EPTThat said, I have protected Orange for two nights in a row now... so I sincerely hope he is not scum. >.>
Experiment Mafia II - Page 19
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Protoss1
47 Posts
That said, I have protected Orange for two nights in a row now... so I sincerely hope he is not scum. >.> | ||
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Blue1
71 Posts
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Protoss1
47 Posts
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Orange2
103 Posts
On May 03 2011 03:49 Blue1 wrote: I'm not saying that you did. I'm saying that orange is pushing mafia objectives. I'm not going to argue with you blue, medic lists are good, if I kept mafia from firing into those lists then that is a good thing, since it protected the more protown players, thats part of the point of a medic list as well, to make mafia kill less valuable players out of fear of wasting kills. I'm sorry if you think that is anti-town but you are downright wrong. @Everyone else: where the hell are you and what are you doing? We are one lynch away from lylo, we cannot afford inactivity! | ||
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Blue1
71 Posts
I am MEDIC. If there is no roleblocker this game, me and protoss can win by simply protecting each other every night. Now I'm going to explain to you my whole thought process this game so you can all see orange is scum. Day 1 I was pretty convinced protoss was mafia because of the way he behaved. I thought there was a slight chance of him being blue so I switched my vote to red and laid a bait for him on night 1, hoping he would expose himself (which he kinda did, but for diferent reasons than what I imagined at the time). I choose to protect purple, because I felt like it would be a strategic hit for mafia since he was acusing me of being scum, so killing him would be a good way of making me suspicious. I ask you to take a look at Orange's medic list at night 1. He did not ask for protection for protoss, because being mafia and protoss hinting blue the whole day 1 he wanted to snipe him. So I posted asking for medic protection for protoss as a bait (as explained above). So the hits on night 1 are random and purple(protect). So day2 comes and the thought of there being multiple medics never crossed my mind. So I proceed to lay this bait, hoping to both expose mafia and try to confirm purple(which I was sure was town, since I didn't consider the possibility of another medic) : On April 29 2011 13:57 Blue1 wrote: Gratz to the medic for doing a great job tonight. Looking at the kill tonight, I have to ask myself who the second target was. After pink's analysis, I think it's very likely that it was me, so assuming me and random were the targets tonight, I wonder who would benefit from this the most. Me and random were on purples list, but he seems to be a vet and wouldn't hit us because that would pretty much make him very suspicious. That makes purple very likely to be town. So the question is, who would benefit from making purple very suspicious? The best answer I can come up with is newbie mafia protoss. It's a very linear way of thinking. I was tuneling him hard in the begining so it makes sense for him to get rid of me and at the same trying to make purple look suspicious because both me and random were in his list. I'll post a more detailed analysis of his posts tomorrow, because right now I'm going to bed. I knew that the first one to question the medic protecting me had a high probability of being mafia (because only mafia knew for sure that I wasn't the target), so I wanted to at best catch scum with this post and at worst try to confirm purple as townie. So just like that orange comes with this post: On April 29 2011 17:06 Orange2 wrote: I don't like this post for a bunch of reasons 1.) Gratz to the medic for doing a great job tonight. congratulating the medic is the oldest scum tell in the book, its old so its obviously not as valuable now that it is well known, but seeing it still sets off alarms. 2.) Assumptions about the kills If playing mafia has taught me anything is to not try to outguess mafia, when you don't who they are it is useless to try to guess their motives or actions since we don't have as much information as they do. Unless you are a veteran and were notified that you were hit (and I dont know if they are, the OP is unclear) then saying it was probably you is basically pulling it out of your ass, it could have easily been aimed at pink or myself as well, coming up with assumptions based on that and using them to try determine the motives of the mafia is bad play at best, scummy at worst. 3.) Based on point 2, its a content less post, as everything from "assuming me and random were the targets tonight" is utterly worthless. 4.) It draws up a clear relationship between blue and purple based on nothing. what is interesting is that this post tries to bring credit to both blue and purple, suggesting a possible relationship there. Take note of it, it may be relevant later. If you are going to draw conclusions based on kills, do them on the ones you know happened, not on the ones you think might have been attempted, to do otherwise is not only foolish, but suspicious. Looking over Randoms posts in a bit. So he did exactly what a good scum player would do: Discredit my analisys and cast suspicion over me and purple. He never for a second considered the possibility of me being right about the medic protect, because he KNEW I was wrong. Right here he's pushing mafia objectives, because the worst thing for mafia is a confirmed townie. Also note that he aparently doesn't know how the medic role functions claiming that the OP is unclear, when the OP clearly states that neither the medic nor the person who got hit is informed about the save. I never corrected him on this, because I didn't want to give up the fact that I was medic. Note this for later. So at this point my mafia team was Protoss and Orange. I didn't think I could sucessfully push for a Orange lynch at this point without revealing my role, so I went ahead and tried to push for protoss. Suddenly green, which was about to be banned from the forum appears and claims sheriff: On April 30 2011 00:46 Orange2 wrote: Just to be clear, this is a serious blue claim, right? This isn't "my gut says" and thus I am a "sheriff" you are claiming Cop . what result, exactly did Zerg1 return? On April 30 2011 00:50 Orange2 wrote: Roleblocker isn't an alignment. You are lying. Lynch all Liars. Note that green had a plan here. If he wished to ruin the game, he would have said: "Hi, me and zerg are scum, bye bye." So you ask, what was their plan all along? Note the timing of those messages. Note that green answered it wrong (LOL, seriously, if you are fake claiming DT you at least read the fucking role in the OP). So their plan was, since green was getting banned, to build as much town cred as possible for orange (the one who exposed him) and cast suspicion on zerg for an easy lynch on day 3 (zerg is being inactive and his posting is scummy, so he was the easiest target for a lynch). Orange posts this anaysis of how zerg was most likely scum: On April 30 2011 01:11 Orange2 wrote: While we wait on that, let us critcaly analyze green's claim, now as I see it there are four possibilities here 1.) Green is a cop, and checked zerg, despite the "minor" inconsistency with his role not working as detailed in the OP, it might be possible, in that case if we lynch him when the ability flips tomorrow we find we have two mafia left and lynch zerg, because in that case we know green was probably not lying 2.) Green is scum, and this is a ballsy play to survive, in that case I would argue red was probably his partner and he wants us to lynch zerg so that when we flip the reveal tomorrow we "confirm" him as the DT. Its a ballsy play if thats the case as he might win the game with it. Otherwise if we lynch zerg on his word and get a return of 2 mafia tomorrow we lynch him 3.) Green is a townie who is fucking with us. If so then he is driving us to case 4, as if we lynch him and the flip the check to see there are 2 mafia left the logical conclusion is to lynch zerg, which if zerg isn't mafia (And if green is a townie he dosn;t know for sure) will cost us the game. 4.) green is a traitor who is trying to get us to waste a lynch on him to bring about lylo with 2 mafia left alive, this is an odd possibility, as I don't think the traitor role is present in this setup, but if its the case and we lynched zerg then him then mafia would win, so I wouldn't discount it as a possibility. as I see it, its best to lynch green and see the mafia numbers tomorrow, if there are two left we lynch zerg, the only case where this backfires is #3, and #4, which I see as a less than likely scenarios, although they *could* happen I suppose. Thinking ahead, good play by him, being mafia and all. At this point nobody really suspected orange to be mafia so green goes ahead and posts this gem: On April 30 2011 06:43 green2 wrote: I'm more than content being lynched. Based on what I've read so far, it's going to guarantee a win for my side. So, at this point I was still pretty positive that protoss was mafia, because I couldn't fit him in any other role. I considered the tought of green being a traitor and trying to derail protoss lynch so I continued to push protoss. Then protoss shatters my world and posts he's medic and that he protected orange. Fuck, it all makes sense now, that's the only possible blue role protoss could have had which I was not considering, because I was the medic. My first urge was to post "haha gotcha, I'm the medic, game over!". But then I realised that it made sense to have 2 medics sinse the mafia kp starts at 2. Also claiming medic as mafia makes no sense at all, specially for a new player. So I instantly realised that he could not be lying. Alright so we lynch green and orange post his list: On May 01 2011 15:00 Orange2 wrote: Its night time, which means its list time! So, my medic/dt list for tonight Medic Protects blue1 -so he fucked up, but he was trying to scumhunt and his tunneling on protoss all indicate town to me, send a protection his way purple2 - another active poster, he has done nothing to make me think he is scum and has some posts that seem town to me. Protect him! orange2 - again, I'm heavaly biased but I have the certainty that this guy is town =P terran1 - he is suspicious of me, he is wrong, but that demonstrates a willingness to think and expose himself, I'm thinking he is town at the moment, if he isn't we should find out when he posts more Now before anyone asks you'll notice, now I personally buy his medic claim, however if he survives till tomorrow and there are still mafia left then we have to deal with the whole issue of is he town or was he lying again, if medics were notified of absorbed hits then I would argue that its a great idea to protect him, if we have a second medic and he protects protoss and protoss gets cleared if the second medic claims, then the two medics protect each other the next night and (assuming green was scum) we just lynch everyone else, proceed to ride that to victory. With no notifications and the knowledge that the previous experiment contained three medics any medic who protects protoss and sees only one hit get through tonight has to guess, was it my protect? or did someone else get protected and I have no proof of protosess' alignment? I'd rather we not have to deal with that, too much guessing and wifom that can only end up hurting the town. Sorry protoss but I see you as a write off, on the bright side that makes you one less suspect, on the not so bright side we lose a medic and a town player, assuming you are telling the truth. If we knew we had three medics 100% then I would actually be ok with a protect on protoss, but we cannot know that either, and the possibility of mafia not shooting to get a "confirmed" townie is enough to worry me. DT List yellow1- has a good number of posts yet not a single one seems memorable to me, looks like a lurking scum pink2 - I think he is scum, no real contribution outside of the "plan" and a nice omgus when under pressure, check this scum and dont be surprised if he returns red. Hell I think a vigi shot would be well aimed if it were fired here. orange2 - Active players need to be checked, I'm active so check me zerg1 - active lurker, shows up with some posts and vanishes again, mafia suspect. On DTs, if you find mafia we need you to claim. Again checking protoss is a waste of a check mafia have to hit him tonight, if you want to check him however he might make tomorrow easier if mafia decide not to hit him/he is actually mafia. That is all, discuss! The bolded part is an extremelly mafia oriented plan: First he knows for a fact that there is another medic. Of course he does, since protoss protected him and he shooted purple night1. Second, he fears the medic is going to protect protoss and he will be left in an unwinnable situation as mafia, so his only chance is the medic not protecting protoss, so he can snipe him. Note also that none of the players that were on his list got shot last night. Note that also now he seems to know how the medic works, despite it being "unclear" before. So, I go ahead and point out his plan is bullshit and that the medic should indeed protect protoss. On May 01 2011 18:02 Blue1 wrote: Now that's the most anti-town plan I've seen in a while. Protoss claim makes so much sense that we would have to be blind not to beleive him at this point. If mafia does not shoot, well that's wonderfull for us. We can have more time to analyse everything and it only benefits the town. It looks like you want to snipe the medic and prevent us from having a confirmed townie in case there's another medic. Also you seem pretty sure that there are other medics, and that would only make sense if you were mafia and knew that because you were protected last night and your 2nd shot did not go through. Your fos on pink makes no sense aswell. I'd advise medics not to protect orange this night and dts to check him. After realising how much mafia oriented his plan was he goes ahead and tries to save face by saying he was trying to confirm a townie. This makes no sense whatsoever. First this adds a lot of confusion to the town, because we would always have to guess if he was lying or not. Second that does nothing to confirm scum, since missing this anti-town plan does not equal being scum, otherwise the whole town except for me would be mafia. Orange is a good player and he KNOWS this. That's not good town play. That's good scum play. Third he acused pink2 of being scum for doing the exact same thing he did: Posting a plan for the usage of the night power and confirming a townie through analysis. So we can all see he KNOWS that's not pro-town behaviour. Fourth, he had no way of knowing if someone would call him out on his anti-town plan, so he was risking the life of one of the medics if the other medic bought his plan. All this for the chance of confirming a TOWNIE. So I pretend to be convinced by his argument and change my focus, so I can have a higher chance of surviving the night: On May 01 2011 19:11 Blue1 wrote: Well, that's convinient. I must say orange that if you are mafia you are a clever one. On May 01 2011 19:15 Blue1 wrote: Pink, how do you feel about purple? I chose to protect protoss and I indeed survived (I expected as much, since I was on his medic protect list). So I go ahead and post this: On May 03 2011 02:24 Blue1 wrote: So the vote against red was 3-2 so the possible mafia in case red was mafia are terran, pink, orange and protoss. I find this scenario unlikely. If green was mafia, basically anyone could be mafia, but my main suspicions are Zerg and Orange. Zerg because his behaviour is extremelly scummy and maybe green was so frustrated that he wanted to destroy this game. Orange I have various reasons. First because he's been posting medic protect lists. This makes the job for mafia easier, specially if we have a new player who is medic in this game, who will probably follow that list. Second because his whole "gambit", just to confirm a townie, which makes no sense to me. What about your Lynch all Liers policy, does that only aplies when it suits you? Third because of green's reaction before he got lynched. The timing of it seems extremely planed. Green claims cop > Orange quickly asks him the result > Green proceds to mindlessly posting the wrong result (if this wasn't his plan he would have taken the time to read the dt role) > Orange points it out and become the town hero and suposebly clears him of suspicion. I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all. Voting Orange Which orange goes ahead a quickly retaliates: On May 03 2011 03:13 Orange2 wrote: Again I explained the gambit, and it was a gambit, not a lie, I misrepresented my stance and said something I didn't think, but I did not lie. Again it didn't have the payoff I expected, but that happens sometimes, it did give useful information. lying is where I claim DT and then say "lol I wasn't actually a dt" lying is not me proposing a dubious plan to see who calls it out as dubious. One involves an attempt to fool the town into doing what you want them based on things that are wrong, the other is a tactical maneuver to try to catch mafia/identify town And saying that posting medic protect list is scummy is utter BS, medic lists/dt lists only help the town, 1.) they make my stance on who I think is valuable clear, 2.) They make the mafia face wifom when choosing targets 3.) they help inexperienced players realize who to protect. 4.) they provide a focal point of discussion. This arguments was made in XXXVIII, read the post game, BC clearly states that medic lists are a good thing to have. On me calling out green on his BS, its the standard procedure, you always ask what the exact result was, its the same way Protac was called out in XXXVIII. I apologize for jumping on scum when I identify them, next time I'll just let them spam their lies happily to avoid undue suspicion. I had green pegged as scum day 1, I was the first to call him scum and I consistently pressured him, and I identified his fake claim, if that makes me scummy in your eyes then so be it. I'm sorry that he was stupid enough not to read the role in depth, but knowing who it is, I'm not that surprised either. I notice that this accusation is coming up after I pointed out that both dead players fingered you as mafia, did I make you uncomfortable? Wait a second, wasn't the whole purpose of your plan to confirm me as town and now you are calling me scum? What's your logic here? I know, you are scum and are trying to cast suspicion on the one that was acusing you. So I hope you can see orange is scum and has been pushing mafia objectives since day1. Here is his list of "helpful questions" on day1: On April 27 2011 00:38 Orange2 wrote: Activity will not make itself, I will not allow this experiment to yield suboptimal results. Please all vote Random with me to force him to post. In order to encourage activity I will post some questions for discussion and a brief analysis Questions: 1.) What is your number one scum tell? meaning what kind of post or style immediatly makes you think someone is scum 2.) what is your number one town tell? 3.) What is your favorite role and why? 4.) Do you love the companion cube? I realize that these questions are not necessarily revealing in either direction, but they will generate information we can assimilate, it will also hopefully generate some controversy. Also this post is extremely scummy it says that the subject does not wish to be removed from the experiment, and claims the subject will sheep with the majority, this is a clear sign of scum trying to blend in, and should be a cause of immediate scrutiny and pressure FoS: Protoss1 Remember I will always be your faithful companion <3 These questions are extremelly mafia oriented. Question 1 and 2 helps mafia know how to behave so they are less suspicious, by gathering the opinion of everyone in the game and adapting properly. Question 3 he's trying to fish for blue roles. Orange has been asking questions and posting mafia friendly lists the whole game, without ever pointing a finger at anyone. He has pushed mafia objectives multiple times. His logic doesn't hold up. If somehow you are still not convinced orange2 is scum, I would like you to trust me on this one, because I'm willing to retire from mafia completely if I'm wrong about this. Vote Orange2 | ||
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Orange2
103 Posts
On May 03 2011 20:59 Blue1 wrote: If somehow you are still not convinced orange2 is scum, I would like you to trust me on this one, because I'm willing to retire from mafia completely if I'm wrong about this. Vote Orange2 I'll take you up on that, you are wrong 100%, and after this game is over I expect to see you quit forever, this is a statement completely opposed to the spirit of the game, but I *will* hold you to it. Whatever happened to leaving the game in the game? I'll rebuff your so called analysis later, I'm too pissed by this statement to do it in a civil manner right now | ||
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Blue1
71 Posts
There's no reason for you to be pissed about that fact, except if you are trying to build town cred. Fortunately for me I'll not be retiring because you are 100% mafia. | ||
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Orange2
103 Posts
If you are this bad then I *want* to see you quit mafia. If the rest of this town has two braincells to rub together they will lynch zerg or terran today, otherwise they'll lynch me and lose. Again I am done arguing with you blue, its evident that you are just an idiotic townie, and to start yelling at you now would only allow the scum to hide for the rest of the day, the scum is one amongst pink, zerg and terran. Also on me not knowing the medic mechanics, I was aware neither the medic nor the protected is notified, what I was not sure about is if veterans are notified as it does not say so in the OP, thanks for making shit up about me though, its much appreciated. I'm off to worry about lynching the actual mafia rather than the most vocal and pro-town player in the game. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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Orange2
103 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:23 Blue1 wrote: I eagerly await your rebuff orange. Why don't you just conceed? There's no reason for you to be pissed about that fact, except if you are trying to build town cred. Fortunately for me I'll not be retiring because you are 100% mafia. Fine, do you swear you will never play mafia on TL again if I don't turn out to be mafia? I dont mean as blue1 either I mean on you regular ID as well. Keep in mind I'll hold you to this. | ||
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Blue1
71 Posts
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
Grudgematch, grudgematch, grudgematch! [/end of message] | ||
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Orange2
103 Posts
Other than that, I think terran is more scum than zerg, so I will be voting for him. If the town lynches me and we go into lylo, then I want Protoss to protect blue and blue to protect protoss. From there you'll have to choose which of my top suspects to lynch. If its between Zerg and Pink you might as well lynch Pink, I think he is *slightly* scummier than Zerg, depending on how zerg steps up his game today, its going to be a coin flip though. ##Vote: Terran | ||
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Orange2
103 Posts
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Terran1
15 Posts
On May 03 2011 21:29 Orange2 wrote: Fine, do you swear you will never play mafia on TL again if I don't turn out to be mafia? I dont mean as blue1 either I mean on you regular ID as well. Keep in mind I'll hold you to this. First I would like to point out that these promises don't last long. Second I'd like Zerg1 to respond to my questions. On May 03 2011 21:44 Orange2 wrote: Done deal, enjoy your last game on TL. Other than that, I think terran is more scum than zerg, so I will be voting for him. If the town lynches me and we go into lylo, then I want Protoss to protect blue and blue to protect protoss. From there you'll have to choose which of my top suspects to lynch. If its between Zerg and Pink you might as well lynch Pink, I think he is *slightly* scummier than Zerg, depending on how zerg steps up his game today, its going to be a coin flip though. ##Vote: Terran Wait, both blue and Protoss claimed medic? | ||
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Blue1
71 Posts
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Orange2
103 Posts
On May 03 2011 20:59 Blue1 wrote: Alright, I'm 100% sure orange is mafia, so I see no point postponing this: I am MEDIC. If there is no roleblocker this game, me and protoss can win by simply protecting each other every night. @Terran. As far as the promise goes, we will see, I intend to hold him to it. | ||
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Pink2
23 Posts
I am a MEDIC. This is crumbed in my very first post, which you can find here. There are two ALLCAPS words (other than LYLO and MYLO): CANDY & STRIPPER. (What is a Candy Striper?). I think that should serve as a sufficient crumb. Now, what does this mean: This means there are THREE CLAIMED MEDICS. In an 11 player game. Which means there probably is (or was at the start) a traitor, and at least 1 mafia has to be a roleblocker, possibly both. The other option is a false medic claim, but I've been getting such strong town reads on Blue and Protoss, idk if thats likely. My strong suspicion is that Zerg and Orange are scum/traitor, one of each. I think a full Mass Claim today would be nice. Everyone, please claim your roles and any actions you have taken. My actions are: N1: None'd (I was late). N2: Protected Protoss1. | ||
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Pink2
23 Posts
![[image loading]](http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs20/f/2007/244/0/0/I_heart_Pink_by_nyssi.gif) | ||
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Orange2
103 Posts
I'm still not mafia, but if the three of you are telling the truth then I'm happy to hang in order to win the game. I'd rather start with terran or zerg ofc, but other than that it works. | ||
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