren't too many quality posts yet.
I've got caught up, and here are my thoughts.
I am most suspicious of Mataza right now. I wouldn't go as far to vote him, yet, but I have my reservations.
Since this is openly a noobie game, this was my first thought going into the game:
On May 17 2011 00:56 Karshe wrote: The only thing to watch for is scum posting general tips/math to gain town cred while not actually helping our hunt. And yes, I realize I could qualify under that last statement. =P
and this was one of Mataza's first posts:
On May 16 2011 12:16 Mataza wrote: Small math problem. 12 day1 ly nk 10 day2 ly nk 8 day 3 ly nk 6 day4 So scum is forced to lay really low, if they ever want to stand a chance.
To newer players to the game--myself somewhat included--this sounds like a foreign language and some may think, "Man, he knows what he's talking about... I better listen to what this guy has to say." I propose that was Mataza's intention for posting the math so early on.
On May 17 2011 02:49 Mataza wrote: I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!"
I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.)
About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many.
But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle.
One of Mataza's next longer posts, which can be summarized to rephrasing things that have already been said I would argue that even for a noobie game, a lot of this is stating common sense. Yes, we know you could be mafia. That's how the game works. I feel this is another example of gaining town cred while not actually contributing.
It looks as though my main argument was also noticed by Giygas (to give credit where credit is due):
On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA.
I believe that Mataza attempted to put an early notion into newer players heads that mafia will attempt to lay as low as possible, while he himself is a mafia and one of the most active posters.
My initial gut feeling thus far is that Giygas is town. I feel as though he has done a great job at generating discussion without having done anything I can point out as shady.
I haven't made a decision on VisceraEyes yet, for now he is an active poster and I would personally rather lynch an inactive compared to a helpful/active poster on Day 1, if that's what it comes down to.
Sorry to wrap this up short but I haven't eaten dinner yet. I will check in before bed for updates.
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@Mataza Lots of discussion now - you getting all this?
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Lol Karshe. Giygass having done a great job of all people?
I do state the obvious since this is a newbie game. And since the very beginning I had the feeling that some people do not know how this really works. I also "defend" myself as people are requesting answers for questions that they don´t write. I especially like "various questions". Giygass requests answers for nonsensical questions. Viscera took what I said and distorted it. His point on me provoking wifom is wrong. I urge you to reread that.
I will make my cases later in the day. It´s 8 in the morning over here, gotta get busy.
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Okay, given the current state of the town, with so little to go on and so much mystery behind the remaining inactive players, I'd like to officially retract my FoS: Mataza.
I hope this doesn't read as backpedaling, but upon further analysis, I don't have enough faith in my read to really go any further with it. In spite of my misgivings, most everything he's said HAS appeared to be pro-town, except from when he was defending himself from me.
I would like clarification of your first post though Mataza. What did you mean by 'I thought about claiming cop'...do you mean you thought about it before you knew your role? You thought about it after you recieved your role? I understand that it's quite a ways back (first post from you), but it would really ease my mind if you could clarify that one statement. On everything else I'll lay off.
@stefftastic I'd really like to hear more from you as you have precious few posts and you're one of the remaining people who has yet to really give an opinion on anything.
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On May 17 2011 14:58 Mataza wrote: Lol Karshe. Giygass having done a great job of all people?
I do state the obvious since this is a newbie game. And since the very beginning I had the feeling that some people do not know how this really works. I also "defend" myself as people are requesting answers for questions that they don´t write. I especially like "various questions". Giygass requests answers for nonsensical questions. Viscera took what I said and distorted it. His point on me provoking wifom is wrong. I urge you to reread that.
I will make my cases later in the day. It´s 8 in the morning over here, gotta get busy.
Are you writing my name wrong on purpose. Seriously. On my demanding answers to nonsensical questions, how is asking you: + Show Spoiler +- On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
To which you respond "Oh, I wanted to know how many times we can fail." + Show Spoiler +- What is your thoughts on this sentence: On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. To which you responded with a link to this thing call WIFOM. And all I could think about at this point in time is then; "Why did you say that in the first place"
On the point of you bashing Karshe, he never said I was doing a great job, of say generating content. He said I was doing a great job of generating discussion. My intent throughout that afternoon.I even said: + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote: Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P
Finally, I re-read Viscera's point on me, where he says: + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Feels green except for how quickly he jumped on Mata after I even hinted at a reddish hue. This immediately AFTER a very friendly post encouraging people to post. Left me thinking 'Why, so you could immediately CAPSLOCKMAFIA them like Mata? Watch carefully.
Actually, I didn't call him the mafia in all caps. this is actually what I said: + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA.
Now notice here that I said "Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA". By this, I meant that I was imagining people screaming at each other: "HE LIED LOW HE IS THE MAFIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" etc etc. When I realized that these words, especially the capital letters, were indeed misunderstood, i made a brief apology. So when if ever, did I CAPSLOCKMAFIA Mata?
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@Giygas
By CAPSLOCKMAFIA I was refering to how you appeared to call Mata Mafia at the end of that post, doing so in all caps.
Those were my notes from last night, and as I said...some of it was resolved. Actually yours was mostly what I was referencing, as you had made an effort to apologize and had made it clear you were just joking at the time of the post.
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As the crickets chirp, I'm reminded of a song....
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As this thread only seems to come to life when something drastic happens, allow me to, yet again, lead off. Le sigh.
##vote stefftastiq
This is based upon comments in pregame about looking forward to playing, and the very few posts after it speaking otherwise. I understand that I can be quoted as being against policy-lynching inactives, but in this case it reads scummy to me and I'd like someone to post...something. All that has been posted so far has been analysis of one FoS and the fluff that comes with it. I'd like to see a few more FoS's, but even that is getting to be too late for today, and I don't think enough of us are active enough to get good solid evidence one way or the other.
So here we are. Analyze this.
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Right, I've been away for a little bit and meanwhile you guys formed a bloody bandwagon against Mataza, based on some of the weakest analysis that I have seen.
Now, listen up.
Mataza is pro town. He might not be the best at portraying it, but this guy is as innocent as a newborn baby. The worst way to play on the first day is to lynch someone this outspoken and willing to analyse, in addition giving the mafia good targets to bandwagon on. Plenty of people have band-wagoned after Gig and VisEyes, any number of them could be our scum.
Luckily there is at least some improvement in voting for stefftastiq, seeing as "hi lol, i'm new" is basically a terrible first post. If you're pro-town, you're not careful. You don't give careful observations and tell people you're new. But instead you just cannon rush the fuck out of whomever you think might be red. He was also very quick to apologize, which is another sign of someone that is insecure.
But the again... he might just be that new and naive...
If you're town Steff: step up your damn game, because you're not helping us at the moment.
Here's another option: As I don't have a proper red read on anyone yet should we consider just lynching someone that will get mod-killed anyway? That is probably the safest mislynch, as even if it's wrong, that person would've died anyway...
Oh, and here is my FOS:
DeepBlu2
On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm.
Hi2u2
On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive.
Oh, would you look at that... a band-wagon I can get on without providing a single line of analysis? I can even hop on and feign being uncertain... that's a good plan for the future!
##Vote: DeepBlu2
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Alright. Well I guess I'll make another post but I'm new at this. I just wanted to make the 2nd post saying I was here because you were waiting for a post and I only had a minute to write it so sorry about that.
I am not a band wagon/front-runner sir, and I am most definately not mafia as since Day 1 I have been secretly observing people's actions. Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence.
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Sorry, I didn't include it in my last post but I know you can't edit so:
##vote GiygaS
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United States22154 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 12:30 GiygaS wrote:Finally, more then 3 people talking! Welcome to the game prp and nard, nice to see some europeans now. Inactives:2 Guys we haven't seen, may get modkilled. Can't make an opinion on them yet. Karshe: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't really posted anything good at all. Might get modkilled, I don't know about him.
stefftastiq: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't posted much but a brief "hello". Mentionned something about people being trigger-happy. I'm a tad suspicious as he should have posted again by now.
Deepblu2 + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm. On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. Deepblu just posted so I haven't really had a chance to analyse his most recent post, but I'll give it a shot. His first post detailed how he's indeed "active" and he's formulating an opinion. Initially a bit scummy, if he hadn't posted anything, but he has now, so that lowers a bit of his suspicion. Based on his recent entry, he's leaning towards Mataza, based on his defensive stance. Overall, hasen't really produced much content, so I can't really say much about him. More active people:Mataza + Show Spoiler +Now, this guy seems a bit scummy to me, PROBABLY the most so far. The reasons have been brought up already: - He's implying he wants to become A leader of the town (maybe so he can control people? I don't know) - He is very defensive about his spot, very resilient to abandon anything. I don't know if this means he's mafia, but a person who goes out his way to say he's innocent seems a bit guilty :/ - Mentioned how many days Mafia has to stay alive. Good just be some helpful math. - HOWEVER after all this, he said he puts himself officially on trial. And he will only answer questions specifically asked at him. This implies he knows he has done wrong and wants to get a bit out of the spotlight. This is most likely because he's tired of constantly defending himself, but it could also be that he's Mafia and wants to sink back in to the shadows. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Also, he's got my name wrong twice now (it's not gigays, or gigas, it's giygas ) VisceraEyes: + Show Spoiler + Got into Mataza as soon as the game begun, might just because he wants activity. The fact he HAS been avoiding questions to attack Mataza some more, which may imply he's trying to avoid them so that he doesn't have any answers. Don't know what I think of him, a bit suspicious.
prplhz (anyone got tricks for this guy's name? ) + Show Spoiler + Seems very rational to me. Got some more discussion other then the back and forth between me, Mataza and VisceraEyes. Seems very pro-town to me, but once again, your best friends can sometimes be your worst enemies. I'm not very suspicious of him.
nard + Show Spoiler +Kind of interesting. This guy has posted three times. Once to remind us all that it's too early to start making conclusions about Mataza, one that reminds us all that we have 48 hours before we have to make a decision and to take some time, and finally one that answers some suspicions on his first post, and saying he's not too suspicious of Mataza, and suspicous of me and Viscera (more Viscera). I don't know what this means, but IF we find out that Mataza is indeed a Mafia, I believe this guy is probably a cohort based on his behind-the-scenes support for the guy. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Has mostly mentioned inactives and getting some debate going on that topic. He may just be curious. That said, he was the first one to mention and notice Nard's post on being saying it was difficult to post the first time. Hasen't really added a lot of real content, but I believe he's pro-town. Only the minutest amount of suspicion.
hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... That's his only post. Unfortunately, we don't get any background info on what country he lives in, so we can't analyse when he'll post. Unfortunate :/ The fact that he did add SOMETHING (scum have probably posted) shows he MIGHT be pro-town in his behavior. Don't know what to think on him due to inactivity. EDIT: Okay, he just posted another one that added a bit more content, so I moved him down here. Basically listing his suspicions. Seem's a bit more mafia now to be honest based on his bandwagonning to everyone else, but he may just agree with some people. EDIT: Yes, this is my first time EVER playing mafia, so this is a new experience for me. i'm gonna be interested to see if anything else develops.
No editing, consider yourself warned, this is the only spot in the forums where you can get away with double and even triple posting ^_^
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Yo people
I see that people have started voting now, around 16 hours before deadline. This is not good people. Unvoting is very suspucious and there is still plenty of time for people to provide material to analyze. Of course some claim to do it for the sake of discussion but I still think that this is very bad. In addition to this I do not think that any of these votes are currently well founded, they are wild accusations at best.
I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum.
I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis.
I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this:
@Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum?
So I'm going to go ahead and do something that VisceraEyes has done several time. Point fingers at some random person for the sake of discussion. And this random person is going to be VisceraEyes himself. Some reasons (so it's not entirely random who I am pointing fingers at) for this:
1. He was the first person who point fingers at others. While he might have done this for the sake of discussion, I think that mostly scum would do this early on in the game. Townies would consider how the other person might be a townie and how unfounded accusations might harm the town, even if you made it clear that they are unfounded.
2. He is often analyzing his own actions. This is something I think you would (should) mainly do when you are scum. There is nothing to fear as a townie, only thing you have to consider is how the town can benefit the most from your actions. While we would all like to survive this game I think this is done best by being honest and only analytical of the actions of potential scum.
3. He has just something I would deem crazy to do if you were a townie. He suddenly said "this guy I have been bashing all game long, maybe he's not scum so I'm just gonna vote for someone and provide very limited rationale for this". This is not only very scum-like in my eyes, it is also harmful to the town.
@VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq?
Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control
@Palmar : Why do you think Mataza is "innocent as a newborn baby"? Gutfeeling is not an acceptable answer
Think that was it for now. I will try to vote around 4 hours before deadline. Finals notes on what I think all townies should currently be aware of:
Lurking townies make it possible for scum to play lurker style too. I think everybody should get up and post some analysis, if you are a townie this is absolutely the best thing you can do. We still missing a couple of you but this is making the game very much harder for town!
I would consider any of the prospective modkills (Skrammen, Wunder) showing up in the nick of time to cast crucial votes for the lynching VERY suspicious. Even if they decide to show up now I think they will be very harmful to town if they don't post a lot in a very short amount of time.
It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum!
Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces
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@purplehaze... you're an idiot, but you're not scum, or at least you're not an obvious scum. But your last post and suspicions towards Mataza are really forcing me to do something I did not want to do. VisEyes already quoted this but I'm apparently gonna have to do so as well.
On May 16 2011 12:11 Mataza wrote: At first i thought I would claim cop openly, but then I remembered that I just once saw a game where that ever worked. And boy how often it does not work.
For the time being, I suggest we treat this game as if it was setup 4, with 9 vanilla no cop no doc. There are times to claim cop, but there are no times to claim doc.
You see that? And now the mafia is bound to notice too, which is why I was hoping a strongly worded post would be enough to clear Mataza of suspicions.
Hopefully Mataza will come in and tell us that this was a mistake, he is not the cop. If he does that I'll completely renounce my stance of him being innocent, and treat him as every other villager.
But until he clears this up, we will treat him as a potential cop. Now the mafia is bound to shoot him in the first night anyway, but there is no reason for us to do the mafia's job.
@DeepBlu2: you mention Giyg attacking two people? Who is the other one? I thought all his posts were mostly directed at Mataza? But then again, I sometimes can't even understand what Giyg is saying... so I might be wrong. Please explain your defense.
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Back @ prp
Who would I lynch? Good question. So far I behaved very provocative without telling much in hope a scum would slip clearly. There might be slips, but they are not obvious. Also it is harder to stay objective when being focussed thern I thought. I can´t say for sure just yet. But I will begin working on my cases now
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I feel it appropriate to respond to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about what people say. With this, we can certainly deduce that quotes are important, yes? I have not twisted anyone's thinking thus far, I have not accused anyone. I have merely said "Well, what about this?" When have I turned against Viscera? The only reason I'm even suspecting them is because they are the only ones with enough content to analyse. No, I wasn't the first one to attack Mataza either, it WAS Viscera, who indeed targeted me in his post as well (A bit, not too much). How have I been sly BTW, is when i'm pretty up-front about things? Now, I didn't use quotes or responses here to defend myself (Which I have never actually really had to do yet except once, good sample size). While the fact you have really only written 2 paragraphs, and are already blaming people is a bit scummy to me. That said, I don't think you're Mafia.
JOKE: I wouldn't suspect Mataza as my biggest threat if I was Mafia, because he can't even spell my name right. At least you can't spell his.
On May 17 2011 19:53 DeepBlu2 wrote: Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence.
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On May 17 2011 22:56 Mataza wrote:Back @ prp Who would I lynch? Good question. So far I behaved very provocative without telling much in hope a scum would slip clearly. There might be slips, but they are not obvious. Also it is harder to stay objective when being focussed thern I thought. I can´t say for sure just yet. But I will begin working on my cases now Now I mean this as only I tiny bit of suspicion, but wouldn't that also imply: " I need to talk to my scum mates, so I'll get back to you on that one?"
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Explanation. I considered claiming cop even before I knew my alignment or role. If the game revolved heavily around roles like cop or doc it is not always a bad idea to claim cop. You get reactions, and until someone else also claims cop also authority. This gives structure to townplay and will lead to roleblocks or nightkills on you, wasting night actions on a simple townie or maybe even a doc save. Sounds good on paper. The disadvantage of course are heavy. Next to nobody thinks of these options and town will most likely push suspicion on you, the real cop will do that the hardest, giving himself away. That means if town overreacts, you not only miss a lynch but mafia gets a freehit on the real cop at night. It´s highly hypothethical now since it didn´t happen.
My comments on possible mafia behaviour were meant to taunt mafia into activity. Mafia who post heavily are prone to slipping, for example if they mix up real logic with scum logic. It might have worked, we need to analyze specific people to get any of that.
Longer analysis posts coming soon.
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While I would've preferred "No, I'm not the cop" I will accept this for now.
This also means I renounce all my previous claims that Mataza was innocent.
I mean, I still have problems with the way you post, that post was made after the game started, so you must've known your role by then. In general lying as a townie is a bad idea, and given your previous experience you should really know that...
I expect you to step up your play and be more consistent.
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The problem is, we have remember that it could very well be Setup 2. With no cops or docs.
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FoS Giygas. All his posts:+ Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 14:46 GiygaS wrote: I agree. Everyone should make a short little post, so we can immmediately get some background info on each person. If we get lucky, we may catch a Mafia (who knows :D) On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 16 2011 12:52 Mataza wrote:lynch and night kill. It means two people die between days. First day we are 12, and on day 4 we will be 6. If we never catch a maf, we lose then, because to vote we need to be more than 50% Townies. I think I overestimated my town Captain obvious also says: flamewheel91 is the Town Coach. Caller is the Mafia Coach. Qatol is the Neutral Coach. Asking the very basic questions is spam that doesn´t get us any information, which is anti town behaviour. I bet you 5 dollar that at least 1 mafia guy will pretend to not understand how the game works, if we keep asking dumb questions. We have Coaches for questions. After rereading this post, I have a question for Mataza. At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that? Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA. On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:02 hiro protagonist wrote:good morning team. first timer here. I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me! What do you think of the whole inactive debate? I think first day we should give them a break, but as they are more and more inactive we may want to infer scummyness. Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P On May 17 2011 03:51 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:49 Mataza wrote:On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote:On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!" I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.) About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many. But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle. I want you to respond to what I've said. I'll quote everything we've "asked you" right now: + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing.
On May 17 2011 08:06 GiygaS wrote: Hey guys, just ogt home form school from my 1 hour trip. :/
I am now Gigays, okay. Also, Mataza, when did I defend VisceraEyes. I only have asked you to answer our questions, that's it. If there was ever an accusation, I would never go, but Viscera didn't do that, etc. To clarify something: Why say something if you think it would just WISOM? Is it to confuse all of us?
Anyway, I kind of FoS you, as you've really been the only one anyone can :/ Seriously people, TALK!
P.S. To anyone who actually knows what GiygaS is: NESSNESSNESSNESSNESS On May 17 2011 12:30 GiygaS wrote:Finally, more then 3 people talking! Welcome to the game prp and nard, nice to see some europeans now. Inactives:2 Guys we haven't seen, may get modkilled. Can't make an opinion on them yet. Karshe: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't really posted anything good at all. Might get modkilled, I don't know about him.
stefftastiq: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't posted much but a brief "hello". Mentionned something about people being trigger-happy. I'm a tad suspicious as he should have posted again by now.
Deepblu2 + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm. On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. Deepblu just posted so I haven't really had a chance to analyse his most recent post, but I'll give it a shot. His first post detailed how he's indeed "active" and he's formulating an opinion. Initially a bit scummy, if he hadn't posted anything, but he has now, so that lowers a bit of his suspicion. Based on his recent entry, he's leaning towards Mataza, based on his defensive stance. Overall, hasen't really produced much content, so I can't really say much about him. More active people:Mataza + Show Spoiler +Now, this guy seems a bit scummy to me, PROBABLY the most so far. The reasons have been brought up already: - He's implying he wants to become A leader of the town (maybe so he can control people? I don't know) - He is very defensive about his spot, very resilient to abandon anything. I don't know if this means he's mafia, but a person who goes out his way to say he's innocent seems a bit guilty :/ - Mentioned how many days Mafia has to stay alive. Good just be some helpful math. - HOWEVER after all this, he said he puts himself officially on trial. And he will only answer questions specifically asked at him. This implies he knows he has done wrong and wants to get a bit out of the spotlight. This is most likely because he's tired of constantly defending himself, but it could also be that he's Mafia and wants to sink back in to the shadows. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Also, he's got my name wrong twice now (it's not gigays, or gigas, it's giygas ) VisceraEyes: + Show Spoiler + Got into Mataza as soon as the game begun, might just because he wants activity. The fact he HAS been avoiding questions to attack Mataza some more, which may imply he's trying to avoid them so that he doesn't have any answers. Don't know what I think of him, a bit suspicious.
prplhz (anyone got tricks for this guy's name? ) + Show Spoiler + Seems very rational to me. Got some more discussion other then the back and forth between me, Mataza and VisceraEyes. Seems very pro-town to me, but once again, your best friends can sometimes be your worst enemies. I'm not very suspicious of him.
nard + Show Spoiler +Kind of interesting. This guy has posted three times. Once to remind us all that it's too early to start making conclusions about Mataza, one that reminds us all that we have 48 hours before we have to make a decision and to take some time, and finally one that answers some suspicions on his first post, and saying he's not too suspicious of Mataza, and suspicous of me and Viscera (more Viscera). I don't know what this means, but IF we find out that Mataza is indeed a Mafia, I believe this guy is probably a cohort based on his behind-the-scenes support for the guy. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Has mostly mentioned inactives and getting some debate going on that topic. He may just be curious. That said, he was the first one to mention and notice Nard's post on being saying it was difficult to post the first time. Hasen't really added a lot of real content, but I believe he's pro-town. Only the minutest amount of suspicion.
hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... That's his only post. Unfortunately, we don't get any background info on what country he lives in, so we can't analyse when he'll post. Unfortunate :/ The fact that he did add SOMETHING (scum have probably posted) shows he MIGHT be pro-town in his behavior. Don't know what to think on him due to inactivity. EDIT: Okay, he just posted another one that added a bit more content, so I moved him down here. Basically listing his suspicions. Seem's a bit more mafia now to be honest based on his bandwagonning to everyone else, but he may just agree with some people. EDIT: Yes, this is my first time EVER playing mafia, so this is a new experience for me. i'm gonna be interested to see if anything else develops. On May 17 2011 12:35 GiygaS wrote:Even if I note EDIT? And the post mentionned editing when it was posting. Sorry, it's already been done D: On May 17 2011 12:50 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 12:44 Varpulis wrote: EBWOP: the reason for this is that editing allows players to alter the information that the rest of the town can use to analyze you.
For example, Imagine that I'm one of the mafia, and I post a scumlist, then check through the thread again and see that nobody else thinks that Node is scum, If i were allowed to edit, I could delete Node from my scumlist and fit in better with the town, and nobody will be able to point out later that I was suspicious of Node.
Do you understand why we don't allow editing? Yeah, sorry. What can I do now though? Won't do it again BTW. On May 17 2011 15:46 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 14:58 Mataza wrote: Lol Karshe. Giygass having done a great job of all people?
I do state the obvious since this is a newbie game. And since the very beginning I had the feeling that some people do not know how this really works. I also "defend" myself as people are requesting answers for questions that they don´t write. I especially like "various questions". Giygass requests answers for nonsensical questions. Viscera took what I said and distorted it. His point on me provoking wifom is wrong. I urge you to reread that.
I will make my cases later in the day. It´s 8 in the morning over here, gotta get busy. Are you writing my name wrong on purpose. Seriously. On my demanding answers to nonsensical questions, how is asking you: + Show Spoiler +- On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
To which you respond "Oh, I wanted to know how many times we can fail." + Show Spoiler +- What is your thoughts on this sentence: On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. To which you responded with a link to this thing call WIFOM. And all I could think about at this point in time is then; "Why did you say that in the first place"On the point of you bashing Karshe, he never said I was doing a great job, of say generating content. He said I was doing a great job of generating discussion. My intent throughout that afternoon.I even said: + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote: Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P Finally, I re-read Viscera's point on me, where he says: + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Feels green except for how quickly he jumped on Mata after I even hinted at a reddish hue. This immediately AFTER a very friendly post encouraging people to post. Left me thinking 'Why, so you could immediately CAPSLOCKMAFIA them like Mata? Watch carefully.
Actually, I didn't call him the mafia in all caps. this is actually what I said: + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA. Now notice here that I said "Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA". By this, I meant that I was imagining people screaming at each other: "HE LIED LOW HE IS THE MAFIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" etc etc. When I realized that these words, especially the capital letters, were indeed misunderstood, i made a brief apology. So when if ever, did I CAPSLOCKMAFIA Mata? On May 17 2011 23:02 GiygaS wrote:I feel it appropriate to respond to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about what people say. With this, we can certainly deduce that quotes are important, yes? I have not twisted anyone's thinking thus far, I have not accused anyone. I have merely said "Well, what about this?" When have I turned against Viscera? The only reason I'm even suspecting them is because they are the only ones with enough content to analyse. No, I wasn't the first one to attack Mataza either, it WAS Viscera, who indeed targeted me in his post as well (A bit, not too much). How have I been sly BTW, is when i'm pretty up-front about things? Now, I didn't use quotes or responses here to defend myself (Which I have never actually really had to do yet except once, good sample size). While the fact you have really only written 2 paragraphs, and are already blaming people is a bit scummy to me. That said, I don't think you're Mafia. JOKE: I wouldn't suspect Mataza as my biggest threat if I was Mafia, because he can't even spell my name right. At least you can't spell his. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 19:53 DeepBlu2 wrote: Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence.
On May 17 2011 23:04 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 22:56 Mataza wrote:Back @ prp Who would I lynch? Good question. So far I behaved very provocative without telling much in hope a scum would slip clearly. There might be slips, but they are not obvious. Also it is harder to stay objective when being focussed thern I thought. I can´t say for sure just yet. But I will begin working on my cases now Now I mean this as only I tiny bit of suspicion, but wouldn't that also imply: " I need to talk to my scum mates, so I'll get back to you on that one?"
At first I assumed he was simply a colossal sheep, but his last posts changed this for me. He distances himself from being the first one fossing me. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 23:02 GiygaS wrote:I feel it appropriate to respond to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about what people say. With this, we can certainly deduce that quotes are important, yes? I have not twisted anyone's thinking thus far, I have not accused anyone. I have merely said "Well, what about this?" When have I turned against Viscera? The only reason I'm even suspecting them is because they are the only ones with enough content to analyse. No, I wasn't the first one to attack Mataza either, it WAS Viscera, who indeed targeted me in his post as well (A bit, not too much). How have I been sly BTW, is when i'm pretty up-front about things? Now, I didn't use quotes or responses here to defend myself (Which I have never actually really had to do yet except once, good sample size). While the fact you have really only written 2 paragraphs, and are already blaming people is a bit scummy to me. That said, I don't think you're Mafia.JOKE: I wouldn't suspect Mataza as my biggest threat if I was Mafia, because he can't even spell my name right. At least you can't spell his. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 19:53 DeepBlu2 wrote: Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence.
Scum logic: They will lynch the first accuser, when Mataza flips town. Why should he distance himself now? Because he knows I´m town.
He is still hiding behind Viscera and his reasoning even after Viscera dropped his FoS against me. If he was town I would expect him to come up with his own reasoning and standing up for it.
Also note that he casts suspicion right back at deepblu. The best thing yet, he is scummy because of having suspicions after only writing 2 paragraphs. He then immediately takes it back. Purpose of that: None/inflating post length; for town Inflating post length/casting suspicion on someone; for mafia Even better, why is having an opinion after 2 paragraphs scummy? Because I said so. I said, often quoted, that laying low is what mafia should do. Also this is an immediate response to being called mafia by deepblu.
My second point is the question affair. It annoys me to hell. + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:49 Mataza wrote:On May 17 2011 00:20 GiygaS wrote:On May 16 2011 23:52 VisceraEyes wrote: @nard
Here's the thing...there might be special roles in the game; we don't know that there aren't. We're merely operating under the assumption that there are no PRs because until there's a special circumstance, there's no way to know otherwise.
At present, I'm not really badmouthing anyone. I'm asking questions. People asking questions aren't scummy, as asking questions is all we can really do (unless you count randomly pointing fingers). If you'll direct your attention to the post in question, it's clear that I'm just trying to clarify Mataza's intentions. I actually think my post is to blame for people saying trigger-happy, as mine says HE IS THE MAFIA in all caps. Now I meant this jokingly, but it could have been taken as trigger happy. But, I do want Mayaza to answer our various questions. I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!" I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.) About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many. But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle. I want you to respond to what I've said. I'll quote everything we've "asked you" right now: + Show Spoiler +On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: At the beginning of a game, one starts to think about their goals. Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing.
Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 14:58 Mataza wrote: Lol Karshe. Giygass having done a great job of all people?
I do state the obvious since this is a newbie game. And since the very beginning I had the feeling that some people do not know how this really works. I also "defend" myself as people are requesting answers for questions that they don´t write. I especially like "various questions". Giygass requests answers for nonsensical questions. Viscera took what I said and distorted it. His point on me provoking wifom is wrong. I urge you to reread that.
I will make my cases later in the day. It´s 8 in the morning over here, gotta get busy. Are you writing my name wrong on purpose. Seriously. On my demanding answers to nonsensical questions, how is asking you: + Show Spoiler +- On May 16 2011 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Your first act in this game was to count the minimum number of days before mafia wins under optimal circumstances. Why is that?
To which you respond "Oh, I wanted to know how many times we can fail." + Show Spoiler +- What is your thoughts on this sentence: On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. To which you responded with a link to this thing call WIFOM. And all I could think about at this point in time is then; "Why did you say that in the first place" Aren´t those 2 very great questions? Imagine you were asked these. Especially the mafia behaviour question. Would your answer be conclusive for anything? You might be mafia so why don´t you behave exactly the opposite? Now if you would ask yourself this question, you would notice it´s not a really good question. You want hard evidence as town. This is not the least bit hard evidence. Giygas however takes it very seriously. It is scary to him, very scary indeed. He assumes it is scary to everyone else. That´s why keeps asking this question.
Third point: Blatant Blaming + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 23:04 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 22:56 Mataza wrote:Back @ prp Who would I lynch? Good question. So far I behaved very provocative without telling much in hope a scum would slip clearly. There might be slips, but they are not obvious. Also it is harder to stay objective when being focussed thern I thought. I can´t say for sure just yet. But I will begin working on my cases now Now I mean this as only I tiny bit of suspicion, but wouldn't that also imply: " I need to talk to my scum mates, so I'll get back to you on that one?" Why not just drop it and just say Mataza is mafia.
My conclusion: He is talking a lot, quoting a whole lot, but not really thinking a lot. He recycles old posts a lot and. His own post content is chaotic and not getting anywhere. He got very defensive against deepblu, ending with casting a suspicion on him, taking it back and then trying to make a joke at the end.
Giygas is mafia.
##vote Giygas
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Added benefit: Quoting gets a whole lot easier if the person you are quoting does not contain half the thread in any given post.
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I see no reason we should worrying about the game set up on Day 1, since we have no way of knowing what game type we're playing.
I, too, questioned Mataza's early cop claim, but was hesitant to bring light to it. I'm not sure I buy your reasoning, and there's always LAL (lynch all liars).
I'm not convinced you're mafia yet, but I'll be keeping an eye on your posts.
Taking a look at others, I am growing increasingly suspicious of Palmar.
On May 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: I'm more worried about the quiet people, it's only been 13 hours or so, but we're still missing half the town in the action.
If people don't post people don't make mistakes. So please type in a few sentences so we know you're alive
Getting easy town cred while not really contributing and just saying, "where is everyone?"
On May 17 2011 02:50 Palmar wrote: Why would it take effort to create a first post? Even if you say something completely retarded it's fine as long as you have nothing to hide. Barring revealing a blue power role, anything you say in your first post will just be that... a simple first post.
Not contributing.
Then, his most eye raising act, he then takes it upon himself to defend Mataza, the town's biggest point of discussion, while pointing a completely random finger away from Mataza. And I mean, he really defends Mataza.
My only concern is if both Mataza and Palmar were scum, Palmar wouldn't be defending Mataza so blantantly (and oddly). I'll be keeping an eye on your posts as well.
To finish with: I am still not sold on Gigyas being scum, but it may be at this point that I'm just taking Mataza's posts with a grain of salt. I will re-read Gigyas' posts in a bit with an open mind.
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Also, I wanted to say,
On May 17 2011 22:04 Palmar wrote: @purplehaze... you're an idiot, but you're not scum, or at least you're not an obvious scum.
There's no need for that. This a openly a noobie game, many of us are still learning the ropes... there's no need for name calling. All it will do is discourage further posting and create a negative atmosphere. We're all here to have fun lynching mafia, right?
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United States22154 Posts
Vote count
DeepBlu2 (1) Palmar
stefftastiq (1) VisceraEyes
GiygaS(2) DeepBlu2 Mataza
GiygaS Leading with two votes, day ends in a little under 10 hours, remember to vote or be modkilled
EDIT: Also, no personal insults, attack the argument, not the person please.
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YES guys. ##Unvote stefftastiq
The fact of the matter is that Mataza, while appearing guilty at first, had never really done anything OVERTLY anti-town. He suspected me of course, being one of the loudest voices opposing him...but that's only natural right? While I don't consider him "innocent as a newborn baby", I don't consider him guilty either. This is why I retracted my FoS on him and why I decided to instead cast my vote for an inactive to generate discussion. Luckily, yous guys didn't need my help as the discussion was obviously NOT generated by me, but rather by analysis and rationale. Kudos team.
Honestly I don't care if that looks scummy or not. It had the desired effect. Now to analyze. Thanks to your diligence, I have lots to go back and read. Expect a full report soon. *salute*
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((OOC: Sorry about the idiot comment, I will keep it cleaner))
On May 18 2011 01:14 Karshe wrote: Then, his most eye raising act, he then takes it upon himself to defend Mataza, the town's biggest point of discussion, while pointing a completely random finger away from Mataza. And I mean, he really defends Mataza.
Hell yes I did!
I'd do it again... and you know what: I'm going to!
@Mataza
- Regarding Giyg
I don't think he's mafia, and I don't think you are either. You're obviously the more experienced player of you two, and at least your posts make sense, something I haven't been able to decode from Giyg's posts.
I really do think you're just two townies randomly pointing fingers at each other while the true scum sits back and enjoys the show. But this is just my gut feeling though, I don't have any evidence to back it up. Perhaps because I really just can't make anything useful out of Giyg's posts
I mean, the logic is quite simple:
Either he's spammy town or bad mafia. If he's bad mafia he's an easy lynch later on, and might even reveal more connections in the coming days. If he's spammy town... well then he's just spammy town.
So yeah, if he's mafia, then he's actually so bad that we can use it against them.
But I really don't think he is, I think the mafia lurks amongst the less active or moderately active players.
But then again... maybe lynching him is worth just getting rid of the shitstorm of useless posts he conjures...
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My vote on Giygas is half cold, hard speculation and half policy lynch. He hurts town with posts that are inconclusive and badly written.
So @Palmar, why exactly do you want to keep him. He knows we are on to him. Even if he is bad mafia he will keep quiet now. While if he is gone he doesn´t distract us further.
Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation. Bad town might do that as well. Both are bad for town.
I am convinced that Giygas is the best lynch for today.
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I want to keep him because I'm not afraid of him.
What I'm afraid of is going into day two with very little or no information about half the players in the game. How on earth are you going to analyse who is mafia amongst the people that have hardly said anything so far in the game?
Any information is better than no information. This is why I don't want to just let everyone bandwagon you in the first place, and then Gyig now. I want one of the people that aren't contributing against the wall.
On May 18 2011 02:01 Mataza wrote: Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation. Bad town might do that as well. Both are bad for town.
This is very much true. But I'd rather have to filter through tons of bad information injected by mafia, than having no information at all and just playing a guessing game. Actually, here's a promise for you, if everyone comes into the thread, contributes and makes good analysis of the situation, I will switch my vote to GiygaS and help you get him lynched.
Just so you know how I think in this game. Karshe recently posted an analysis on me, and accused me of being red. This only reduced the chance of me going after him, because he is at least trying to contribute.
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Hello town! First I must apoligize for my absence. I have been quite busy lately, and this is the first time i'm home since the game started. I realize there is not much left of the first day.
Mataza is quite active, but I do not think he is a mafia, and I do not find his behaviour suspicious. He is asking questions that I think are well placed.
##Vote Giygas
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Hello lynch canididate number 2.
Paraphrased: "I have a weak excuse. Don´t modkill me."
What is more probable: "I agree with the guy blaming my partner in crime. That makes me look innocent" or "I agree with the guy who was suspected the most during the day. I don´t think any of the scummy things he said were scummy, because I like to believe."
If Giygas flips scum, I´d say he is our target for day 2.
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@Skrammen
Hi, could you please, in a very short while, provide A LOT more content for us to analyze? I was kinda hoping you would get modkilled.
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Hi Skrammen,
We're glad you were able to make it, but we need you to post more information.
If you're thinking you will not be able to play as a result of real life, you can request a replacement.
Otherwise, we will need you to post more analysis and not just bandwagon... or you risk being lynched as a result of being a non-helpful townie.
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Not enough discussion today, getting worried.
To reiterate what Palmar has said,
On May 18 2011 02:23 Palmar wrote: But I'd rather have to filter through tons of bad information injected by mafia, than having no information at all and just playing a guessing game.
and my own stance on Day 1:
On May 17 2011 01:53 Karshe wrote: Inactives are a mixed bag for me. I agree that lynching them isn't the wisest choice because there's a low chance they are mafia... but inactives also irritate me to no end. I understand that RL > TL and things come up, but why join the game if you're not going to play? It just ruins the spirit of the game for me and I have low tolerence/patience for inactives.
I have a low tolerance for inactive players. I am still very suspicious of Mataza, but I would much rather have him in the game and posting consistantly compared to someone who posts once in this thread and once in the vote thread.
Lynching an inactive poster may not give us very much information on Day 2, but I believe it will help us in the long run because we will have more information to dissect from active players in future days.
So, my intetion is to vote for an inactive as we get closer to night time. I'm allowing more time for those inactive to post some analysis, or request a replacement.
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Sorry, few spelling errors in there... I really hate not being able to edit. =P
But my stance has been made.
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Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on.
So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night!
So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active.
People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum!
So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say?
And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours.
((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing ))
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I will write my testament at night, after we know the result of todays lynch. I have a small hitlist already, pretty sure scum are in there. By the way, the lynchvotes are unstable. I hope we get some votes in the last hours, because if we stay under 3 votes, scum can just all vote on a townie and we waste our lynch. Hell they don´t even need to all vote. They just need to ensure a mislynch with 1 or 2 votes.
People vote!
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If no vote means modkill, this game will be over in 4 hours.
Right now only 4 people voted. You can´t be serious.
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My thoughts on this post are in BOLD
On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:Yo people I see that people have started voting now, around 16 hours before deadline. This is not good people. Unvoting is very suspucious and there is still plenty of time for people to provide material to analyze. Of course some claim to do it for the sake of discussion but I still think that this is very bad. In addition to this I do not think that any of these votes are currently well founded, they are wild accusations at best. First of all, in my opinion, having perfect conviction and unerring foresight are NOT prerequisites to being a good townie. In fact, if people have it in their minds that unvoting is suspicious, they won't vote until someone tells them it's the right thing to do. People should make up their own minds and vote according to what they think is right for the town. And if that changes, that's totally fine. Unvoting isn't suspicious...what's suspicious is the TIMING of unvoting.I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. So wait...is it bad or is it good that people have removed focus? You appear to have nothing against Mataza from this passage, aside from the fact that people aren't focusing on him anymore.I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? Further evidence that you're okay with Mataza...asking his advice as you feel he has qualities you can use to hunt scum.So I'm going to go ahead and do something that VisceraEyes has done several time. Point fingers at some random person for the sake of discussion. And this random person is going to be VisceraEyes himself. Some reasons (so it's not entirely random who I am pointing fingers at) for this: 1. He was the first person who point fingers at others. While he might have done this for the sake of discussion, I think that mostly scum would do this early on in the game. Townies would consider how the other person might be a townie and how unfounded accusations might harm the town, even if you made it clear that they are unfounded. While this is a game of finger pointing, and we can't all do it simultaneously...being the FIRST to point fingers shouldn't really be a scum-tell...SOMEONE is going to be first, and there's no reason to believe that it will be scum.2. He is often analyzing his own actions. This is something I think you would (should) mainly do when you are scum. There is nothing to fear as a townie, only thing you have to consider is how the town can benefit the most from your actions. While we would all like to survive this game I think this is done best by being honest and only analytical of the actions of potential scum. I'm not sure what you mean by 'analyzing my own actions', but I've been nothing but honest and forthright with everyone from the beginning. Obviously there's no way to prove that, but I've also given you no reason to doubt me.3. He has just something I would deem crazy to do if you were a townie. He suddenly said "this guy I have been bashing all game long, maybe he's not scum so I'm just gonna vote for someone and provide very limited rationale for this". This is not only very scum-like in my eyes, it is also harmful to the town. Okay, speaking to this...I had a scummy feeling about Mataza from the beginning, and I FoS'd him. I didn't 'bash' anyone 'all game long'. Not only that, but I shifted my focus OFF of someone you've spent a lot of this post BUILDING UP as someone useful for town. I fail to see how me NO LONGER SUSPECTING someone you feel is trustworthy would indicate scumminess.@VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Off the hook? But...you....you said you....but...Guy, these contradictions are getting palpable.Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control @Palmar : Why do you think Mataza is "innocent as a newborn baby"? Gutfeeling is not an acceptable answer Think that was it for now. I will try to vote around 4 hours before deadline. Finals notes on what I think all townies should currently be aware of: Lurking townies make it possible for scum to play lurker style too. I think everybody should get up and post some analysis, if you are a townie this is absolutely the best thing you can do. We still missing a couple of you but this is making the game very much harder for town! I would consider any of the prospective modkills (Skrammen, Wunder) showing up in the nick of time to cast crucial votes for the lynching VERY suspicious. Even if they decide to show up now I think they will be very harmful to town if they don't post a lot in a very short amount of time. It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces
You talk a lot about being "In Control" of people...you don't control anyone my friend. And neither does the town. It is for this attitude and the thoughts posted in the quote above that I now FoS: prplhz
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As for my vote, I still intend to vote for an inactive for reasons I've already stated, but I wanted to give as much time as possible to allow for them to speak up.
I feel like we've got some scum lurking and waiting to put in a last minute vote to bandwagon whoever the town has decided on.
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Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen
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Also, if he posts with some more lgit content I`ll probably unvote and move to another last minute bandwagon jumper
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EBWODP:
Also, you say that you're going to vote for an inactive this lynch, yet you're suspicious of me for doing that very thing...for that very reason. I'm so confused it's ridiculous, and inciting confusion is something scummy people LOVE to do.
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Yea I'm gonna go ahead and vote now.
##Vote Skrammen
Reason for this is that he just comes in 8 hours before day1 ends, casts and vote with 2 paragraphs of resonable and does not respond to our pleas that he post some more content. I am going to be honest with you and say that maybe he's not the one who is most likely to be scum but I think he's the most harmful for the town right now.
If I should have voted for most likely to be scum I would vote for VisceraEyes for reasons I have already stated. Also his latest post is not really convincing me of anything else either.
To answer the post VisceraEyes just made, the one that was mainly about me; No I don't control anybody Other than that I can't seem to find anything in your post I should need to comment on because mostly you're just saying that you disagree with what I said.
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I don´t necessarily think trying to control is bad. As far as I am concerned, there are 3 types of people. Leaders, who have an opinion and a plan Players, who have an opinion. Sheep, who have neither.
Trying to get the situation under control so we can have uncluttered conversations is a good thing. We should care more about bandwagonjumpers. Namely Giygas and Karshe. Karshe may have jumped on the bandwagon so late that it passes by unnoticed, but he said he sounded sure Giygas is town and I am mafia. After he noticed the bandwagon was dead, he instantly dropped suspicion on me and now wants to lynch inactives. By now I am pretty sure that no mafia is inactive, but instead very outspoken.
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edit: He said he is sure/ he sounded sure.
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@prplhz
No, I pointed out several inconsistencies in that post that I'd like you to answer.
First of all, you called me out for 'pulling a 180' regarding Mata and voted for stefftastiq, an inactive non-poster who isn't helping town. And then what do you do? You cast your vote for an inactive non-poster who isn't helping town.
Not only that, you find the fact that I no longer find Mata suspicious. But nearly 40% of that post was talking about how you...no longer find Mata suspicious.
I guess you have no comment on these very clear cases of contradiction?
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My original vote but this time in bold. Apparently that's how you do it right.
##Vote Skrammen
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EBWODP
Also I find it interesting that the reason you gave for not commenting on things I said was that I just didn't agree with you. Yet the majority of the things I said were places where I point out where you AGREE with me...and you're most suspicious of me.
As Mata said...Maf is most likely active and outspoken. I'm not wasting time on inactives.
##vote prplhz
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The hell? You really think Skrammen is the best lynch? I can´t get my head around how anyone can think that.
Also purples reasoning for that sounds a lot like giygas reasoning. He has posted only 2 paragraphs and already votes. Sounds eerily familiar to me. Especially if you consider that Giygas is just voting on some random inactive person and trying not to slip up. He is so silent all of a sudden.
And yet prp agrees to vote some random inactive dude. Wtf?
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I'm silent cause there's nothing to say. Why else?
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EBWODP:
Mata, at the beginning of the game, you said the Mafia is likely going to lay low. Talk about 180, now your saying they've all already been quite outspoken...
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I said in the beginning of the game mafia should lay low, so they speak up and do mistakes. It was a taunt and it was intentional. It´s the fear of being catched.
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Viscera, I know prp behaves strange and inexplicable right now, but we are at risk that the mafia is able to decide the lynch.
DeepBlu2 Palmar
prplhz VisceraEyes
Skrammen Giygas prplhz
GiygaS DeepBlu2 Mataza Skrammen
If I did not mess up counting(I used all my 10 fingers too) a last minute switch to skrammen could cost us the lynch. You should be aware what could and probably will happen if we spread the votes too thin.
prplhz will be top priority for the cop tonight, if we have a cop, that is.
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Under 3 hours till modkills everyone. CAST YOUR VOTES. Seriously, the Mafia wins if everyone dies cause they didn't vote.
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@Mata
Unless 2 Maf are already voting for Skrammen. >.> <.<
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EBWODP: Yeah, that is the correct votes right now.
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If we were mafia, why didn't we target Deepblu? Then it would have been even. :/ The point is, we're not.
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On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote: So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night!
prplhz...
Why do you keep doing this man, most everything you post is fairly well structured and useful, and then you throw in some random comment that's basically useless for the town, and even directly harmful.
I don't really give a shit about all the stuff VisEyes said, he's just building straw houses like he's been doing all game. I don't mind that at all.
But this one quote really requires explanation. Why would you ever ask for doctor protection? That simply doesn't make sense from a logical point of view. I'll explain why...
Scenario 1: You're green town
You should _never_ ask for protection as a green townie. Your death during the night is great success for the town, because no blue role was harmed.
Scenario 2: You're blue town (and thus cop, since none of the possible setups have 2 docs)
Mafia _immediately_ knows the setup now (since they already know if they have a roleblocker or not). If they have a roleblocker, they'll just roleblock you, and if they don't have a roleblocker, they know there is no doc in the setup... so they just kill you.
Well you might be meta-gaming hardcore... trying to reverse trick the mafia into going for you, and thus dying as green. But there is a term for lynching anyone that lies during the game (lal - lynch all liars). Lying is a big gamble for the town...
I think the biggest possibility is that you simply didn't think this through well enough, so I'd like to you to publicly renounce your request for doctor protection.
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On May 18 2011 07:41 Mataza wrote: Karshe may have jumped on the bandwagon so late that it passes by unnoticed, but he said he sounded sure Giygas is town and I am mafia. After he noticed the bandwagon was dead, he instantly dropped suspicion on me and now wants to lynch inactives. By now I am pretty sure that no mafia is inactive, but instead very outspoken.
I haven't bandwagon'd anyone, including you. I still have suspicions that you are mafia, I have not dropped anything at all. However, what I have said is:
On May 18 2011 05:18 Karshe wrote: I have a low tolerance for inactive players. I am still very suspicious of Mataza, but I would much rather have him in the game and posting consistantly compared to someone who posts once in this thread and once in the vote thread.
Lynching an inactive poster may not give us very much information on Day 2, but I believe it will help us in the long run because we will have more information to dissect from active players in future days.
I would rather vote an inactive who isn't contributing anything to the fun/game at all, rather than someone (you) who I believe to be shady but at least is actively participating. I have already stated why: we may have less information on Day 2, but more information in the future.
To answer purplehaze's question from earlier, if I had to pick a Day 2 lynch right now, it would be Mataza. I feel like you're trying to derail every lynch attempt, and you yourself have said:
On May 18 2011 02:01 Mataza wrote: Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation.
I still question your motives as well. So far you have been quoted as saying "Mafia will try to lurk!" while being the most active poster, and now you're saying, "Mafia are bandwagoning! By the way, I have never bandwagoned!" *wink wink nudge nudge*
I am about to leave for work, I will vote for an inactive in 30 minutes when I get home if they have not posted yet.
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@GiygaS
I'm pretty sure prplhz can speak for himself...unless he just doesn't need to cause you're on the same informed team.
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@Viscera: I meant we as in "If we were together" which was indeed the hypothetical scenario.
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Dumb EBWOP, but I meant, I am leaving from work, to home. =P
Be back in a bit.
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Going to be leaving until after the vote. Peace!
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Still 5 people who did not vote. Though Wunder is probably gonna get modkilled this is really not too good. There aren't even enough replacements if noone else votes :D
@VisceraEyes
I don't think that I did an 180 comparable to yours. You were much more vocal against Mataza than I was against anyone and then you suddenly make a vote against someone, with the rationale "this is for drama".
I was never very vocal in my accusations, and my vote is accompanied by more rationale, and supported by stuff I had said earlier on "I think it is better to vote for inactives that supposed scum because there are so many townies".
@Palmar
Yea I'm sorry about that actually. That was totally unnecessary. I think I wrote it because I want to participate in this game, and I am very sure I am right in my opinions (that's why I put so much effort into my posts, because I think my opinions are worth it), and with a good read on this game the mafia might just target me. And I don't want to get killed, I'm just getting started here! Anyway, any nurse should of course make his/her own opinion on who to protect. But you are very right, that was actually very stupid of me to disguise a plea for help as a joke.
And then of course there's the 3rd scenario of me being scum, don't forget that!
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VisceraEyes Hitlist
prplhz GiygaS Palmar
I especially like the part where Palmar doesn't think anything I say is worth mentioning. This is my vote order people. Today I vote prplhz, tomorrow I vote Palmar, the following day I vote GiygaS. I will be doing no more analysis and I'll be skirting being mod-killed until I'm either lynched or murdered, just so there's another green inactive that they can coerce you all to lynch.
gg Maf.
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I might not have any more time tonight (in europe, it's 2am).
@VisceraEyes
If you don't plan on playing I hope you will quit it so we can get a replacement. In the unlikely event that this somewhat odd statement is just to create drama and more posts, I do not think that it will work and I don't even think it is necessary even if it will work.
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As GiygaS is on my list and an actual lynch might actually happen on him tonight, I'm changing my order ever-so-slightly to accomodate.
[red]GiygaS prplhz Palmar[/r]
Today is GiygaS, tomorrow is prplhz and d3 is Palmar.
##unvote prplhz ##Vote GiygaS
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On May 18 2011 08:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I will be doing no more analysis and I'll be skirting being mod-killed until I'm either lynched or murdered, just so there's another green inactive that they can coerce you all to lynch.
gg Maf.
Wtf? What kind of lame attitude is that? Thanks for playing, man. Really appreciate the effort.
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Ok, LOTS to go on here, gonna give my take on things:
The General feeling for the first day started like this: the town began giving intro post that most had no content. the exception to this is of course Mataza, who kinda claimed Cop, and then retracted it.( I still do not like is explanation). the first three people to really get the ball rolling where ViscaraEyes, GiygaS, and Mataza. Of the three, I liked VisEyes approach the most, and Mataza's the least. but these 3 started talking, there still talking, and its leading somewhere. the way I feel about it is the longer they talk, the long one will slip up, and for me that does not make them A high priority lynch.
Is one of them Mafia? man it sure looks like it.
the next list of people include me: Hiro, Karshe, Palmar, Prplhz, and nard. Of this group, Prplhz and Karshe have had the most helpful post in my eyes. Palmar and nard mostly made some general post about the situation. Im leaving me out because thats a job for someone else.
Where does this leave me? I starting to look at inactives to vote for. but which one?
The only one I feel right now that would be an ok vote would be Skrammen, and heres why. the only post by Skrammen is one of agreeing with Mataza, apparently for no reason, ether he is a terrible Maffia, or a terrible townie.
Mataza, I want to believe your town, but the way you go about playing just rubs me a bit. I LOVE that you are taking swings at people, but as soon as some one wants to have a disscusion, you ether turn your finger on them, or call them a Bandwaggoner. I also dont like that almost every defense you say "I just wanted to see how you would react." that might be true, but it leaves me with no read on you...
what would we get if we voted Skrammen? if he flips town, we got a good reason to trust Mataza. If he flips scum, well, Mataza has some explaining to do...
will decide in a bit, to give more inactives time to post
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As I have been indicating all day: voting Skrammen, who has been inactive for the majority of the game except for a single bandwagon post which helped nothing.
##Vote: Skrammen
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Er, just to make sure... there's no separate voting thread? Hoping I'm not blind.
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Excuse the triple post, but grew half a brain and read the voting section of rules. My vote here stands.
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@VisEyes
and while I was posting you say that Jez, I was on board with you Vis, but that's just a lame attitude...
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On May 18 2011 08:18 GiygaS wrote: If we were mafia, why didn't we target Deepblu? Then it would have been even. :/ The point is, we're not. Who exactly is we?
And I am sure "you" could, you just don´t because it would increase suspicion against "them".
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@hiro
When all I hear is how none of my posts contain anything and basically everything I say can be ignored, I tend to clam up. If you're on board with me, vote GiygaS and see how he flips. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what you say.
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Btw skrammen is voted by karshe prplhz and giygas.
@Viscera, Change your list. Drop palmar, add Karshe. I was suspicious of him the moment he was sure of giygas being town, but no sure of you.
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I dunno, this seems too easy. Prplhz went from fine to scummy incredibly fast. There might be a slight twist ahead, but luckily we have at least 1 mislynch(unless 4 people are modkilled).
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Don't be so emotional VisEyes. This has nothing to do with your quality of posts, but about my preference of how to play this game. You wrote a long post on purplehaze where you accused him, which is fine, but to me irrelevant at this point in the game.
My opinion remains that the greatest threats to this town are people like DeepBlu, Wunder, stefftastiq, Hiro and Skrammen.
People who give us nothing to read them on. I mean, GiygaS is completely useless, so I'm not going to push against a lynch on him, hell... he might flip red and we're in good shape. But at some point this town needs to get aggressive towards those who just... don't do anything.
Now keep doing what you've been doing, because it's a good thing you're doing it.
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Yes, Mataza, because Karshe, PurpleHaze, and Giygas are all mafia and we're all voting for the same person!!! Really?? That's your argument?
How odd that I've rallied against you from the start, you've complete ignored or waived off my most recent red flags I've raised against you... and now you're trying to convince others to vote for me? Familiar with the term 'OMGUS' ?
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@Mataza
My list holds. They won't vote together if they think they can block it without doing so. That would look suspicious. If they think that they can block a good vote with just 2, they will. The fact that Karshe isn't sure of me is good...it means he's using his brain.
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@Mataza
Keep in mind that Palmar is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of GiygaS and prplhz' innocence.
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Btw @Hiro
It was kinda hard to not point a finger at someone who pointed at me first. 3 actives, 2-3 half actives, 7 inactives.
The thing is, you can´t really discuss who is mafia with few to nothing to go on. You have to put stress back and see who falters.
Holding out for inactives at this point is pointless. It´s 2 hours to go. I can´t see much changing right now. At least nothing that makes me think giygas is town, after he began by hiding behind visceras reasoning, without contributing more than 1 original thought.
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Karshe, why such an aggressive tone all of a sudden? (!!!)(??)
Nothing is set in stone. Until tomorrow morning you can´t be sure if that´s my actual hitlist. I intended to post it at the end of the night.
I am pretty nervous right now. If Giygas is simply a bad town I am guaranteed day2 lynch. That would be 2 mislynches, putting us in pretty bad shape. It´s nerve wrecking for me. I might lose all cred in 1 hour.
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@Mataza
Just wanted to make it clear that I was being dramatic/sarcastic, so later someone doesn't quote me and say "OMG Karshe admitted to being mafia!" Also, since sarcasm does not always translate online.
But I'm guessing you already knew that and you're just trying to get a rise out of me. =P
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gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hey guys! Sorry I've been so inactive, didn't know the game moved so fast I'm reading through the pages now, so I will edit this post to cast my vote.
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Welcome, Wunder. You may come across it while reading, but do not edit your post--just make a new one.
Happy reading!
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On May 17 2011 12:39 Varpulis wrote:Editing is not allowed for any reason. If you have more to say or want to correct a mistake, post again with the statement EBWOP(Edit By Way Of Posting). example:
On May 17 2011 12:44 Varpulis wrote: EBWOP: the reason for this is that editing allows players to alter the information that the rest of the town can use to analyze you.
For example, Imagine that I'm one of the mafia, and I post a scumlist, then check through the thread again and see that nobody else thinks that Node is scum, If i were allowed to edit, I could delete Node from my scumlist and fit in better with the town, and nobody will be able to point out later that I was suspicious of Node.
Do you understand why we don't allow editing?
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Oh my...
Talk about dramatic last minute appearance.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Wow, looks like I got in just under the clock. Whew.
I haven't played forum mafia before, and I've only played the SC2 mod of it, but that seems to take a few rules from F11's version and adds some new roles in it too. But I generally dislike having a lynch day one, although it seems to be mandatory, so I'm going to go with the safer option here and vote for
##Vote: Skrammen
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Wow - a lot of posting in short time - read through it all, trying to make some thoughts about some of us seems to be playing "the blame game" as never before!
My vote is based on thoughts around that and what other people have been saying.
short time to voting end? - im in eu timezone and a bit confused
##Vote Giygas
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##Vote Giygas
since its no editing
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
I think there's one hour? Good thing I woke up early today.
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I noticed ive been under suspicion, and even got a vote which also was removed - nice of you to do this!
After reading all the conversation going on in this town today it seems like a lot of assumptions are based on very weak clues and 'quotes' from one day work - I myself find it a bit hard to draw grande conclusions about whos being who as for now - I have really no good idea of how to make myself 'cleared' of suspicion right now, except from trying to post something about how I think right now
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oh my, waking up and checking mafia thread as the 1st thing was a good choice :D by skimming the last 4 new pages quick i find hiro's lynch logic the most appelling. as im lacking a big analysis right now, ill jump the bandwagon for the inactives - skrammen slightly more suspicious as after his 1st post there will still 8 hours to go and he didnt post again, even after being asked to.
##vote Skrammen
modkill avoided, suspicion raised - see you on day2 :3
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While we are at people flying under the radar.
6. Skrammen 7. stefftastiq 8. DeepBlu2
11. Wunder 12. nard
To me lynching inactives doesn´t look that safe. Maybe you´re right.
But I, right now, can´t be arsed to care for anything else, since my cred falls and rises with giygas alignment.
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Damn sheep.
I am convinced Giygas is the safest lynch. After accusation he had a total change of behaviour. He never explained why he doesn´t think I am the maf anymore. And he votes Skrammen.
By that logic alone I am sure, no, even convinced that skrammen will flip town.
Right now 6 people vote Skrammen. It might be ballsy to lynch the 3rd most active person of the first half of day 1. One doesn´t win by going the safe route all the time. Sooner or later we have to lynch someone "important"
Dammit. Get your own opinion and don´t just recycle one that looks good and safe.
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Never mind that the two who butted heads the hardest the first part of day 1 are in total agreement on this matter...that's not important. What IS important is that someone is inactive. And that guy's gotta DIE.
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@Wunder
Did you just read all 8 pages of posts ...... in 6 minutes? (the time from your first post to your vote)
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United States22154 Posts
Vote count
DeepBlu2 (1) Palmar
stefftastiq (0)
VisceraEyes
GiygaS(5) DeepBlu2 Mataza Skrammen VisceraEyes stefftastiq
Skrammen(6) GiygaS prplhz Karshe hiro protagonist Wunder nard
prplhz(0)
VisceraEyes
Skrammen Leading with six votes,GiygaS in second with six votes. day ends in a little under 17 min. Everyone has voted ^_^
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Yea this may be a huge mistake but if I'm gonna make it, it is going to be in the first game.
##Unvote Skrammen ##Vote GiygaS
My rationale:
The whole "vote for skrammen" thing was never about him being scum, it was about him being inactive and voting out of the blue. I think that we are going to have a lot better read on VisceraEyes, Mataza and Skrammen if we flip GiygaS, while flipping Skrammen will really give us nothing. Inactive players have hopefully learned their lesson.
Also I think it is very awesome that everybody voted, but it would be more awesome if everybody posted regularly too!
If he does not flip red I think the VisceraEyes is the best bid for a scum next time.
I'll probably be unavailable for the next 24 hours by way, and also for the first part of day1 but I will be here to answer questions just not to provide analysis.
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prplhz, you sly dog. Well played scum.
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United States22154 Posts
Vote count
DeepBlu2 (1) Palmar
stefftastiq (0)
VisceraEyes
GiygaS(6) DeepBlu2 Mataza Skrammen VisceraEyes stefftastiq prplhz
Skrammen(5) GiygaS
prplhz Karshe hiro protagonist Wunder nard
prplhz(0)
VisceraEyes
GiygaS to be lynched, night post incoming
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You had your time to recast your vote VisceraEyes.
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@prplhz I had no desire to change my vote until your 11th hour scum-switch.
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Careful. If Giygas flips scum, prplhz will try to sanitize his credibility with this last minute switch. This game might still get interesting.
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@sandroba
Enjoying the show?
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YAY I like watching this also. Also (lol same word twice), GM is really slow. REALLY slow. Oh, and I'm surprised that there are not going to be any inactive modkills, especially because this is a newbie game.
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Just because it´s a newbie game doesn´t mean we have to play bad. But that is going into a later analysis of mine.
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United States22154 Posts
Night 1
Preoccupiedand enraged by the slaughter of their town leaders the citizens of liquidia gathered in the town square, and broke into fierce arguments over who was responsible for the crimes. After much bickering and anger it seemed like Skrammen was to be lynched, but as prplhz was readying to pull the lever, he suddenly changed his mind, and quickly grabbed GiygaS instead. With a snap of breaking bone GiygaS died, red blood flowing from his broken neck
GiygaS the Mafia Goon has been lynched
Night one has begun, and ends in a little under 24 hours, remember to PM any and all night actions to both myself and chaoser.
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As this is likely my last night alive (either Mataza or I WILL die tonight), I'll be posting a FULL analysis when I get home from work. Great job team.
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Wow, great job guys!
I definitely have pie on my face for putting Giygas' name in green. ~_~
I understand this may put me towards the top of some lists. Hopefully as I go back and read the thread, there will be others who will have tried to defend him as well.
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What's so hard to believe prplhz?
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I am not screwed! Very relieving.
Just to provide an intro to scumhunt nr 2, I would like some of you to try and think like scum. Being second on a lynch without providing any original content was apparently Giygas plan.
We have to assume that it is indeed possible 1 or even both of the other scum voted for Giygas lynch. From my point of view he was irredeemably lost. Don´t fall for the trap of only hunting people who voted different. You hunt scum not by a single indication, but by putting together a puzzle.
And yes, this should be obvious. Still not many really did that.
Scumhunting begins tomorrow anew. Our Last minute posters have to make up for what they didn´t do day 1.
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Nope Karshe, you are alone there. You even qualify for chainsaw defense, blaming me while defending him. We have 72 hours to observe you
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And person who hopefully know I am talking to him: You know what you should do now. Don´t overthink and go for the obvious.
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Well that's unfortunate.
All I can really say is that I had a horrible read, apparently.
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Alright, turns out he was indeed a terrible mafia!
This definitely isn't a bad start. I still worry about the amount of information we have, but I guess that can be remedied in the coming days.
First thing to do is try not to overthink the situation. There is a chance the mafia might have voted for Giyg as soon as they saw him as a potential target, but the obvious and much more accessible solution is to approach the problem from the point of view that mafia didn't vote for mafia.
So unless any major clues get revealed, the first thing to do is to analyse and understand everyone that got on the wrong side of the vote, and try to find out who was genuinely wrong and who had malicious intent.
Karshe Hiro Protagonist Wunder Nard Palmar
It's more than likely that both the remaining mafia can be found in this list.
I will break down everyone's posts in this list, except of course myself, that's a job for someone else, and provide analysis in the coming day.
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GG everyone. Almost had you
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I would prefer to work the other way around.
My safe list contains: deepblu2 Skrammen (myself obviously) (viscera)
This of course needs qualification. I actually just found out that deepblu was on to giygas before me. Not very active, still right. Skrammen. 1 post. Still right. I think it´s safe to assume Mafs are going to be active. Way more active then these 2.
I put Viscera half on the list. He may be all over the place and not the most solid player, but he is constant. No change in behaviour even after my initial small analysis. That means he either doesn´t fear suspicion because he knows he is innocent or he has ballsnerves of steel.
My main suspects as of right now are Palmar and Karshe.
On the other hand, we shouldn´t really do that much at night. Maybe pray that we got a favorable setup.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hi! Sorry, can dead people still post? Probably not, right?
Anyways, sorry for the wrong vote - decided to go with the safer vote rather than have a bunch of suspect innocents. I'll hopefully participate more tomorrow!
Just to clarify, we can PM anyone here right? To have like secret conversations?
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United States22154 Posts
On May 18 2011 18:18 Wunder wrote: Hi! Sorry, can dead people still post? Probably not, right?
Anyways, sorry for the wrong vote - decided to go with the safer vote rather than have a bunch of suspect innocents. I'll hopefully participate more tomorrow!
Just to clarify, we can PM anyone here right? To have like secret conversations?
PM's are *not* allowed this game, so no, you cannot PM anyone, unless you are mafia, in which case you can PM your mafia buddies.
And dead people cannot post
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Nice Job guys.. He made it way too obvious.
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Heh. I see that there was quite a lot of action here while I was sleeping last night. This is good. I must say you were quick to vote for me, and then suddenly prplhz changed his vote. Like its straight out of a M. Night Shamyalalalalan movie.
Although you were right to be suspicious, hell, I would be too. Yesterday was the national day in the cold north, so I did not have a lot of time to make a thorough and constructive post. I am glad, however, that we did get the mafia. Was it obvious, or a stroke of luck? I found him suspicious.
I am eagerly awaiting some new posts. I'm not able to deduce anything of import from these posts, but I guess, as someone put it earlier, that I am terrible at this.
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@skrammen - greetings fellow Norwegian! :-) (*was celebrating yesterday as well*)
else:
nice to see a mafia lynch first day - if it was luck or good thinking by us, right now, who knows?
As for now I'm a bit suspicious about everybody
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@VisceraEyes
Before you might be scum-killed
On May 18 2011 11:08 VisceraEyes wrote: @prplhz I had no desire to change my vote until your 11th hour scum-switch.
What was that about? Why did you want to change your vote after my "11th hour scum-switch"? Who did you want to change your vote to? I am very curious abouts this.
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I think purplehaze deserves the game award for best drama day 1.
And I claim of course magnificient scumhunting that led to successful lynch. Magnificient
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On May 18 2011 12:26 Palmar wrote: Alright, turns out he was indeed a terrible mafia!
This definitely isn't a bad start. I still worry about the amount of information we have, but I guess that can be remedied in the coming days.
First thing to do is try not to overthink the situation. There is a chance the mafia might have voted for Giyg as soon as they saw him as a potential target, but the obvious and much more accessible solution is to approach the problem from the point of view that mafia didn't vote for mafia.
So unless any major clues get revealed, the first thing to do is to analyse and understand everyone that got on the wrong side of the vote, and try to find out who was genuinely wrong and who had malicious intent.
Karshe Hiro Protagonist Wunder Nard Palmar
It's more than likely that both the remaining mafia can be found in this list.
I will break down everyone's posts in this list, except of course myself, that's a job for someone else, and provide analysis in the coming day.
Here's my problem with your approach here Palmar. Everyone on that list voted for Skrammen for one reason: Because he's inactive and you (among others) were gunning hard for inactives the ENTIRE GAME. I don't even have to analyze your posts...they all say the same thing.
"Inactives are a threat to this town, we must get rid of them first."
What I find interesting is that after spending all game saying this, the very first post you make after we find some scum is "Forget inactives...let's start looking for scum now!"
As Mataza pointed out, 2 of the 4 most inactive players voted rightly for who they thought was scum. The other 2 bandwaggoned on someone more inactive than they are.
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@prplhz
At the time, you were top of my list for people who are red. Mainly because you were targeting me and I suck. At any rate, one of the things I said to you earlier was "Unvoting is NOT suspicious...timing of unvoting IS suspicious."
You have to admit....pulling a 9:59 switch totally betraying the people who were voting for the inactive....it looks pretty scummy.
I had no desire to switch my vote until you did this. I dont' know who I would've switched to, but I know that I didn't want my vote to lie with yours, scum in my eyes.
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Well I guess one thing that seems to be clear is that Mataza appears to be a townie.
He was going so out of his way to discredit Giygas who ended up flipping red. Either he's a great townie, or a very ballsy mafia.
I am most suspicious of VisceraEyes at the moment... going to re-read all of his posts today and see what I can come up with.
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@Karshe
[sarcasm]Yeah, I agree...someone who had GiygaS on his official, posted scum-list should have MOST of your suspicion.[/sarcasm]
Unless we have a doc, I postulate that Mafia intend to murder Mataza and discredit me to try and get me lynched d2.
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Well, my prediction for our first night after Giygas flipped red was that Viscera orders a hit on Mataza, his most outspoken opponent thus far, and then Viscera claims to have been framed since Viscera eliminating Mataza seems too easy/obvious.
I would love to be proven wrong, though, since you both have been very active/useful players.
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On May 19 2011 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 12:26 Palmar wrote: Alright, turns out he was indeed a terrible mafia!
This definitely isn't a bad start. I still worry about the amount of information we have, but I guess that can be remedied in the coming days.
First thing to do is try not to overthink the situation. There is a chance the mafia might have voted for Giyg as soon as they saw him as a potential target, but the obvious and much more accessible solution is to approach the problem from the point of view that mafia didn't vote for mafia.
So unless any major clues get revealed, the first thing to do is to analyse and understand everyone that got on the wrong side of the vote, and try to find out who was genuinely wrong and who had malicious intent.
Karshe Hiro Protagonist Wunder Nard Palmar
It's more than likely that both the remaining mafia can be found in this list.
I will break down everyone's posts in this list, except of course myself, that's a job for someone else, and provide analysis in the coming day. Here's my problem with your approach here Palmar. Everyone on that list voted for Skrammen for one reason: Because he's inactive and you (among others) were gunning hard for inactives the ENTIRE GAME. I don't even have to analyze your posts...they all say the same thing. "Inactives are a threat to this town, we must get rid of them first." What I find interesting is that after spending all game saying this, the very first post you make after we find some scum is "Forget inactives...let's start looking for scum now!" As Mataza pointed out, 2 of the 4 most inactive players voted rightly for who they thought was scum. The other 2 bandwaggoned on someone more inactive than they are.
I mean, great success on the first day might render my approach irrelevant in this game, but you can't count on every game getting lucky with a loud-mouth the first day. Sometimes that same loud-mouth will be a bad townie.
I don't want to lynch inactives. I want to threaten them with a lynch to the point they are forced to contribute to the game, and then we can start scumhunting. While written information for analysis is the best way to approach scum hunt, as I'm sure both you and mataza will agree with me in, vote patterns are also something you can base scum-hunting on.
I am all for putting pressure on inactive people to step up and provide us with information, but I did not get much support for it last night, so I'll just admit... I'm kind of giving up on that approach, and gonna go with the ammunition I have at hand to get the baddies.
I had a bad read on Gyig, looks like I had a good read on Mataza. I actually thought they were both townies pointing fingers at each other. But yeah, Mataza looks really clean now.
But listen up here:
I'm going to retract my first statement about only analysing the people who did not vote for Giyg. I went back and re-read all his posts, and he's so chaotic and bad, that there is a possibility of the mafia simply throwing him under the bus to gain trust, because he was always going to get lynched anyway.
I'm not going to start pointing fingers just yet, but someone like purplehaze looks really damn safe now after being the deciding vote that got a mafia lynched. It's not far-fetched to think that any smart mafia would consider throwing their useless buddy under the bus to buy safety.
Lastly:
It is important to no end that VisEyes and Mataza leave their thoughts in this thread before day breaks, you two are by fare the most likely mafia targets. Of the townies that actually contributed on day one, myself and Kersha are probably safe, seeing as it'll be easy to convince the town to vote against us. purplehaze is in a weird spot, but I don't think he'll get murdered. Might post your thoughts anyway though.
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@VisceraEyes
So you did not consider that it might be quite obvious that you voted for GiygaS to disguise your own scummyness but knowing that he would not get lynched. And then when I did my "11th hour scummy" change of vote you noticed it too late and accidentally contributed to lynch a fellow scum?
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In case I get killed off before tomorrow which I consider very likely I think people should put pressure on VisceraEyes and see if he breaks because his desire to switch vote from a scum after it was clear that he was going to get lynched is very suspicious to me.
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@prplhz
It's reasonable to assume that my reaction was noob scum-tell. Allow me to explain my thought-process behind what I said.
At the time of your switch, I was in a bad place in the game. I'd been trying to analyze all day, tried posting my thoughts on various people, anything I could to try and help hunt scum. You had posted something which I thought was suspicious, so I analyzed the post. I had clearly asked you to clarify a few inconsistencies in the post, but you just waved them away refusing to answer them. Claiming that I was saying something I wasn't. Add to that Palmar's assertion that everything I was doing was useless, and you could see my frustration.
Now, on to the post in question. Your switch made me imagine two likely scenarios. First, that you were scum and at the last minute you switched your vote knowing that as it was so close, you knew you were hitting GigyaS. Otherwise, you were scum, and you were hitting GigyaS in an attempt to clear you of suspicion when GigyaS flipped red. I decided before I posted that the most likely scenario was the second and left my vote unchanged...as you'll note, I DID post before voting was closed after you switched. I had ample time to switch my vote.
So what you're saying is that I not only outted myself as scum by commenting on your switch, but that I in my noobiness forgot to unvote and save my scummy friend. Is that correct?
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Allow me to offer up another, perhaps more likely scenario. One that doesn't rely on utter noobiness as the basis of its believability.
Revisiting my scumlist we see that I had prplhz, Palmar and GiygaS.
For this example, I'm going to assume you're all three mafia. At any rate, before your switch, we see that you and GiygaS were both voting for Skrammen. Not only does this effectively block the vote for GiygaS, but it allows Palmar to Off-vote (vote for someone NO ONE ELSE is voting for..very scummy behavior at the end of the day) to ensure that even if in the event someone switches last minute, he could swoop in and recast his vote for Skrammen. Good. Great. But then we take into account the fact that A) GiygaS is highly under suspicion of the most active (and most accurate so far) scumhunter, Mataza and B) He's playing bad scum and C) Mafia can converse with each other, it isn't far-fetched to believe that a last-minute switch from inactive Skrammen to obvScum GiygaS would not only clear your name ("See? I voted for scum too!", but pave the way for Palmar to then go on a witch-hunt of those who voted against GiygaS lynch.
"But VE, why wouldn't Palmar just vote for GiygaS himself?" you might be asking...well, if you'll read the rules, the person with the most votes first is the target in the event of a tie...which would've resulted in Skrammen getting lynched anyway.
BOOM HEADSHOT.
GG Maf. Fire away...I don't even NEED to post anymore! Mataza, this is what's happening. They can't kill us both. I suggest Palmar first as he appears to be the brains. prplhz won't know how to cope.
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@VisceraEyes
Your first post after I changed my vote was 3 minutes after the deadline, so no, you did not have time to change your vote. And yes, that is exactly what I am saying. You have already acted silly out of frustration by directly refusing to actively participate in the game anymore. I so not consider it unlikely that my change of vote frustrated you even more as you were too late to change your vote yourself. And really, even if you HAD changed your vote, if Skrammen had flipped green, something I consider very likely, you would have looked even worse.
Now people should ask themselves, in all this frustration, is it not possible that you posted something that might give everybody a clue on your allegiance in this town? Your defense is basically "Do you really think I'd do something that rash and incriminating?", and I have to say; there may be a good chance that you would.
Again, people, I'm not saying that VisceraEyes is a scum, but I am going to encourage everybody to put pressure on him tomorrow. He may break again.
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Alas, I think you make it out too easy.
I on the other hand, am dead shit as shit, unless a certain doctor, who I hope is in the game, is on me. More coming soon.
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Votes cast in the thread before the official closing of votes are still counted as far as I know. At least, that was how I understood it at the time...because I considered changing. But that's irrelevant at this point. I'm going to die before anyone has a chance to vote for me anyway, so you might as well not waste your time and towns by insisting that everyone consider me as a lynch target. I promise you, it's time wasted. Wasting town time is anti-town behavior.
I'm just messin with you. Towns victory is assured, so it doesn't matter at this point.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 19 2011 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Votes cast in the thread before the official closing of votes are still counted as far as I know.
Votes after the deadline are *not* counted, votes at the deadline are.
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@GMarshal Thx for clarification.
@prplhz What that doesn't change is that I thought they did. But obviously, that's unprovable, so I'll stop wasting time debating it.
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First: Analyze prplhz -His tone is very rational, yet he does an emotional response to giygas flipping scum. ("I can´t believe this.") -He looks methodical in his approach and suggests he is a high priority target for the nightkill, even after he has proven to have been pretty much useless up til now. Under that light, he increased his usefulness by voting for Giygas.
Be very wary of him. I don´t have the time to analyze properly.
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@Palmar Why vote for someone no one else in town was voting for? Why not help get rid of the inactive everyone decided was the best target? If not him, why not vote on the obvScum everyone else decided was the best target? Why alone in your vote? That's very suspicious my friend.
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Second: I don´t really think Palmar is scum. He is just very cautious. He hopes we have blue roles to make our life easier and doesn´t want to risk much until then. I can totally get behind that.
Of course no one is ever with 100% certainty innocent. But if he is mafia he is damn good. Much better than I have *ever* seen.
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Mataza, consider his voting pattern. Who votes for someone no one else is voting for? SCUM do.
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@Mataza
He's okay...he's just acting aloof and dismissive...that's NOT an uncommon strategy for Mafia. Like, no amount of analysis is even WORTHY of him noting. In spite of saying you were very helpful to town d1, did he actually mention AGREEING with anything you posted? Did he even quote you ONCE? Or analyze you? He's bandwagoning your INNOCENCE rather than someone else's scumminess.
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Third: I am very suspicious of Karshe. -He referred the fact, that this is "openly a newbie game" multiple times. He wants us to take it easy. -While he did that, he referred also to some more advanced concepts, like OMGUS and Lynch All Liars. -He did a small chainsaw defense for Giygas, blaming me while saying Giygas is town. Had no opinion on Visceras *at all*(Which is kinda hard, because Giygas obviously copied all his behaviour from Viscera). He needs a good explanation for that. Dissect it from Scum logic/logic translation. -He accuses me of going for "noobtown" cred by explaining some more methodical stuff. All the while he did that too.(OMGUS, LAL)
I recommend being very cautious of anyhting he said so far. He either has a horrible read, as he said himself or he is a scum that wants to get easy town cred by saying it´s just a newbie game and explaining how some things work.
A Post by post analysis of every single of his posts will help town greatly in every way. Either he is a caught maf or he is a town with bad intuition.
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Hey vis:
I didn't change my vote because my strategy didn't work, and both the targets that you guys were going for were basically fair game to me. I didn't really care which one you lynched.
How many times do I have to repeat this: I don't want to lynch inactives, I want to use votes to pressure them into action.
On May 18 2011 09:21 VisceraEyes wrote: @Mataza
Keep in mind that Palmar is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of GiygaS and prplhz' innocence.
Here is one of your wrong quotes... I really think it's bad for the town if people keep lying, Only a few posts earlier I had posted this in a conversation with Mataza:
On May 18 2011 02:23 Palmar wrote: if everyone comes into the thread, contributes and makes good analysis of the situation, I will switch my vote to GiygaS and help you get him lynched.
(link to entire post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#145 )
So yeah. You wanted explanation of my posting pattern... there you go. I just didn't really give a shit which one got killed. As I already stated, I couldn't really make much sense of GiygaS posts, so I didn't have a strong red read on him. And Skrammen was just being completely useless... so I wasn't gonna jump in and defend him either.
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My innocent list stands as it is. It´s not as solid as these my probably last 3 posts are. Hope I survive the night.
Btw, Karshe also assumes Viscera is scum, by saying he never gave up fos on me. But Viscera dropped his fos long ago.
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wow, drama drama :D
I have some thoughts and ideas, but they can wait till dawn. Not much else to say, that hasn't been said.
Lets see how the night unfolds
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@Palmar, @Viscera Stop arguing. You are prolly both town.
Vis, if you trust me at all, drop it. I can´t really say much more.
Palmar, I think there are more obvious targets than Vis. You said yourself Vis is a bit random. On the other hand Karshe is calm, collected and utterly wrong. The more I read his post history, the more i am sure.
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DOC ON ME!
In hindsight, everyone suddenly agrees Giygas was obvious. Remember who pushed him? Alone?
To be a little arrogant, my read is maybe the strongest in the game.
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@Mataza
I don't mean to imply that I thought GiygaS was obviously scum...I wasn't absolutely certain of him. I used the term obvScum to indicate that he was highly under suspicion and anyone who wanted to could've easily jumped on the GiygaS Bandwagon of Death.
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On May 19 2011 07:57 Mataza wrote: @Palmar, @Viscera Stop arguing. You are prolly both town.
Vis, if you trust me at all, drop it. I can´t really say much more.
Palmar, I think there are more obvious targets than Vis. You said yourself Vis is a bit random. On the other hand Karshe is calm, collected and utterly wrong. The more I read his post history, the more i am sure.
Don't worry about it, I was merely doing the same thing as I did to you with your cop claim, and with purplehaze with his random doc request.
I want to keep the town honest, because lying is almost never good for the town. It only makes it that much harder to find the really good stuff.
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ebwodp
....at the time. It wasn't a bandwagon until the end. As you pointed out...you were pushing GiygaS alone for a while.
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@Palmar Yes, you're right. I made a mistake in that post. It should have read '...is absolutely certain of prplhz' innocence'...because that you were sure of...you made a big post about it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=9#175
Sorry about that, I was emotional at the time and didn't check my facts.
I'm still wary, but as I trust Mataza's read more than I suspect you IN PARTICULAR (I'm not done on prplhz, regardless of what Mata says lol), I'm dropping you off my Scum-list, to replace you with Karshe.
prplhz, Karshe
Thank you, that is all.
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In all honesty, the only thing that made me suspect you in the first place was A) your refusal to accept anything I wrote as worthy of noting (OMGUS) and B) the way you voted alone at the end of the day. Both of these smell scummy to me, but thus far Mataza has had the strongest reads and he thinks you're green. *shrug*
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On May 19 2011 07:57 Mataza wrote: On the other hand Karshe is calm, collected and utterly wrong.
Haha, this is a great description of how I feel right now.
In regards to your concerns:
On May 19 2011 07:49 Mataza wrote: I am very suspicious of Karshe. -He referred the fact, that this is "openly a newbie game" multiple times. He wants us to take it easy. -While he did that, he referred also to some more advanced concepts, like OMGUS and Lynch All Liars. -He did a small chainsaw defense for Giygas, blaming me while saying Giygas is town. Had no opinion on Visceras *at all*(Which is kinda hard, because Giygas obviously copied all his behaviour from Viscera). He needs a good explanation for that. Dissect it from Scum logic/logic translation. -He accuses me of going for "noobtown" cred by explaining some more methodical stuff. All the while he did that too.(OMGUS, LAL)
I mentioned that it was a noobie game twice that I remember. The first after your math that some didn't understand, and again when a personal insult was used. The "advanced concepts" you referred to aren't all that advanced... in fact, after my play thus far I'm not sure how you could describe me as advanced. I wasn't intending to chainsaw anyone. The only reason I used your name and Giygas' name in the same post--as well as posting my uncertainty regarding Vis--was in direct response to your question here,
On May 17 2011 10:12 Mataza wrote: For the sake of having material, I request Palmar, Hiro Protagonist, Deepblue, Steff, Karshe and Nard to mouth their opinion on whether Mataza, Viscera eyes or Giygas might be mafia.
I was all ready to come home and dissect Viscera's posts but since I lasted posted, Vis has posted some pretty convincing stuff. At this point I'm also unable to put any blame on you, Mataza.
So after my bad reading of Giygas yesterday, at this point I'm kind of at a loss. I'm starting to feel like we're all a group of townies pointing fingers at each other because we're the only ones posting, while the mafia are hiding in the background coming up with their single post of the day.
If I'm put on the chopping block on Day 2 for putting Giygas' name in green, so be it. I'm not able to take it back. I'm just a noob townie who put the wrong name in a hat and all I can do is continue looking for discrepancies. It would help if everyone were actively posting, though.
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And in case you're wondering why I'm guessing I'll be here in Day 2, it's because I will be very, very surprised if it's not Mataza or Viscera who get hit.
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@Karshe
You're not alone dude...I'm sure everyone but Maf will be surprised if one of us doesn't bite it tonight.
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If I get murdered tonight, I'd everyone to follow this link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=14#261 ...and take a good long look. Mataza is one of the strongest players in the game and if he's not hit that means that I'm closer in my estimation than he is. I DOUBT it considering...but don't discount me because of my erratic methodology. Discount me if you think my theories don't hold water.
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When is night over? Shouldn't we be finding someone all bloody and such about now?
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There is still time to go.. I think the people who tried to offvote so that Glygas wouldn't be lynched should be taken into strong consideration for obvious reasons.
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According to the night post, the 24 hours should be up. I guess our hosts are preoccupied!
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lol. Host fail. GMarshal is probably too busy trolling TL Mafia XXXIX.
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Everlasting night...it's like a nightmare I once had...
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Night Post will be coming up shortly, sorry for the delay
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Day 2
Karshe was sitting in the cemetery, quietly praying at the graves of flamewheel91 and Qatol after a long day of raving. As he was looking around the graveyard, he saw by chance the fenced off graves of Liquidia War Veterans. Incensed at the unfair segregation, he ran off in a rage to complain to the grave digger. Unfortunately, in his anger Karshe did not notice an eager Mafioso pushing over Qatol’s tombstone, which promptly fell on top of him, slowly crushing Karshe to death.
Karshe the Vanilla Townie is dead.
Time to lynch someone! Cast your votes. You have 48 hours till the end of day.
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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF........ good luck all!
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Wow. That sure stops me dead in the tracks. Too bad he was actually one of the more active posters.
Still our lurking faction has to speak up today. The show must go on.
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This is surely a surprise to anybody.
I'm headed to work and I will not be back for around 12 hours. But I know what'll be on my mind all day
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@Mataza
"At first i thought I would claim cop openly"....what did you mean by this?
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Why did Karshe die? As someone who I've been targeting heavily until now would probably put it,
This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
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Don´t sweat it. We have no hint why Krashe died. Look at it this way: It is entirely possible that we have a doctor. It is entirely reasonable that said doctor is going to protect either me, you or someone of the other actives. They chose to kill the guy with the horrible read on the reds, Karshe. Then it makes sense, doesn´t it?
Now if that way of thinking is right, the only question is who does think prplhz or palmar get protected and why.
And my first line "I thought about claiming cop...." was nothing in particular. Before this I only played on epcimafia and the sc2 map, both of which only last for an hour or so and revolve heavily around power roles. In both games claiming cop is viable for everyone, townies, scum, real cop, I even saw a doctor claiming cop once. It is incredibly risky of course. It´s still better than saying "hello everyone" in my book.
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Addendum: They prolly chose Karshe because his horrible read makes him the least likely target for the doctor. And that´s kinda ok, since I would lynch our doctor if he went out of his way and protected the least important/active/good looking people.
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No offense intended, Karshe.
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I'd like to say first that this game is incredibly interesting for as few active players as are in it.
Karshe died a terrible death at the hands of some crafty fellows. First, here is every post (save a few fluff posts that literally had no content...if someone calls me out for "Is there a seperate voting thread?" or something equally irrelevant I'm going to be very angry) that Karshe made in the game up until he cast his vote for Skrammen d1. Posts are in spoilers, summaries under spoilers.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 00:56 Karshe wrote: Good morning all.
First post here, I have caught up with the thread.
As others have said, there's no real reason to suspect Mataza yet. The majority of us are fairly new to the game, and Mataza making the first "quality" post shouldn't be considered suspicious. The only thing to watch for is scum posting general tips/math to gain town cred while not actually helping our hunt. And yes, I realize I could qualify under that last statement. =P
Looking forward to scum hunting with you all. Hopefully we'll get lots of posts today and get to know everyone. Very reasonable. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 01:53 Karshe wrote:Inactives are a mixed bag for me. I agree that lynching them isn't the wisest choice because there's a low chance they are mafia... but inactives also irritate me to no end. I understand that RL > TL and things come up, but why join the game if you're not going to play? It just ruins the spirit of the game for me and I have low tolerence/patience for inactives. That said, hopefully we're discussing this for no reason and we'll hear from everyone today. I like this guy already...and I already miss him. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 13:37 Karshe wrote:I am most definitely not getting mod killed, thank you. Just had a busy monday, and when I was on earlier, there weren't too many quality posts yet. I've got caught up, and here are my thoughts. I am most suspicious of Mataza right now. I wouldn't go as far to vote him, yet, but I have my reservations. Since this is openly a noobie game, this was my first thought going into the game: Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 00:56 Karshe wrote: The only thing to watch for is scum posting general tips/math to gain town cred while not actually helping our hunt. And yes, I realize I could qualify under that last statement. =P
and this was one of Mataza's first posts: Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 12:16 Mataza wrote: Small math problem. 12 day1 ly nk 10 day2 ly nk 8 day 3 ly nk 6 day4 So scum is forced to lay really low, if they ever want to stand a chance. To newer players to the game--myself somewhat included--this sounds like a foreign language and some may think, "Man, he knows what he's talking about... I better listen to what this guy has to say." I propose that was Mataza's intention for posting the math so early on. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:49 Mataza wrote: I am curious what these various questions. So far I only gathered one: "Tell us why you´re/you´re not mafia!"
I very well might be mafia, as everyone of you might be mafia too. But I can´t go ahead and tell you my plans before half the people posted, because then these plans wouldn´t work.(Since mafia would know what to do or what not to do.)
About the inactives: Dependant on the number of inactives, it´s not a bad idea to lynch them. Low activity means they aren´t really helping the town and therefore it´s not a big loss. We wouldn´t lose any amount of discussion. But we can´t do that right now, because a) the day isn´t nearly over and b) there are too many.
But people who do not post/do no vote are modkilled at the end of the cycle. One of Mataza's next longer posts, which can be summarized to rephrasing things that have already been said I would argue that even for a noobie game, a lot of this is stating common sense. Yes, we know you could be mafia. That's how the game works. I feel this is another example of gaining town cred while not actually contributing. It looks as though my main argument was also noticed by Giygas (to give credit where credit is due): Show nested quote +On May 16 2011 15:52 GiygaS wrote: Mhm, and you've also mentioned the Mafia's purported strategy, which is to stay under the radar. Something you haven't done. If you wanted someone to go off the path of finding the mafia, you would say that the strategy they would perform would be completely opposite to what you were doing. Also, you were the first one to make basic rules to know HE IS THE MAFIA. I believe that Mataza attempted to put an early notion into newer players heads that mafia will attempt to lay as low as possible, while he himself is a mafia and one of the most active posters. My initial gut feeling thus far is that Giygas is town. I feel as though he has done a great job at generating discussion without having done anything I can point out as shady. I haven't made a decision on VisceraEyes yet, for now he is an active poster and I would personally rather lynch an inactive compared to a helpful/active poster on Day 1, if that's what it comes down to. Sorry to wrap this up short but I haven't eaten dinner yet. I will check in before bed for updates. First actual content post. Mostly suspicious of Mataza. Misread on GiygaS. Still not sure on VisceraEyes. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 01:14 Karshe wrote:I see no reason we should worrying about the game set up on Day 1, since we have no way of knowing what game type we're playing. I, too, questioned Mataza's early cop claim, but was hesitant to bring light to it. I'm not sure I buy your reasoning, and there's always LAL (lynch all liars). I'm not convinced you're mafia yet, but I'll be keeping an eye on your posts. Taking a look at others, I am growing increasingly suspicious of Palmar. Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 00:54 Palmar wrote: I'm more worried about the quiet people, it's only been 13 hours or so, but we're still missing half the town in the action.
If people don't post people don't make mistakes. So please type in a few sentences so we know you're alive Getting easy town cred while not really contributing and just saying, "where is everyone?" Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:50 Palmar wrote: Why would it take effort to create a first post? Even if you say something completely retarded it's fine as long as you have nothing to hide. Barring revealing a blue power role, anything you say in your first post will just be that... a simple first post.
Not contributing. Then, his most eye raising act, he then takes it upon himself to defend Mataza, the town's biggest point of discussion, while pointing a completely random finger away from Mataza. And I mean, he really defends Mataza. My only concern is if both Mataza and Palmar were scum, Palmar wouldn't be defending Mataza so blantantly (and oddly). I'll be keeping an eye on your posts as well. To finish with: I am still not sold on Gigyas being scum, but it may be at this point that I'm just taking Mataza's posts with a grain of salt. I will re-read Gigyas' posts in a bit with an open mind. Suspicious of Palmar, restatement of suspicion of Mataza + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 01:21 Karshe wrote:Also, I wanted to say, Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 22:04 Palmar wrote: @purplehaze... you're an idiot, but you're not scum, or at least you're not an obvious scum. There's no need for that. This a openly a noobie game, many of us are still learning the ropes... there's no need for name calling. All it will do is discourage further posting and create a negative atmosphere. We're all here to have fun lynching mafia, right? What a stand-up guy... + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 03:27 Karshe wrote:Hi Skrammen, We're glad you were able to make it, but we need you to post more information. If you're thinking you will not be able to play as a result of real life, you can request a replacement. Otherwise, we will need you to post more analysis and not just bandwagon... or you risk being lynched as a result of being a non-helpful townie. Warning to Skrammen. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 05:18 Karshe wrote:Not enough discussion today, getting worried. To reiterate what Palmar has said, Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 02:23 Palmar wrote: But I'd rather have to filter through tons of bad information injected by mafia, than having no information at all and just playing a guessing game. and my own stance on Day 1: Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 01:53 Karshe wrote: Inactives are a mixed bag for me. I agree that lynching them isn't the wisest choice because there's a low chance they are mafia... but inactives also irritate me to no end. I understand that RL > TL and things come up, but why join the game if you're not going to play? It just ruins the spirit of the game for me and I have low tolerence/patience for inactives.
I have a low tolerance for inactive players. I am still very suspicious of Mataza, but I would much rather have him in the game and posting consistantly compared to someone who posts once in this thread and once in the vote thread. Lynching an inactive poster may not give us very much information on Day 2, but I believe it will help us in the long run because we will have more information to dissect from active players in future days. So, my intetion is to vote for an inactive as we get closer to night time. I'm allowing more time for those inactive to post some analysis, or request a replacement. Keepin it real. No surprises. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 07:22 Karshe wrote: As for my vote, I still intend to vote for an inactive for reasons I've already stated, but I wanted to give as much time as possible to allow for them to speak up.
I feel like we've got some scum lurking and waiting to put in a last minute vote to bandwagon whoever the town has decided on. More statement of intent to lynch inactives. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 08:21 Karshe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 07:41 Mataza wrote: Karshe may have jumped on the bandwagon so late that it passes by unnoticed, but he said he sounded sure Giygas is town and I am mafia. After he noticed the bandwagon was dead, he instantly dropped suspicion on me and now wants to lynch inactives. By now I am pretty sure that no mafia is inactive, but instead very outspoken. I haven't bandwagon'd anyone, including you. I still have suspicions that you are mafia, I have not dropped anything at all. However, what I have said is: Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 05:18 Karshe wrote: I have a low tolerance for inactive players. I am still very suspicious of Mataza, but I would much rather have him in the game and posting consistantly compared to someone who posts once in this thread and once in the vote thread.
Lynching an inactive poster may not give us very much information on Day 2, but I believe it will help us in the long run because we will have more information to dissect from active players in future days.
I would rather vote an inactive who isn't contributing anything to the fun/game at all, rather than someone (you) who I believe to be shady but at least is actively participating. I have already stated why: we may have less information on Day 2, but more information in the future. To answer purplehaze's question from earlier, if I had to pick a Day 2 lynch right now, it would be Mataza. I feel like you're trying to derail every lynch attempt, and you yourself have said: Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 02:01 Mataza wrote: Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation. I still question your motives as well. So far you have been quoted as saying "Mafia will try to lurk!" while being the most active poster, and now you're saying, "Mafia are bandwagoning! By the way, I have never bandwagoned!" *wink wink nudge nudge* I am about to leave for work, I will vote for an inactive in 30 minutes when I get home if they have not posted yet. Defending his decision to Mataza, reinforcing his suspicion in the process. At this point I'm surprised he never FoS'd Mataza. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:05 Karshe wrote: As I have been indicating all day: voting Skrammen, who has been inactive for the majority of the game except for a single bandwagon post which helped nothing.
##Vote: Skrammen The inactive he ultimately chose.
It doesn't take but a quick glance to notice a theme. Obviously he was targeted by the mafia for being to harsh on inactives! Wait.....no............
He was suspicious of Mataza the entire day! He never let up on him, not even after I released my FoS from him. Also was suspicious of Palmar, but only posts once so I can't speak to the intensity of his suspicion.
....to be continued...
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Now allow me to muse for a while.
Mataza has possibly the strongest stance in the town. He single-handedly (with the help of some votes from his friends) rid the town of the awful scum GiygaS. He's one of the most active posters in the game. He has a fanclub whose president is Palmar.
I have one of the weakest. I broke under pressure. I've been making horrible reads and outrageous accusations throughout d and n 1. My only ally against my main opponent at the beginning of d1 was GiygaS. I......touch myself at night.
Now...hang with me here.
Mafia chose to kill Karshe. They CHOSE him. They weren't limited by doubt. It's true, there could still be a doctor or cop or both in this game. But between Mataza and myself, doctor was preoccupied. So they eliminated the next biggest threat. Not prplhz who was suspicious of me. Not Palmar who was suspicious of DeepBlu2. Certainly not stefftastiq, the inactive. They chose Karshe. Why? Because at the end of the day, he was the only one left standing against Mataza.
This might come as a shock to many of you, and I can assure you, Karshe dying came as a shock to me. But I suspect that Mataza is playing us all like a freaking drum. I think it's been part of his plan all along to position himself into a leadership role by sacrificing one of his own so he can, unfettered, pick us off during the day as well as night.
FoS: Mataza
My next guess is that either Mataza or his scum buddy will claim cop. Be VERY wary of this.
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Now the town is in a precarious position. Do they trust in their "hero" Mataza? Do they lynch the very savior of Day 1? I say to you now that there will be attempts to discredit me. Palmar's defense is obviously dismissal. He likely won't even comment on my accusation as it's not worth his time. I suspect Mataza will fiercely defend himself as he did Day 1. But keep this in mind always. It made no sense for Mafia to murder Karshe unless he was onto something. He was moderately active, but as far as the general flow of town, was mostly unhelpful in taking down GiygaS. The only reason I can find in his posts is his opposition to Mataza.
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This is the best post you've created in the thread so far VisEyes. I will refrain from quoting Karshe as to not increase the length of the thread uselessly. I want to have a look at the Karshe-s death from a slightly different angle.
Your post analyses: What did Karshe say that could've gotten him killed
I will now analyse: What does Karshe's death accomplish for the mafia
The state of the town:
After GiygaS got lynched last night, there was an interesting situation in the town. We got a correct lynch on the first day, but sadly, the mafiosi that got lynched was pretty much... insane.
Let's have a look at how this death affects the active players:
VisEyes:
Karshe was on his short-list of suspects. Viseyes still strongly suspects me (Palmar) and Purplehaze. It is interesting to note that Karshe was not the only target VisEyes and Mataza agreed on. They also agreed that Purplehaze was suspicious.
Did the mafia intend to break up the combination of VisEyes/Mataza?
Mataza:
Currently Mataza is pretty well trusted in the town. If he's playing mafia then he's at least being very subtle about it. But he was very convinced Karshe was mafia during the night. Mataza also fos'd purplehaze during the night.
Did the Mafia want to discredit Mataza by proving him wrong?
Purplehaze:
Purplehaze was the one that sealed the deal on the GiygaS kill. This is important because no matter the fact that it could be a bluff, it should give him some credibility. Karshe's death did not change much for Purplehaze aside from the fact that he is now the prime suspect agreed upon by VisEyes and Mataza
Did the mafia want to set Purplehaze up?
Palmar:
As for myself, I got fos'd by Karshe early in day1. I was the only active player along with Karshe that did not vote to kill GiygaS. Mataza had already cleared me of his suspicions, but Karshe's death proved that he was wrong there. I am not stupid, thus I can clearly see all the arrows pointing towards myself at this point.
Did the mafia want to set me up?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here is the big thing. Karshe was all for lynching and pushing inactives. Please note the pattern that Karshe's death discredited every active player in town. The more I think about it the more I understand what a brilliant way of causing confusion in the town it was to kill Karshe.
Just imagine what you can do with one night-kill
Discredit Mataza Break up Mataza/VisEyes Paint a target on Purplehaze Paint a target on Palmar
I'd take this opportunity with open hands if I was the mafia.
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@Palmar Oh, in my excitement, I forgot one thing.
I retract my FoS: prplhz. The more I read Karshe's posts, the more of prplhz I got to read too. While his switch WAS suspicious, his reasoning for it appeared to be logical and sincere. I assume he still suspects me and I'll have some 'splaining to do later on...but I no longer suspect him. Just thought I'd correct you there.
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Right, sorry.
My analysis still stands.
I would like to see how Karshe's death has negatively affected the following players:
Wunder Hiro Protagonist Nard Stefftastiq DeepBlu2 Skrammen
Truth to be told. We know very little about them. I am going to try to find time to analyse each and every one of those during the coming day.
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Shouldn't take long. That's the long list of inactives.
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Here is the thing VisEyes.
Your theory is based on the assumption that the night kill was simply used to kill whomever was the biggest threat to the mafia at the point.
While essentially correct, it's such obvious logic to do that. The mafia knows, just as well as we do, that if player a FOS player b, and then player a dies during the night, player b immediately comes under suspicion.
Like... it's inevitable.
If Karshe FoS's Mataza and myself, and then he dies. Isn't it obvious that both of us will immediately be under fire from the town?
Put yourself on the other side. If someone accused you in day1 and you were mafia. Wouldn't you think killing him was a bit too obvious? Wouldn't you think that as soon as he died people would go back and read all his posts, only to find that he was going after you?
I don't buy it. Karshe's death was no accident. It was carefully chosen to cause maximum confusion in the town.
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On May 19 2011 19:05 VisceraEyes wrote:Shouldn't take long. That's the long list of inactives.
Do you not see why I have a problem with that? Do you not understand why it bothers me to no end that we don't have any information to go on?
How on earth will we prove those guys scum, when nothing of value has been said?
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I took a cue from Palmar and tried to figure out what Karshe's death accomplished for the mafia.
What I found was the obvious. My initial reaction. While I can't in good conscience retract my FoS: Mataza[red] due to the striking evidence I uncovered...I'm forced to reopen my original scumlist and FoS: prplhz and Palmar.
From my perspective, either Palmar and Mataza as my latest theory posits are working together or [red]Palmar and prplhz are working together as my previous theory posits.
Because it's impossible yet to determine which is the case, there is a common element which is clear at this moment.
##Vote Palmar
I'd like to hear from Mataza and hear what he has to say.
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Suddenly my straw houses aren't so inconsequential...it's funny how that works out.
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Do you really wanna go back and have a look at your arguments from day one? Do you remember that big post you created against purplehaze? Your main argument in this post was that he agreed with Mataza.
I wasn't suspicious of Purplehaze at the point, but I really wanted clarification on why he asked for a doctor protection out of nowhere?
Your argument at this point is:
Purple defended Mataza = Purple Scum I defended Mataza = Palmar Scum Mataza Defended me = Mataza Scum
One thing is pretty damn sure, not all of us are scum.
Thing is, you can read whatever you want from any of the three of us. You can go back and find "scummy" stuff from any of us. Hell, I can go back and find scummy stuff on you. But I don't think you're scum. I just think that you tunnel-vision way too much on the few people actually playing the game.
What you cannot do is find "scummy" stuff from everyone else playing this game.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
I may have stepped too deep here, the level of analysis is quite mindboggling. I'd love to contribute, but I'm not sure how or where to start, even after reading a lot of the newbie guides... One thing that can be said though is that VisEyes, Palmar and Mataza are all very active, and I do believe at least one of them is Mafia.
Sadly, I don't have much proof and I'm not sure how all of you guys have to time to sift through and analyze everyone's posts :< what does FoSing someone actually do, other than make your suspicions more concrete?
I will try to monitor this situation more, but I think a lot of my opinions are siding with VisEyes right now, though I'm not sure why.
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It's only considered tunneling if people are offering up reasonable and logical alternatives and the person in question isn't seeing them or doesn't care.
I have nothing more to go on, so I'm not tunneling. I'm working with what I have. Which is considerable.
If you want to get really technical, my main problem with prplhz was A) He tried to discredit me saying I pulled a 180 where Mataza was concerned, stopped focusing on him and voted for an inactive. In the VERY SAME POST he proclaimed that he himself was no longer suspicious of Mataza and that he would, in all likelihood, cast his vote for an inactive. Not only that, but that post was very VERY vague on where he stood where Mataza was concerned...he said that it was bad that people stopped focusing on him, but then in the same breath said that he was no longer suspicious of him. When I tried to call him out on it, that's when you did your little drama about the PRs and how uncareful he is and how useless I am. B) He scum-switched at 9:59. I don't care that he did it and ultimately landed on a scum. The point is he, along with 5 others, decided together that the best lynch for the night was inactive Skarrem...and at 9:59 he betrayed those he sided with and chose to lynch GiygaS, an active player. C) General scumminess. This is less prominent and is ultimately subjective, so I won't try and explain that...it's in the eye of the beholder obviously.
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FoS = finger of suspicion
If I FoS you I'm letting it known that I believe you're mafia.
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@Wunder
FoS means you suspect someone, and you're showing the whole town. You're flying your finger flippantly forward with frenetic fervor.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
@Palmar: But what does that entail? Does it just mean that everyone knows you think that X is mafia? Is that all it does?
Also, I agree with VisEyes that all his calls, though a bit irrational, are somewhat based from the information in front of him. I do think that purplehaze could be suspicious, and that him and the other mafioso turned GiygaS in, in an attempt to throw a few people off their tail. I currently have my eye of both Palmar and PurpleHaze
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really interesting day/night turnout.
have some free time now to investigate a bit, so here it goes:
hiro protagonist: has a medium amount of posts/content on day 1 with a reasonable townie logic. defends viscera during the early FoS'ing between matazar and viscera. he keeps being slightly suspicious of matazar and offered imo the best reasoning for voting on day 1
gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen in light of the last post by viscera we should not forget about the vote on skrammen for a possible read on matazar. least suspicious for me atm.
deepblu2: not that active. first posts were pretty meager. kinda suspicious of him, so im gonna quote all posts after the short ones with no content and write my opinion.
I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. very careful wording with his suspicion. not too much to say about that post
Alright. Well I guess I'll make another post but I'm new at this. I just wanted to make the 2nd post saying I was here because you were waiting for a post and I only had a minute to write it so sorry about that.
I am not a band wagon/front-runner sir, and I am most definately not mafia as since Day 1 I have been secretly observing people's actions. Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence. with this post it starts getting interesting. he posts directly after being accused by palmar. a lot of excuses early on, the lamest one being that he cannot be mafia as hes been secretly observing other peoples actions. he retracts his suspicion and is 100% certain of glygas, pretty early on. i have to admit im analyzing after reading visceras big post about matazar sacrificing glygas to get a leader role going. this would fit in perfectly if mafia decided between this and his post before to sacrifice glygas as he was playing too obvious.
next post is his vote on glygas, then a quick comment on the successful lynch of glygas. last post until now is the following: + Show Spoiler +There is still time to go.. I think the people who tried to offvote so that Glygas wouldn't be lynched should be taken into strong consideration for obvious reasons. states the obvious and puts the focus on the people not voting for glygas.
now if the biggest of em all conspiracies is true and glygas was in fact a sacrificial lamb, we can be pretty sure that we wont find any mafia on the offvoters list (and im not saying that just because im an offvoter :p ) anyways, my conclusion: pretty suspicious (even though he had the proper read on glygas), might be just a mafia newb though.
prplhz : so many posts.. claims hes completely new to mafia and posts really nice content afterwards. is suspicious of matazar in the beginning and focuses on him trying to get a leadership role without really accusing anyone, which is bad for the town. also is suspicious of me for my post about 1st post might not be posted in the first few hours of day1 ;( he also had a nice read on viscera & giygas turning on each other, with at least one of them being scum. he first voted skrammen, but what made him the day 1 hero is his last minute switch to giygas which led to his lynch. this makes the whole giygas-sacrifice story either less believable, more lucky for mafia or he himself is mafia. O_O after day1 is over he's warning of viscera, who is kind of a weird guy to analyze.. anyway, without any proper reasoning behind it, i still believe hes one of the good guys rather than being mafia.
Palmar: first posts contain no real value, restates the current situation at that time and wants inactives to post. also didnt like my post about 1st posts taking a while :D then he takes a strong stance on matazar being inactive "innocent as new-born baby" - which he revokes later on. skimming through the rest of his (huge amount of) posts, he has a pretty reasonable stance on giygas during all the time. first unsure of him being bad mafia or noob town, he wants to keep him even in case that he's mafia to let him make more mistakes. after the lynch he is quick to analyze that he might be indeed a sacrifice to gain trust and revokes his focus on offvoters. after a quick defense against viscera who goes apeshit on him for changing his mind there were no more posts.
im gonna take a break from analyzing here, this took longer then i expected and im far from done.. i will try to post my analysis of the other ppl in this daycycle. already fearing matazars and visceras analysis O_O so many posts.. anyway, keep in mind i read visceras day2 post of being suspicious of matazar just before and i only analyzed by reading all single posts, not the complete thread again and relied on my memory from following the thread earlier..
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You guys are really discussing a lot :-)
What I need to decide for myself is if the first day scum takeout was a lucky shot or an action on behalf of good reasoning - I'm not sure, especially after reading all the posts from the night.
if the next actions are based on who would gain from the mafia and the kill was random - the assumptions also would be random?
but if the scumkill on d1 was correctly executed - whos 'main opponent' in the discussion did get taken out?
Im also sorry for few posts, but you guys really are tearing the posts here apart - and its not always that much to add on - and to see the big lines of 'whos following who' I probably need another vote!
Looking forward to the analysis of my posts
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holy fk - so many new posts while i was writing my 1st big post with some of them (Palmar's especially) making me think again..
wonder how to keep up with the analysis on everyone on this rate (and yes, this is a pun to wunder lol)
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That's FoS Wunder
Instead of writing "I currently have my eye on both Palmar and PurpleHaze" you could've written "FoS on Palmar and PurpleHaze".
I think I've made my stand clear. I am not comfortable with the view that we only have to take a look at the outspoken players in order to find scum. But VisEyes seems pretty zealous in his witch hunt, so I'm not going to argue any more with him. He has at least shown the willingness to change his opinions in the past, which is in my opinion a good thing.
My time is better spent trying to analyse what little information we have on the remaining sheep in the game.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
@Nard: pretty nice post, and... pretty bad pun I agree somewhat with your analysis, however I doubt a lot of the inactive people would be mafia, especially since reading the newbie guide one would assume mafioso to be active, rather than inactive.
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Wouldnt the mafia want to be active players, so they would seem as town - tho with bad intensions?
At least some of them - silent killers vs loudmouth misdirectionleaders ?
This game requires so much thinking ;-)
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I also agree with the viewpoint that Mafia are going to be active rather than inactive. As Mataza pointed out VERY early in the game (and very pointedly too), it's a common strategy for scum to lie low. However, this town has been taking a VERY aggressive posture toward inactives (against ALL my urging)...logic would dictate that scum would NOT hide in the inactives. I'm taking Palmar's stalwart insistence that the remaining scum will be inactive as an attempt to derail the town's hunt for scum.
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@stefftastiq
The mafia want to fit in.
If the town is quiet, the mafia wants to be quiet. If the town is loud, the mafia wants to be loud.
My initial focus on getting everyone talking is that it's easier to spot loud mafia in a loud town, than quiet mafia in a quiet town. Obviously there are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
@Palmar: Oh. Ok That makes sense then. FoS on Palmar and PurpleHaze
@VisEyes: I agree. Palmar's argument and evidence against you have been somewhat shakey, though I'd have to go through and analyze it word for word ><
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@Palmar
Witch hunt, huh? Back with the dismissive defense then. That's cool. Your inconsistent behavior and attempts to derail the town's search for scum are duly noted and will be reflected on your PERMANENT record. Whilst you're plotting your next device to discredit or dismiss me, I'll be actively searching for your cohort.
@Town
All you need to do is go back through Palmar's posts leading up to the vote d1, note his attitude toward me when he doesn't consider me a threat. He barely even mentions me, other than to say that my posts are useless, straw houses that could be blown over with an inkling of analysis. Next note his tone after my analysis. He makes sure to note that it's my best post yet, but then tells me why it's utterly wrong.
It may be a stretch to ask for your trust at this point, but if you feel as I do, that Palmar's behavior is suspicious at best, destructive at worst, then I urge you to go back and take a look at his posts.
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Thanks VisEyes. The best way to prove you wrong is for people to read what you're basing your argument on.
I promised to go hunt the scum instead of spending time arguing with VisEyes. I have done this now and I think I may be on scum trail.
[r]Hiro Protagonist[/r]
On May 17 2011 02:02 hiro protagonist wrote:good morning team. first timer here. I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me!
This is his first post. It contains nothing of value but some pointers about being new. There is no reason to state you're new to the game after it's started, but many other people in this game did so. I'm not going to get locked up on that.
On May 17 2011 02:31 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:02 hiro protagonist wrote:good morning team. first timer here. I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me! What do you think of the whole inactive debate? I think first day we should give them a break, but as they are more and more inactive we may want to infer scummyness. Also, its boring when people don't actually play :-P
This is a quote by the confirmed mafia in the game. His posting style was really damn random so there isn't much to read from it. But notice how friendly his style is toward his fellow mafia?
On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves...
Another fluff post. Not much to read from this.
On May 17 2011 12:23 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, here are my thoughts so far,
the first two people I gonna talk about are the ones i have the most read on/talked the most o far:
VisceraEyes: He was the most active in the first few pages, with most of his post wanting simply for all active players to say hi. Also mentioning not to take suspicions of one another as a bad thing. I can agree with this line of logic, as it will foster a more friendly town, and get in on the scum hunting. His FoS of Mataza looks more like a call for discussion then an actual accusation. my worry is that he is almost TOO town, and is a likely prime hit for Mafia, unless of course he IS Mafia.
Mataza: considered the most suspicious as of right now, and with good reasoning. His first post was one of feinting a cop role. and Has been very Defensive initially when VisceraEye ask a question. Then he points the finger right back at VisceraEyes. after that he claims that he "just wanted to see how you would react". However he made a good post about how he wants to talk about what everyone else thinks, and his post are in the vein of scumhunting (when his not busy defending himself). not sure what to think of him tbh.
Next up GiygaS, nord, Palmar,:
These 3 have the most posts with the least amount of Analysis. most likely town wanting to hang low or wait and see before going into to much discussion. GiygaS has done the most in getting discussion going, expesialy around what VisceraEye and Mataza have been saying. not alot to go on.
prplhz: quite at first but then a solid post with good analysis.
Deepblue, Steff, Karshe: still need to here more from them. deepblue has gotten in pretty late with just a one liner. gonna watch to see if he is gonna just slide under the modkill, as there are still some inactives, and is laying low(as in acting scummy)
thats it for now.
Ah finally, the first post where he provides real analysis. Granted it's very "safe". He doesn't point any fingers and he doesn't put his neck out there. Both the long analysis he gives are inconclusive.
Then I bolded a part where he congratulates Giyg for getting people to talk. By this point almost everyone else was getting fed up with the spam.
On May 18 2011 09:05 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, LOTS to go on here, gonna give my take on things:
The General feeling for the first day started like this: the town began giving intro post that most had no content. the exception to this is of course Mataza, who kinda claimed Cop, and then retracted it.( I still do not like is explanation). the first three people to really get the ball rolling where ViscaraEyes, GiygaS, and Mataza. Of the three, I liked VisEyes approach the most, and Mataza's the least. but these 3 started talking, there still talking, and its leading somewhere. the way I feel about it is the longer they talk, the long one will slip up, and for me that does not make them A high priority lynch.
Is one of them Mafia? man it sure looks like it.
the next list of people include me: Hiro, Karshe, Palmar, Prplhz, and nard. Of this group, Prplhz and Karshe have had the most helpful post in my eyes. Palmar and nard mostly made some general post about the situation. Im leaving me out because thats a job for someone else.
Where does this leave me? I starting to look at inactives to vote for. but which one?
The only one I feel right now that would be an ok vote would be Skrammen, and heres why. the only post by Skrammen is one of agreeing with Mataza, apparently for no reason, ether he is a terrible Maffia, or a terrible townie.
Mataza, I want to believe your town, but the way you go about playing just rubs me a bit. I LOVE that you are taking swings at people, but as soon as some one wants to have a disscusion, you ether turn your finger on them, or call them a Bandwaggoner. I also dont like that almost every defense you say "I just wanted to see how you would react." that might be true, but it leaves me with no read on you...
what would we get if we voted Skrammen? if he flips town, we got a good reason to trust Mataza. If he flips scum, well, Mataza has some explaining to do...
will decide in a bit, to give more inactives time to post
Surprisingly good post, considering his earlier post history. He wants to vote for Skrammen on completely logical basis. There is no arguing with the fact that at this point Skrammen wasn't being useful to the town.
But the content of this post is really just... "I'm going to say intelligent things that make look pro-town, without actually taking a conclusive action"
Note that he doesn't stick his neck out far enough to actually cast a vote against Skrammen...
On May 18 2011 09:48 hiro protagonist wrote: gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen
Alright, this is where he finally casts his vote. His reasoning is similar to mine but there is a big... no... huge difference in the methodology. Which is what felt so alarming to me.
Hiro wants to lynch Skrammen because it's safe.
I want to threaten to lynch inactives to get them to post. (once again I refer to my promise of switching a vote toward Giyg if we got everyone posting).
The entire point of voting inactives is not to lynch them, it's to get them to defend themselves. Hiro just... ignores that and goes straight for the kill. Hopefully saving his partner in crime.
This is alarming.
This is incriminating.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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lol that should have of course been
Hiro Protagonist
and my vote should have been bolded:
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
Sorry about that.
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@Palmar You've said often that you want to THREATEN to lynch inactives...yet your actions speak otherwise. It's easy to promise something. However, as we saw on d1, everyone ended up posting and everyone ended up voting. And you still voted for an inactive. Not only that, but an inactive that no one else in town was targeting. So you not only failed to deliver on your promise, but you admittedly INTENTIONALLY voted against the rest of town. Your reason? "I was okay with either one of them dying."
"But everyone's post was useless and I wanted ANALYSIS...I failed to deliver because the conditions were not met"
It seems to me that everyone's posts are useless in your eyes. Everyone, that is, except people that agree with you. So what you really MEANT by that promise was "I'll switch my vote when I'm satisfied that everyone is posting to my exacting specifications of activity"...or in other words, "I'll switch my vote when I'm damned good and ready".......or never as your actions have indicated. My guess is that you never REALLY intended to switch your vote, unless something ruined your plan. But that's just speculation.
Your move sir.
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You can speculate all you want. I mean, it's clear that you really took it close to heart when I dismissed your attacks on purplehaze, so your accusations are influenced by the fact that you simply don't like me.
I meant to stop arguing with you...
Look at the situation from my point of view. Skrammen was under heavy fire and he was about to get lynched, yet he hadn't provided any solid analysis or even attempted to reason.
He knew why he was getting lynched, and he knew why he was getting lynched. Yet he failed to contribute anything.
Bandwagoning him would have been against my methodology. I don't want to lynch inactives.
Voting for GiygaS would also have been against my methodology, I want to use votes to force posting. GiygaS didn't need any encouragement to post.
I have no illusion that I will be able to convince you that you're wrong. You have made up your mind, and anything I say will be twisted in your mind because you're reading my posts in the mindset I am scum.
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@Palmar Heh...Hiro Protagonist. Of the inactives, this guy has appeared to me to be the most rational and analytical. It stands to reason that he would be your vote. His point regarding Skrammen IS valid you know...Skrammen DID bandwagon-vote for GiygaS...and he was UTTERLY absent until an hour before voting was closed. Let me guess - not getting any scummy reads from this guy I suppose, right?
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All of my opinions and theories are based on my analysis of the situation...I don't dislike you, as I don't know you. I didn't appreciate the comments you made to prplhz, but it's a far-shot to claim that my entire argument is based on simply 'Vis doesn't like me'. I've laid out all the facts and done the research. This is far more than I can say for you. EVERYTHING you've said from d1 can be grouped into 2 general catagories: "Why Inactives Are Bad for the Town" and "Why Everyone In Town Should Do The Opposite of What They Think They SHOULD Do"
It's pretty apparent that you're now grasping at straws to save yourself, so I won't waste time trying to convince you of why you're coming off as very VERY guilty to me anymore. I'll focus instead on trying to find your accomplice.
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On May 19 2011 21:41 Palmar wrote: Look at the situation from my point of view. Skrammen was under heavy fire and he was about to get lynched, yet he hadn't provided any solid analysis or even attempted to reason.
He knew why he was getting lynched, and he knew why he was getting lynched. Yet he failed to contribute anything.
First of all, the absence of any kind of defensive posts at that point was simply because by the time I realized I was under fire, you had already moved on and lynched Giygas. The day cycle ends at 3 in the morning for me, and it happened rather quickly.
I am a bit curious as to the reason why. I do not believe the mafia would benefit from my death, as I was rather inactive and I dident really pose any threat to them. I think it is simply because its the least risky for the town. I do not believe Hiro to be a mafia at this point.
Ill be back with some actual content when I get come. There's an ocean of stuff to go through.
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The prodigal lynch candidate of Day 1 returns. I eagerly anticipate your analysis my friend...you narrowly avoided dying Day 1. Let not your stroke of luck be in vain.
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On May 19 2011 21:58 VisceraEyes wrote: All of my opinions and theories are based on my analysis of the situation...I don't dislike you, as I don't know you. I didn't appreciate the comments you made to prplhz, but it's a far-shot to claim that my entire argument is based on simply 'Vis doesn't like me'. I've laid out all the facts and done the research. This is far more than I can say for you. EVERYTHING you've said from d1 can be grouped into 2 general catagories: "Why Inactives Are Bad for the Town" and "Why Everyone In Town Should Do The Opposite of What They Think They SHOULD Do"
It's pretty apparent that you're now grasping at straws to save yourself, so I won't waste time trying to convince you of why you're coming off as very VERY guilty to me anymore. I'll focus instead on trying to find your accomplice.
Cool, I think it's good that we two just back off each other and let the town decide. It's not beneficial for anyone that two townies shout foul at each other while the scum sits back and relaxes.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Well, Mataza has been particularly quiet today, hopefully we'll see some analysis from him tomorrow, but I will save my vote till then. For now, I retract my FoS from PurpleHaze. There is still a FoS on Palmar and will probably be till the end of the day.
Also of note, VisceraEyes is defending HiroProtagonist, calling him rational and analytical. I think we should note that down depending on who gets lynches tomorrow, as VisEyes could still very well be a scum manipulating the town.
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United States22154 Posts
bleh, sorry for vanishing yesterday, stuff came up, taking care of any bookkeeping/stuff I didn't do now
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Yeah, I know I'm a pretty quiet person. I'm more of a guardian, a watchful protector, gazing upon the wretched, protecting the weak. I am, Deepblu2. I know I don't post very much but I like to keep things simple and clean. Anyone who tried to offvote Glygas is a threat and should be considered as one,
hiro protagonist Wunder nard
I'm not going to vote anyone yet but I am really only looking at these three people.
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Alright, so I don't get modkilled unjustly. Mataza is very suspicious but at the same time, judging by his posts, he's probably cop. Hiro gave an explanation how he screwed up and was an error on his part to offvote Glygas. Wunder and Nard haven't really given an indepth explanation so I don't know why people aren't focusing on them more. I do think there is a chance that the Mafia voted for Glygas not to be suspicious but I think it's less likely. I honestly don't know what else I can say as it takes time to analyze people's post efficently. Notice I posted scarcely but I was the first to vote Glygas(I think). I'm taking my time and just waiting until everyone has their thoughts out.
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On May 20 2011 00:54 DeepBlu2 wrote: Hiro gave an explanation how he screwed up and was an error on his part to offvote Glygas.
Could you provide a link to this explanation. I re-read from the lynch, but really couldn't find it.
Are you perhaps confusing Nard with Hiro? Because Nard created a pretty substantial post with his thoughts.
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On May 20 2011 01:05 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 00:54 DeepBlu2 wrote: Hiro gave an explanation how he screwed up and was an error on his part to offvote Glygas. Could you provide a link to this explanation. I re-read from the lynch, but really couldn't find it. Are you perhaps confusing Nard with Hiro? Because Nard created a pretty substantial post with his thoughts.
Hm....It appears you are correct. I shall continue searching then. Nard did post a substantial post, indeed, not very defensive which I would have liked to see, but definately substantial. I don't really suspect you, Palmer, as I understand your reasoning behind voting me because I was quiet which can be suspicious obviously, and fully understand your reasoning. I'll look back and analyze every post of Hiros and Wunders, i'm sure I can dig up something.
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@DeepBlu2
What do you think about the rash murder of Karshe? Any ideas about who might be behind it?
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Oh wow. Vis eyes is spinning and changing direction like a magnet taped to a ventilatorblade. I am x posts away from a policy lynch against Vis, where x is when I get too annoyed.
Here is the thing: Some are reading too much into Karshes death. We might as well hunt for mafia in GMarshal´s posts. My point here is, the mafia is as uncertain about the setup as we are. They fear a good doctor and they fear a good cop. And that´s why they maybe don´t kill the people they want to actually kill.
Btw, I am considering a very risky move. It would shed some light on an active player, but also guarantee his death night 2 if he is inno or day3 when he is scum. If I´m wrong you will probably hate me. On the bright side, no mislynch possible.
Would you consider it to be worth it?
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That's okay Mataza - you go ahead and cast your idiot vote against me for trying to analyze. We'll see how far that gets you.
Judging from your highly hostile response to my accusation, it would appear that I've struck a nerve.
Stay tuned...
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I'd like to point out that Mataza is now threatening to lynch me for annoying him....by analyzing and posting my theories. I've seen power corrupt, but I wasn't aware that being right about scum one time qualified one to presumptuously vote for the whole town...on the basis of one's patience for other people.
Report coming soon.
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I skimmed Giygas posts again, since I have a much easier time reading him. The only thing I can take away from that, is he got genuinely nervous because of deepblu´s accusation. That was one of his last posts with any content, too. His mates probably told him to be silent after that. Just a hunch of mine. My read on Giygas is the only thing I trust right now.
On a side note, inactivity becomes a problem again. As much as I hate to, but I think a policy lynch might be needed.
People post. If you have nothing else, post your gut feeling. Sincerety is at least tell. Also be critical and use your own brain .
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Vis, calm down. Look at your own posts, you are hysterical and your posts contain more red sprinkles than a butcher convention.
You are all over the place, switching your fos, announcing to have solved the game and then switching again. Stop posting any little thought you have. Post bigger and better ones.
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I'm no longer answering to you Mataza. Feel free to vote for me if you don't like that. It will only solidify what I already suspect.
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Mataza -
There's one easy way to settle this. Join me in trying to get Palmar lynched tonight. You mentioned you were suspicious of him. Well, I'm 100% on this guy. I'm asking you to trust me as I trusted you in lynching GiygaS. We did a great thing d1. We can do it again if you'll just trust me. To use your initial logic, we still have available to us 3 mislynches. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly take the second mislynch as you'll then have AMPLE information to clear the rest of the Maf.
This is a favor, and I'm asking you, PLEADING with you to join me in this.
And before you use this to reason against doing it, refusing won't make me auto-FoS you or anything. No strings attached.
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@Mataza:
Being wrong is not a crime. I mean... I failed day one when I said exactly the same thing about GiygaS, but I still stand by my notion that people who post frantically don't need to be policy lynched. And VisEyes is obviously trying a bit harder than GiygaS was.
I mean, I already stated, there is plenty of things that point towards both myself and purplehaze, I refer to my analysis of what the death of Karshe accomplished for the mafia. I wish Vis would look beyond the obivous, but alas... he's annoying, but not dangerous. At least for now.
I will not support a policy lynch on VisEyes.
@DeepBlu2:
Here's the thing. Your calm and cool response to my accusations last night, followed by your insight in voting GiygaS very early on has led me to believe you are one of my safest bets for a townie in this game. I am very much looking forward to hearing your analysis. Both the targets you intended to analyse are of great interest. I already found very suspicious stuff about Hiro, and I'm curious if you reach the same conclusion.
Please continue posting actively.
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ok guys, slow down.
We lynched a scum on the very first night. We have the upper Hand. im gonna read up on post and come back with a report.
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There was this risky play I intended to do. I think I´ll scratch that.
It´s way harder than yesterday though. Suddenly there are all these people posting :D But at least town is acting on its own now. I will make a longer post when and if I can make a good contribution.
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So, I've been reading through Hiro's posts.
+ Show Spoiler +Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... This is one of his first posts. Note that he is very eager to start scumhunting. He cares little about inactives.
+ Show Spoiler +Ok, here are my thoughts so far,
the first two people I gonna talk about are the ones i have the most read on/talked the most o far:
VisceraEyes: He was the most active in the first few pages, with most of his post wanting simply for all active players to say hi. Also mentioning not to take suspicions of one another as a bad thing. I can agree with this line of logic, as it will foster a more friendly town, and get in on the scum hunting. His FoS of Mataza looks more like a call for discussion then an actual accusation. my worry is that he is almost TOO town, and is a likely prime hit for Mafia, unless of course he IS Mafia.
Mataza: considered the most suspicious as of right now, and with good reasoning. His first post was one of feinting a cop role. and Has been very Defensive initially when VisceraEye ask a question. Then he points the finger right back at VisceraEyes. after that he claims that he "just wanted to see how you would react". However he made a good post about how he wants to talk about what everyone else thinks, and his post are in the vein of scumhunting (when his not busy defending himself). not sure what to think of him tbh.
Next up GiygaS, nord, Palmar,:
These 3 have the most posts with the least amount of Analysis. most likely town wanting to hang low or wait and see before going into to much discussion. GiygaS has done the most in getting discussion going, expesialy around what VisceraEye and Mataza have been saying. not alot to go on.
prplhz: quite at first but then a solid post with good analysis.
Deepblue, Steff, Karshe: still need to here more from them. deepblue has gotten in pretty late with just a one liner. gonna watch to see if he is gonna just slide under the modkill, as there are still some inactives, and is laying low(as in acting scummy)
thats it for now.
This time, a solid analysis. He seems to be playing it quite safe: careful not to point at anyone.
+ Show Spoiler +Ok, LOTS to go on here, gonna give my take on things:
The General feeling for the first day started like this: the town began giving intro post that most had no content. the exception to this is of course Mataza, who kinda claimed Cop, and then retracted it.( I still do not like is explanation). the first three people to really get the ball rolling where ViscaraEyes, GiygaS, and Mataza. Of the three, I liked VisEyes approach the most, and Mataza's the least. but these 3 started talking, there still talking, and its leading somewhere. the way I feel about it is the longer they talk, the long one will slip up, and for me that does not make them A high priority lynch.
Is one of them Mafia? man it sure looks like it.
the next list of people include me: Hiro, Karshe, Palmar, Prplhz, and nard. Of this group, Prplhz and Karshe have had the most helpful post in my eyes. Palmar and nard mostly made some general post about the situation. Im leaving me out because thats a job for someone else.
Where does this leave me? I starting to look at inactives to vote for. but which one?
The only one I feel right now that would be an ok vote would be Skrammen, and heres why. the only post by Skrammen is one of agreeing with Mataza, apparently for no reason, ether he is a terrible Maffia, or a terrible townie.
Mataza, I want to believe your town, but the way you go about playing just rubs me a bit. I LOVE that you are taking swings at people, but as soon as some one wants to have a disscusion, you ether turn your finger on them, or call them a Bandwaggoner. I also dont like that almost every defense you say "I just wanted to see how you would react." that might be true, but it leaves me with no read on you...
what would we get if we voted Skrammen? if he flips town, we got a good reason to trust Mataza. If he flips scum, well, Mataza has some explaining to do...
will decide in a bit, to give more inactives time to post Another big post. This time he's after me, one of the inactive ones, despite his indication in his earlier post that they were not of priority. Again, he seems reluctant to actually point any fingers at anyone but me, the safest choice. He seems somewhat suspicious of Mataza and VisceraEyes.
+ Show Spoiler +@VisEyes
and while I was posting you say that Jez, I was on board with you Vis, but that's just a lame attitude... Nothing to analyse here really, just putting it out there for easier referance.
+ Show Spoiler +gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen This is his last post with any meat on the bones. He explains his reasoning for going the safe route: His arguments are well founded, but still very safe.
+ Show Spoiler +wow, drama drama :D
I have some thoughts and ideas, but they can wait till dawn. Not much else to say, that hasn't been said.
Lets see how the night unfolds His last post. Nothing to look at, really.
Conclusion Early he seems very eager to start huntin dem scums. After some thinking, he thinks that the safe way is the best way, and votes for the safest lynch of d1. However, his rationale for lynching was just and well-founded and does not strike me as mafia behaviour. However, I am a bit worried that he is perhaps just a bit too safe, and that might hurt us in the long run. As of now, I think he is somewhat suspicious, but not enough to get me pointing the finger.
From nard's analysis on him:
has a medium amount of posts/content on day 1 with a reasonable townie logic. defends viscera during the early FoS'ing between matazar and viscera. he keeps being slightly suspicious of matazar and offered imo the best reasoning for voting on day 1
All in all, I do not think Hiro is one we should put our focus on just yet. As of now, I am more suspicious of Palmer, and i'll be looking closer at his posts after getting some sleep.
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Right now I have a brilliant maneuver in mind, but I really would need to write 1 PM to make it work. Argh
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I request prplhz to voice his thoughts. He said he is not going to be online for 12 hours, but thats been 17 hours already.
I really want to hear a fourth opinion.
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Also FoS prplhz.
He still gives me a chaotic read. His behaviour overall seems a little.....off. Like he is planning spontaneous responses. He talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control. Literally. He doesn´t want to help lead the town, he only talks about control. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:(Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces He mostly points out things that are bad or "harmful" for town, but never about things that actually help us. All that, while he goes out of his way and calls himself important enough to be the nightkill, because "they might be afraid that I will try to rally people". Him rallying people never looked probable or even possible to me.
After rereading all his posts, there is only 2 explanations in my mind: 1) He is greatly holding back, while thinking he is absolutely invaluable. He doesn´t know in the least how he appears to the town 2) He is scum trying to be perceived as invaluable, a good analyst. With superior knowledge he has a deep understanding of what actually happens. But because he is Mafia, he cannot post why his maf buddies are suspicious.
I really, really want to think he is town since he was quite active. It just doesn´t fit somehow.
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Okay, so to calm my nerves, I thought I'd take a look at someone I haven't really been looking at before. A relative inactive compared to some, but definately a player. NARD. The following is a listing of his posts up until the Day 1 vote, and my thoughts.
On May 16 2011 18:49 nard wrote:hio everyone, obligatory 1st post here. @current discussion: Mataza seems to be more experienced than the average newcomers here so i don't suspect him just because he made the first posts with some actual content today.. i rather find it interesting that VisceraEyes is jumping to conclusions / trying to badmouth someone that quick. :p im really curious how were gonna settle for our 1st lynch given that no special roles are in the game! Early game, when I'm eyeballing Mataza and GiygaS has bandwagoned. Rightly notices that this isn't Mataza's first rodeo and smartly dodges giving a real comment other than 'Someone's pointing a finger...maybe someone should point one at them.'
Also prematurely assumes that there are no power-roles in the game...unless he's trying to deceive new players, which I find highly unlikely.
On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: dont forget we have an 48hour day cycle, so there is still plenty of time for everybody to post. i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p This generated a few strange responses. A few people jumped on him about this post, claiming 'It shouldn't be hard...just write something'...also one or two 'Maybe it's cause he's trying to think of something non-scummy to say!' All in all, I think he might just be new and not sure what a good way to lead into a game like this would be. In my opinion, totally reasonable.
On May 17 2011 10:35 nard wrote:nice to see a 2nd poster with a lot of content besides mataza - thanks prplhz onto your note: Show nested quote +While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. i realized when i made that post that it in itself is suspicious as well and thats kinda supporting the argument i posted - everything you post except a trivial "hello" might be endangering your life and i guess most if not all townies want not only the town to win, but also to survive until the end. as requested here are my opinions on the 3 most active posters. this is no deep analysis just some gut feelings after having read the last 2 thread pages. i might post a reasoning with quotes and all that jazz in a few hours when i have a break. Mataza - before prplhz posted his argument about him trying to set up a leadership he was pretty unsuspicious to me. currently undeciced, still tending to townie though. Viscera - so far the most suspicious. locking in on only Mataza, a lot of posts with lacking content. Giygas - less suspicious then Viscera. kind of in an odd place to make a decision as his posts are way less agressive / suspicious than viscera, but they keep appearing as a double tag team which makes it harder to form a seperate opinion on both. hoping for the 2 inactives to show up soon :> Admits to himself that his post might have been suspicious, explains his rationale. Also gives opinions of the 3 most active posters up to this point, myself Mataza and GiygaS.
On May 18 2011 10:08 nard wrote: oh my, waking up and checking mafia thread as the 1st thing was a good choice :D by skimming the last 4 new pages quick i find hiro's lynch logic the most appelling. as im lacking a big analysis right now, ill jump the bandwagon for the inactives - skrammen slightly more suspicious as after his 1st post there will still 8 hours to go and he didnt post again, even after being asked to.
##vote Skrammen
modkill avoided, suspicion raised - see you on day2 :3 Okay, this is where it starts getting iffy with me. Not only does he ADMITTEDLY jump on a bandwagon, but he admittedly does it following someone else' logic. Add to this the fact that he waits almost a page and a half before even POSTING, barely escaping (or smartly dodging?) FoS's and ##Votes flying around during that time. All the while pointing out someone else's suspicious behavior. Interesting.
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Alright I'm back from work alright and read through all you guys wrote.
I'd like to do some analysis of how votes were cast last night. Times are in KST, first player is voter second is votee, -> () is unvote. So here we go: + Show Spoiler + 18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends
First I want to say that while scum might have voted for GiygaS, I am sure that his demise was never intentional. After GiygaS was lynched it was 9-2 in favor of town, and if the scum had tried to kill someone who had gotten nurse protection, it would have been 9-2 at dawn on day2. This is not very favorable for scum.
This is why I am exonerating VisceraEyes. He cast the 4th vote on GiygaS at a time when Skrammen had only 2 votes. If VisceraEyes was scum it would not be good to put his fellow scum in such a dangerous position. You might say "Well at that point there were 5 votes missing, maybe he thought that in the event that GiygaS would almost get lynched he would do an 11th hour scum switch and send Skrammen home" but then he would almost certainly have been doomed himself the following day.
Another thing to note is that Palmar's last post before voting ended was at 9:18, at a point where GiygaS had 4 votes to Skrammen's 3. Palmar had been very critical of inactives all game at this point and he might have said "Okay I'm going to switch my vote from DeepBlue2 to Skrammen because I want an inactive to get lynched and Skrammen has more votes already" and it would have been in line with everything he had said so far. Hell, in that last post of his he even says that Skrammen is bad for town but he does not change his vote. If Palmar is scum why did he not do this, greatly helping to prevent an, at that time, impending lynch of GiygaS?
Before next paragraph I'd like everybody to know that I was roleblocked during the night. This means that the mafia has as roleblocker and that town either has Doc+Cop or all townies. Scum knew that all along, now everybody knows.
Now on to Mataza. To everybody's surprise this guy was not scum killed. I say that there are two reasons why this might be; either scum were afraid that he was gonna get nursed, he made several pleas during and they did not want to risk their night kill. After all that would put them at a 9-2 disadvantage which would be very bad. The other possibility is that Mataza is scum, and while the scum could have tried to kill Mataza and hope for a nurse save, that would have been very ballsy and I think that scum are playing it safe now. Mataza's voting pattern is that he put his vote for GiygaS to make it 2-0 which is a very risky move if he is scum.
Now if Mataza is scum I'd say that the scum played very risky on day1, and after getting burned very hard and putting themselves in a terrible position I'd assume that during the night they would agree to play very safe and also I would think that while staying with their personality their roles in the game will probably change to accomodate for their new safe strategy. If Mataza is scum, did they start playing very safe during night1? Did they play risky during day1?
Now lets start at day1. If Mataza is scum they played very risky during day1. Most important thing that happened during day1 was the trial of GiygaS. Mataza giving him the second vote was very risky indeed but it would have paid off immensely if town would lynch somebody else. I suspect that Mataza as scum might have advocated this to his fellow scums because he seems very savvy and apparently considered everybody noob in the beginning. So if Mataza is scum, scum plans looked like this in the beginning: We gonna impress the town first and see where the game goes. The game went in the direction of "lets lynch inactives" which fitted well into scum plans, Mataza in his fourth post even said that "it's not a bad idea to lynch them". I'd say if Mataza is scum, scum played risky on day1 and I think that fits with how Mataza appears; savvy and underestimating the town.
Lets see what has happened since dusk day1 and if Mataza is scum, was it safe?. Very most important is that Karshe has been killed. This is a very safe kill for the mafia as nobody expected them to target him. Mataza spent most of the night begging nurses to protect him. If Mataza is scum he was obviously trying to make himself appear more townie by being very afraid of his life, so the question is, did he overdo this? Mataza asked for something that would probably have been given to him anyway, and he asked for it several times in his night posts.
I'm also somewhat curious about Mataza's intended risky play that would be of great good to this town, especially because it is very long term. He promises us a scum if we do two lynches for him. Does not sound like a bad deal at all, and if Mataza is townie he will probably still be very high on the mafia hitlist, so why not immediately risk his already fragile existence for a guaranteed scum lynch? If Mataza is scum though he might try to lead us to two town lynches, which would bring us to 2v5 after night3. This is a risky, but LONG TERM risky. Short term I'd still consider it very safe play if Mataza is scum.
Some of these arguments came out in the wrong order but I'm done writing now :D I'll post more analysis tomorrow but for now I FoS Mataza and I am very curious to see his defense and what his cool plan might be. I'll probably be here for some hours for any questions
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Oh yea I didn't focus on the third scum at all. It should be apparent that I think it is someone far less active than Mataza but I do not know who. I think hiro protagonist, Wunder and nard are all candidates for obvious reasons, and I very much doubt that it is Skrammen or stefftastiq.
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Oh shit I need to do some roleblock discussion too.
Right, Karshe got killed and I got blocked. We either have Doc+Cop or we have vanilla town. The scum has known this all along.
Now Imagine this. Scum tried to block townie. Why on earth would they do that? Only makes sense if they are trying to do some mind games, but would it not be better to block someone other than me? Someone who is townie but who is acting scummy? Now imagine this: Scum tried to block Doc. If I am doc would their blocking me have helped in their assassination of Karshe? Not likely, I do not think I ever even mentioned Karshe before he was killed so why would they think I would try to save him? So scum tried to block Cop?
What are your thoughts on this?
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On May 19 2011 20:01 nard wrote:really interesting day/night turnout. have some free time now to investigate a bit, so here it goes: hiro protagonist: has a medium amount of posts/content on day 1 with a reasonable townie logic. defends viscera during the early FoS'ing between matazar and viscera. he keeps being slightly suspicious of matazar and offered imo the best reasoning for voting on day 1 Show nested quote +gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen in light of the last post by viscera we should not forget about the vote on skrammen for a possible read on matazar. least suspicious for me atm. deepblu2: not that active. first posts were pretty meager. kinda suspicious of him, so im gonna quote all posts after the short ones with no content and write my opinion. Show nested quote +I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. very careful wording with his suspicion. not too much to say about that post Show nested quote +Alright. Well I guess I'll make another post but I'm new at this. I just wanted to make the 2nd post saying I was here because you were waiting for a post and I only had a minute to write it so sorry about that.
I am not a band wagon/front-runner sir, and I am most definately not mafia as since Day 1 I have been secretly observing people's actions. Upon further review, I believe that Mataza is not mafia. He posted earlier that in order for the Mafia to thrive and be successful, they must lay low. However, he has done quite the opposite and I am starting to think that his "defense" isn't an overreaction to being Mafia but instead just trying to have justice served by having us vote the actual mafia members. I do believe, however, that the correct mafia member is none other than Glygas. Being sly in his ways, he has tricked people to vote against Matiza who he must believe is his biggest threat. Glygas has turned against the two most active players looking to seek justice for the Town in my eyes. He has been accusing people constantly and the time he has defended himself, he just used quotes or responses that were not though out which makes it very hard to find hard evidence. with this post it starts getting interesting. he posts directly after being accused by palmar. a lot of excuses early on, the lamest one being that he cannot be mafia as hes been secretly observing other peoples actions. he retracts his suspicion and is 100% certain of glygas, pretty early on. i have to admit im analyzing after reading visceras big post about matazar sacrificing glygas to get a leader role going. this would fit in perfectly if mafia decided between this and his post before to sacrifice glygas as he was playing too obvious. next post is his vote on glygas, then a quick comment on the successful lynch of glygas. last post until now is the following: + Show Spoiler +There is still time to go.. I think the people who tried to offvote so that Glygas wouldn't be lynched should be taken into strong consideration for obvious reasons. states the obvious and puts the focus on the people not voting for glygas. now if the biggest of em all conspiracies is true and glygas was in fact a sacrificial lamb, we can be pretty sure that we wont find any mafia on the offvoters list (and im not saying that just because im an offvoter :p ) anyways, my conclusion: pretty suspicious (even though he had the proper read on glygas), might be just a mafia newb though. prplhz : so many posts.. claims hes completely new to mafia and posts really nice content afterwards. is suspicious of matazar in the beginning and focuses on him trying to get a leadership role without really accusing anyone, which is bad for the town. also is suspicious of me for my post about 1st post might not be posted in the first few hours of day1 ;( he also had a nice read on viscera & giygas turning on each other, with at least one of them being scum. he first voted skrammen, but what made him the day 1 hero is his last minute switch to giygas which led to his lynch. this makes the whole giygas-sacrifice story either less believable, more lucky for mafia or he himself is mafia. O_O after day1 is over he's warning of viscera, who is kind of a weird guy to analyze.. anyway, without any proper reasoning behind it, i still believe hes one of the good guys rather than being mafia. Palmar: first posts contain no real value, restates the current situation at that time and wants inactives to post. also didnt like my post about 1st posts taking a while :D then he takes a strong stance on matazar being inactive "innocent as new-born baby" - which he revokes later on. skimming through the rest of his (huge amount of) posts, he has a pretty reasonable stance on giygas during all the time. first unsure of him being bad mafia or noob town, he wants to keep him even in case that he's mafia to let him make more mistakes. after the lynch he is quick to analyze that he might be indeed a sacrifice to gain trust and revokes his focus on offvoters. after a quick defense against viscera who goes apeshit on him for changing his mind there were no more posts. im gonna take a break from analyzing here, this took longer then i expected and im far from done.. i will try to post my analysis of the other ppl in this daycycle. already fearing matazars and visceras analysis O_O so many posts.. anyway, keep in mind i read visceras day2 post of being suspicious of matazar just before and i only analyzed by reading all single posts, not the complete thread again and relied on my memory from following the thread earlier..
One thing that makes this wall of text stand out. The two people he defended were Hiro and Purple haze. Hiro has offered nothing beneficial the entire game and is slowing down progress IMO, which if you wouldn't consider suspicious, is just irritating and is not helping Town side. I have no analysis of Karshe dieing, as I don't understand why they would kill him. Hiro defended Glygas, slowed down our progress, has offered no advice pro-town, and the only person really defending him is Nard. Karshe just wanted to lynch inactives so I really don't get what the motive was behind killing him.
About purplehaze, a couple of people defended him in the past(and possibly present) such as nard and Palmar. Just a fact to throw out. Karshe was very confident that he would be alive Day 2. So, I'm figuring that the mafia thought he was hiding something (eg: being a cop).
Game deciding thing: Whether Mataza will be lynched/killed or not. He's the hardest person to judge as throughout the entire game basically, he's been blamed/defended about 50%/50% so there is really no way of telling whether he is scum or not so I can't really accuse him of anything.
Wunder, like Hiro, hasn't really said many useful things, he might be mafia but again, nothing incriminating at the moment. I will post in a bit if I find more. I still have a few things to say but will wait before lynching. Will see how things play out.
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So looks like a lot of people are looking into me
DeepBlu2: no I never gave a explanation into my vote after day1. I gave my reasons for the vote BEFORE voting. Something all good townies should do. I still stand behind that vote.
Palmar, nord, and Skrammen have posted some anyalisis of me. All three analyises me equaly well in my opinon, and each draw up different conclusions! Palmar wants to lynch me whill nord thinks im a safe townie. Skrammen is unsure (thanks for steping into the game btw). I find this intriguing...
One thing I will addresses (sense no one really asked me any questions), Is of my play being safe. true. I see no reason to not continue to do so. We got a scum day 1. we have the advantage. I am gonna keep on making my opinions heard, and any suspicion I have known.
As for the rest of the game, my thoughts around Karshes death are like this: mafia does not know if we have a doc. It would be to risky to go Mataza in case the was one, because they cant afford a miss hit. they chose the next best thing; going for blue roles. they took a shot in the dark in hopes off hitting blue. And if they missed, well, It was very unlikely Karshe had a doc on him, so at least its a guarantee town kill.
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You want me to take the risk? No problem. I see a huge opening right now, even improved by your own post. It´s about blue roles.
Plan A(don´t do this anymore): I ask the Doctor to claim openly. If we have 2 doctors, we know 1 of them is scum. Sounds good initially. BUT this of course has huge flaws. In the worst case we lose the doctor for nothing.
Plan B: Cop claim openly. ASAP. Prplhz claims to have been roleblocked. He also says he is only townie. We have very likely a doctor. If there really is a roleblocker, we have a cop. And if we have a cop, who is not prplhz(since he just claimed townie), we can verify the setup.
What we don´t have is a roleblocker and a cop. The setup is only 1 doctor. Claiming roleblock is not an uncommon strategy for scum(I don´t know why, I think it´s utter rubbish)
Super duper risky plan has the following options: 1) Purple fakes roleblock. We have 1 doc, no cop 2) Purple was really blocked. Our "doctor" is scum. 3) Purple was really blocked. We have 1 cop and 1 doc. We only know if cop claims. He should.
4) Purple fakes the roleblock and we have 1 cop. In that case our scum are Purple and the doctor.
Obviously 4) won´t happen. Mafia would doom itself. If we have a cop, he also has a report from the night, since Purp was blocked. I expect to have either 1) or 3) happening and both situations are very clear. A clear situation is always good. The easier it is to understand the situation the better the town can act.
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On May 17 2011 12:23 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, here are my thoughts so far,
the first two people I gonna talk about are the ones i have the most read on/talked the most o far:
VisceraEyes: He was the most active in the first few pages, with most of his post wanting simply for all active players to say hi. Also mentioning not to take suspicions of one another as a bad thing. I can agree with this line of logic, as it will foster a more friendly town, and get in on the scum hunting. His FoS of Mataza looks more like a call for discussion then an actual accusation. my worry is that he is almost TOO town, and is a likely prime hit for Mafia, unless of course he IS Mafia.
Mataza: considered the most suspicious as of right now, and with good reasoning. His first post was one of feinting a cop role. and Has been very Defensive initially when VisceraEye ask a question. Then he points the finger right back at VisceraEyes. after that he claims that he "just wanted to see how you would react". However he made a good post about how he wants to talk about what everyone else thinks, and his post are in the vein of scumhunting (when his not busy defending himself). not sure what to think of him tbh.
Next up GiygaS, nord, Palmar,:
These 3 have the most posts with the least amount of Analysis. most likely town wanting to hang low or wait and see before going into to much discussion. GiygaS has done the most in getting discussion going, expesialy around what VisceraEye and Mataza have been saying. not alot to go on.
prplhz: quite at first but then a solid post with good analysis.
Deepblue, Steff, Karshe: still need to here more from them. deepblue has gotten in pretty late with just a one liner. gonna watch to see if he is gonna just slide under the modkill, as there are still some inactives, and is laying low(as in acting scummy)
thats it for now.
On May 18 2011 09:08 hiro protagonist wrote: @VisEyes
and while I was posting you say that Jez, I was on board with you Vis, but that's just a lame attitude...
On May 18 2011 09:48 hiro protagonist wrote: gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen
I'd quote the next two posts but all it is saying is "Alright, slow down guys, I'll post my analysis soon." and instead of doing that, you just try to slow down the progress of lynching with the following post.
The above quotes might just seem like a wall of text but each of them have alot of things in common. Before the game really getting active, he's instantly pro Glygas and all the other people I really have as my main suspects. Second post, He only starts disagreeing with Vis when he switched votes from Skrammen to Glygas. Which FYI, Skrammen I highly highly highly doubt is mafia as Glygas was the first to lynch him and i was the first to lynch Glygas. When everyone is starting to lynch Glygas, Hiro is obviously just like the other posts, defending him. When he says he's sticking by his original vote, he's really just continuing to defend Glygas. I still have other suspects but what's important is I'm very confident in the fact that Hiro is indeed, Mafia.
Fos hiro
I'll feel terrible if he isn't but he's made it very obvious in his stance and if he is Town, then he's bad at it.
FYI Hiro, congratulations on your almost 200 posts. Maybe your 200th one will be the one where you get lynched. tee hee
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Addendum: If you are the doctor and are absolutely sure you never gave your role away, claim it loudly. It would mean we have an impostor in the game.
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Stop telling people to claim. I don't like where this is going. If we save our blues, we could use them if we get behind after the lynch (such as, if we hit a townie). If we have them, that is.
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Mataza, I don't get what your plan would accomplish. Mafia can read it to. could you explain it better perhaps, or am i not getting it
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I hate making a post directly after but sometimes you just remember that thing you were trying to say. I'll try to stop doing this but something that purplehaze that I like is this:
18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends
I'm figuring this is right as I would hope, even if he was mafia, he wouldn't switch it or anything. He probably didn't though.
Glygas's goodbye post said something along the lines of, "we almost had you gg." not exact quote but it dosen't really matter because the fact that he said "We" in the sentence implies that their plan was to offvote him to Skrammen or whatever his name is.
09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 10:08 nard -> Skrammen
Last 3 people to vote for Skrammen. Their plan obviously was to offvote to him and by him stating, "we almost had them" that was their latest plan. This gives me more reason to believe that not only is Hiro mafia, but their plan was not to intentionally lynch Glygas to make it look like they were town but they were doing their best to make him live.
I will probably stick by hiro being mafia, if I change my mind, it will just be who is the 3rd mafia, as I think it's fairly obvious he is the 2nd mafia.
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Btw, I have a read on why Karshe was not protected at night. If Mafia is crafty they knew it too. This little affair is the only reason I even consider that we have an impostor doctor.
Of course in case it was just random I can´t tell my read openly as it would benefit the mafia to know what I puzzled together.
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@Blue
I think he said "I almost had you" which in itself was peculiar because he clearly wasn't a mastermind of any kind of plan.
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@Mataza What do you mean 'imposter doctor'? No one has claimed doctor OR cop yet...
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On May 20 2011 09:26 VisceraEyes wrote:@Blue I think he said "I almost had you" which in itself was peculiar because he clearly wasn't a mastermind of any kind of plan.
Yeah, just checked, your right. I could've sworn it said we but whatever. Point still stands. I still believe the mafia communicated w/ eachother and agreed to vote for Skrammen.
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There is flaw in Mataza's logic
Do not roleclaim under any circumstances.
Will explain later, I'm busy at the moment.
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That´s why I strongly request claims now. If our real doctor was very silent, he must have missed the impostor.
If we have a cop he MUST claim. The reward is instantly getting an innocent report and a mafia. The risk is getting heavily messed with by scum. Claiming means we know the setup 100% sure. I cannot overstate how good this is for us.
If you are cop and do not claim, it means I will wrongly try to get prplhz lynched. And that if you claim later nobody will believe you.
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Mataza, WHY do you need to know the setup? It doesn't affect our play at ALL. All it does is guarantee DEATH to a blue n2...which is NOT favorable. And if someone claims later I'll believe him unless I have reason not to...quit speaking for town Mataza. Your threats about prplhz are no good either...why are you acting like this? And why so suddenly?
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I know this sounds crazy. That´s why I scrapped the version where we only had a doctor.
Now we have a doctor and a roleblock. If both are true, cop will claim and we get 3 confirmed innocents: The doc(who will remain anonymous) The cop(who will be known) The report of the cop(since cop was not blocked)
The other option is that either the doc lies or that the roleblock is a lie. We get 1 maf in a 1:1 trade, which is good for town.
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Dude, prplhz did NOT claim Doc...he's postulating about what Mafia might've been thinking.
I repeat, prplhz did NOT CLAIM DOC. Stop telling people to claim roles...this is getting out of hand. lol
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but then they kill the cop... the longer he stays under, the more reports he can do, the better for us
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seems like a few other people are suspicious of hiro who i am the most convinced of being a good guy (at least of those i could analyze until now)..
deepblu2, i would suggest reading up the first pages again. the reasoning behind his suspicions make a lot of sense if you see them in the context of the wild finger-pointing in the early game. also - as i stated already - the reason leading up to his vote (and me bandwagoning it) convinced me the most (kill the most inactive on day1 if we have nothing to be sure of yet - check. stay aware of giygas, who might spoil more for mafia if he is indeed mafia? - check.)
since my last big post you suddenly showed up with way more posts & content than before and try to raise suspicion of me, and now you're blaming the one i'm convinced the most of being a townie - funny coincident that you were the most suspicious in my post i was unsure of you being a inactive/inexperienced player or mafia, but this presses me to
FoS deepblu2
I would love to see some other opinions on deepblu2, especially from our most active guys
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I'm also not a fan of blowing up eventual power roles today. Nobody claimed doc as far as i know, so what use would it be to have a potential "real" doc stand up? Only advantage i can see is to maybe know if purplehaze lied about being roleblocked which i dont see as the most important point, especially coupled with the high cost of our blues being unveiled..
to finish up this post, a small explanation about my posting hours - right now its 7:30 am for me, work starts around 8. as the daycycle ends at 9am for me i was throwing in my vote on day 1 just after waking up and reading up on the thread. i'll create my 2nd part of the analysis this afternoon (my time).
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Okay I'm back.
First of all: Do not roleclaim.
Here is what will happen if a cop claims:
Mafia immediately knows the setup. If they have a roleblocker, they know there is a doctor too. If they don't have a roleblocker, they know there is no doctor.
a) If they do have a roleblocker, they'll just roleblock the cop until the end of the game, making it useless.
b) If they don't have a roleblocker, they know there is no doctor, so they just.... shoot the cop.
The only situation a roleclaim is advisable, is if the cop actually found Mafia. And even then it'd be better to simply go back, read the post of whoever they found to be scum, and try to get them lynched the old way.
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btw:
If we have a cop he MUST claim. The reward is instantly getting an innocent report and a mafia. The risk is getting heavily messed with by scum.
this makes no sense. yes we know one more innocent (the cop himself) who now needs doc protection every night. mafia will have it easier to go after doc. also cop might have been unlucky on day1 and scanned a townie, so the possibilty of knowing a mafia for sure is slim...
also we might have no doc/cop at all. if we have one, i strongly suggest staying undercover for now and come out in the open when you have done some important scans, be it a mafia or a important townie who is under a lot of pressure.
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I loathe to say it, but I agree with Palmar fully in this respect. Then if he's got innocent reports, he can defend the innocence in silence too. Obviously there's a CHANCE Maf will randomly hit him, but that's better than the ONE report and certain death, isn't it? Maybe my math is off...
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Prplhz is not doc, he is scum.
I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop.
Also as far as voting is concerned:
18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends We know Giygas is mafia. He was the first to vote Skrammen. A short time later, but not immediately afterwards, prplhz follows.
Skrammen of course was a perfect safe lynch, chosen by mafia. Also consider this:
On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen
His voting on Skrammen was not his own choice, but apparently Purplehaze´s.
##vote prplhz
Only thing that could make me think he is town is a very good analysis or a cop claim. Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2.
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No VisEyes, you're perfectly correct. I'm sorry to have put you in a position where you have to agree with me.
Didn't Mataza claim to be an experienced player? Is there a chance this unhelpful roleclaim idea wasn't a simple mistake, but an elaborate plan? I was pretty sure Mataza wasn't one of the people I had to really analyse, but I guess I might have to spend some time re-reading his stuff.
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the voting time is suspicious but not enough for me to cast a vote just yet.
also - what??? in the same post you say:
I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop.
Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2.
this doesnt make sense..
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On May 20 2011 09:51 Mataza wrote:Prplhz is not doc, he is scum. I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop. Also as far as voting is concerned: Show nested quote +18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends We know Giygas is mafia. He was the first to vote Skrammen. A short time later, but not immediately afterwards, prplhz follows. Skrammen of course was a perfect safe lynch, chosen by mafia. Also consider this: Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen His voting on Skrammen was not his own choice, but apparently Purplehaze´s. ##vote prplhzOnly thing that could make me think he is town is a very good analysis or a cop claim. Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2.
I still think nord or Hiro is one of the mafia, maybe both, if your incorrect that is... I'm kind of stuck as to who to lynch tonight. I agree with your reasoning, but consider, that my reasoning was near identical. While you picked purplehaze because of the timing, 2-3 people who I suspect did the same exact thing basically when it became more clear that that the mafia was trying to save Glygas.
09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 10:08 nard -> Skrammen
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thinking about it, it makes sense in the way that you suggest a loss of blue roles is not a big deal? dude, youre digging your own grave.
gotta go now, i will be back in ~ 8 hours
happy scum hunting everyone :>
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Nope, if Cop dies without ever outing a report, or his claim, he is nothing more than a green townie for us.
However, right now we have a scenario in which we either get - a lot of confirmed innocents, which facilitates scumhunt immensely - 1 scum - 2 scum
I know what I´m doing. Prplhz was right when he called me a risktaker. I did this before and I will do it again, if the risk/reward is favorable.
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also PLEASE get some analysis done on deepblu2.
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@DeepBlu
did you go back and check Wunder? I am very interested in what an analysis of him might reveal.
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My vote stands unless something convinces me otherwise. Something real. There has been a lot of bandwagon jumping (even by GiygaS himself)...prplhz is on my list too, but Palmar is WAY above him and while the timing of the votes is suspect, keep in mind that prplhz said in advance that he was voting for an inactive...and just because he voted the same as GiygaS does NOT make him scum.
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if cop dies without reporting, we can still analyze his earlier posts before death. this is getting intense, i'll put a 2nd FoS on Matazar.
summing up:
FoS deepblu2 FoS Matazar
now i really gotta go, 2 minutes till work starts ,_,
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Maybe you can call us all sheep today too. -.- And I had just about cleared you in my mind. Back to page 3 I guess.
*weep*
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On May 20 2011 09:56 nard wrote:the voting time is suspicious but not enough for me to cast a vote just yet. also - what??? in the same post you say: Show nested quote + I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop.
Show nested quote + Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2.
this doesnt make sense..
Why, it makes good sense. We got Giygas without any blue role. And if the maf really has a roleblocker, we could be all townies. If a blue role would be so important that you couldn´t win without it, it wouldn´t be a possible setup.
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No one's saying it's impossible without a blue role Mata, just that it's much easier with one that's ALIVE IF HE EXISTS. Outting him seems TOO risky, even for you sir. Your risks have paid off in the past, the past does NOT dictate the future.
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On May 20 2011 10:02 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 09:56 nard wrote:the voting time is suspicious but not enough for me to cast a vote just yet. also - what??? in the same post you say: I can and I will explain every little detail about my plan once I am sure that we 100% have a cop/do not have a cop.
Trust me on this, we didn´t need a blue role day 1, we don´t need a blue day 2.
this doesnt make sense.. Why, it makes good sense. We got Giygas without any blue role. And if the maf really has a roleblocker, we could be all townies. If a blue role would be so important that you couldn´t win without it, it wouldn´t be a possible setup.
18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends
“All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.” -Galileo Galilei
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Do you feel the thrill of the hunt?
Up till now I played what I would consider safe. You do not win mafia by playing safe. You win by taking small risks(lynching Giygas) and slightly bigger risks(what I´m doing).
I have half a case against prplhz. Before that, he appeared scummy to at least 1 other person. I will extend my case against him and I will push him like I pushed Giygas. And he will flip red.
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I'm really starting to doubt your greenitude Mataza...you claim to have some kind of back-route plan that requires blue roles, immeditely call them to claim, FIGHT to have them claim, and when it becomes clear that your case is lost, you vote for prplhz based on...what? The fact that he voted Skrammen? With several others? You're taking a risk all right...but I don't think it's the kind everyone assumed you meant.
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I move that you flip Palmar with me, that way you have your suspicions of prplhz tomorrow, plus you get invaluable information on me as well.
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Hey
I just want to clarify that what GiygaS said after his lynching should NOT be considered by anybody as evidence of anything. The game ends when you die but as the rules state you can make a GG post and that's what GiygaS did.
On May 18 2011 13:07 GiygaS wrote:GG everyone. Almost had you
It is very unfortunate that he did not stop his sentence 3 words and a smiley earlier but I am sure that he did not mean anything by it.
I'll post more analysis later but I'm always up for questions directed at me.
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@prplhz What are your thoughts on Mataza's sudden 'Visceraness'?
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@VisceraEyes
You're gonna have to explain what you mean by 'Visceraness'.
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Erratic behavior, obviously.
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@VisceraEyes
Uh his risky secret plan appeared to be very poor and he apparently assumed stuff that was not true. Palmar tore it apart and now he's suddenly on a crusade against me. I don't really know honestly, but I am not too worried. Even if he succeeds, which I very much doubt, the mafia is gonna have a very hard time. I think that 'Visceraness' is a good word to describe what he's doing right now. It almost seem like he's panicking.
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Of course, tomorrow he might say that his erratic behaviour was his real secret and risky plan. I think he really dug a hole for himself and I'm curious to see if he can dig himself out of it again.
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I am not erratic, I am thrilled. My mind is like an arrow and my target is prplhz.
I analysed 3 people this game: Viscera Giygas Prplhz
In that order. I didn´t waver. I didn´t change my announced FoS anytime between. I claim we do not have a roleblock in the game. That´s the most recent of prplhz lies.
If you were mafia, would you roleblock prplhz? People said I claim cop in my first post(which is a misinterpretation, but w/e). Somebody else gave away his doctortude.
Why would anyone roleblock prplhz at this point?
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@Mataza
On May 20 2011 11:29 Mataza wrote: That´s the most recent of prplhz lies.
So what other lies are you talking about?
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So wait, then that's your hitlist? And I'm on it? You might sharpen that arrowhead my friend.
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Also NO ONE CLAIMED DOCTOR YOU'RE EFFING HIGH lol
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Nope, this is what I did all game. You might remember back on day 1 when I put FoS on you for a couple hours. I dropped, as you also may remember. Because you are quite obvious green.
And yes, Doctor didn´t claim but I KNOW WHO HE IS, because I have awesome observational skills.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Wait, so what's happening here? PurpleHaze is claiming he got roleblocked and so we have a potential roleblocker and with that, either 8 vanilla townies, or 6 vanilla townies, 1 doctor and a Detective.
Mataza is claiming he knows who the doctor is because of 'observational skills'. I doubt a mafia would openly expose himself to such a thing as the only guarantee he'd know is if he was a mafia and one of them roleblocked the doctor, thus sealing the only way Karshe could have survived.
Am I right in this analysis? o-o
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Also, when do we have to vote?
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What a night/day!
Wunder: within 14 hours I think (03 or 0400 Norwegian time) ;-p
as for today my suspicion for Mataza has grown a bit, mainly because of the sudden urge for people to start calling roles - noone would benefit from that just after one night? (except scums ofcourse) - if there are cop/doc they are more benefitial after a few "scans" etc - atleast thats what I would guess?
Mataza has since the start been quite "loud" but has loudly acted on the behalf of 'town' as far as I see - if this is an act, how can it be proven to be an act? Did scum 'sac' one first night? or did they just fail at random. It seems like a strange decision - if Mataza voted for GiygaS - and then the (rest) mafias voted for skrammen - their plan already failed right there? If this is just random - well - Im confused
hiro and prplhz are both also a bit under my suspicion - mainly because of their votes (as someone noted before) - we can see how GiygaS voted for skrammen and them following. BUT its also noteworth that Karshe also voted for skrammen - though he was town -which kind of proves that votingpattern isnt bound to make that player scum or town, we are individuals - and we think differently, tho its easy to be drawn into long analysis of what I myself would call fairly little data.
I really hope there are roleblockers/doc/cop/something in this game - and I really hope noone claimes the roles yet - atleast not before they are used enough to win the game (atleast for town part)
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ALSO - people: have under consideration that we are under completely different timezones - its kinda obvious to me that the USA-people are posting here at the oposite time of the day that I am, hope its like that for everyone
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sorry guys, wont be able to hold my promise and get another big analysis done - i probably wont even be able to check in before the day ends.
stefftastiq ure making it hard on me - i fully agree with your last posts. in the meantime matazar claims he knows who the doc is and seems to be only one to have noticed something. this, combined with pushing for revealing the role will force my vote on him for today.
i am revoking my FoS on stefftastiq (still kinda suspicious, but not enough to warrant a FoS) and will cast my vote on Matazar. Not sure if this is the best lynch for today, but it will make this whole thing a lot less confusing..
##Vote: Matazar
see you "tomorrow" ingame.
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United States22154 Posts
Votecount! Palmar(1) VisceraEyes
Hiro Protagonist(1) Palmar
prplhz(1) Mataza
Mataza nard
Palmar currently leading with one vote by virtue of being the first to 1 vote... about 12 hours left in the day, remember to vote or be mod killed. If I missed any votes let me know
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@stefftastiq
It's also worth noting that for the first day's lynch, Palmar voted against the town's wishes. He's been claiming that he doesn't want to lynch inactives, but he still cast his vote for an inactive d1 and didn't change it to the scum OR to the inactive everyone else chose to vote for. Obviously if he'd voted for the inactive we might not have caught the scum, but I think that's less a result of calculated intent by Palmar and more a happy side-effect of prplhz switching his vote last minute.
Mataza is going to vote for prplhz regardless of what anyone says, but I think the very best lynch for today is going to be Palmar as he's PROVEN that he's unwilling to bend for the good of the town. This way we can get a cop-read on prplhz (if one exists...) and go into d3 with as much information as possible.
@Town A vote for Palmar is a vote for town victory.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
On May 20 2011 20:28 stefftastiq wrote: its also noteworth that Karshe also voted for skrammen - though he was town -which kind of proves that votingpattern isnt bound to make that player scum or town,
Aha, this is something important that hadn't been addressed. If mafia were apart of the offvoter group, why would they narrow it down further by killing off an innocent offvoter? That doesn't mean that all offvoters are suddenly innocent, but it does make it a somewhat level playing field.
Unfortunately I won't be able to stay up to read the rest of the day's discussion, so I'm going to have to bandwagon again. The 4 votes already cast are all over the place, but I think there's one person here that currently stands out relative to the other active posters.
##Vote: Palmar
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So here I am, having the biggest WIFOM argument of my live with myself. It's pretty silly how things turn out like this.
It should be clear to everyone by now that Mataza's plan for having blue roles reveal themselves would not benefit anyone but the mafia. The logic is simple enough ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9347746 <--- for anyone that's interested), and no one ought to have any trouble seeing why the plan is bad.
But this is after all a newbie game, shouldn't we expect a bad idea with good intentions? This was my initial reaction to his plan, thus I simply corrected it and moved on.
I would've expected to be done with the issue, but there are two things that keep nagging me. First is that Mataza kept pushing his plan, even after the critical flaws in it had been pointed out. If the mistake was just a miscalculation, he'd have seen it refuted, and stopped it.
The other thing that really bugs me is that Mataza seems to have some experience playing mafia, so he's the last person in town I'd expect to fall to such simple logical errors.
Even further, Mataza is doing some blatantly anti-town things in his latest posts. Check out this one for example:
On May 20 2011 12:00 Mataza wrote: Nope, this is what I did all game. You might remember back on day 1 when I put FoS on you for a couple hours. I dropped, as you also may remember. Because you are quite obvious green.
And yes, Doctor didn´t claim but I KNOW WHO HE IS, because I have awesome observational skills.
Why on earth would you post that you know who the doctor is? The same information is available to everyone, so now the mafia will go back, read the thread again and try to find whatever you found and expose our doctor.
It does not help the town in any way that you're telling us you know who the doctor is. It doesn't further our purpose and it only creates confusion.
My problem is that I had no scum read on Mataza before this incident. Even his randomness during day 1 seemed to be pretty town oriented, but this thing is definitely bad for town. I can't possibly see how pushing a bad plan might be good for town... except if he's hoping mafia jumps on his plan or something...
Surprisingly enough, there is one person I'd really like to hear speak about the incident and the issue, and that is VisEyes.
Assuming you followed up:
On May 20 2011 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Maybe you can call us all sheep today too. -.- And I had just about cleared you in my mind. Back to page 3 I guess.
*weep*
Did you find anything of interest once you read Mataza's posts from the point of view that he was an experienced scum trying to lead the town awry?
I just can't find any justification from a town point of view for what Mataza is doing right about now.
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##Vote: prplhz
Mataza if you aren't right about this I will make it my duty to get you lynched. Mafia or not, if you aren't right about this, I'm going to be pissed.
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The big analysis of Prplhz
Prplhz has been preceived as scummy day1. After Giygas flipped red, perceived suspicion against him dropped a whole lot, as we are seemingly back to hunting inactives. If I am right, he knew he was suspicious day 1. He also knew Giygas was even worse off. So he tried to make 2 bads into 1 good and voted Giygas off, so he is cleared off suspicion.
1) Now it has been enough time to relatively safely assume we have no cop in the game. If this is true, it means we have 1 doc and no roleblockers ingame. But prplhz claimed to have been roleblocked. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=19#364 On May 20 2011 08:36 prplhz wrote: Oh shit I need to do some roleblock discussion too.
Right, Karshe got killed and I got blocked. We either have Doc+Cop or we have vanilla town. The scum has known this all along.
Now Imagine this. Scum tried to block townie. Why on earth would they do that? Only makes sense if they are trying to do some mind games, but would it not be better to block someone other than me? Someone who is townie but who is acting scummy? Now imagine this: Scum tried to block Doc. If I am doc would their blocking me have helped in their assassination of Karshe? Not likely, I do not think I ever even mentioned Karshe before he was killed so why would they think I would try to save him? So scum tried to block Cop?
What are your thoughts on this? My thought on this matter is he is Scum and there is no roleblock. He tried to distract us with talk about happy fun stuff like who the scum thinks is Doctor or Cop. That´s my stance on it.
2) Prplhz talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=6#102 On May 17 2011 09:26 prplhz wrote:Sup guys Right now I am mainly suspecting Mataza, mainly because of something that Mataza said early on: Now this statement could very well be benign but it is doing two things: degrading the town to diminish people's confidence in their ability to play this game (overestimate) making them more susceptible to get influenced by someone (himself) and setting himself up as a "leader" of the town (my town). I do not know why Mataza is trying to set himself up as a leader of the town but there are two scenarios: 1. He's a scum: He wants to control people and mislead them to vote for innocent people and keep the mafia save. 2. He's a townie: He wants to control people and lead to to vote for guilty scum and keep the town save. Either way he is trying to be a "leader" of the town and this in itself is bad. A town should never have a leader and should instead have people thinking very independently forming their own opinion, this should happen through discussion and activity of course. Mataza is very savvy and probably knows that having a leader is not good for a town, so why is he trying to set himself up to be one? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.Now stuff that might talk against this: First: Mataza is actually not pointing fingers at anybody, I think we should be very careful if he ever decides to "lead" "his town" to vote for someone. Second (as pointed out by Mataza himself): If he is trying to lead this town as a scum would lead it we would quickly find out (we would lynch innocent people). And since we can afford losing people, trading a townie (guy Mataza would want to lynch) for a scum (Mataza) is really a good deal for the town. Maybe he is setting himself and the mafia up for mid/late game? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.Other than that I think that all the debate around Mataza is hurting the town (we are not talking about someone else). So to stop this I am going to talk about someone else: VisceraEyes and GiygaS It is very hard for me to argue against VisceraEyes and GiygaS because I am also suspicious of Mataza. This is very hard because, while these two guys have been on Mataza's back the whole time they claim that it has been for the sake of activity. This has worked alright since these three guys are arguably the most contributing players in this game right now so their claimed plans have worked out well. But why are they not directing any of this activity against each other? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.(Bladibla...) Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Note that he also likes us to ask ourself questions, derailing from the important things. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=7#129 On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:(Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces He took a 180 turn on whether or not control is good. Without any given reason. This is very important so I´d like you to read twice. The good parts are marked Where did this sudden change come from?
3) Voting affairs. His last 3 posts before his vote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#148 On May 18 2011 03:11 prplhz wrote:@Skrammen Hi, could you please, in a very short while, provide A LOT more content for us to analyze? I was kinda hoping you would get modkilled. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote:Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active. People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing )) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#160On May 18 2011 07:35 prplhz wrote:Yea I'm gonna go ahead and vote now. ##Vote Skrammen Reason for this is that he just comes in 8 hours before day1 ends, casts and vote with 2 paragraphs of resonable and does not respond to our pleas that he post some more content. I am going to be honest with you and say that maybe he's not the one who is most likely to be scum but I think he's the most harmful for the town right now. If I should have voted for most likely to be scum I would vote for VisceraEyes for reasons I have already stated. Also his latest post is not really convincing me of anything else either. To answer the post VisceraEyes just made, the one that was mainly about me; No I don't control anybody Other than that I can't seem to find anything in your post I should need to comment on because mostly you're just saying that you disagree with what I said. Notice also that prplhz looked forward to Skrammen being modkilled. There is a low chance that a modkill is mafia(3 out of 12 people). This is only minor, but keep it in mind. More importantly notice how Giygas votes within 10 minutes of Prplhz.+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#157 On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen First of all, this is out of character for Giygas. He somehow used great parts of prplhz reasoning before prplhz used it. Coincidence? I think not. Prplhz has been whispering into Giygas ear to write exactly that. And at the end, like I said at the beginning, Prplhz changed his vote. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=11#220 On May 18 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: Yea this may be a huge mistake but if I'm gonna make it, it is going to be in the first game.
##Unvote Skrammen ##Vote GiygaS
My rationale:
The whole "vote for skrammen" thing was never about him being scum, it was about him being inactive and voting out of the blue. I think that we are going to have a lot better read on VisceraEyes, Mataza and Skrammen if we flip GiygaS, while flipping Skrammen will really give us nothing. Inactive players have hopefully learned their lesson.
Also I think it is very awesome that everybody voted, but it would be more awesome if everybody posted regularly too!
If he does not flip red I think the VisceraEyes is the best bid for a scum next time.
I'll probably be unavailable for the next 24 hours by way, and also for the first part of day1 but I will be here to answer questions just not to provide analysis. He did change his vote to get a better read or in other words, to get answers. But what was his reaction to Giygas being red? + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=12#235 On May 18 2011 11:26 prplhz wrote: I can't believe this.
A little short, no? I thought we wanted to get answers. Why would you be shocked *at all* at giygas flipping red? You don´t know who mafia is, so you kinda suspect everyone.
The solution: Prplhz puts up an act. This short answer is saying "I did not expect Giygas to be red" On the other hand, he put the nail in the coffin and cast the final vote on Giygas.
A clear contradiction.
4) Little things. Example a: A long post that talks about Viscera and Giygas turning on each other. Did this happen? I can´t remember that this happened at all. He also talked about him being a target for the nightkill, because he "has been rallying people" all day. I did not notice any of his rallying. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152 On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote:Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active.People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing )) + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=21 On May 20 2011 11:09 prplhz wrote:Hey I just want to clarify that what GiygaS said after his lynching should NOT be considered by anybody as evidence of anything. The game ends when you die but as the rules state you can make a GG post and that's what GiygaS did. It is very unfortunate that he did not stop his sentence 3 words and a smiley earlier but I am sure that he did not mean anything by it. I'll post more analysis later but I'm always up for questions directed at me. Here he wishes Giygas would have stopped his last comment 3 words earlier. Why could that be? My guess is that Giygas should have said something different. Nobody else cares about this little quip. I see no reason to even read something into that. So why does Prplhz do?
If you read Prplhz post history, look especially for him asking questions that derail us away from the question who is mafia. He often goes to "why would mafia do this" and other stuff. He especially talk often about things being harmful to town, but he never spoke about something being good for town. That is a scumtell, known along the line of "bashing bad ideas but never bringing forth any good ideas".
Prplhz is scum. I am as convinced as I was with Giygas. My vote stays ##vote Prplhz
Help me help you help win the game.
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@Palmar
My view is that he's supremely confident in his ability to lead this town...it's just that I, like others, have a problem with his most recent methodology. What I found after rereading his posts is that he's been acting like this the whole game, as he states. He never faltered in his suspicion of GiygaS once he'd set his sights. As GiygaS fate was decided last minute, I don't suspect Mataza played a part in that last-minute decision. HOWEVER - I don't appreciate how he's taking the stance that he's the only one who decides peoples fate in this town. Further, I believe that if we filp you, we'll have more information on prplhz. This is the reason I'm not voting with Mataza in spite of my belief that he is, in fact, Town.
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@Palmar I know my plan sounds insane. But if you work around all the numbers in the game it doesn´t sound that bad.
The game is set up in a way so town loses if we have 3 mislynches. We win the game when we lynch right 3 times. On the other hand blue roles are important, but not that important. Good play does not rely on blue roles doing all the work. There is a setup with no blue roles at all. If blue roles were crucial for success, town would have a 25% chance to be boned right from the start.
Also you have to keep in mind that if my plan works, we either get 1 scum if I was right from the start, or we get 2 scum, if the mafia make a mistake, or we get 3 confirmed innocents, if I was wrong.
Now 3 innocents doesn´t sound as good as getting scum. But mafia can only kill 1 person each night. Mafia would need 3 nights to recover. Also getting 3 innocents was the most unlikely scenario as it would mean my entire read was wrong and I got lucky catching Giygas.
In essence I am a gambler, but I am not dumb.
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Wait what? I am most likely town, and to get a read on my FoS, you instead kill me?
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EBWOP:
I should have used colors for the quotes in 3) voting affairs Right now lack of reasoning is underlined in both Giygas and prplhz comments, "an evil unknown" is in italic and dangerous and harmful are both in bold.
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Role setup + Show Spoiler +Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
1) Now it has been enough time to relatively safely assume we have no cop in the game. If this is true, it means we have 1 doc and no roleblockers ingame. But prplhz claimed to have been roleblocked.
@Mataza How can we realtively safely assume we have no cop? - its been one night? - one "scan" pr night - if the cop made a scan on a townie last night - how would we know the cop doesnt exist? (or maybe he just shuts up until he has checked out more players (he should) :p
I also have a question for everybody, what exactly is the mafias roleblocker role if theres no detective/doctor?
Happy huntin!
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The roleblocker is in the game so mafia don´t know the exact setup. It would be an unfair advantage if Mafia knew exactly which roles are in the game simply because they were gifted a role blocker.
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I assume no cop because no one gave off that particular vibe a cop has. Someone said I do, but I can´t judge myself.
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Thank you
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Mataza, I trust your analytical skills, but no one should take for fact what you're assuming based on your 'vibe' sense.
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Not everyone has voted...just under 7 hours peoples.
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Alright
@Viscera
At this time last day, we only had 4 votes if we don't count your stefftastiq vote. I don't think you should worry too much. I'm gonna vote around 3-4 hours before deadline as I did day1 (and as I said I would do day1). This is in around 3-4 hours.
If I am lynched today and I flip green you should lynch Mataza on day3, no matter what kind of defense he puts up. After that I would look at hiro protagonist and nard, one of which will probably be the last scum. If I flip red then you will obviously be in a good spot.
I'll be happy to answer any questions but I'm not going to directly respond to any of Mataza's accusations unless someone else directly requests that I do.
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Not even a comment on "why leaders are bad for town" but your next post talks about controlling the town?
That´s a sudden change of behaviour for which you gave no reasoning.
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Alright since nobody else is asking any questions I'll respond to you anyway.
One controlling many is bad. Many controlling one is good. Everybody having each other under control is very good. That's how I see it. You even highlighted it in your post:
While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control.
The keyword here being "town". Town is many. Town controlling someone is good.
I also gotta say I find it really weird that DeepBlue2 is voting for me out of the blue and threatening Mataza that if I turn out to be green he will go after him. If I am lynched and DeepBlue2 does not throw his vote at Mataza one hour into day3 it is going to be very suspicious. I also think that it is weird that DeepBlue2 does not care the slightest about my defense he just rushes into voting for me.
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The way I see it, you still have to bring something forward. You talk about things bad a lot, but up til now you never talked about something being good. You are not even trying.
And the only reason to not try is because anything good for town is bad for you. Viscera tries, Palmar tries, Karshe tried and even some of the less actives try. You didn´t.
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@Mataza
As I said before I don't really want to answer questions from you. If anybody else feel like asking me anything I'll answer them of course.
Since we're around though I think that we should consider what happens if the other dude is lynched and he flips green. What do you think would be the best thing for town to do during night2 and day3 if I'm lynched and I flip green?
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@Mataza
What do YOU think we should do if you are lynched and you flip green?
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The inactives aren't going to lynch Mataza...he's their champion. lmao
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On May 21 2011 04:42 prplhz wrote:
If I am lynched today and I flip green you should lynch Mataza on day3, no matter what kind of defense he puts up. After that I would look at hiro protagonist and nard, one of which will probably be the last scum. If I flip red then you will obviously be in a good spot.
prplhz already answered that VisEyes.
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I trust you (viseyes), deepblu
I don't know about skrammen, steffastiq, nard, prplhz
I'm very suspicious of hiro, mataza and wunder
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I haven't had the time to do analysis on Wunder yet, but if I recall correctly I think he bandwagoned the skrammen vote pretty hardcore, and now he's just following you to a pretty "safe" attack on me.
If you do manage to get me lynched VisEyes, make sure you pick the right allies to follow through with.
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So here we go
##Vote Mataza
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Apparently my superpower is to scare away the people that trusted me.
My playstyle may be different. But what I found in Prplhz posts is real. Right now he is counting on that nobody will ask him about my analysis.
Over half the people didn´t vote yet. If too many townies are modkilled we lose instantly
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Hell, if you really want lynch me. I don´t mind as long as you win the game after I am dead.
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*If you really want to, lynch me.
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Ok, I am at work, so I dont have a lot of time to explain my vote, but here it go's:
Mataza has been less then helpful day 2. there is so much scumminiss going on with his actions that i dont have time to point them all out. i will just point out a few.
1. He used his trust that he built with the town to try to get people to rolecall blue roles, and as everyone pointed out, thats a very bad idea for us, great for mafia, who are behind.
2. He wants to lynch prplhz. Really? the guy who's very last minute vote switch got us a scum lynch on day one in very dramatic fashion?
3. before prplhz vote switch, GiygaS was safe. This could have been planned between them both, with Mataza looking like a townie.
Im gonna put my money on Mataza is S to the scummy ummy.
##Vote Mataza
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When I flip green, I would say Prplhz has to explain himself towards my analysis. Talking a lot does not make him townie and it does not make me townie. Something else makes me town. What Prplhz didn´t do is bring anything positive forward as of yet. His single claim to fame is voteswitching to Giygas last second with inconsistent reasoning.
If you listen to him, you will probably waste your time talking about why the mafia could have done this and why the mafia could have done that. What you should be asking is who the mafia are.
If we have a cop and he didn´t claim, he should check Palmar this night. I think it´s important to have him cleared. I am sorry, I did not look into anyone else besides yet.
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If cop exists, he doesn't have time to check all the actives. And in fact, he'd be better off checking the inactives as we can ANALYZE the actives. You should know this, sir.
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Mataza, you're not going to get prplhz lynched tonight. Your little drama about the blues killed your credibility and no one trusts you anymore. It'd go a long way with the rest of town if you instead considered voting with someone else rather than off-voting prplhz today.
May I suggest Palmar since you think he's suspicious enough to warrant a cop checking him...
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@Mataza
I'd explain myself towards your analysis right now if anybody had any interest in it but apparently noone does. 90 minutes 'til dusk and we have like 4-5 votes missing?
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I would only consider Palmar when there is only one scum left. I suggest that instead of voting palmar you lynch me.
With my credibilty destroyed because people didn´t understand my gambit, I will be of no use to town anymore. I don´t think anybody would consider what I have to say as long as I still live.
If voting doesn´t get prplhz down, I will confirm my town status by voting myself.
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Phew. I fell asleep and i have about 20 minutes remaining.
@ Mataza
I find it very suspicious that you tell people to openly claim roles. This is not pro-town behaviour.
I find his reasoning for lynching prplhz to be very weird. I do not think the timing of the votes is very relevant. If he flips green, then I guess prplhz has some explaining to do.
##Vote Mataza
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Nice day of analysis!
Im voting this just because it seems like the same guys targeting Skrammen are now the same guys targeting Mataza hiro and Prplhz, going Prplhz just because Im more suspicius of him GL
##Vote Prplhz
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Of course I mean that hiro and Prplhz are targeting Mataza :-p bad comma mistake there
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United States22154 Posts
Votecount!
Palmar(2) VisceraEyes Wunder
Hiro Protagonist(1) Palmar
prplhz(3) Mataza DeepBlu2 stefftastiq
Mataza(4) nard prplhz hiro protagonist Skrammen
Mataza currently leading with four votes. about 1 hour left in the day. If I missed any votes let me know. It looks like everyone has voted ^_^
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why are Hiro and Palmar more scum than Prplhz?
+ Show Spoiler +18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends
if we compare these votingpatterns to the last voting patterns, we can se that both prplhz, hard and hiro protaganist teamed up on skrammen - they now team up on Mataza (with Skrammen randomly teaming up because of his looks upon Mataza)
This is solely based on how the voting looked at the last lynch, compared to this one (as far as recall) - ofcourse other people voted as well - but they havent voted yet
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@ stefftastiq
prplhz and I voted for different people.
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@VisEyes
My effiort for a hiro lynch seems to not be going anywhere. Deepblu2 is the other person I trust, and he voted for purplehaze, but between the two, I'm inclined to think Mataza's destructive behavior regarding the blue roles smells more of scum, than purplehaze's randomness.
One thing I'm almost certain of, is that they're not both mafia. I have strong cases against both wunder and hiro protagonist, and I think one of those two must definitely be scum.
Which one do you think is more likely to be scum? I want to say Mataza, but hiro voted for him which is something I find very suspicious, and is a reason for me to stay awake until the lynching so I can help counter any last-minute switches.
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yeah, him changing votes can kind seem like a 'cover up' for not all mafias voting for the same people in the same round, hiro and prplz still seems like the "most obvious" to me for some reason - and I belive that Mataza is town just by the amount of effort he puts into trying figuring out who mafia is - I might be fooled tho :-)
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Interesting stefftastiq, because my exact problem with mataza has been the effort he put in power roles that may or may not exist, instead of hunting mafia. To the point he created a plan that might have pulled short-sighted inexperienced players into doing really stupid things that would hurt the town.
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@Palmar
Why do you trust Deepblu2 ?
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@stefftastiq
I have two reasons to believe DeepBlu2 is town-side.
First, I accused him in day 1. He did not overreact to the accusation but instead calmly collected his thoughts and analysed the potential scum.
Second, his analysis in the first day was correct. He was the first person to actually cast a vote against GiygaS, and he did not change it from there.
His entire play seems consistent and town oriented, if a little inactive. If DeepBlu2 is mafia, he is at least playing a very well covered game.
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Okay...Mataza, my Palmar push fails as your prplhz push does. ##Unvote ##Vote Mataza
This is about voting with the town as I believe solidarity is important in the days ahead. I'm certain that either myself or Palmar (the most active of the remaining players left) will die in the night. This is going to put the town in a VERY VERY precarious situation if Mataza flips green. I really hope you inactives know what you're doing. Mataza did.
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@Palmar
if Mataza would show up to be scum - well, we will see that later, and maybe we might be fooled no more.
If the remaining mafia would be hiro, prplz and mataza - of those three mataza are the one i least believe is mafia - so it would be no problem saving his lynch for later giving him more time to prove he is not. - as for both of the other players more people have made up an opinion those in between and spread themselves on the two of them instead of all of 'townies' vote for the same.
This is exciting :-)
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@stefftastiq
One of the best scum-tells is that scum tend to overreact to accusation. Obviously the scum knows this, so they will try to stay calm when accused, but you can often pick up little signs of panic in even well constructed responses.
One more thing DeepBlu2 did well, when he mistakenly said that hiro had explained himself, and I corrected him, he just accepted the correction and moved on. Mataza however seems intent on not getting corrected.
Unwillingness to change your opinion is bad for the town.
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@Palmar
True - I just feel like Mataza is being lynched based on the wrong accusations - but I guess we will see soon
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On May 21 2011 10:44 stefftastiq wrote: of those three mataza are the one i least believe is mafia - so it would be no problem saving his lynch for later giving him more time to prove he is not.
This is a very good point, I've been trying to spread the word, but to no avail. I'm glad someone understands it.
Finding inactive mafia is always more important than finding active mafia, because it's so much easier to analyse someone that has 100 posts, than someone that has 3 posts.
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@Palmar
And that's been one of the main reasons I have been confident that Mataza is scum. I think that since I posted that I think he's scum he's been acting very weird in his defense and in his counter accusations. I think that if he had remained more collected I would have had serious seconds thoughts by now, like I had day1. But I just think he panicked a lot and VisceraEyes kinda reaffirmed that for me and this is going to be terrible if it turns out that he's green but for some reason not keeping himself together.
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##Unvote
##Vote hiro protagonist
ok - rethought some things! gl
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@prplhz
Well that's one of my big problems with the Mataza lynch. He's either bad townie or mafia. If he's bad townie you can't read too much into the votes casted against him, because while I haven't voted for him myself, I fully understand anyone that makes the decision to vote for him.
So yeah, I'm worried that this lynch will not give us enough information.
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Maybe it's because I'm new at this game so I consider him more savvy than you probably do, as you seem to be somewhat familiar with this game or at least "better" than I am. Anybody who is as good as I think Mataza is is mafia because he's not that bad a townie.
@stefftastiq
Weird timing for doing something that has no effect on the game at all
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@Viscera I wish you luck going into day 3.
@Palmar Your fear got the better of you. You should step up your game dramatically.
@Prplhz I hope you die next. With this little interest from town, you might have already won.
If our blue role was a vigilante, I could see why he is important. I cannot understand why Doctor did what he did. But the COP is only good if he works with the town before he dies without saying a word.
GG
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United States22154 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:54 GMarshal wrote:
Votecount!
Palmar(1)
VisceraEyes Wunder
Hiro Protagonist(2) Palmar stefftastiq
prplhz(2) Mataza DeepBlu2
stefftastiq
Mataza(5) nard prplhz hiro protagonist Skrammen VisceraEyes
Mataza currently leading with five votes. about 2 minutes left in the day. If I missed any votes let me know. It looks like everyone has voted ^_^
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@prplhz
Yeah, i know - makes me looks like a undecisive schmuck or something - I just vote in that order I would like to see people lynched - who knows, others could have changed too :-p
If Mataza shows up to be Mafia it would just be "two more steps" down the road for my "hit list" for lynsjing - if he shows up to be townie tho Ill probably regret writing this post ;-p - But then a lot more people would be wrong too soo
this is exciting
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United States22154 Posts
Mataza lynched, night post soonish ^_^
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Btw people, learn to count. There are only 2 scum left.
If you still go ahead and put suspects up in groups of 3, it won´t lead anywhere....
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@Mataza
I think they're more saying that the 2 remaining maf will be in that group of 3...but whatever. GG Mataza - I'm sure I'll be seeing you around in other games.
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@Mataza
GG - Regardless of your soon to be announced role it's been fun playing with you!
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People just don´t understand a good gamble. Getting 2 confirmed innocents in one day is good. Getting 3 is great. It would take the mafia 3 nights to eradicate them all.
Whatever.
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United States22154 Posts
Night 2:
This last day had been decided decisively, and quickly had the decisions been made. The votes were fast and brutal today. Before noon had arrived, enough votes had been placed upon Mataza as to behoove a lynching.
As a mob descended upon his house, they found him in the garden, tending to his vegetable farm.. They encircled him and though he complained and contested their claims, they set upon him with his very own gardening tools. They were sure. But alas, his blood told a different tale.
Mataza the Vanilla Townie has been lynched
Get your actions to me and chaoser within 24 hours, please.(Also chaoser wrote this post, thank/blame him!)
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Damnit. I'ma kill you freaking inactives.
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yeah - well, that sux
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Ah fuck. The people who voted for Mataza didn't really think of the implications. What does this achieve? That the doubters of Mataza are now all possible mafia?
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You guys are retarded. Please listen to me. I said not to lynch him and to lynch purplehaze. Mataza has done nothing but help the town and I don't understand why you guys would lynch him. I honestly just gave up hope and I don't if I can provide analysis if you guys will just ignore it and make a bad decision. Vis, I'm incredibly dissapointed in you for being a frontrunner as well as the others. You decreased our chances of winning significantly.
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Well, if it's any consolation, I'll likely die before the night is up.
I'd like to publicly apologize for absolutely ensuring Mataza's demise today. To speak to Blu's comment, all I can say is that I voted with the majority because town have to stick together. WE decided to lynch Mataza and now we have to move on. Before I post my final thoughts, I'd like to urge EVERYONE to go back and analyze the last few cycles. Town now HAS to get results or Mafia wins. Disregard ALL suspicion you have and read everything over objectively. There's enough information contained in the posts (or lack of posts) to identify the remaining scum.
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well that sucks. feeling kinda guilty as i was the first one to vote on matazar..
also i'm pretty alone with my thinking of hiro being a good guy - not really confident in my analysis skillz right now D:
now what do we get out of the death of matazar in terms of focusing on the next lynch? obviously we should wait with throwing ideas around till after the night is over, but im pretty lost atm.
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Well, fuck. I dun goof'd now.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
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It's fine...just go back and figure out why he died. It's clear that Karshe died as a result of someone aiming to get this result. Perhaps the guilty one is whomever defended Mataza to Karshe d1? Or whomever was eerily silent during any kind of exchanges between Mataza and Karshe? I don't know. But the fact remains that he was pretty obviously green, but a majority of us decided to vote for him anyway. By my estimation, that was because of his drama with the blue roles.
All is not lost guys, stop acting like this is over since Mataza is gone. Just go back and read. Read twice or 3 times. Take the guy you suspect the least and make a huge post dissecting THEIR posts.
For my part, I'll be posting my final thoughts in a bit...I'm going to a Rapture Party tonight, so I won't find out that I'm dead until tomorrow morning.
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Mataza's death was unfortunate, and I think unexpected. By both the town and the mafia. I doubt the killing of Karshe has much to do with setting up Mataza, because Mataza never would've been lynched without his blatantly crazy idea for exposing blue roles.
The mafia would never have been able to guess he'd set himself up so nicely. I have much more interest in the people who switched their votes to Mataza after he painted that target on his ass. The problem is that there's also townies who simply voted him because he was doing bad stuff for the town... which is not a bad idea!
I would advise everyone to step up their activity in the thread. There are several people in the game that have yet to be analysed, and I think it's healthy for the town to get discussion going on every possible scum candidate. Another thing we should do is have a look back at is Mataza's posts. They may not be correct, but remember that he is now a confirmed townie, so we know everything he said was said with honest intentions.
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I just realized that we have one thing going for us...Since Mataza was green, there's a distinct possibility that we have a cop and doc still alive in the game.
This could save my life as Mafia might try and hunt those guys rather than kill me. Several hundred of my hairs are crossed, so I'll keep my fingers poised to type instead of crossing them.
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I request that town give serious thought to voting for prplhz tomorrow in Mataza's memory...he gave his life trying to take this one down, and I think we owe it to him to honor his dying wishes.
He didn't care about dying, he wanted to win. He thought taking prplhz down was important to him. Important enough to say things that ultimately got him lynched. Please consider this during the vote tomorrow.
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I'm gonna go ahead and compile another list of votes and time here it is along with the first one.
Day1 votelist: + Show Spoiler + 11:00 Day1 starts 11:00 Day1 Half way through 18:01 VisceraEyes -> stefftastiq 18:59 Palmar -> DeepBlue2 19:54 DeepBlue2 -> GiygaS 01:00 Mataza -> GiygaS 01:39 VisceraEyes -> () 02:48 Skrammen -> GiygaS 07:25 GiygaS -> Skrammen 07:35 prplhz -> Skrammen 07:51 VisceraEyes -> prplhz 09:01 VisceraEyes -> () 09:01 VisceraEyes -> GiygaS 09:05 Karshe -> Skrammen 09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 09:58 stefftastiq -> GiygaS 10:08 nard -> Skrammen 10:55 prplhz -> () 10:55 prplhz -> GiygaS 11:00 Voting ends
Day2 votelist: + Show Spoiler + 11:00 Day2 starts 19:18 VisceraEyes -> Palmar 21:11 Palmar -> hiro protagonist 09:51 Mataza -> prplhz 11:00 Day2 Half way through 21:23 nard -> Mataza 23:11 Wunder -> Palmar 23:48 DeepBlu2 -> prplhz 07:27 prplhz -> Mataza 08:26 hiro protagonist -> Mataza 09:48 Skrammen -> Mataza 09:49 stefftastiq -> prplhz 10:44 VisceraEyes -> () 10:44 VisceraEyes -> Mataza 10:53 stefftastiq -> () 10:53 stefftastiq -> hiro protagonist 11:00 Voting ends
Some facts about the voting: Of the 5 people who voted for Skrammen on day1; GiygaS and Karshe are gone, hiro protagonist and nard voted for Mataza on day2, Wunder voted for Palmar on day2.
Of the 6 people who voted for GiygaS on day1; Mataza and DeepBlu2 voted for prplhz on day2, Skrammen, VisceraEyes and prplhz voted for Mataza on day2, stefftastiq voted for Palmar on day2.
Of the 1 people who voted for DeepBlu2 on day1; Palmar voted for hiro protagonist on day2.
People whose votes got somebody lynched on both days (lynching one scum and one townie): hiro protagonist, nard, Skrammen, VisceraEyes and prplhz.
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EBWODP:
Okay that's not right, only Skrammen, VisceraEyes and prplhz got somebody lynched on both days.
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T_T
Mataza, WHY??? it makes no sense to me for you to have acted the way you did...
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As I don't have a lot of time to do much else before the murder tonight, I'm just going to say that if you don't vote for prplhz and Palmar for the next two lynches, well, let's just say there's a REASON you're sitting here reading this and not ascended up to heaven.
Thank you, that is all.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hmm, I don't have time to do the analysis, but I'll say this much, looking at the votelist from two days ago as well as the general back and forth in the posts, I have a heavy FoS on Prplhz. This is due to the fact that he swung the vote against GiygaS, meaning the third scum convinced him to let GiygaS go as he wasn't a great scum player.
This is backed up by his vote against Mataza, who tried to come up with a plan to expose at least one scum in the process. Unfortunately it was stopped by a starting vote by nard, and then followed by Prplhz, hiro, Skrammen, and most importantly VisceraEyes. Now Vis, why did you suddenly change your vote from being so adamantly against Palmar?
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 12:30 GiygaS wrote:Finally, more then 3 people talking! Welcome to the game prp and nard, nice to see some europeans now. Inactives:2 Guys we haven't seen, may get modkilled. Can't make an opinion on them yet. Karshe: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't really posted anything good at all. Might get modkilled, I don't know about him.
stefftastiq: + Show Spoiler + Hasen't posted much but a brief "hello". Mentionned something about people being trigger-happy. I'm a tad suspicious as he should have posted again by now.
Deepblu2 + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 05:41 DeepBlu2 wrote: I am here. This is off to a good start. I am active..Not sure who I think atm. On May 17 2011 11:57 DeepBlu2 wrote: I'm leaning towards Mataza at the moment. I'm not positive yet but just the fact he's defending himself so aggressively and has been caught with a couple of contradictions while blaming others as well. I'm going to be keep looking at his posts but he's my only suspect currently. I'm not saying it's definitely Mataza just the way he's handling himself is very defensive. Deepblu just posted so I haven't really had a chance to analyse his most recent post, but I'll give it a shot. His first post detailed how he's indeed "active" and he's formulating an opinion. Initially a bit scummy, if he hadn't posted anything, but he has now, so that lowers a bit of his suspicion. Based on his recent entry, he's leaning towards Mataza, based on his defensive stance. Overall, hasen't really produced much content, so I can't really say much about him. More active people:Mataza + Show Spoiler +Now, this guy seems a bit scummy to me, PROBABLY the most so far. The reasons have been brought up already: - He's implying he wants to become A leader of the town (maybe so he can control people? I don't know) - He is very defensive about his spot, very resilient to abandon anything. I don't know if this means he's mafia, but a person who goes out his way to say he's innocent seems a bit guilty :/ - Mentioned how many days Mafia has to stay alive. Good just be some helpful math. - HOWEVER after all this, he said he puts himself officially on trial. And he will only answer questions specifically asked at him. This implies he knows he has done wrong and wants to get a bit out of the spotlight. This is most likely because he's tired of constantly defending himself, but it could also be that he's Mafia and wants to sink back in to the shadows. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Also, he's got my name wrong twice now (it's not gigays, or gigas, it's giygas ) VisceraEyes: + Show Spoiler + Got into Mataza as soon as the game begun, might just because he wants activity. The fact he HAS been avoiding questions to attack Mataza some more, which may imply he's trying to avoid them so that he doesn't have any answers. Don't know what I think of him, a bit suspicious.
prplhz (anyone got tricks for this guy's name? ) + Show Spoiler + Seems very rational to me. Got some more discussion other then the back and forth between me, Mataza and VisceraEyes. Seems very pro-town to me, but once again, your best friends can sometimes be your worst enemies. I'm not very suspicious of him.
nard + Show Spoiler +Kind of interesting. This guy has posted three times. Once to remind us all that it's too early to start making conclusions about Mataza, one that reminds us all that we have 48 hours before we have to make a decision and to take some time, and finally one that answers some suspicions on his first post, and saying he's not too suspicious of Mataza, and suspicous of me and Viscera (more Viscera). I don't know what this means, but IF we find out that Mataza is indeed a Mafia, I believe this guy is probably a cohort based on his behind-the-scenes support for the guy. I'm a bit suspicious of him. Palmar: + Show Spoiler + Has mostly mentioned inactives and getting some debate going on that topic. He may just be curious. That said, he was the first one to mention and notice Nard's post on being saying it was difficult to post the first time. Hasen't really added a lot of real content, but I believe he's pro-town. Only the minutest amount of suspicion.
hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves... That's his only post. Unfortunately, we don't get any background info on what country he lives in, so we can't analyse when he'll post. Unfortunate :/ The fact that he did add SOMETHING (scum have probably posted) shows he MIGHT be pro-town in his behavior. Don't know what to think on him due to inactivity. EDIT: Okay, he just posted another one that added a bit more content, so I moved him down here. Basically listing his suspicions. Seem's a bit more mafia now to be honest based on his bandwagonning to everyone else, but he may just agree with some people. EDIT: Yes, this is my first time EVER playing mafia, so this is a new experience for me. i'm gonna be interested to see if anything else develops.
This is GiygaS first real content post. Please note that the only two people he doesn't really suspect are Palmar and prplhz.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 02:43 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 18 2011 12:26 Palmar wrote: Alright, turns out he was indeed a terrible mafia!
This definitely isn't a bad start. I still worry about the amount of information we have, but I guess that can be remedied in the coming days.
First thing to do is try not to overthink the situation. There is a chance the mafia might have voted for Giyg as soon as they saw him as a potential target, but the obvious and much more accessible solution is to approach the problem from the point of view that mafia didn't vote for mafia.
So unless any major clues get revealed, the first thing to do is to analyse and understand everyone that got on the wrong side of the vote, and try to find out who was genuinely wrong and who had malicious intent.
Karshe Hiro Protagonist Wunder Nard Palmar
It's more than likely that both the remaining mafia can be found in this list.
I will break down everyone's posts in this list, except of course myself, that's a job for someone else, and provide analysis in the coming day. Here's my problem with your approach here Palmar. Everyone on that list voted for Skrammen for one reason: Because he's inactive and you (among others) were gunning hard for inactives the ENTIRE GAME. I don't even have to analyze your posts...they all say the same thing. "Inactives are a threat to this town, we must get rid of them first." What I find interesting is that after spending all game saying this, the very first post you make after we find some scum is "Forget inactives...let's start looking for scum now!" As Mataza pointed out, 2 of the 4 most inactive players voted rightly for who they thought was scum. The other 2 bandwaggoned on someone more inactive than they are. I mean, great success on the first day might render my approach irrelevant in this game, but you can't count on every game getting lucky with a loud-mouth the first day. Sometimes that same loud-mouth will be a bad townie. I don't want to lynch inactives. I want to threaten them with a lynch to the point they are forced to contribute to the game, and then we can start scumhunting. While written information for analysis is the best way to approach scum hunt, as I'm sure both you and mataza will agree with me in, vote patterns are also something you can base scum-hunting on. I am all for putting pressure on inactive people to step up and provide us with information, but I did not get much support for it last night, so I'll just admit... I'm kind of giving up on that approach, and gonna go with the ammunition I have at hand to get the baddies. I had a bad read on Gyig, looks like I had a good read on Mataza. I actually thought they were both townies pointing fingers at each other. But yeah, Mataza looks really clean now. But listen up here:I'm going to retract my first statement about only analysing the people who did not vote for Giyg. I went back and re-read all his posts, and he's so chaotic and bad, that there is a possibility of the mafia simply throwing him under the bus to gain trust, because he was always going to get lynched anyway. I'm not going to start pointing fingers just yet, but someone like purplehaze looks really damn safe now after being the deciding vote that got a mafia lynched. It's not far-fetched to think that any smart mafia would consider throwing their useless buddy under the bus to buy safety. Lastly:It is important to no end that VisEyes and Mataza leave their thoughts in this thread before day breaks, you two are by fare the most likely mafia targets. Of the townies that actually contributed on day one, myself and Kersha are probably safe, seeing as it'll be easy to convince the town to vote against us. purplehaze is in a weird spot, but I don't think he'll get murdered. Might post your thoughts anyway though.
As I pointed out in the post referenced, I remain VERY suspicious of Palmar's decision to keep his post on DeepBlu2. Not only was the rest of town voting between Giygas and Skrammen, but his reasoning for keeping his vote on DeepBlu2 was 'Well, I saw no reason to change. I wanted them both out of the game, and one of them was going home' What I find interesting is that he viewed it from such a departed standpoint. WE (rest of Town) were already voting. I find this VERY suspicious because rather than taking a stand with the rest of his 'team', he let everyone else decide the fate of the lynch d1...as if he were a scum trying to not be on the wrong side of the lynch. Not to mention the fact that he states in VERY BOLD LETTERS I DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH INACTIVES - I WANT TO FORCE THEM INTO ACTIVITY WITH VOTES...but he doesn't change his vote when DeepBlu2 posts analysis THE VERY NEXT POST...he sticks with DeepBlu2 in spite of that. Based on shaky reasoning and absolutely NO analysis beyond "Oh, well, he bandwagoned."....most of the votes that day were bandwagon votes...and you know what? Mafia got lynched.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 06:57 VisceraEyes wrote:Allow me to offer up another, perhaps more likely scenario. One that doesn't rely on utter noobiness as the basis of its believability. Revisiting my scumlist we see that I had prplhz, Palmar and GiygaS. For this example, I'm going to assume you're all three mafia. At any rate, before your switch, we see that you and GiygaS were both voting for Skrammen. Not only does this effectively block the vote for GiygaS, but it allows Palmar to Off-vote (vote for someone NO ONE ELSE is voting for..very scummy behavior at the end of the day) to ensure that even if in the event someone switches last minute, he could swoop in and recast his vote for Skrammen. Good. Great. But then we take into account the fact that A) GiygaS is highly under suspicion of the most active (and most accurate so far) scumhunter, Mataza and B) He's playing bad scum and C) Mafia can converse with each other, it isn't far-fetched to believe that a last-minute switch from inactive Skrammen to obvScum GiygaS would not only clear your name ("See? I voted for scum too!", but pave the way for Palmar to then go on a witch-hunt of those who voted against GiygaS lynch. "But VE, why wouldn't Palmar just vote for GiygaS himself?" you might be asking...well, if you'll read the rules, the person with the most votes first is the target in the event of a tie...which would've resulted in Skrammen getting lynched anyway. BOOM HEADSHOT. GG Maf. Fire away...I don't even NEED to post anymore! Mataza, this is what's happening. They can't kill us both. I suggest Palmar first as he appears to be the brains. prplhz won't know how to cope.
I included this post because it outlines my prediction of how the first day's lynch went down. Now that Mataza has flipped green, I feel absolutely confident that this is an accurate assessment of what happened.
Also to add to this prediction, I feel it's worth noting that Palmar and prplhz haven't voted together YET in this game. As town we have to try and come to a consensus on who to vote off...as Mafia, it's dangerous to vote with your buddies as voting patterns can be analyzed. A common defense to this is to try and fool the town into voting who you want off, and voting seperately from your scum friends. Obviously this is a WIFOM scenario, but I do find it extremely convenient for them that one cannot put them together based on voting patterns.
To close, I know I've been a very outspoken and peculiar character in this game. I know I've come close to quitting and leaving you all to deal with this mess without me...I'm sure some of you wish I had. I just want to say that this has been a VERY fun game and I've enjoyed playing it with you. (even the inactives ) Hopefully I'll survive the night and I'll get to play with you guys more when dawn breaks.
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@Wunder
I stated this in the vote post, but I switched my vote to vote with town. It's going to be VERY important in the next few cycles. I realize that bandwagon voting is suspicious, but I stand by my vote and will not apologize for it further.
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and i voted for prplz first, but changed to hiro protagonist
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Of the 6 people who voted for GiygaS on day1; Mataza and DeepBlu2 voted for prplhz on day2, Skrammen, VisceraEyes and prplhz voted for Mataza on day2, stefftastiq voted for Palmar on day2.
oh, that was just a correction for prplz post earlier, didnt realize there were more posts
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United States22154 Posts
Day 3
After a fear filled night of waiting for the sun to rise again the town awoke ready to hunt some mafia, well, some of the town awoke at least. DeepBlu2 did not. He was found dead in his house, his throat slit, spreadsheet after spreadsheet open on his laptop, with meticulously written notes about voting patterns and likely mafia candidates. Apparently he had been so busy trying to find the mafia he had failed to hear the murder sneaking into his house.
DeepBlu2 the vanilla townie , is dead!
The day has begun and someone must be lynched! You have 48 hours to get your votes in.
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Little did he know
Good luck people.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Fantastic. I'm pretty staunch on my vote today, so I will throw it out immediately.
##Vote: Palmar
From the evidence that VisEyes has presented, it is clear that Palmar is one of the 2 remaining scum and that he was simply waiting for instruction, but prplhz took action and got rid of GiygaS at the last minute. I'm not too sure who the other scum is, but the possibility of it being prplhz or VisEyes is quite high.
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I live.
##Vote: Palmar
...I'm just getting started!
I agree with a vote for Palmar because DeepBlu2 was Palmar's target d1 and it's reasonable to assume that after the mafia missed their suspect for a PR n1 they went for the easiest candidate that suspected them n2.
And since DeepBlu2 was suspicious of prplhz, he seems like a safe candidate for lynch d3 if Palmar flips red, for obvious reasons (at least to me...)
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Good morning town! Interesting that you find it "Fantastic" DeepBlu2 is dead Wunder.
You were never in any danger of dying VisEyes. As long as you keep up the crusade to get me lynched you're providing a great distraction.
Just to quickly summarize. Your current argument against me is that I did not switch my vote day 1. But I wonder, where should I have switched my vote to? If I went for skrammen, I would be ensuring (remember, that at this point prplhz hadn't switched his vote) the death of an inactive, which I've told you countless times is not my goal.
The other option was to go after someone who was really loud. At the time I didn't know he was a mafia. Here's the post where I explained to Mataza my reasoning for not switching to GiygaS. I honestly believed back then that everyone in the game would eventually step up and provide content.
On May 18 2011 02:23 Palmar wrote:I want to keep him because I'm not afraid of him. What I'm afraid of is going into day two with very little or no information about half the players in the game. How on earth are you going to analyse who is mafia amongst the people that have hardly said anything so far in the game? Any information is better than no information. This is why I don't want to just let everyone bandwagon you in the first place, and then Gyig now. I want one of the people that aren't contributing against the wall. Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 02:01 Mataza wrote: Common sense: Active mafia will try to disrupt town conversation. Bad town might do that as well. Both are bad for town.
This is very much true. But I'd rather have to filter through tons of bad information injected by mafia, than having no information at all and just playing a guessing game. Actually, here's a promise for you, if everyone comes into the thread, contributes and makes good analysis of the situation, I will switch my vote to GiygaS and help you get him lynched.
In hindsight, I of course wish I had listened to Mataza, because then I probably would be busy hunting scum rather than explaining why I am not one.
Anyway, I'm much more interested in breaking down Mataza's lynch and DeepBlu2's death.
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Fantastic. I'm pretty staunch on my vote today, so I will throw it out immediately.
##Vote: Palmar
From the evidence that VisEyes has presented, it is clear that Palmar is one of the 2 remaining scum and that he was simply waiting for instruction, but prplhz took action and got rid of GiygaS at the last minute. I'm not too sure who the other scum is, but the possibility of it being prplhz or VisEyes is quite high.
@Wunder
if VisEyesare the other mafia - why should you vote for Palmar, based on his theory?
These two sudden votes seems strange :[
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yep - 2 really fast votes with imo not enough analysis behind em. we have fourty-something hours left and should use it to discuss, not cast votes immediately.. this behaviour only favors mafia.
please put some time into it and get a proper analysis / reasoning done, even if you end up voting on the same guys.
i guess i have to start from scratch again now that deepblu2 is dead - is mafia trying to discredit me or what? lol
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nard, you don't have to start from scratch... I think.
You are the one that did the original analysis on DeepBlu2. Your conclusion may have been wrong, but your effort is still valid.
Re-do your analysis, adding in everything DeepBlu2 said from the point you accused him until the point where he got killed, and look at it all from the point of view we now know that DeepBlu2 was innocent.
As for myself, I will be working on an analysis on prplhz. While I can't be certain he's guilty at the moment, when I go back and re-read the thread, knowing Mataza and DeepBlu2 had honest intentions and both accused prplhz, I feel there is desperate need to re-visit his entire posting history.
Perhaps he's just unlucky, perhaps he got set up. But perhaps his lack of accusation towards myself has blinded me to his true intentions.
It seems like a very dangerous thing to do... accusing prplhz. Mataza and DeepBlu2 paid with their lives.
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I think nard might be on to something with Wunder so I'm gonna revisit all of his 16 posts now.
+ Show Spoiler +LinkOn May 18 2011 09:50 Wunder wrote:Hey guys! Sorry I've been so inactive, didn't know the game moved so fast I'm reading through the pages now, so I will edit this post to cast my vote. + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:56 Wunder wrote: Wow, looks like I got in just under the clock. Whew.
I haven't played forum mafia before, and I've only played the SC2 mod of it, but that seems to take a few rules from F11's version and adds some new roles in it too. But I generally dislike having a lynch day one, although it seems to be mandatory, so I'm going to go with the safer option here and vote for
##Vote: Skrammen + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 10:00 Wunder wrote: I think there's one hour? Good thing I woke up early today.
His two first posts came 1 hour before deadline on day1. Judging from their timestamps he apparently read through 8 pages of posts in 6 minutes. The only posts inbetween his first two posts are; one from Karshe saying "welcome" and Mataza commenting on him arriving just in the nick of time.
Analysis I think his false claim to having read 8 pages of posts in 6 minutes is so blatant that he is not trying to trick us. I think he just doesn't want to say "Hey everybody, I'm gonna bandwagon because I didn't put any effort into this game at all so far" because that would pretty much ruin the fun for everybody else. So I really think he showed up late. In the third post he correctly answers the question "when do we have to vote?". I don't think there's a real scum-tell here so he'll get the benefit of the doubt.
+ Show Spoiler +LinkOn May 18 2011 18:18 Wunder wrote: Hi! Sorry, can dead people still post? Probably not, right?
Anyways, sorry for the wrong vote - decided to go with the safer vote rather than have a bunch of suspect innocents. I'll hopefully participate more tomorrow!
Just to clarify, we can PM anyone here right? To have like secret conversations?
This post was made 7 hours into night1. One of our awesome and lovely hosts GMarshal promptly answers his question.
Analysis You could say that Wunder was only wondering about this because he really did not know about this. I think that if he was scum it would be very likely that one of his scum companions had already PM'd him so in that case he should have known. I think this is a slight townie-tell.
+ Show Spoiler +LinkOn May 19 2011 19:52 Wunder wrote: I may have stepped too deep here, the level of analysis is quite mindboggling. I'd love to contribute, but I'm not sure how or where to start, even after reading a lot of the newbie guides... One thing that can be said though is that VisEyes, Palmar and Mataza are all very active, and I do believe at least one of them is Mafia.
Sadly, I don't have much proof and I'm not sure how all of you guys have to time to sift through and analyze everyone's posts :< what does FoSing someone actually do, other than make your suspicions more concrete?
I will try to monitor this situation more, but I think a lot of my opinions are siding with VisEyes right now, though I'm not sure why. + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 20:00 Wunder wrote: @Palmar: But what does that entail? Does it just mean that everyone knows you think that X is mafia? Is that all it does?
Also, I agree with VisEyes that all his calls, though a bit irrational, are somewhat based from the information in front of him. I do think that purplehaze could be suspicious, and that him and the other mafioso turned GiygaS in, in an attempt to throw a few people off their tail. I currently have my eye of both Palmar and PurpleHaze + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 20:17 Wunder wrote:@Nard: pretty nice post, and... pretty bad pun I agree somewhat with your analysis, however I doubt a lot of the inactive people would be mafia, especially since reading the newbie guide one would assume mafioso to be active, rather than inactive. + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 20:30 Wunder wrote:@Palmar: Oh. Ok That makes sense then. FoS on Palmar and PurpleHaze@VisEyes: I agree. Palmar's argument and evidence against you have been somewhat shakey, though I'd have to go through and analyze it word for word ><
These posts were made 9-11 hours into day2. Within 3 hours before both VisceraEyes and Palmar had posted some very comprehensive analysis with VisceraEyes FoS'ing Palmar and I quite heavily, Palmar somewhat calmly defending us both. Before the 3rd post in this series nard posted some analysis of hiro protagonist, DeepBlu2, me and Palmar, mostly suspicious of DeepBlu2.
Analysis He is continuing his newbie/bandwagon act. In his second post I think it's worth noticing that he is using the phrase "information in front of him". This sounds a lot like he knows about WIFOM. If he knows about WIFOM then how can it be that he asks silly questions about FoS? Both terms should be easily google-able anyway yet he goes out of his way to ask about it on the forums. Seems like he might be going out of his way to inform everybody that he is newbie and that he does not have too much time for this game.
+ Show Spoiler +LinkOn May 20 2011 16:05 Wunder wrote: Wait, so what's happening here? PurpleHaze is claiming he got roleblocked and so we have a potential roleblocker and with that, either 8 vanilla townies, or 6 vanilla townies, 1 doctor and a Detective.
Mataza is claiming he knows who the doctor is because of 'observational skills'. I doubt a mafia would openly expose himself to such a thing as the only guarantee he'd know is if he was a mafia and one of them roleblocked the doctor, thus sealing the only way Karshe could have survived.
Am I right in this analysis? o-o + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 16:06 Wunder wrote: Also, when do we have to vote? + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 23:11 Wunder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 20:28 stefftastiq wrote: its also noteworth that Karshe also voted for skrammen - though he was town -which kind of proves that votingpattern isnt bound to make that player scum or town,
Aha, this is something important that hadn't been addressed. If mafia were apart of the offvoter group, why would they narrow it down further by killing off an innocent offvoter? That doesn't mean that all offvoters are suddenly innocent, but it does make it a somewhat level playing field. Unfortunately I won't be able to stay up to read the rest of the day's discussion, so I'm going to have to bandwagon again. The 4 votes already cast are all over the place, but I think there's one person here that currently stands out relative to the other active posters. ##Vote: Palmar
These first two posts were made 19 hours before deadline day2. The third was made 12 hours before deadline day2.
Analysis These posts are the first of his with any real content. He's very vaguely claiming that Mataza is innocent and asking a question to which he probably already knows the answer, as he's posted it before. In the end he votes for Palmar with close to no reasonable.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2011 11:41 Wunder wrote: Ah fuck. The people who voted for Mataza didn't really think of the implications. What does this achieve? That the doubters of Mataza are now all possible mafia? + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2011 22:00 Wunder wrote: you dun goof'd. + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2011 09:31 Wunder wrote: Hmm, I don't have time to do the analysis, but I'll say this much, looking at the votelist from two days ago as well as the general back and forth in the posts, I have a heavy FoS on Prplhz. This is due to the fact that he swung the vote against GiygaS, meaning the third scum convinced him to let GiygaS go as he wasn't a great scum player.
This is backed up by his vote against Mataza, who tried to come up with a plan to expose at least one scum in the process. Unfortunately it was stopped by a starting vote by nard, and then followed by Prplhz, hiro, Skrammen, and most importantly VisceraEyes. Now Vis, why did you suddenly change your vote from being so adamantly against Palmar?
These posts are from 40 minutes after deadline day2, 11 hours after deadline day2, and 22 hours after deadline day2.
Analysis First post here appears to be a townie flustered with the lynching of a townie. Second post is not worth my attention :D Third post is another bandwagon as well as somewhat shallow analysis.
Conclusion I do not think there is anything overly suspicious about this guy. He genuinely appears to be somewhat new at forum mafia. His analysis is short and shallow and he hasn't really attracted too much attention so far. Either he's a very good scum or a not too great townie (sorry dude ). I'm gonna go with the latter.
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EBWOP
Apparently nard wasn't accusing Wunder of anything btw :D But I only noticed that half way through my analysis and then I thought "what the hell, lets just finish this up".
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Alright I'm gonna do a bit on hiro protagonist now.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:02 hiro protagonist wrote:good morning team. first timer here. I agree, this is off to a good start. there is no reason to suspect anyone right now, as there is very little to go on, so its a little wait and see I agree with VisceraEyes, its important to ask alot of questions. I will want clarifications on posts I find suspicious, and please do the same for me! Link + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 02:58 hiro protagonist wrote: Its true that lurking round is a good place for scum to hide, as there is little evidence to indict them. how ever all but 3 of us have posted and I doubt that ALL of the inactives will be scum...
best bet is a scum has already posted, so we should try to sniff em out! If we don't have a good lead by tomorrow, then we should ask the lurkers to step up and explain themselves...
Posts from around 10-11 hours into the game. IIRC VisceraEyes and Mataza were going at it at this point with occasional input from GiygaS.
Analysis No incriminating content so far because ... not really much content at all so far. The second post is on page 5, that means after about 2-3 pages of play and maybe it's a bit weird to think that we should just focus on the actives since there's not too much to go by. At this point there had been some accusations against Mataza by VisceraEyes and GiygaS and a couple of "hello" posts and a couple of "man, these inactives are a nuisance" posts and that was it.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 12:23 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, here are my thoughts so far,
the first two people I gonna talk about are the ones i have the most read on/talked the most o far:
VisceraEyes: He was the most active in the first few pages, with most of his post wanting simply for all active players to say hi. Also mentioning not to take suspicions of one another as a bad thing. I can agree with this line of logic, as it will foster a more friendly town, and get in on the scum hunting. His FoS of Mataza looks more like a call for discussion then an actual accusation. my worry is that he is almost TOO town, and is a likely prime hit for Mafia, unless of course he IS Mafia.
Mataza: considered the most suspicious as of right now, and with good reasoning. His first post was one of feinting a cop role. and Has been very Defensive initially when VisceraEye ask a question. Then he points the finger right back at VisceraEyes. after that he claims that he "just wanted to see how you would react". However he made a good post about how he wants to talk about what everyone else thinks, and his post are in the vein of scumhunting (when his not busy defending himself). not sure what to think of him tbh.
Next up GiygaS, nord, Palmar,:
These 3 have the most posts with the least amount of Analysis. most likely town wanting to hang low or wait and see before going into to much discussion. GiygaS has done the most in getting discussion going, expesialy around what VisceraEye and Mataza have been saying. not alot to go on.
prplhz: quite at first but then a solid post with good analysis.
Deepblue, Steff, Karshe: still need to here more from them. deepblue has gotten in pretty late with just a one liner. gonna watch to see if he is gonna just slide under the modkill, as there are still some inactives, and is laying low(as in acting scummy)
thats it for now.
These posts from 10-11 hours before deadline day1.
Analysis Seems to be very vague though, of the most active players so far, he is most critical of VisceraEyes and Mataza while somewhat letting GiygaS off the hook. He mentions nard and Palmar but never says anything about them. Is actually vaguely accusing everybody he talks about except me and GiygaS.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:05 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, LOTS to go on here, gonna give my take on things:
The General feeling for the first day started like this: the town began giving intro post that most had no content. the exception to this is of course Mataza, who kinda claimed Cop, and then retracted it.( I still do not like is explanation). the first three people to really get the ball rolling where ViscaraEyes, GiygaS, and Mataza. Of the three, I liked VisEyes approach the most, and Mataza's the least. but these 3 started talking, there still talking, and its leading somewhere. the way I feel about it is the longer they talk, the long one will slip up, and for me that does not make them A high priority lynch.
Is one of them Mafia? man it sure looks like it.
the next list of people include me: Hiro, Karshe, Palmar, Prplhz, and nard. Of this group, Prplhz and Karshe have had the most helpful post in my eyes. Palmar and nard mostly made some general post about the situation. Im leaving me out because thats a job for someone else.
Where does this leave me? I starting to look at inactives to vote for. but which one?
The only one I feel right now that would be an ok vote would be Skrammen, and heres why. the only post by Skrammen is one of agreeing with Mataza, apparently for no reason, ether he is a terrible Maffia, or a terrible townie.
Mataza, I want to believe your town, but the way you go about playing just rubs me a bit. I LOVE that you are taking swings at people, but as soon as some one wants to have a disscusion, you ether turn your finger on them, or call them a Bandwaggoner. I also dont like that almost every defense you say "I just wanted to see how you would react." that might be true, but it leaves me with no read on you...
what would we get if we voted Skrammen? if he flips town, we got a good reason to trust Mataza. If he flips scum, well, Mataza has some explaining to do...
will decide in a bit, to give more inactives time to post
From 2 hours before deadline day1.
Analysis He's agreeing with me and Karshe who at this point are saying that we will vote for inactives. Karshe furthermore says that Mataza will be his pick for day2 lynch. He's again critical against Mataza but the most interesting thing he says is that if Skrammen flips town we have a good reason to trust Mataza. Mataza is voting for GiygaS at this point.
If this means that if Skrammen is townie hiro protagonist is indirectly supporting a lynch of GiygaS on day2. If Skrammen is scum, Mataza would go free. With the knowledge we have now that Mataza is townie I think this is very townie behaviour displayed by hiro protagonist.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:08 hiro protagonist wrote: @VisEyes
and while I was posting you say that Jez, I was on board with you Vis, but that's just a lame attitude...
This is in response to VisceraEyes basically saying that he quits the game.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:48 hiro protagonist wrote: gonna stay with my line of logic, and vote skrammen. I cant believe more people are not on him given his VERY little content, and insta bandwagon vote.
Best case scenario: town votes GiygaS, and he flips scum. We got reason to trust one another and the hunt is in full swing.
worst case: GiygaS flips green, and we have lots of suspicions. Very good chance of Mafia breaking up trust and getting us to turn on one another.
good no mater what: voting Skrammen. we get ride of a terrible player, and we get a possible read on Mataza. I chose this one.
Eather way, Im happy with day one.
##Vote: Skrammen
This is around 1 hour before deadline day1.
Analysis At this point GiygaS has 4 votes and hiro protagonist is about to cast the 4th vote for Skrammen. He considers the situation where GiygaS is scum first. This may be a scum-tell as I think most people would probably write about the scenario they consider is most likely first. I don't think he is being fair in his evaluation of the boons of lynching Skrammen in favor of GiygaS.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote: wow, drama drama :D
I have some thoughts and ideas, but they can wait till dawn. Not much else to say, that hasn't been said.
Lets see how the night unfolds
This is 3 hours before deadline night1. The drama is many of us (me, VisceraEyes, Mataza, Palmar) of us discussing heavily even though we actually nailed a scum.
Analysis I don't know why drama would warrant a ":D". Maybe it's the inner troll. He's also not at all afraid to get killed this night. I think these are slight scum-tells too.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 05:19 hiro protagonist wrote: ok guys, slow down.
We lynched a scum on the very first night. We have the upper Hand. im gonna read up on post and come back with a report.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 09:08 hiro protagonist wrote:So looks like a lot of people are looking into me DeepBlu2: no I never gave a explanation into my vote after day1. I gave my reasons for the vote BEFORE voting. Something all good townies should do. I still stand behind that vote. Palmar, nord, and Skrammen have posted some anyalisis of me. All three analyises me equaly well in my opinon, and each draw up different conclusions! Palmar wants to lynch me whill nord thinks im a safe townie. Skrammen is unsure (thanks for steping into the game btw). I find this intriguing... One thing I will addresses (sense no one really asked me any questions), Is of my play being safe. true. I see no reason to not continue to do so. We got a scum day 1. we have the advantage. I am gonna keep on making my opinions heard, and any suspicion I have known. As for the rest of the game, my thoughts around Karshes death are like this: mafia does not know if we have a doc. It would be to risky to go Mataza in case the was one, because they cant afford a miss hit. they chose the next best thing; going for blue roles. they took a shot in the dark in hopes off hitting blue. And if they missed, well, It was very unlikely Karshe had a doc on him, so at least its a guarantee town kill. Link + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 09:24 hiro protagonist wrote:Mataza, I don't get what your plan would accomplish. Mafia can read it to. could you explain it better perhaps, or am i not getting it Link + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 09:42 hiro protagonist wrote: but then they kill the cop... the longer he stays under, the more reports he can do, the better for us
These posts came 6 hours and 10-11 hours into day2.
Analysis In the two first posts he is kinda trying to take responsibility for the day1 scum-lynch, even though he in fact voted for Skrammen and never accused GiygaS of anything. He ridicules attempts to analyse him without directly adressing them. I think these are scum-tells. The nightkill analysis in the last paragraph of the second post is quite straight forward and I don't think this is indicative of anything.
In the two last posts he is very interested in what Mataza's blue role plan is about. And by very interested I mean, he has never asked anyone a question in this game before that point. This interest could be a result of him having a blue role. Maybe this is what Mataza meant by him knowing who the doc was. I think there could be another explanation but I'm gonna leave this up to hiro protagonist to answer.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2011 08:26 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, I am at work, so I dont have a lot of time to explain my vote, but here it go's:
Mataza has been less then helpful day 2. there is so much scumminiss going on with his actions that i dont have time to point them all out. i will just point out a few.
1. He used his trust that he built with the town to try to get people to rolecall blue roles, and as everyone pointed out, thats a very bad idea for us, great for mafia, who are behind.
2. He wants to lynch prplhz. Really? the guy who's very last minute vote switch got us a scum lynch on day one in very dramatic fashion?
3. before prplhz vote switch, GiygaS was safe. This could have been planned between them both, with Mataza looking like a townie.
Im gonna put my money on Mataza is S to the scummy ummy.
##Vote Mataza Link + Show Spoiler +On May 21 2011 10:06 hiro protagonist wrote:@ stefftastiq prplhz and I voted for different people.
These post are from 3-1 hours before day2 deadline. His vote for Mataza put him at 3 to Palmar's 2, my 2, and a single vote on himself. The single vote on him was by Palmar.
Analysis His vote was not an OMGUS as he provides somewhat sufficient reasonable. None of these reasons are original though as they had already been talked about in the game, so this is somewhat of a bandwagon. He also does not discuss why he is not voting for me nor Palmar who had just as many votes. Overall I think these are townie-tells.
Link + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2011 02:33 hiro protagonist wrote: T_T
Mataza, WHY??? it makes no sense to me for you to have acted the way you did...
This was 3.5 hours after Mataza's lynching.
Analysis An emotional outburst after a lynching. He also did this after day1 lynch.
Conclusion I think I very much want to know why hiro protagonist was so interested in Mataza's blue role exposure plan. I don't think I can conclude anything before he gets back to us on this.
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@Palmar
I find it interesting that you're so certain I was in no danger of getting lynched. What, prplhz didn't like the idea? Thought you guys might be able to leverage my living the night as a way to discredit me? Fair enough.
@prplhz
I agree with your assessment that Wunder is probably town and there isn't much suspicious about Hiro. I assume this is leading somewhere in the direction of 'This guy is innocent, this guy is innocent...oh, what have we here Vis Eyes?'...but I'll go ahead and disagree with you in advance that VisceraEyes is suspicious.
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@VisceraEyes
No you're actually the one I'm most sure about not being scum but I doubt that I will post an analysis concluding that. By the way, imagine that neither me nor Palmar are scum, who do you think has been acting most scummy then?
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@steff
My vote was so sudden because I'm so certain. I assume Wunder feels the same way. I do not encourage you to vote quickly if you're not sure...please take all the time you need to analyze before you vote. But if your decision is to vote someone other than Palmar, I ask that you give a strong argument so that those of us who've already voted have the opportunity to consider your case and change our vote if necessary. As I've stated several times now, I think that voting as a whole is going to be very important to Town winning this thing in the end.
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@prplhz
I'd say Skrammen due to inactivity...
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@VisceraEyes
I think this is very weird because I'm like 98% sure that you're townie, and like 90% sure that Palmar is townie. So I think it is very weird that you're going at us like you are. But I've noticed that Palmar is clearly better at this game than I am and I want town to win so I'm gonna propose that you vote for me instead of Palmar, and then if I flip green you don't go for Palmar after me but instead work with him to find the remaining scum. This is not ideal as I'd like to be here all game but I think maybe it's the only way to convince you. And it's too late if you're convinced that you're not right AFTER you lynch Palmar because then I think town will have lost one of it's best players and that can't happen (again!).
So I'd like you to consider either voting for me instead of Palmar and encouraging others to do so too, or to drop your silly crusade because as Mataza said before he died, Palmar is not scum. I might be but Palmar sure isn't. That's what he said VisceraEyes and I can find the quote if you don't believe me.
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By the way, I totally forgot this, but I was roleblocked again tonight. That's another reason to lynch me before Palmar, because then you will know for sure if the goons have a roleblocker and you will be able to eliminate two setups in one lynch.
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##Unvote
Inactivity is now a plague on this town.
Who do we vote off first Mafia? I'll accept anyone who's inactive.
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@Prplhz
My questions directed at Mataza in regards to the blue role incident where ones of genuine interest. when he first started hinting at it (and he did a LOT of hinting) I did not pay much attention to them because I thought he was still doing what he was doing all game long; throwing out hooks every where and waiting till someone responded. seamed like thats what he was doing. But then he actual stated a plan, and one that did not make sense to me. I wanted him to elaborate, before anyone cried blue, but I was willing to here him out. luckily for us, both ViscaraEyes and Palmar voiced there concerns and explained why it was a bad idea. I was especially worried about this post:
On May 20 2011 09:34 Mataza wrote: That´s why I strongly request claims now. If our real doctor was very silent, he must have missed the impostor.
If we have a cop he MUST claim. The reward is instantly getting an innocent report and a mafia. The risk is getting heavily messed with by scum. Claiming means we know the setup 100% sure. I cannot overstate how good this is for us.
If you are cop and do not claim, it means I will wrongly try to get prplhz lynched. And that if you claim later nobody will believe you.
he was asking for people to claim up before really explaining how it would help for town. not good in my eyes.
As for your thoughts on if he thought I was a doc, well, I dont no if i'm reading to much into it but, 2 minutes after my first post during night 1:
On May 19 2011 07:58 Mataza wrote: DOC ON ME!
In hindsight, everyone suddenly agrees Giygas was obvious. Remember who pushed him? Alone?
To be a little arrogant, my read is maybe the strongest in the game.
this, after all ready asking for doc protection.
Im going to go back through the game and see what I can dig up. I am gonna be looking at anyone who was suspicious of prplhz after day 1. I see no reason why his vote on day 1 doesn't make him a 100% townie. The only thing I can think of is if Skrammen is also Mafia, witch would make sense to vote of the suspicious scum in favor of the less suspicious. I ask that any one else to give me another reason why prplhz is mafia if they have a reason. i would be intrigued to hear.
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On May 23 2011 10:04 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im going to go back through the game and see what I can dig up. I am gonna be looking at anyone who was suspicious of prplhz after day 1. I see no reason why his vote on day 1 doesn't make him a 100% townie. The only thing I can think of is if Skrammen is also Mafia, witch would make sense to vote of the suspicious scum in favor of the less suspicious. I ask that any one else to give me another reason why prplhz is mafia if they have a reason. i would be intrigued to hear.
This might just be their plan. It makes a lot of sense for them to throw giygas under the wheels when he was already highly suspicious, and in the process get a lot of support for prplhz.
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This one's for you Mataza and DeepBlu2
I'm sorry, but this will be very, very long. I suggest you read everything in here.
Prplhz - Well played sir, but the jig is up.
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Analysis of prplhz:
As prplhz has created a significant number of post, I will only include those I consider relevant to my analysis.
So, after quickly stating he was new, and asking some technical questions. This is the first post he voices a solid opinion.
On May 17 2011 00:35 prplhz wrote: I kinda have to agree with Mataza, lets stop the blaming until everybody has posted once or twice. People should instead maybe just say how they're going to try to play out this first day. According to Mataza's math we need to kill a scum in the first 3 days which is a lot of time to get to know each other and I will probably be voting for those I am most unsure of, which will be those with least real content in their posts.
But really, I don't think that people should blame anybody too much after the first 10 posts 'cause there's no real basis for it.
Most of this post is just fluff. He seems to want to go for inactives at this point. He is really careful in his wording, telling us to not blame anyone. This may be a newbie mistake, but I think most of us are aware that the best way to get people to slip is to put pressure on them.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 09:26 prplhz wrote:Sup guys Right now I am mainly suspecting Mataza, mainly because of something that Mataza said early on: Now this statement could very well be benign but it is doing two things: degrading the town to diminish people's confidence in their ability to play this game (overestimate) making them more susceptible to get influenced by someone (himself) and setting himself up as a "leader" of the town (my town). I do not know why Mataza is trying to set himself up as a leader of the town but there are two scenarios: 1. He's a scum: He wants to control people and mislead them to vote for innocent people and keep the mafia save. 2. He's a townie: He wants to control people and lead to to vote for guilty scum and keep the town save. Either way he is trying to be a "leader" of the town and this in itself is bad. A town should never have a leader and should instead have people thinking very independently forming their own opinion, this should happen through discussion and activity of course. Mataza is very savvy and probably knows that having a leader is not good for a town, so why is he trying to set himself up to be one? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Now stuff that might talk against this: First: Mataza is actually not pointing fingers at anybody, I think we should be very careful if he ever decides to "lead" "his town" to vote for someone. Second (as pointed out by Mataza himself): If he is trying to lead this town as a scum would lead it we would quickly find out (we would lynch innocent people). And since we can afford losing people, trading a townie (guy Mataza would want to lynch) for a scum (Mataza) is really a good deal for the town. Maybe he is setting himself and the mafia up for mid/late game? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Other than that I think that all the debate around Mataza is hurting the town (we are not talking about someone else). So to stop this I am going to talk about someone else: VisceraEyes and GiygaS It is very hard for me to argue against VisceraEyes and GiygaS because I am also suspicious of Mataza. This is very hard because, while these two guys have been on Mataza's back the whole time they claim that it has been for the sake of activity. This has worked alright since these three guys are arguably the most contributing players in this game right now so their claimed plans have worked out well. But why are they not directing any of this activity against each other? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. This gets even harder to analyze because there are two of them and thus several scenarios: Two townies being suspicious of someone? Two scums targetting an innocent townie? Or maybe the hardest scenario to deal with, one of each. I'm not going to go in depth with these scenarios, I will only present my initial conclusion: If they are scum they are not thinking long term, if they are mixed they will turn on each other, if they are townies ... Well as I said, I am also suspicious of Mataza A final note on nard (something that Mataza cleverly pointed out too, removing some of my suspicions of him): Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.
So, this is a post where he accuses Mataza. It is quite interesting that he's jumping a bandwagon after VisEyes with GiygaS, based on some very frail reasoning. He also points a finger at nard, and thus agrees with me. He talks about how having leaders is dangerous for the town.
At this point Mataza looks like the weakest person on the board, but we now know his weakness was because he wasn't afraid to stick his neck out.
A few posts later hiro protagonist gives prplhz a pat on the back, and GiygaS claims he isn't suspicious at all. Since those three are my best guess for a mafia line-up at the moment, this looks suspicious to me. But obviously to anyone that doesn't agree with my Hiro read, it will look less suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:Yo people I see that people have started voting now, around 16 hours before deadline. This is not good people. Unvoting is very suspucious and there is still plenty of time for people to provide material to analyze. Of course some claim to do it for the sake of discussion but I still think that this is very bad. In addition to this I do not think that any of these votes are currently well founded, they are wild accusations at best. I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? So I'm going to go ahead and do something that VisceraEyes has done several time. Point fingers at some random person for the sake of discussion. And this random person is going to be VisceraEyes himself. Some reasons (so it's not entirely random who I am pointing fingers at) for this: 1. He was the first person who point fingers at others. While he might have done this for the sake of discussion, I think that mostly scum would do this early on in the game. Townies would consider how the other person might be a townie and how unfounded accusations might harm the town, even if you made it clear that they are unfounded. 2. He is often analyzing his own actions. This is something I think you would (should) mainly do when you are scum. There is nothing to fear as a townie, only thing you have to consider is how the town can benefit the most from your actions. While we would all like to survive this game I think this is done best by being honest and only analytical of the actions of potential scum. 3. He has just something I would deem crazy to do if you were a townie. He suddenly said "this guy I have been bashing all game long, maybe he's not scum so I'm just gonna vote for someone and provide very limited rationale for this". This is not only very scum-like in my eyes, it is also harmful to the town. @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control @Palmar : Why do you think Mataza is "innocent as a newborn baby"? Gutfeeling is not an acceptable answer Think that was it for now. I will try to vote around 4 hours before deadline. Finals notes on what I think all townies should currently be aware of: Lurking townies make it possible for scum to play lurker style too. I think everybody should get up and post some analysis, if you are a townie this is absolutely the best thing you can do. We still missing a couple of you but this is making the game very much harder for town! I would consider any of the prospective modkills (Skrammen, Wunder) showing up in the nick of time to cast crucial votes for the lynching VERY suspicious. Even if they decide to show up now I think they will be very harmful to town if they don't post a lot in a very short amount of time. It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces
This is his infamous "control" post. He suddenly tries to do a 180 from Mataza to VisEyes. Others have already analysed this post to death, so I will not spend too much time on it. It suggests some questionable methods like keeping the town in check, which really is a bad idea because you need all the creativity you can get to spot the scum.
And here's the problem. Prplhz already agreed with me on that it should be easy to make first posts, and here he calls me a strong player. This continues through-out the game, blinding me to his true intentions.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote:Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active. People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing ))
This is his first post that is really incriminating. I did not suspect prplhz at the point so I wanted to harshly call him out for his nurse call, which was... well... either really stupid or a scumtell. I stupidly ignored a very strong VisEyes analysis on prplhz at this point, because I felt it was too frail. Now I realize prplhz was already playing me on flattery.
link to VisEyes's post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9313612 <-- everyone should read this.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 07:35 prplhz wrote:Yea I'm gonna go ahead and vote now. ##Vote Skrammen Reason for this is that he just comes in 8 hours before day1 ends, casts and vote with 2 paragraphs of resonable and does not respond to our pleas that he post some more content. I am going to be honest with you and say that maybe he's not the one who is most likely to be scum but I think he's the most harmful for the town right now. If I should have voted for most likely to be scum I would vote for VisceraEyes for reasons I have already stated. Also his latest post is not really convincing me of anything else either. To answer the post VisceraEyes just made, the one that was mainly about me; No I don't control anybody Other than that I can't seem to find anything in your post I should need to comment on because mostly you're just saying that you disagree with what I said.
Here is his Skrammen vote. After all he just went for an easy target, but the mafia must've realized later what weak position they'd have been in if the three of them all voted for Skrammen and got him lynched.
He's very careful and doesn't full-out accuse VisEyes.
On May 18 2011 07:55 Mataza wrote: The hell? You really think Skrammen is the best lynch? I can´t get my head around how anyone can think that.
Also purples reasoning for that sounds a lot like giygas reasoning. He has posted only 2 paragraphs and already votes. Sounds eerily familiar to me. Especially if you consider that Giygas is just voting on some random inactive person and trying not to slip up. He is so silent all of a sudden.
Including this because Mataza had honest intentions. He already spotted the similarities... the link between GiygaS and prplhz.
On May 18 2011 08:10 Mataza wrote: prplhz will be top priority for the cop tonight, if we have a cop, that is.
Another Mataza quote. Put yourselves in a position of the mafia. GiygaS was already under heavy suspicion at this point, and prplhz was getting heavily linked to him by one of the more analytical players in the game.
I know I would've considered the gamble of throwing one under the bus to free another.
On May 18 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: Yea this may be a huge mistake but if I'm gonna make it, it is going to be in the first game.
##Unvote Skrammen ##Vote GiygaS
My rationale:
The whole "vote for skrammen" thing was never about him being scum, it was about him being inactive and voting out of the blue. I think that we are going to have a lot better read on VisceraEyes, Mataza and Skrammen if we flip GiygaS, while flipping Skrammen will really give us nothing. Inactive players have hopefully learned their lesson.
Also I think it is very awesome that everybody voted, but it would be more awesome if everybody posted regularly too!
If he does not flip red I think the VisceraEyes is the best bid for a scum next time.
I'll probably be unavailable for the next 24 hours by way, and also for the first part of day1 but I will be here to answer questions just not to provide analysis.
And here we are. Prplhz's one saving grace, one claim to fame in this game. This is where he won all his trust by gettin GiygaS lynched. I mean... it's obvious. Are we really going to lynch the person that ensured a mafia death on day1?
But why did Mataza keep going after him, Why did VisceraEyes keep suspecting him, why did DeepBlu2 keep wanting him lynched?
On May 19 2011 07:29 Mataza wrote: First: Analyze prplhz -His tone is very rational, yet he does an emotional response to giygas flipping scum. ("I can´t believe this.") -He looks methodical in his approach and suggests he is a high priority target for the nightkill, even after he has proven to have been pretty much useless up til now. Under that light, he increased his usefulness by voting for Giygas.
Be very wary of him. I don´t have the time to analyze properly.
The following night there are some exchanges between VisEyes and prplhz, both pointing fingers at each other. Mataza continues actually analysing the situation and reaching the conclusion that prplhz should still be under heavy suspicion.
I ended up defending prplhz this night...
Following this there is a fuckton of information and analysis done by both myself and VisEyes. He is certain that prplhz and I are the scum, and I try to defend both of us.
Here's another analysis by Mataza:
On May 20 2011 08:14 Mataza wrote:Also FoS prplhz. He still gives me a chaotic read. His behaviour overall seems a little.....off. Like he is planning spontaneous responses. He talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control.Literally. He doesn´t want to help lead the town, he only talks about control. + Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:(Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces He mostly points out things that are bad or "harmful" for town, but never about things that actually help us. All that, while he goes out of his way and calls himself important enough to be the nightkill, because "they might be afraid that I will try to rally people". Him rallying people never looked probable or even possible to me. After rereading all his posts, there is only 2 explanations in my mind: 1) He is greatly holding back, while thinking he is absolutely invaluable. He doesn´t know in the least how he appears to the town 2) He is scum trying to be perceived as invaluable, a good analyst. With superior knowledge he has a deep understanding of what actually happens. But because he is Mafia, he cannot post why his maf buddies are suspicious. I really, really want to think he is town since he was quite active. It just doesn´t fit somehow.
Day 2 is hell of a lot more frantic than day 1. There are loads of fingers pointing everywhere, so I will try to summarize it in order to keep this post a readable length.
Mataza FoS'd prplhz quite heavily. VisEyes was unsure in what to do because his campaign against me didn't receive much support. He both defended and accused prplhz at points during day2.
I attacked Mataza without voting him, and defended prplhz. Nard also defended prplhz.
At some point prplhz claimed that he got roleblocked during the night. It is really interesting why he did not immediately claim this, because why on earth would you wait for such a long time if you're town?
On May 20 2011 11:21 prplhz wrote: @VisceraEyes
Uh his risky secret plan appeared to be very poor and he apparently assumed stuff that was not true. Palmar tore it apart and now he's suddenly on a crusade against me. I don't really know honestly, but I am not too worried. Even if he succeeds, which I very much doubt, the mafia is gonna have a very hard time. I think that 'Visceraness' is a good word to describe what he's doing right now. It almost seem like he's panicking.
Here is another prplhz agree with me. I really got fooled by this shit.
Everyone read this analysis by Mataza please:
On May 21 2011 00:44 Mataza wrote:The big analysis of Prplhz Prplhz has been preceived as scummy day1. After Giygas flipped red, perceived suspicion against him dropped a whole lot, as we are seemingly back to hunting inactives. If I am right, he knew he was suspicious day 1. He also knew Giygas was even worse off. So he tried to make 2 bads into 1 good and voted Giygas off, so he is cleared off suspicion. 1) Now it has been enough time to relatively safely assume we have no cop in the game. If this is true, it means we have 1 doc and no roleblockers ingame. But prplhz claimed to have been roleblocked. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=19#364 On May 20 2011 08:36 prplhz wrote: Oh shit I need to do some roleblock discussion too.
Right, Karshe got killed and I got blocked. We either have Doc+Cop or we have vanilla town. The scum has known this all along.
Now Imagine this. Scum tried to block townie. Why on earth would they do that? Only makes sense if they are trying to do some mind games, but would it not be better to block someone other than me? Someone who is townie but who is acting scummy? Now imagine this: Scum tried to block Doc. If I am doc would their blocking me have helped in their assassination of Karshe? Not likely, I do not think I ever even mentioned Karshe before he was killed so why would they think I would try to save him? So scum tried to block Cop?
What are your thoughts on this? My thought on this matter is he is Scum and there is no roleblock. He tried to distract us with talk about happy fun stuff like who the scum thinks is Doctor or Cop. That´s my stance on it. 2) Prplhz talks about leaders being obviously bad for town, while a few hours later talking about how good it is to have people under control.+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=6#102 On May 17 2011 09:26 prplhz wrote:Sup guys Right now I am mainly suspecting Mataza, mainly because of something that Mataza said early on: Now this statement could very well be benign but it is doing two things: degrading the town to diminish people's confidence in their ability to play this game (overestimate) making them more susceptible to get influenced by someone (himself) and setting himself up as a "leader" of the town (my town). I do not know why Mataza is trying to set himself up as a leader of the town but there are two scenarios: 1. He's a scum: He wants to control people and mislead them to vote for innocent people and keep the mafia save. 2. He's a townie: He wants to control people and lead to to vote for guilty scum and keep the town save. Either way he is trying to be a "leader" of the town and this in itself is bad. A town should never have a leader and should instead have people thinking very independently forming their own opinion, this should happen through discussion and activity of course. Mataza is very savvy and probably knows that having a leader is not good for a town, so why is he trying to set himself up to be one? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.Now stuff that might talk against this: First: Mataza is actually not pointing fingers at anybody, I think we should be very careful if he ever decides to "lead" "his town" to vote for someone. Second (as pointed out by Mataza himself): If he is trying to lead this town as a scum would lead it we would quickly find out (we would lynch innocent people). And since we can afford losing people, trading a townie (guy Mataza would want to lynch) for a scum (Mataza) is really a good deal for the town. Maybe he is setting himself and the mafia up for mid/late game? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.Other than that I think that all the debate around Mataza is hurting the town (we are not talking about someone else). So to stop this I am going to talk about someone else: VisceraEyes and GiygaS It is very hard for me to argue against VisceraEyes and GiygaS because I am also suspicious of Mataza. This is very hard because, while these two guys have been on Mataza's back the whole time they claim that it has been for the sake of activity. This has worked alright since these three guys are arguably the most contributing players in this game right now so their claimed plans have worked out well. But why are they not directing any of this activity against each other? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves.(Bladibla...) Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:25 nard wrote: i can imagine there are still some people thinking about what they could include in their first post which is not completely trivial - took me a while as well :p While this might be a whole new game for everybody it should not be hard for an innocent townie to write a simple "hello" post. Maybe nard is having a hard time writing his first post because he is a scum with a hidden agenda and then he is thinking that everybody else is having a hard time too? This is a question that everybody should ask themselves. Note that he also likes us to ask ourself questions, derailing from the important things. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=7#129 On May 17 2011 21:48 prplhz wrote:(Bladibla...) I also think that it is bad that people have removed focus from Mataza. While he might not be scum this town has him very much under control. He is very active and has agreed to answer every question directed at him. These are very useful qualities for town to find in a player, no matter if he is scum or townie. We should have tried to use these qualities to hunt scum. I would love to have waited with this post until GiygaS next post but lets just go ahead and do some analysis. I do not think that Mataza is harmful for this town just yet. He is under control so far, I would like him to be more harmful for the Mafia though. So I ask this: @Mataza : With the information available to you now, who would you lynch if you should lynch the player you think is most likely to be Scum? (Bladibla...) @VisceraEyes : Do you think that it is beneficial for the town that you suddenly make a 180 in letting Mataza off the hook and go full force against stefftastiq? Another player who has struck me as harmful to the town is Palmar. He has recently used some very questionable rhetorics to defend Mataza, and while it might be good that Mataza is not lynched, questionable rhetorics are always harmful to town. But on the other hand he also appears to be a very strong player who the town can make good use of later on, so maybe it is just a question of getting him under control (Bladibla...) It is very good to have people under control; the more they post the more we can ask questions and the more we can make ourselves sure that someone is scum/townie. We will probably have two modkills but maybe it will be beneficial to town to lynch one of the least active players, to set an example, to make the game more fun, to maybe hit a lurking scum! Oh yeah and GiygaS; my nick is "purple haze" without any vowels or spaces He took a 180 turn on whether or not control is good. Without any given reason. This is very important so I´d like you to read twice. The good parts are marked Where did this sudden change come from? 3) Voting affairs. His last 3 posts before his vote: + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#148 On May 18 2011 03:11 prplhz wrote:@Skrammen Hi, could you please, in a very short while, provide A LOT more content for us to analyze? I was kinda hoping you would get modkilled. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote:Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active. People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing )) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#160On May 18 2011 07:35 prplhz wrote:Yea I'm gonna go ahead and vote now. ##Vote Skrammen Reason for this is that he just comes in 8 hours before day1 ends, casts and vote with 2 paragraphs of resonable and does not respond to our pleas that he post some more content. I am going to be honest with you and say that maybe he's not the one who is most likely to be scum but I think he's the most harmful for the town right now. If I should have voted for most likely to be scum I would vote for VisceraEyes for reasons I have already stated. Also his latest post is not really convincing me of anything else either. To answer the post VisceraEyes just made, the one that was mainly about me; No I don't control anybody Other than that I can't seem to find anything in your post I should need to comment on because mostly you're just saying that you disagree with what I said. Notice also that prplhz looked forward to Skrammen being modkilled. There is a low chance that a modkill is mafia(3 out of 12 people). This is only minor, but keep it in mind. More importantly notice how Giygas votes within 10 minutes of Prplhz. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#157 On May 18 2011 07:25 GiygaS wrote: Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen First of all, this is out of character for Giygas. He somehow used great parts of prplhz reasoning before prplhz used it. Coincidence? I think not. Prplhz has been whispering into Giygas ear to write exactly that. And at the end, like I said at the beginning, Prplhz changed his vote. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=11#220 On May 18 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: Yea this may be a huge mistake but if I'm gonna make it, it is going to be in the first game.
##Unvote Skrammen ##Vote GiygaS
My rationale:
The whole "vote for skrammen" thing was never about him being scum, it was about him being inactive and voting out of the blue. I think that we are going to have a lot better read on VisceraEyes, Mataza and Skrammen if we flip GiygaS, while flipping Skrammen will really give us nothing. Inactive players have hopefully learned their lesson.
Also I think it is very awesome that everybody voted, but it would be more awesome if everybody posted regularly too!
If he does not flip red I think the VisceraEyes is the best bid for a scum next time.
I'll probably be unavailable for the next 24 hours by way, and also for the first part of day1 but I will be here to answer questions just not to provide analysis. He did change his vote to get a better read or in other words, to get answers. But what was his reaction to Giygas being red? + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=12#235 A little short, no? I thought we wanted to get answers. Why would you be shocked *at all* at giygas flipping red? You don´t know who mafia is, so you kinda suspect everyone. The solution: Prplhz puts up an act. This short answer is saying "I did not expect Giygas to be red" On the other hand, he put the nail in the coffin and cast the final vote on Giygas. A clear contradiction. 4) Little things. Example a: A long post that talks about Viscera and Giygas turning on each other. Did this happen? I can´t remember that this happened at all. He also talked about him being a target for the nightkill, because he "has been rallying people" all day. I did not notice any of his rallying. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=8#152 On May 18 2011 06:20 prplhz wrote:Maybe we cracked down too much on people trying to create drama 'cause I have to agree with Karshe that there is too little discussion going on. So I'm asking everybody (and that include you, person who is reading this now) to post who they would like to get lynched on day2 in case they themselves will get assassinated during the night. I think that I might be a target (hoping for a cute nurse to help me out though!) so this is probably quite relevant. This will be great for town, we can have you analytical skills readily available for day2 even if you get killed during the night! So let me say that I've cracked down a bit on the active people, but in the end I think I am going to vote for an inactive player because the evil you don't know is far more scary than the evil you do know! This will most likely only be for day1 though and I'm sure the scums already know that. So if they eliminate me it will be because they might be afraid that I will try to rally people to kill off someone who I think is a scum, and who is active.People who fit this description according to my posts so far are VisceraEyes and GiygaS, I said that if they turned on each other they would most likely be one scum, one good guy. So if I happen to get mafia killed on first night I think these are people you should really watch out for, but probably only one of them is scum! So what about you people, if you had to write a testament to the town today, what would it say? And by the way, I am going to write a vote post in around an hour, so it will be up before two hours. ((OOC: Oh and Palmar, no hard feelings about the "idiot" thing )) + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222568¤tpage=21 On May 20 2011 11:09 prplhz wrote:Hey I just want to clarify that what GiygaS said after his lynching should NOT be considered by anybody as evidence of anything. The game ends when you die but as the rules state you can make a GG post and that's what GiygaS did. It is very unfortunate that he did not stop his sentence 3 words and a smiley earlier but I am sure that he did not mean anything by it. I'll post more analysis later but I'm always up for questions directed at me. Here he wishes Giygas would have stopped his last comment 3 words earlier. Why could that be? My guess is that Giygas should have said something different. Nobody else cares about this little quip. I see no reason to even read something into that. So why does Prplhz do? If you read Prplhz post history, look especially for him asking questions that derail us away from the question who is mafia. He often goes to "why would mafia do this" and other stuff. He especially talk often about things being harmful to town, but he never spoke about something being good for town. That is a scumtell, known along the line of "bashing bad ideas but never bringing forth any good ideas". Prplhz is scum. I am as convinced as I was with Giygas. My vote stays ##vote PrplhzHelp me help you help win the game.
And another post from Mataza
On May 21 2011 10:57 Mataza wrote: @Viscera I wish you luck going into day 3.
@Palmar Your fear got the better of you. You should step up your game dramatically.
@Prplhz I hope you die next. With this little interest from town, you might have already won.
If our blue role was a vigilante, I could see why he is important. I cannot understand why Doctor did what he did. But the COP is only good if he works with the town before he dies without saying a word.
GG
On May 21 2011 11:43 DeepBlu2 wrote: You guys are retarded. Please listen to me. I said not to lynch him and to lynch purplehaze. Mataza has done nothing but help the town and I don't understand why you guys would lynch him. I honestly just gave up hope and I don't if I can provide analysis if you guys will just ignore it and make a bad decision. Vis, I'm incredibly dissapointed in you for being a frontrunner as well as the others. You decreased our chances of winning significantly.
And here DeepBlu2, who has been very quiet, voiced his strong opinion that prplhz should have been the one hanging. He paid with his life that night.
Day 3 begins with prplhz doing two analyses without actually reaching a conclusion that one of them if mafia or town. Just two more really careful posts about two people who might or might not be mafia in his eyes. No reason to anger anyone when you're about to get under heavy suspicion, I guess!
And then finally, look at this:
On May 23 2011 07:23 prplhz wrote: @VisceraEyes
I think this is very weird because I'm like 98% sure that you're townie, and like 90% sure that Palmar is townie. So I think it is very weird that you're going at us like you are. But I've noticed that Palmar is clearly better at this game than I am and I want town to win so I'm gonna propose that you vote for me instead of Palmar, and then if I flip green you don't go for Palmar after me but instead work with him to find the remaining scum. This is not ideal as I'd like to be here all game but I think maybe it's the only way to convince you. And it's too late if you're convinced that you're not right AFTER you lynch Palmar because then I think town will have lost one of it's best players and that can't happen (again!).
So I'd like you to consider either voting for me instead of Palmar and encouraging others to do so too, or to drop your silly crusade because as Mataza said before he died, Palmar is not scum. I might be but Palmar sure isn't. That's what he said VisceraEyes and I can find the quote if you don't believe me.
This is what finally got me, and convinced me. prplhz is really advocating a lynch on himself over me? It's never a good idea to suggest a self-lynch as townie, because that way you're not mafia.
This is him trying to overcompensate for the suspicions by claiming he's willing to take the axe "for the good of the town"
And once again, he's buying my friendship with trust. I won't fall to that anymore, I'm not going to let VisEyes's crusade against me blind me again, like Mataza pointed out to me before his death.
Let's not screw this up again guys.
I apologize. prplhz has been playing me like a fool this entire game.
##Vote: prplhz
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It's never a good idea to suggest a self-lynch as townie, because that way you're not mafia.
This should of course read: because that way you're not LYNCHING mafia
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Ok - I think we should take a look at the voting patterns again (at least I like to - they show more of what people are actually doing than what they might be saying.
Vote #1 + Show Spoiler + DeepBlu2 (1) Palmar
stefftastiq (0) VisceraEyes
GiygaS(6) DeepBlu2 Mataza Skrammen VisceraEyes stefftastiq prplhz
Skrammen(5) GiygaS (mafia) prplhz Karshe (dead townie) hiro protagonist Wunder nard prplhz(0) VisceraEyes
GiygaS to be lynched, night post incoming
Vote #2 + Show Spoiler + Palmar(1) VisceraEyes Wunder
Hiro Protagonist(2) Palmar stefftastiq
prplhz(2) Mataza DeepBlu2 stefftastiq
Mataza(5) nard prplhz hiro protagonist Skrammen VisceraEyes
Night 1: Karshe killed (town)
Night 2: Deepblu2 killed (town)
What I would love someone to do is to compare the voting patterns with the arguments / analysis done in this thread for the last day - I have to go to work myself so no time until the vote tonight.
I find it a bit strange of VisceraEyes early votes this day - and how i in both votes have changed votes several times - would especially like some thoughts around these quotes:
I live.
##Vote: Palmar
...I'm just getting started!
I agree with a vote for Palmar because DeepBlu2 was Palmar's target d1 and it's reasonable to assume that after the mafia missed their suspect for a PR n1 they went for the easiest candidate that suspected them n2.
And since DeepBlu2 was suspicious of prplhz, he seems like a safe candidate for lynch d3 if Palmar flips red, for obvious reasons (at least to me...)
Just getting started?
and then I ask why so early
@steff
My vote was so sudden because I'm so certain. I assume Wunder feels the same way. I do not encourage you to vote quickly if you're not sure...please take all the time you need to analyze before you vote. But if your decision is to vote someone other than Palmar, I ask that you give a strong argument so that those of us who've already voted have the opportunity to consider your case and change our vote if necessary. As I've stated several times now, I think that voting as a whole is going to be very important to Town winning this thing in the end.
and then...
##Unvote
Inactivity is now a plague on this town.
Who do we vote off first Mafia? I'll accept anyone who's inactive.
really? inactivity a plague? does it really seem so?
TBH im a bit suspicious about ViscEyes - mainly because of the voting patterns (the changes/following the 'other guys' im suspicious of - and you voted for me for a few seconds - and I know my own role - and who who would want to have me lynched (this is weak ofc)
ViscEyes are stil not my 'main' suspect tonight - the others are bolded out in the spoilers.
Thoughts which should be considered:
Mafia might have tried to lead town in the wrong direction by changing votes / offvoting - and focusing on killing the "right persons" at night, as long as not one of their own is targeted.
The players might just have followed the ones they thought were right (both times) - but made wrong choices? - these reasons should really be discussed before tonights votes.
I honestly had more thoughts around this, but after writing this post my mind still is confused - but maybe my post will trigger someone elses thoughs around the same questions (hope so).
Ill be back after work - hoping for some good reading.
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and after reading through my post after teh post i see that ViscEyes also were voting both Skrammen first then Mataza second (even tho he changed a few times)
It seem to start to fit a picture
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also there might be the posibility that mafia "spread their votes" to spread the town votes - for so changing to the same person this night - to get the most votes (as far as i know theres more townies left that mafia? or? )
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I think the picture is getting pretty clear, the only person I still have problems with is Wunder. He doesn't fit my theory, but he seems very much not pro-town.
VisceraEyes Palmar Skrammen Stefftastiq Nard
Wunder
prplhz Hiro Protagonist
It'll take something colossal (bigger than Mataza's roleclaim idea) to change my mind from this point.
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tonights vote is going to be exciting
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On May 23 2011 10:04 hiro protagonist wrote: Im going to go back through the game and see what I can dig up. I am gonna be looking at anyone who was suspicious of prplhz after day 1. I see no reason why his vote on day 1 doesn't make him a 100% townie. The only thing I can think of is if Skrammen is also Mafia, witch would make sense to vote of the suspicious scum in favor of the less suspicious. I ask that any one else to give me another reason why prplhz is mafia if they have a reason. i would be intrigued to hear.
I see prplhz still has some allies...
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@Palmar
I also apologize for tunnelling you guys so hard. Looking back, I realized the only reason I suspected YOU in particular was your huge amount of posts (more stuff for me to insert suspicious WIFOM into) and your closeness with prplhz. As you appear to have answered for your closeness with prplhz, I'm going to go back and objectively go through your posts and see if there's anything suspicious (aside from your DeepBlu vote d1 which was the main point of my suspicion of you previously) at ALL.
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I've explained why I changed my vote to Mataza several times, and again, I'll repeat myself for the sake of clarification and transparency. I changed my vote from Palmar, my main suspect at the time, to Mataza, someone I had figured for green. This makes me look scummy, and I understand that. However, I made it clear in the vote post that the reason for this is VERY green indeed...because we're going to have to work TOGETHER to find scum...not have our own theories and just vote for whomever we don't like ourselves.
As for the post above this one, calling inactives to lynch...I've been VERY frustrated from the lack of activity from players like Skrammen and Wunder, posting once and voting every cycle, but literally doing nothing else the whole game. It doesn't matter if suspicion is cast on them or not, they won't be back to answer for it until a few hours after the cycle-post. This is bad for town because not only does it cast suspicion on them if they're green, but it makes them harder to spot if they're red. All and all, it's just bad for town this late in the game. Especially when there are a few VERY active posters who are A)doing all the heavy lifting because they're good at the game (Mataza, Palmar) or B)derailing scum-hunting by posting nonsense (GiygaS, VisceraEyes).
I'm not sure how much I'll get done in the way of reanalysis (I'm at work, might be until the vote), but because he's one of my suspects (for reasons that should be clear by now...there's a lot of rhetoric, but there's content there if you read), and because Palmar's argument is so convincing and prplhz thinks it's a good idea too...
##Vote: prplhz
If prplhz flips red, Palmar will be cleared as far as I'm concerned.
Well played sir.
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Alright.
Analysis is for the living so I'm just gonna post a bit of everything here without really thinking about arguments.
VisceraEyes: Emotional guy but I doubt that he is Mafia. His fervor can hardly be faked and no Mafia would act like this. I'm 99% sure that he is townie.
Palmar: Analytical guy who will have been voting for 2 townies and one undecided after today. I am 80-90% sure that he is townie. If he does not go after hiro protagonist on day4 I think it is much more likely that he is scum. If hiro protagonist is nightkilled you should closely monitor how he and VisceraEyes react.
Skrammen: Has 7 posts in this game so far. Mostly been bandwagoning without any real content in his posts. About 70% sure that he is townie.
hiro protagonist: Has some more posts. In my analysis of him I delayed my conclusion until after he had answered my question (which he now has). About 25% sure that he is townie, that is 75% sure that he is scum.
Wunder: Already posted my analysis on him. I'm about 60% sure that he is townie. Nobody noticed but I actually missed his latest post in my analysis so you can read that and make your own conclusions 'cause the rest of his posts are there.
stefftastiq and nard: I don't know much about these guys. 50% sure that they are townies but also 50% sure that they are scum. Very undecided but a good scum in this game will have tried to stay under the radar. I did not do a thorough analysis of their posts and I doubt I will.
Once I'm dead you will know for sure that I was actually twice roleblocked. If cop has anything conclusive and useful to report he should roleclaim during night3 and post his findings. The nurse should protect him during the night and then you should lynch cop on day4 to verify his findings. If nobody roleclaims I think hiro protagonist, stefftastiq and nard are most likely to be scum and I doubt that we will even have a cop/nurse.
I will be voting for hiro protagonist today but I will not vote until 3-4 hours before deadline as on all the other days.
I'll be here to answer questions until dusk.
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I actually have the same view on most of the players, except for myself of course - but I wont blame you for being suspicious tho.
Im still a bit suspicious abot ViscEyes and how he votes for prplz - I am not that sure about this (it was kind of the same way with mataza - wrong reasons i think...
so im going with the same vote as last time - and hoping its red and going through this time
##Vote hiro protagonist
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I have to correct myself - maybe not wrong reasons - but wrong order or something
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Wow. That's what, 2 prplhz, 2 hiro now? It's about to get REAL interesting.
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I believe the current score is
1 hiro Stefftastiq (prplhz - hasn't voted, but presumably will be voting here) 1 palmar Wunder 2 prplhz Palmar VisEyes
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@Stefftastiq
I agree with you on Hiro Protagonist. Do you think I'm wrong on prplhz?
I have no problem with voting for Hiro tonight. But I think we should try to align our votes so that we don't give the one we agree on a chance to escape. Prplhz seems to be the brain behind their plan, so killing him first makes sense to me.
GMarshal: Are dead mafia allowed to keep communicating with their fellow mafia?
But if Skrammen/Nard are more comfortable with killing hiro, and VisEyes agrees to switch, we can do that.
Just remember it's 6 town v 2 mafia. This means we need 5 votes to ensure majority, and I don't see much help coming from Wunder.
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I guess the obvious question is that if prplhz is scum, why would he vote for his scum buddy AGAIN? I'd prefer to hit prplhz first, as I haven't really picked up anything suspicious of Hiro. If you go along with this Palmar, I hop on Wunder's boat and vote you off. Understand that you have my cooperation AS LONG AS EITHER YOU OR PRPLHZ GOES HOME TONIGHT. I'd prefer it to be prplhz, but I'm not throwing away ALL the analysis I've done on someone else's preference to vote Hiro.
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@Palmar
I do not think your wrong on prplhz - just not sure, cant even say im 100% sure on hiro, but it made sense last lynch - and nothing about it has changed really, while other players have been active.
the most scary parts are the votes which might be cast just before voting ends which can swap everything if all mafias are none of the oens who have voted - as far as if hiro or pprplz are the one with the most votes hopefully both of them are red :-p
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@stefftastiq & Palmar
I'm committed to prplhz at this point. I've already switched once today, and while I'm not necessarily concerned if switching again looks suspicious, I'd rather not because I'd like us to all unite and vote someone off as a team rather than the sporadic factions we've been pushing the last two days.
@Wunder
Palmar gave a convincing analysis on prplhz...PLEASE read it and consider switching from Palmar to prplhz...if for no other reason than to get a quasi-final read on Palmar before voting him off.
@Hiro I know you don't want to die today. Voting with town will look really good for you.
@Everyone else I know inactives have been getting a harsh rep this game. Come play with us, guys. We need your help.
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@Palmar
Honestly - I do not think Hiro is a Mafia. I did a small post on him a few pages back, and I think he is not a mafia. I have been wrong before tho. If we do end up lynching prplhz and he flips green, then I would reevaluate my statement about him. As for a vote, I am still hitting my head against the wall. Is the day cycle over in 2 hours?
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Giygas said this: + Show Spoiler +Hello everyone!
On the subject of me having 3 votes, I'm more worried about who could slip by. Namely Skrammen.
Skrammen hasn't posted at all until suddenly, he burst on the scene: Announcing his business the last few days very vaguely, Then jumps on the current trend of voting for me, without any reasoning behind doing so. This seems very dangerous to me, so I'm going to vote for him for the same reason that prplhz has reasoned: an evil unknown is far greater then a known one.
##Vote Skrammen
Now this post has been analzed up and down in excess of nine thousand times, so l'm not going to. We can assume that Giygas is not a seasoned player, like most of you are. And he is saying that his reason for voting me during day1 are not his own: but prplhz's. Now this can mean that prplhz is the puppeteer, or geniunely his own thoughts.
I am convinced that the lynching of Giygas was indeed a code red (if that word works in this context, heh.) and that at least one of the scums voted for him. Let us take a look at who voted to lynch him:
DeepBlu2 - confirmed green Mataza - confirmed green Skrammen VisceraEyes - Personally I doubt Visc to be a scum. However, I am wondering why he cries wolf at the end of every day cycle. Is he a prime target for the mafia or is he "faking"? Dont know if this is of relevance yet. Gonna ponder about this some more. stefftastiq - I have not yet made up my mind. Not very suspicious of him at this point. prplhz - Very suspicious. Lets take a look at what the mafia would gain from lynching Giygas:
They would get rid of a bad mafia. They would get a lot of support for prplhz.
So, therefore,
##Vote: Prplhz
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@Steffastiq
What is your main reason for voting Hiro?
I realized that many of you might have some questions for me. You should know that we all live in different timezones, but dont let it stop you. I check these forums every time I have the chance.
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@Skrammen
How do you feel about Palmar?
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Aaaah this is too confusing T_T, poor Mataza, we should have listened to him more closely.
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Well that's kind of what we're doing Wunder.
My analysis of prplhz is largely based on Mataza's analysis... and his last post said that he wanted prplhz dead.
So yeah...
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United States22154 Posts
Votecount
Palmar (1) Wunder
VisceraEyes
prplhz (3) Palmar VisceraEyes Skrammen
hiro protagonist (1) stefftastiq
prplhz to be lynched in 20 minutes, three people to be modkilled for not voting -__-
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im here, I just cant decide...
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United States22154 Posts
On May 24 2011 06:50 Palmar wrote: GMarshal: Are dead mafia allowed to keep communicating with their fellow mafia?
They are allowed to hang around and chat, but not about game relevant material
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On May 24 2011 10:40 hiro protagonist wrote: im here, I just cant decide...
Trying to decide if you should bandwagon to try to buy safety or if you should vote me?
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really sorry about being so inactive, it hurts town a lot. i requested a replacement already but didnt get an answer yet, so im gonna cast my vote to avoid the modkill.
in honor of matazar and to get a clear view on Palma, i'll vote on [b]##vote prplhz
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missed that [/b] tag :D
##vote prplhz
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I still cant figure out what is so suspicious about prplhz, but because a lot of you feel he is worth the vote then so be it;
##Vote: Prplhz
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Well that sealed the deal.
I decided that maybe I should vote a bit later. Maybe this has put scum off.
I noticed that Palmar considers me the "brain" of the mafia. I think this is a general trend in this game, if people notice someone who is either "great scum" or "bad townie" they're gonna go for the former even considering that this is a newbie game. I think we have "bad townies" and "decent scum" because I think it is generally easier to be scum than townie.
Also I think stefftastiq and nard are quite scummy. They both made the final two votes during day1 and stefftastiq threw the only vote at GiygaS which could not at the time of voting have any influence. Skrammen was already at 6 votes and putting GiygaS to 6 too would not have any effect. nard threw the deciding vote in that, if he had voted for GiygaS then he would have gone home. Of course he could have voted for a third candidate but that's risky as hell and I doubt scum would do that. I think the remaining scum are two of hiro protagonist, stefftastiq and nard. Mentiond in order of scum-likelyhood.
You still have one mislynch so use that carefully.
##Vote hiro protagonist
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actually im gonna pull a prplhz and vote for hiro, the one guy i thought was safe in the beginning. last 1-2 days were making me suspicious and im not too sure about prplhz ##unvote ##vote hiro protagonist
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i could imagine hiro & wunder being the last 2 mafia, altough that is just a gut feeling. from that standpoint, its a bad idea to sacrifice prplhz to get a good view on palmar, who both might be town :3
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Night 3
A fairly quiet day had gone by. Offering not much resistance, prphlz was put up on the execution block
Sadly, more green blood was spilt.
prphlz the Townie has been lynched.
It is now Night 3. Role actions to me, 24 hours to go.
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guess my vote was too late.
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I don't think it would've mattered.
I kinda wanted to switch too... Hiro was always my original mafia candidate. Main reason I went for prplhz was Mataza and DeepBlu2.
Guess we were all wrong.
Sucks, see you tomorrow.
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GG people, good fun to play with you.
Hope to see you in many future TLMafia games and I will follow this game to the end for sure.
Also thank you to chaoser for the daypost! Much appreciated that you guys voluntarily spend your time organizing mafia for noobs like me!
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Note that this means we have either only vanilla townies, or we have both a doc and cop.
Prplhz wouldn't have been lying about being roleblocked twice, so the set-up is either one of those. Seeing how the game is flowing, I'm leaning towards 9 vanillas...
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"you see, you SEE" - copyright held by Sen.
ok, now that what I thought all along is for everyone else to see, lets move forward. If there are blue roles out there, then we know you have never been role blocked and there are 2 of you. or, more likely at this point, all townies. lets see what the night brings and start anew.
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Going into n3 without a single report from a cop...yeah, we're all vanilla. Anyone who talks about blue roles from this point on is derailing town scum-hunting operations and should be considered scum. We're on our own here.
I'm gonna go smoke a bowl and meditate on this.
Sry prplhz.
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United States22154 Posts
sinani206 replaces nard. Say hi to sinani
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
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Hi Sinani. You're suspected scum, just so you're aware.
j/p welcome.
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hi sinani thx sinani. goodbye town.
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Analysis of one player coming in after the night post... I have some notes written down. I won't say who yet because it might influence the Mafia's vote.
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Oh I wish I was still alive to tell what prplhz flipping green means. I´m biting my tongue here. Good luck town.
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@sinani Hi! are you experienced player or a noob like some of us? :D
@VisceraEyes U lead a 'crusade' against two townies two days in a row - how does it really feel? "Just getting started?" (from your post, you probably remember")
@prplz you really think I'm scummy? I was a bit suspicious of you, but not enough to throw my vote with the 'bandwagon' and vote for you, just for the reason that I was not certain enough of whos NOT scum. Its just sad that other players are prioritizing wrong
Scum are everywhere - I just hope I live through the night
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@stefftastiq
I kind of lead the crusade against prplhz this time, which really sucks.
VisEyes really wants to lynch me, that's his main crusade.
Hiro Protagonist has a pretty damn impressive voting record. He voted Skrammen on day 1, he voted Mataza on day 2 and he voted prplhz on day 3, despite claiming he was sure prplhz wasn't mafia.
I did an analysis on the guy back on day 2, I guess I should've pushed his lynch harder at the time, but it seems like this town has a taste for active blood, so aside from stefftastiq I found it really hard to get much support. That and I will admit VisEyes's constant crusade against me has been really distracting.
But it kinda fits... I couldn't place Wunder anywhere because his behavior was so damn scummy, yet I already had hiro and prplhz lined up as mafia. Looks like we know who the mafia is now.
If I should not survive the night, I want you to take a really good long look at Hiro Protagonist. Nard saw it, I saw it, stefftastiq saw it and prplhz saw it. We just seem really keen on lynching active players versus passive players.... and look where that has gotten us.
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Vote #3
Palmar (1) Wunder VisceraEyes
prplhz (3) Palmar VisceraEyes Skrammen
hiro protagonist (1) stefftastiq
out of these people who have voted right now im only 100% certain about one green, and thats myself
@Palmar, VisceraEyes, Skrammen _WHY_ were you so certain about prplz - or did you just follow the bandwagon - out of my thoungs _at least_ one of you are scum - if not - where are all the scum? :-p
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Well, I don't know about the others, but I honestly just thought prplhz was mafia. He was being pushed by two people that died last night (Mataza and DeepBlu2) and he hadn't really contributed anything to the game since day one aside from bandwagoning my breakdown of Mataza's "plan".
Then he pulled some really silly "I'll martyr myself instead of Palmar" thing, and I was just... why on earth would you do that as townie? It just makes no sense.
So yeah, bad read.
The Mafia are Hiro and Wunder. If you don't believe me, just go through their post history.
I would do an analysis on Wunder, but there's nothing to analyse. He's just been chilling and doing nothing while the we happily kill off outspoken players like Mataza and prplhz.
I don't even care anymore, I'm not listening to some meta-game bullshit anymore. I will be crusading so hard on Hiro's ass tomorrow that he will feel sore for days. If I die during the night, well you know what happened.
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Sigh. I dun goof'd. Well, I just thought he was a scum. Apparantly, many of us had a bad read on that guy, and I just cannot fathom why he would act the way he did. It sounded logical to me that the scums would be of the most active, but that might not be the case.
@Viscera Well. He is as eager as anyone to catch scum, and he might be on to somthing.
Imma go over some posts and see if I can dig up somthing.
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I'm withdrawing all FoS and "crusades" I might be on...I'm also going back to read what we've got.
Good luck tonight everyone. I'll make a post before 10p in case I'm the target tonight (it looks less and less likely each day.)
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On May 24 2011 11:16 hiro protagonist wrote: "you see, you SEE" - copyright held by Sen.
ok, now that what I thought all along is for everyone else to see, lets move forward. If there are blue roles out there, then we know you have never been role blocked and there are 2 of you. or, more likely at this point, all townies. lets see what the night brings and start anew.
So, you contribute to a lynch to a townie, meanwhile saying that you don't see anything scummy about him, you just don't want to vote against town.
And then you come to us and say "I told you so".
This is just a silly parade to try to reduce suspicion on yourself.
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This is my second game--I died in XXXIX
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On May 25 2011 01:45 sinani206 wrote: This is my second game--I died in XXXIX
It's ok, you're not scum.
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Just a cursory glance at the last few pages makes me tend to agree with Palmar regarding Hiro...but I haven't gone back and looked really.
I suggest looking at Hiro, Stefftastiq and (unfortunately) Sinani for tomorrow's lynch so far.
More in-depth analysis (with actual evidence) forthcoming.
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@VisceraEyes
i would really like to know why you think im scum - cause it make me more suspicious of you when you actually accuse me, since i know my role - and i certainly do not know yours!
but I really hope someone looks at my posts, it might give me help to how i can clear the suspicious others might have.
I would rather question how "sure" some of the players have been earlier, both with mataza and prplz - and those players should really rethink how they analyze the players - cause seriously - something is done wrong when both players which was analyzed to be scum show up to be townies
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@stefftastiq
We're pretty much all first-timers, so errors are to be expected. The problem is that we keep analysing the few people that actually contributed to the thread, and thus we lynch useful townies day after day. I mean, there is no question that Mataza's plan was pretty bad, and that prplhz's martyrdom was not the most intelligent thing to do.
But the thing is, the people that don't post, don't make any of those mistakes. I'm pretty sure you're town at the moment, but it really bothers me how passive you were at the start of the game. That's just destructive behavior. I don't see no problem with VisEyes suggesting we take a look at you.
Mind you, if the mafia successfully gets a kill tonight, it'll be 4 town v 2 mafia, so it only takes one townie to make the wrong decision, and it's game over.
I'm going to write up my thoughts, in case I die during the night.
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So here we are, 7 people left living, 5 of us townies, and 2 mafiosi.
One more person might die before day breaks, so that'll bring it down to 4v2. That's basically a LYLO situation, meaning we need a correct lynch, or we're pretty much dead, barring a doctor save. And we don't even know if there is a doctor in the game.
This also means, that we might be in a situation where the 4 townies need to vote together to get rid of mafia. It only takes 1 townie betting on the wrong lynch for us to simply lose the game.
My first lynch candidate it Hiro Protagonist. It is absolutely vital that the four townies that survive through the night vote for him. He will shout foul, and he will try to paint someone else a target. Possibly me or VisEyes because there is a ton of posts by both of us that can be analysed and made to look "scummy".
Here is a link to an analysis I did on Hiro: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9339175
Before reading on, I suggest you take a good hard look at this post. All the way from day 1 Hiro has been acting scummy. Let's look at his voting record, for all it means.
09:48 hiro protagonist -> Skrammen 09:56 Wunder -> Skrammen 10:08 nard -> Skrammen
This is from Deepblu2's analysis of votes after day 1. He, along with two other people voted for Skrammen in a very short timeframe. I don't think nard (sinai) is scum, but it's worth looking at for later. But I'm absolutely sure hiro is scum.
here is his post where he votes Mataza:
On May 21 2011 08:26 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, I am at work, so I dont have a lot of time to explain my vote, but here it go's:
Mataza has been less then helpful day 2. there is so much scumminiss going on with his actions that i dont have time to point them all out. i will just point out a few.
1. He used his trust that he built with the town to try to get people to rolecall blue roles, and as everyone pointed out, thats a very bad idea for us, great for mafia, who are behind.
2. He wants to lynch prplhz. Really? the guy who's very last minute vote switch got us a scum lynch on day one in very dramatic fashion?
3. before prplhz vote switch, GiygaS was safe. This could have been planned between them both, with Mataza looking like a townie.
Im gonna put my money on Mataza is S to the scummy ummy.
##Vote Mataza
So yeah, while I still think Mataza's roleclaim idea was pretty stupid, His reasoning is basically just bandwagoning what everyone else has said.
But this is not the most incriminating thing he did. Here is something that really should be looked at. This is from day 3, just before I post my long analysis on prplhz
On May 23 2011 10:04 hiro protagonist wrote:@Prplhz My questions directed at Mataza in regards to the blue role incident where ones of genuine interest. when he first started hinting at it (and he did a LOT of hinting) I did not pay much attention to them because I thought he was still doing what he was doing all game long; throwing out hooks every where and waiting till someone responded. seamed like thats what he was doing. But then he actual stated a plan, and one that did not make sense to me. I wanted him to elaborate, before anyone cried blue, but I was willing to here him out. luckily for us, both ViscaraEyes and Palmar voiced there concerns and explained why it was a bad idea. I was especially worried about this post: Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 09:34 Mataza wrote: That´s why I strongly request claims now. If our real doctor was very silent, he must have missed the impostor.
If we have a cop he MUST claim. The reward is instantly getting an innocent report and a mafia. The risk is getting heavily messed with by scum. Claiming means we know the setup 100% sure. I cannot overstate how good this is for us.
If you are cop and do not claim, it means I will wrongly try to get prplhz lynched. And that if you claim later nobody will believe you. he was asking for people to claim up before really explaining how it would help for town. not good in my eyes. As for your thoughts on if he thought I was a doc, well, I dont no if i'm reading to much into it but, 2 minutes after my first post during night 1: Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 07:58 Mataza wrote: DOC ON ME!
In hindsight, everyone suddenly agrees Giygas was obvious. Remember who pushed him? Alone?
To be a little arrogant, my read is maybe the strongest in the game. this, after all ready asking for doc protection. Im going to go back through the game and see what I can dig up. I am gonna be looking at anyone who was suspicious of prplhz after day 1. I see no reason why his vote on day 1 doesn't make him a 100% townie. The only thing I can think of is if Skrammen is also Mafia, witch would make sense to vote of the suspicious scum in favor of the less suspicious. I ask that any one else to give me another reason why prplhz is mafia if they have a reason. i would be intrigued to hear.
This is actually a solid post. Really nothing to say about it. He points out some obvious things, but the most important part is that he's not pointing any fingers (he really hasn't pointed any fingers throughout the game) and he's defending prplhz.
Which seems to be quite a contradiction when he finally:
On May 24 2011 10:50 hiro protagonist wrote: I still cant figure out what is so suspicious about prplhz, but because a lot of you feel he is worth the vote then so be it;
##Vote: Prplhz
Really... if you know something that we don't, please tell us about it. Explain why we shouldn't be voting him. This is just ridiculous if you're town. You don't vote for anyone as town, unless you think they're mafia.
But the thing is, this makes perfect sense if you're Mafia. Don't take any responsibility for a kill on someone that you already know is green, and voila... the people that pushed the lynch will look bad, and you can just happily watch the townies go at each others throat until you bandwagon the next townie lynch.
Notice this:
Day 1: Votes Skrammen when GiygaS is top candidate for lynching Day 2: Bandwagons Mataza Day 3: Bandwagons prplhz even after claiming he's probably not mafia.
Hiro Protagonist is mafia
I don't need no damn cop, I'll investigate you with an axe tomorrow night.
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@Palmar
yeah - the first days i was a bit overwhelmed by en the enthusiasm by the other players and had to figure out and read a little more about the game before i felt i could contribute - in addition it was the norwegian national day and we celebrate it like crazy here :-p
I hope we talk again tomorrow, good night
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@Palmar
Very good post on hiro!
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@Steffastiq Aye. Indeed. I was a russ at the time so i needed a few days for restitution :p
Im a bit worried this night. I think that one of you more seasoned players might get taken out, which obviously is not good.
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United States22154 Posts
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United States22154 Posts
Day 4
Another day, another death. This time its Skrammen who doesn't come to the town square at dawn. With heavy hearts the townsfolk force their way into his house, already knowing what they will find inside. Indeed the scene seems to have played out much the same as in the other murders, a single assassin sneaking in silently and slitting the victims throat,Skrammen died before he even noticed he was dead. The townsfolk are starting to panic, they realizer that time is running out. Will they kill the mafia before the mafia kills them?
Skrammen the Vanilla Townie has been murdered
You know the drill by now, 48 hours in the day, vote for who you want to kill
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Atleast it was just me! Good luck fellas, I have faith in ya!
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Why the black text? No millers and you confused me until I scrolled down more. Not nice.
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Anyway, writing up the analysis right now.
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Wunder
First off, and most glaringly, he does not appear to be able to read much past the "skimming" level. An obvious example of this is when he appeared to have read 8 pages in 6 minutes.
Here are a few more examples:
On May 18 2011 18:18 Wunder wrote: Hi! Sorry, can dead people still post? Probably not, right?
Anyways, sorry for the wrong vote - decided to go with the safer vote rather than have a bunch of suspect innocents. I'll hopefully participate more tomorrow!
Just to clarify, we can PM anyone here right? To have like secret conversations?
These are questions answered in the rules posts and should be well-known by players. Some of these are even bolded. He didn't even read the rules post and this fact definitely concerned me when I first started reading.
On May 19 2011 19:52 Wunder wrote: I may have stepped too deep here, the level of analysis is quite mindboggling. I'd love to contribute, but I'm not sure how or where to start, even after reading a lot of the newbie guides... One thing that can be said though is that VisEyes, Palmar and Mataza are all very active, and I do believe at least one of them is Mafia.
Sadly, I don't have much proof and I'm not sure how all of you guys have to time to sift through and analyze everyone's posts :< what does FoSing someone actually do, other than make your suspicions more concrete?
I will try to monitor this situation more, but I think a lot of my opinions are siding with VisEyes right now, though I'm not sure why. Typical newbie excuses, but these can be given on purpose by Mafia. I know I used this strategy in XXXIX. This is a newbie game. Everyone here has little to no experience. Yet you are the only one that is allowed to use this an excuse? Don't overlook this, people. There is no excuse for being inactive (emergencies, fine). More non-reading as well.
He has not been reading, even though he claims he has. This is a HUGE scumtell. His teammates could easily tell him what is happening or even just use him as a puppet.
Next, Wunder's subtle defense.
On May 19 2011 19:52 Wunder wrote: I may have stepped too deep here, the level of analysis is quite mindboggling. I'd love to contribute, but I'm not sure how or where to start, even after reading a lot of the newbie guides... One thing that can be said though is that VisEyes, Palmar and Mataza are all very active, and I do believe at least one of them is Mafia.
Sadly, I don't have much proof and I'm not sure how all of you guys have to time to sift through and analyze everyone's posts :< what does FoSing someone actually do, other than make your suspicions more concrete?
I will try to monitor this situation more, but I think a lot of my opinions are siding with VisEyes right now, though I'm not sure why.
On May 19 2011 20:17 Wunder wrote:@Nard: pretty nice post, and... pretty bad pun I agree somewhat with your analysis, however I doubt a lot of the inactive people would be mafia, especially since reading the newbie guide one would assume mafioso to be active, rather than inactive.
He says that the Mafia would be active, but he himself is being inactive. He is using this as a defense, trying to convince others that the Mafia are active, trying to remove suspicion from himself.
Next up, post timing.
On May 21 2011 11:41 Wunder wrote: Ah fuck. The people who voted for Mataza didn't really think of the implications. What does this achieve? That the doubters of Mataza are now all possible mafia?
On May 24 2011 10:31 Wunder wrote: Aaaah this is too confusing T_T, poor Mataza, we should have listened to him more closely.
On May 24 2011 12:05 Wunder wrote: Hi sinani~ These are all short posts near when something not related to discussion happens. We have here a post-lynch, a pre-lynch, and when I joined. Wunder is reading the thread and posting when important things happen to make himself look active, when he is actually purposefully lurking.
He also seems not to have time a lot:
On May 22 2011 09:31 Wunder wrote: Hmm, I don't have time to do the analysis, but I'll say this much, looking at the votelist from two days ago as well as the general back and forth in the posts, I have a heavy FoS on Prplhz. This is due to the fact that he swung the vote against GiygaS, meaning the third scum convinced him to let GiygaS go as he wasn't a great scum player.
This is backed up by his vote against Mataza, who tried to come up with a plan to expose at least one scum in the process. Unfortunately it was stopped by a starting vote by nard, and then followed by Prplhz, hiro, Skrammen, and most importantly VisceraEyes. Now Vis, why did you suddenly change your vote from being so adamantly against Palmar? Or is this just another subtle excuse.
We haven't seen any real analyses out of you yet. I'm not necessarily set on you, Wunder, but you better have something really good up your sleeve to convince me that you're town.
##Vote: Wunder
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Thanks for the analysis Sinai. Why am I not surprised that as soon as someone went back and had a look at Wunder's posts, he'd immediately find very suspicious stuff.
Your post is just sealing the deal as far as I'm concerned. Now we just need to decide in what order to hang them. Maybe one of them will swoop in and vote his partner in order to regain some trust?
@VisEyes & Stefftastiq, it's important that the town votes as whole now. I want to kill Hiro as I've had him pinned as mafia since day 2, but if you guys like Wunder better I can switch my vote over there. I was already very suspicious of him, and Sinai's analysis just organized what thoughts I had of the guy.
Just pick one and go.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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@Sinai Nice analysis - Wunder has been suspicious through the game - in addition to beeing fairly inactive
@Palmar Yeah - its going to be interesting to see if the town are who we think they are when we vote as a whole too :-p
Seeing other people voting early this day I would really like to see a response from hiro / wunder as well
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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It's up to you VisEyes.
If you vote Wunder I'll switch, if you vote Hiro I'll stick to it.
If you vote me, I'll stick you with the pointy end of a sword.
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On May 25 2011 19:15 stefftastiq wrote:
Seeing other people voting early this day I would really like to see a response from hiro / wunder as well
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
I don't talk with mafia, so they can remain silent for all I care.
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##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
I considered calling ur bluff Palmar...I don't think you've got the guts.
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yeah, I probably would just shout profanity and maybe poke you with a wooden stick a bit.
@sinani206
Are you cool with switching your vote to Hiro for this? We'll go straight for Wunder tomorrow.
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Yeah I guess I'll go hero for now. ##Unvote: Wunder ##Vote: hero protagonist
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Wow this thread isn't even top five on Mafia. Sad...
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Well, as I suspected from a day ago, Palmar jumps at any opportunity to continue his lynching. Unfortunately, I lack the time and the intelligence to construct a long analysis on either Palmar or VisEyes, but I congratulate the mafia for playing as well as they did.
There's probably nothing I can do to change the other townies minds, but I will throw my vote in incase there's some change of heart.
##Vote: Palmar
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I'm not jumping the opportunity to lynch Hiro Protagonist, I created the damn opportunity, I accused him first of all, but got side-tracked by the prplhz thing.
If you're not mafia, now would be the time to stop being useless and actually explaining to us why we should not be killing Hiro and you.
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Seems like the scum dont even bother to try to clear their the suspicions
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nobody got any opinions? :-p
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United States22154 Posts
Day 4 vote tally Wunder(0)
sinani206
Hiro Protagonist(4) Palmar stefftastiq VisceraEyes sinani206
Palmar(1) Wunder
Missing a vote from Hiro himself. Leading the vote is Hiro Protagonist with 4 votes, the day ends in about two hours. Activity levels disappoint me ;_;
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Aren't you glad you joined this sinani?
Most exciting mafia game on the forums!
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bah, real life...
It looks like I'm the one going down tonight. I had thoughts and analysis that i wanted to share, but not enough time now. well, this is my one shot at going for the real scum:
##Vote: Palmar
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On May 27 2011 10:14 hiro protagonist wrote: bah, real life...
It looks like I'm the one going down tonight. I had thoughts and analysis that i wanted to share, but not enough time now. well, this is my one shot at going for the real scum:
##Vote: Palmar
What size a noose do you use?
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United States22154 Posts
Day 4 vote tally (2) Wunder(0)
sinani206
Hiro Protagonist(4) Palmar stefftastiq VisceraEyes sinani206
Palmar(2) Wunder Hiro Protagonist
. Leading the vote is Hiro Protagonist with 4 votes, the day ends in about ten minutes!
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At least he showed up to call me scum...
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Day 4
The day had finally come. The day that Chaoser returned. Back from his international trip, he had experienced a multitude of different legal systems and as such walked into the court room with confidence. No matter how many Objection!'s and Take That!'s were thrown his way, his perfect case was unbreakable and soon the judge rained down a GUILTY verdict. The gallery cheered as hiro protagonist was placed into cuffs and escorted out by the baliff. A few hours later his death sentence was carried out and he was hung; red blood trickled down his mouth.
hiro protagonist the Mafia Roleblocker was lynched Chaoser the Prosecutor was back
Get your Actions to me and GMarshal in 24 hours!
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Nice town!
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Cool, we got this.
No matter who dies tonight, just go straight for Wunder.
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Good job people! See you tomorrow.
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@Wunder
Here's the thing. There are really strong arguments against you, and your overall play-style screams mafia. I am at this point, pretty sure that you're the remaining scum. There is just simply too much against you for me to believe anything else.
If you are town, as you claim, then it is time to step up and actually try to contribute something to the game. Explain everything you've done, find us a new lynch candidate and make a good case against that person. If you're town, and we lynch you, and then lose the game because of you being lazy, apathetic and selfish, then all I can say is that I hope I won't ever have to play with you again.
I mean, if you're the mafia, which I think is much more likely, then it's just fair game. You lurked throughout the game and got close to winning on it.
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if Wunder would show up to be scum - then this game actually has evolved around townies accusing and analyzing the shit out of each other just because all the townies were the active players :-p
weird! :-p
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Yeah... or well.
Still sucks that there were enough inactive players for the mafia to hide amongst. I hope everyone steps up their town game from this. If we are correct and win this, it's not because of us being a good town, but mainly because the mafia was kinda bad-ish.
Some of us tried, but what can you do when someone like Skrammen doesn't even bloody respond when he's voted so heavily day 1. Like... that's just bad town play. But I guess this is a newbie game, so it's kind of expected.
I tried to push for activity back in the early days, but that just got me almost lynched, so I just decided to say "fuck it" and start analyzing what little information we had.
Thing is, even if we win this, it'll be kinda lucky. I could've made an almost equally strong case against nard or wunder, as I did against Hiro, and perhaps we would've shot wrong last lynch and lost the game right there.
The main reason I'm almost 100% sure Nard (sinani206) is clear is that a mafia player would probably not get himself replaced this late in the game. Like, that scumswitch to Hiro on day 3 was completely useless... Why would you do that when it just changes the score from 5-2 to 4-3?
And sinani steps in, and seems to not really have any issues with voting for Hiro and thus killing him, leaving Wunder the only person protecting him, even providing a pretty solid analysis. I especially loved the part where he checked the timings of Wunder's few posts, and pointed out his "I don't have time" excuse for lurking.
Just make sure that you don't let Wunder off the hook barring some extraordinary situation, one of us will die, but I can't really see how anyone dying but Wunder himself would change anything.
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didnt anybody get killed?
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Yeah where's the day post?
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Also, chaoser, shouldn't your post be the night post?
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Oops. Was watching Red, will post lol
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Night 4
Damnit! GMarshal thought to himself. He couldn't end the case and get his client acquitted in one day and that meant someone was going to die. Those were the arrangements, and they were kept. The police arrived at the house of sinani206 at 9:00 PM at night only to have found that he had been shot twice in the head. On a desk they found but one card. The card of the killer. What will happen tomorrow?
sinani206 the Vanilla Townie was killed
48 Hours to decide on a lynch!
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Also, how was I shot twice if the Mafia only have one bullet?
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gg bro
unless someone has a better idea
##Vote: Wunder
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nothing has really changed since yesterday
##Vote: Wunder
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This game sure lost steam fast... pretty disappointing.
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United States22154 Posts
Wunder leading the vote count. I am disappointed at the level of activity -__-
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Don't make me spam the thread with
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im gonna do it:
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I'm gonna join in!
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Dead Townies Society, stand up!
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On the bright side, almost all the active people from this game have signed up for PTP mafia
I see... VisEyes, Mataza, Karshe, Myself, Hiro Protagonist, Sinani206 all in the list, and Prplhz just added signed up, so he'll probably get a spot too.
Enjoy the popcorn guys!
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lol - this is interesting - the Wunder not even trying to convince us he is not guilty? or is this a part of the scum plot
not really much to write about when theres no activity :-p
@Wunder
sup?
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I'll try to throw a little insight around.
So yeah, main thing is that his behavior doesn't make any sense if he's town. To try to add some content that can at least be discussed, I'll try to analyse what could explain Wunder's behavior and his patterns.
Here are the assumptions:
a) If Wunder does not act, he remains the prime suspect
b) The longer Wunder doesn't act, the more chance we have on turning on each other, on the basis of "Mafia would never be that inactive/apathetic" or "if he was Mafia he would've conceded".
If Wunder remains the prime suspect, it is bad for him. If he's mafia, he loses the game, if he's town he also loses the game, barring a random doc/cop combo that I very much doubt exists. So Wunder is in a situation where he must get the focus off himself, to have a chance to win the game.
Now the problem is, how does he achieve this. He could either try to defend himself and accuse someone else, or he could hope that his inactivity "proves" his innocence, and we start hunting for a new target.
But while the result of both paths is the same (reduced suspicion on Wunder), the way in which they achieve it is vastly different. And unfortunately for Wunder, he has picked the way that only makes sense if you are mafia.
If he becomes active, defend himself and accuses someone else, he's actively trying to win the game as town. Because if he's town, he not only has to clear himself, but also has to correctly identify the mafia in the other three remaining players. Lynching another townie is just as useless as getting lynched yourself as town.
If he however, just remains inactive and hopes that will somehow make us think he's a bored/bad townie, all it does is clear himself, without so much as trying to actually identify the correct mafia, and thus win the game. There is no town-logic that can be applied to make this the better approach.
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Nomnom. Dead townies, I will join.
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Yeah, this is exciting :
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United States22154 Posts
Wunder *still* leading the lynch. 20 minutes till game end. Is the town correct? or are they about to lose the game? You'll find out soon enough
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United States22154 Posts
Endgame
The last three members of the town gathered in the town square to decide who must be killed. They knew that the end was at hand. The bloody killings would end today, one way or another. Palmar the town hero, the man responsible for hiro protagonist's death pointed at Wunder.Stefftastiq looked at him and nodded, it had already been decided. Without speaking much they dragged Wunder up to the gallows and stung him up. Even as they hung him Wunder remained stoic, silent, almost as if he weren't really there.
His neck broke with a solid snap, and green blood flowed out from his neck. stefftastiq turned around, shocked, only to see the flash of a gun, a gun that Palmar was holding. With a smile and a wink Palmar fired. stefftastiq died, surprise and panic still painted on his face. With one last look at the town Palmar got into his car and drove off, the mafia had made its point, they were above the law, and those who stood in their way would be crushed.
Palmar the mafia goon wins the game for the mafia team Wunder the Vanilla townie is lynched steffastiq the Vanilla Townie is killed in the endgame
Mafia team wins! Really well played by Palmar, inactivity *really* killed this town off, which is a shame, especially after such a strong start
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lol - kind of what i feared :-p
@Wunder - !!! you should have spoken!
@VisceraEyes - Where did you go!?
@Palmar: Well played
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I so knew it Palmar
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United States22154 Posts
VisceraEyes and Wunder, just checking, but you were both alive and didn't vote, right? -__-
If you guys did vote, speak up now, as it is you are facing modkills, which translate to one game bans...
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The only reason I ever defended Palmar was because I had a doctor reading on him. Had I lived after Prplhz flipped green, knowing there really is a roleblocker, I would have immediately pushed Palmar.
Also he was the one railing on my roleclaim plan like mad. I guess he knew it would have screwed him over. If not, let me live my illusions.
People just can´t appreciate a gamewinning gamble.
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If they get banned, are they out of PTP? They signed up before the end of this game.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 30 2011 11:17 Varpulis wrote: If they get banned, are they out of PTP? They signed up before the end of this game. I don't know, up to the mod/the ban list rules, I'm not sure if PTP counts as having started or not if it has then they are allowed to go on with it according to the rules. if they have mitigating circumstances they should PM me, I hate to be a bad guy, but they didn't vote in the last day and those rules are in place to keep people from doing this exact thing, where they go AFK for no good reason and cost their side the game. Its unfair to those that actually tried to win at lylo that they just sort of quit.
(had to edit twice to fix things, my first assumption was wrong, also funny that this is post 666...)
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thanks for hosting GMarshal. it was fun.
It was inactivity that really won us the game (that and Mataza getting himself killed thanks to townie bandwagoners ) hell if you would have told me after day one that Mataza and Prplhz would be the next lynches, I would think you crazy!
to the awards!
@ Mataza: we asked GigyaS to go on the attack on you. what a mistake that was! I had to watch out for your hooks all game long! btw, did you think I was a doc?
@VisceraEyes: your where one dedicated townie. if it wasn't for such a inactive town, we would have murdered you much earlier. you did alot to keep the town going, and tryed your best. Your a good player and you have a lot of respect form me.
@phplhz: you sir, had us pegged. if the town would have listened to you, we surly would have lost. also, you gave me a heart attack when you did that day 1 vote switch! I wounder what would have happened if you had not...
@GigyaS: just when we thought you where safe, you got lynched day 1! sorry buddy, but at least we won!
@Palmar: my partner in crime, you made a great scum buddy! you did all the heavy work while I played the "Innocent, inactive, townie" (which alot of people saw through). It was you great plan to have me lynched which set us up for victory. MVP this game for sure.
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Confirming that they did in fact fail to vote. Should I inform deconduo? VisceraEyes is signed up for his game.
edit: Let's ask Qatol, he's the authority on matters like this. Where'd that damn ban thread go...
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United States22154 Posts
On May 30 2011 11:24 Varpulis wrote: Confirming that they did in fact fail to vote. Should I inform deconduo? VisceraEyes is signed up for his game. decons game has already started, so he can't be forced to sit it out. I posted the ban request in the ban list. I was just making sure. any further discussion can be taken up with me in PMs
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Good game all, well played Palmer. It's a shame the game spiraled down to inactivity, but I still had fun.
Looking forward to the next game with you all!
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Meh, I had thought of this. It was 50/50.
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I´m so angry at myself. I should have called out Palmar, since he telegraphed Karshe´s death.
It´s depressing when you tell everyone to play like there were no blues, and then I get myself killed because I thought someone is blue. Well played Palmar. Getting me down was your winning move imho.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 30 2011 11:43 Mataza wrote: I´m so angry at myself. I should have called out Palmar, since he telegraphed Karshe´s death.
It´s depressing when you tell everyone to play like there were no blues, and then I get myself killed because I thought someone is blue. Well played Palmar. Getting me down was your winning move imho. You really shot yourself in the leg with the claims plan, blues without conclusive results should *never* claim before lylo. Requesting blue claims early is super scummy. Also never ever assume anyone has a blue role or point it out, if they are town they become a target for mafia, if they are mafia you buy them town cred, just don't do it, play as if everyone were a vt.
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On May 30 2011 11:43 Mataza wrote: I´m so angry at myself. I should have called out Palmar, since he telegraphed Karshe´s death.
It´s depressing when you tell everyone to play like there were no blues, and then I get myself killed because I thought someone is blue. Well played Palmar. Getting me down was your winning move imho.
Actually, it was my idea
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EBWOP:
to have you lynched i mean.
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@GMarshal
Great game! thanks!
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Yeah, just learned the hard way. The only reason I considered this was because I could keep the doc hidden, if there ever was one. In a game this small, chances are cop dies before lylo and cop who doesn´t give any info is useless.
I really feel bad for my subpar play. But I don´t think my plan was bad in itself, just because it involved roleclaims. In my experience a good cop can make or break the game, and claiming early enough is part of this(Btw I am an excellent cop).
Time to let it go.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 30 2011 12:03 Mataza wrote: Yeah, just learned the hard way. The only reason I considered this was because I could keep the doc hidden, if there ever was one. In a game this small, chances are cop dies before lylo and cop who doesn´t give any info is useless.
I really feel bad for my subpar play. But I don´t think my plan was bad in itself, just because it involved roleclaims. In my experience a good cop can make or break the game, and claiming early enough is part of this(Btw I am an excellent cop).
Time to let it go. A cop has to crumb well, so that town can go back over his posts and be like "huh, after night 3 he was much more suspicious of _____" so that the information is passed off without need of a claim.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hi. Sorry, I had a family emergency and I couldn't post anything for the day cycle, let alone do an analysis. Sorry town, I'd had loved to try and pin Palmar up again, but I failed
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I was right about hiro and glygas. I didn't pick a 3rd person really. I would have picked wunder over palmar though tbh.
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Good game everyone.
I know I was super scummy and suspicious since day one, I'll learn from that in the future.
I think some good player once said "This game is not about what you know or what you can guess, it's about what you can make others believe".
I hope to play with most of you again. Any harsh words and insults I've thrown around were done for the sake of the game, so I apologize if anyone took offence.
Oh, and extra thanks to my scum partners, GiygaS and Hiro Protagonist. Hiro will be the unsung hero of this game, he really played his part like a champion.
See you in PTP!
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haha, good game everyone & well played mafia.
too bad the last days consisted of only a few posts each, not sure if it would have changed the outcome though. didnt expect palmar to be the last mafia!
sorry again for leaving midgame, kinda busy atm. fun read though, i'll observe a few more mafia games and probably join in again mid-august, should have more time available then.
thanks gmarshal and chaoser for putting up with hosting a newbie game!
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Oh yeah, that's right
Big thanks to GMarshal and chaoser for hosting and modding this. This was very fun, and it ran smoothly.
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