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So, it seems like it would be near impossible to balance, but I was thinking that a town power role with the ability to check scum QT would make for an interesting dynamic. Similar to the DiCaprio role in one of the sleeper cells, but I guess you'd need to limit it.
Full vision would be rough, you'd need to give QT aliases to everyone and they'd have to be really careful of their discussion in QT, and probably makes things too difficult for scum unless you give them a big boost in numbers. Even if you just give full vision for a small window, that's likely too much.
Perhaps they can use a night action to see scum QT for the next day? next day/night? just a window of hours to catch a discussion right before a lynch? Either scrubbed of names or with aliases again. Could either notify scum the power was active or not. There's a lot of tweaking there in terms of how much you see and how much warning scum get.
In my head it adds a really neat element, but maybe too much of a make or break role. If a game is balanced around QT being read, an early death on that player is probably gg. But if it's balance-able, I'd think it could really change the way a game plays out.
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On May 30 2012 17:30 Forumite wrote:
As a 3rd Party, town-friendly 3rd-party but still, in Mafia LV, I got to thinking, how much should selfish 3rd-party and traitor-roles change the way I balance the game? Should survivors be treated as just another townie when setting up the game, or are they a half townie, or should they be treated as scum when balancing? What about SKs and traitors?
I think with third parties who can side either way you should look at worst-case balancing.
In other words if a survivor that sides with one side changes the amount of days it takes that side to win, then you may have a problem.
SKs are a bit harder but basically they make both sides weaker. The extra KP is big so again you should look at the worst case for both sides (e.g. if all the SK shots hit townies or scum early on)
I personally would treat traitor as an extra half scum or so. If a traitor is included in a normal setup I'd probably not include any other third parties.
Multiple third party setups IMO should be reserved for themed setups.
This is of course all just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Something that seems to often get neglected with balancing is looking at the chance third party player has of winning, in addition to their impact on mafia/town.
A SK in a setup full of information roles and protection roles shouldn't have the same mechanics as a SK in a setup full of kp.
Another thing to keep in mind with traitors is that their value is impacted by the way they are recruited. A traitor who may be accidently shot is less valuable than a traitor who joins the mafia team whenever he is the target of a mafia action.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Idea for Mafia Mechanic:
Not sure if this is at all interesting, or just stunningly hard to balance. Each mafia member has 1 KP at his disposal, and 1 Alternate Ability. Each kill and ability is 1-shot. If that player dies, his abilities are lost to the team
The mafia team as a whole can only use 1 KP(depending on size) and 1 Ability per night. A player cannot use both abilities in the same night.
So an example team might be:
Toadesstern: 1 KP, 1 Roleblock
Radfield: 1 KP, 1 Frame
Talismania: 1 KP, 1 Medic Protection
Sbrubbles: 1 KP, 1 Roleblock
So N1, mafia use Toad's kill, and Rad's Frame. That means the next night their options are:
Toadesstern: 1 Roleblock
Radfield: 1 KP
Talismania: 1 KP, 1 Medic Protection
Sbrubbles: 1 KP, 1 Roleblock
And so on. Mafia would need to be overpowered to start the game, to account for the fact that they will be losing abilities as scum players are shot or lynched. The game could theoretically come down to mafia having no KP left, and having to force mislynches to win the game.
It's just a framework of an idea, and can be balanced any which way.
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Interesting. I like it 
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I like that it forces the mafia team to do some introspection about who seems to be the most vulnerable at any given time, so as to minimize the number of unused abilities. I'm not too comfortable with limited KP, though.
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RoL used a mechanic somewhat like that, I cohosted the game, I'll link it tomorrow.
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Tournament Mafia
Basically, you get ~60 people, host 5 games with 12 people in each. The winning team in each game advances to the next round, and the number of people and game type changes from then on depending on who wins. The last game would be great, because the best people would be there, and they would have already invested a ton of time to get there.
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On June 22 2012 11:20 MrZentor wrote:
Tournament Mafia
Basically, you get ~60 people, host 5 games with 12 people in each. The winning team in each game advances to the next round, and the number of people and game type changes from then on depending on who wins. The last game would be great, because the best people would be there, and they would have already invested a ton of time to get there.
Not really. The final game's composition likely wouldn't be much better than in an average game. The problem is that top players will carry their teams, and the top players not on that team will get weeded out. You are weeding out stronger players on the losing side in exchange for weaker players carried by their teammates. Sure you will weed out weaker players eventually, but it won't be as thorough as you're expecting.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Still sounds fun though
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Although the players probably wouldn't be better, the people playing would have already invested a lot of time in getting that far, so they would be a lot more active and at the top of their game, and I think the last game would be a really great one.
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[T] [M] Musical Chairs Mafia
3x Mafia Goon
10x Vanilla Town
This is my variation on Pick Your Power. At the beginning of the game, there are 13 available roles.
1. 2-shot Cop
2. 2-shot Medic
3. 2-shot Tracker
4. 2-shot Watcher
5. 2-shot Vigilante
6. Mason #1
7. Mason #2
8. Parity Cop
9. Veteran
10. Politician
11. 3-shot Godfather
12. 3-shot Roleblocker
13. 3-shot Janitor
During Night 0, each player will send in a PM requesting one of the roles. If a role is requested by exactly one player, that player will get that role. All other players will receive no role. Players will not be told which roles were taken/not taken.
Once each player has a role, he or she keeps that role for the next Day and Night. Then, each player repeats the role selecting process, in addition to sending in night actions, if applicable. At the beginning of the next day, each player receives the results of his or her night actions, as well as his or her new role status. A player can keep the same role for consecutive cycles.
Once a role has been killed, it is no longer available.
EDIT: To clarify, as my friends brought up a few questions, if player A is a 2-shot Cop, uses the ability, and then loses the role to player B the following cycle, player B will only have one use of the ability remaining, and will be informed of this.
Masons can only talk to each other, and only as long as both players are still Masons. Once one Mason role dies, the other is functionally vanilla.
The Parity Cop requires a bit of finagling, but has unlimited uses and works across non-consecutive nights, even if it's not used.
The Veteran survives the first shot made against a player with the role. Subsequent players gaining the role will be informed that their protection was used up.
The Politician's second vote is anonymous.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
There's no chance for crossover between mafia and town, is there? that sounds like it would be an interesting and difficult-to-balance mechanic. IT seems like if there isn't any crossover, mafia could just coordinate to have 1 pick the godfrather, 1 pick the janitor, and 1 pick the roleblocker without any chance of crossing fire and getting vanilla gooned.
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Alignment never changes. Town can try and pick mafia roles, and vice versa.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
OH, so a mafia player could become a mafia vigilante?? :D now that's interesting
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3rd Party role called Sisenis.
It is a lyncher with a twist.
You win by lynching one of your targets, however you get your pm a day or so earlier than day1 begins, and YOU get to pick who to lynch by pming host your target.
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That could be terribly cruel :3
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On June 25 2012 02:31 grush57 wrote:
3rd Party role called Sisenis.
It is a lyncher with a twist.
You win by lynching one of your targets, however you get your pm a day or so earlier than day1 begins, and YOU get to pick who to lynch by pming host your target.
Similar to Bugs' role in GoT mafia.
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I really like the sound of that musical chairs PYP variant! Go go make the game!
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I can't host games, but I certainly wouldn't mind someone else tweaking it and running it
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EPT
