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On May 12 2012 22:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 12:53 Nisani201 wrote:
Even if the infected townie claims, the rest of the town has to decide who to bond with. 1 mafia and 1 town infected probably isn't the best idea, but throwing in more infected mafia or infected town can make it more interesting.
The problem with only putting mafia in the infected group is that it would be in town's best interests to never bond with anyone. In that case, the alternate town win-con would be for a certain amount of vaccines to be created. But at that point, it becomes more of a free-for-all because different people can have different amounts of vaccines. Well, what if town doesn't know who's infected, and scum knows at the start of the game who is infected. Then town has a power role "microbiologist" who can check for infection (and maybe cure it). Wincon for scum is to infect everybody. Town wincon is to kill scum? I dunno, needs some refinement, but something like this might work?
If town members don't know if they are infected or not then I don't know how they would win. You're pretty much in the dark for the entire game. Mafia would need to be heavily nerfed to make it balanced.
I think a good set up would be 3 infected town and 2 infected mafia in a 30 player game. Mafia's win condition is to infect 20 players and town's win condition is to not let that happen by a certain deadline. During the day people can bond, and at night mafia can choose to infect someone, and town members can have roles like Electrician (they use Akiyama's "trick" and it actually works), Doctor, Detective, and possibly some other roles.
Thoughts? I would be willing to host this, except it might be hard without a bot to tell people what their status is.
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something very similar has been done already, from what I recall;
wasn't that what the third party in Cosmic was supposed to do?
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I think I´m going to run with a few silent hours, or maybe many, at the end of the night. The only thing I want to eliminate is the practice of sneaking in posts that would have been relevant to the planning of night actions. Even if town suspect that none of the scum are online around the deadline, they can´t know for sure, and that´s enough to prevent posts like this: I´m a DT and I checked A as scum yesterday. or this:
My scumreads are X and Y.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Maybe that could be solved by having a 24 hour night with 12 hours posting and 12 hours of silence? a 12 hour period should be enough for people to check in and change night actions even if their sleep cycle is right in the middle of it.
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I prefer a night action resolution period where people can't change actions, but you can still talk.
e.g. for a one hour period before deadline you can say anything as normal but no night actions can be changed. There have been instances in past games (and this has happened to me specifically more than once) where scum teams have changed their night actions based on something I've said AFTER the deadline.
Now of course that's because the host wasn't around in time to post the night post. In situations like these the host has made the argument that if you posted after deadline then mafia can change actions after deadline as well; it's only fair. To allow for crumbing and things like that but to make it fairer I think making it public that there is a 23 hour period for actions and a 1 hour period for resolutions (no actions are allowed to be sent) is good.
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Forumite in Aperture Mafia I ran with a 1 hour resolution period similar to what you are describing. I felt as though It went very well. One thing to note though is to make it very clear to the players that they have to have their actions in before the period.
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So the problem is having people not being able to post "deadline info" because of time zones right?
The 1 hour period would solve that, but only for few people.
If you are in the middle of the night sleeping when the deadline arrives, then you'll be so too 1 hour before most likely.
If you are at work/uni/etc then it's likely you'll miss it as well.
What about wills then?
I'm sure some of you guys played epicmafia and recognize them.
Each night every player can send a statement/post to the host, and if he were to die that night, his statement/post will be revealed to town in the Day Post as a "will".
I've hosted a game in UG with it and it worked alright (cops and shit could put the results of their checks there for instance, without having to worry about being around in the deadline to make their claims).
Yes, it's kind of specific, since anyone can make a will and they know it will be shown if they die, and it's not just like posting in the thread (where you don't know if you'll die or not), but it's a start and it's an already known and used game mechanic.
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I don't like the "will" idea. Takes away the choice of when and how you reveal your role/actions. There would be no reasons to ever breadcrumb or reveal your results before you died or at MYLO/LYLO (or other minor cases). I like that fact that people have to make an active choice "Am I going to die tonight? Should I reveal my checks?"
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On May 22 2012 09:57 GreYMisT wrote:
Forumite in Aperture Mafia I ran with a 1 hour resolution period similar to what you are describing. I felt as though It went very well. One thing to note though is to make it very clear to the players that they have to have their actions in before the period. Interesting. I like it, having some kind of period before the deadline when nightactions are fixed. I would probably have that period silent though. Perhaps last half of the night silent, and nightactions are fixed 10 or 30 minutes before the deadline.
On May 22 2012 15:53 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't like the "will" idea. Takes away the choice of when and how you reveal your role/actions. There would be no reasons to ever breadcrumb or reveal your results before you died or at MYLO/LYLO (or other minor cases). I like that fact that people have to make an active choice "Am I going to die tonight? Should I reveal my checks?" I agree that using a "will" is bad. Some games might use them as an interesting mechanic, but it´s really just an organized version of the analysis posts that are posted right at the deadline, it´s getting info to town without scum being able to react. I want mafia to know everything town knows, and be allowed to use the nightkill to shut people up.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 22 2012 17:17 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 15:53 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't like the "will" idea. Takes away the choice of when and how you reveal your role/actions. There would be no reasons to ever breadcrumb or reveal your results before you died or at MYLO/LYLO (or other minor cases). I like that fact that people have to make an active choice "Am I going to die tonight? Should I reveal my checks?" I agree that using a "will" is bad. Some games might use them as an interesting mechanic, but it´s really just an organized version of the analysis posts that are posted right at the deadline, it´s getting info to town without scum being able to react. I want mafia to know everything town knows, and be allowed to use the nightkill to shut people up.
Given how useful a "Will" might be maybe it would be better implemented as a town PR in a themed setup than as a global ability. The PR (let's call him the Executor, since that's a lawyer who does stuff related to wills IIRC) could nominate a player each night and that player would be entitled to a Will for the next night+day or something?
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Somebody needs to host a Catch 22 game. Break the rules, die. Make rules hard to understand. Make rules harsh. Watch the world burn.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Another game idea:
Standard game in respect to mafia numbers and nightkills.
Each night every town player makes a decision regarding their powers the following cycle. They either A) get to vote the following cycle, or B) get to be an alignment cop.
Each night mafia also get to make a decision regarding their powers during the following cycle. They either A) get to vote the following cycle, or B) get to be a framer(which flip-flops any alignment).
Additionally, all voting(plurality lynch) is done privately through PMs. I think that's necessary to allow mafia maximum opportunity to control the votes.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Zona's Purgatory Mafia (link) had a similar mechanic in which over time one of the scum factions could take control of town votes and said townies would become non-VT-detecting cops. The mechanic was pretty interesting. As far as private PM voting, are we talking "with votecounts posted at the end of the day" type of thing, or completely concealed voting? If votecounts are posted at the end of the day, it's much better for town.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I was imagining that votecounts would be hidden, and that player X would simply be lynched at the deadline.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Oh, right that makes sense-- this would be because that way mafia couldn't identify who had used night actions and who hadn't by seeing who voted. I like this idea.
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15 players. closed setup. all townie. only way to win is to not lynch twice in a row.
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On May 27 2012 00:31 chaoser wrote:
15 players. closed setup. all townie. only way to win is to not lynch twice in a row.
random night kills? town loses if they are ever only 6/8 left?
didn't igrok want to host an all town game at some point
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Greymist/Hassy/Drazerk, if your Dota Mafia thing ever gets made:
Make sure you include Roshan as a bulletproof survivor who drops the Aegis of the Immortal (to a random person who voted for him) if he gets lynched :D
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On May 22 2012 10:04 gonzaw wrote:
What about wills then?
I'm sure some of you guys played epicmafia and recognize them.
Each night every player can send a statement/post to the host, and if he were to die that night, his statement/post will be revealed to town in the Day Post as a "will".
I've hosted a game in UG with it and it worked alright (cops and shit could put the results of their checks there for instance, without having to worry about being around in the deadline to make their claims).
Yes, it's kind of specific, since anyone can make a will and they know it will be shown if they die, and it's not just like posting in the thread (where you don't know if you'll die or not), but it's a start and it's an already known and used game mechanic.
naaah wills/death notes only benefit town unless there are third parties, in which case they might possibly benefit mafia.
If there's no breadcrumbing then mafia fake claiming becomes harder.
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As a 3rd Party, town-friendly 3rd-party but still, in Mafia LV, I got to thinking, how much should selfish 3rd-party and traitor-roles change the way I balance the game? Should survivors be treated as just another townie when setting up the game, or are they a half townie, or should they be treated as scum when balancing? What about SKs and traitors?
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EPT
