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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
On April 15 2011 07:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Why don't you defend yourself properly instead of this guilt trip/sob story/psych me out bs Okay, I'll defend myself properly when you build a proper case around me enough to get me lynched/shot. But if you think, or anyone else for that matter, that I am scum compared to a possible 3-4 scum targets up to this point with my posts, then I have nothing to say. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 15 2011 07:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Also last game I was in (not tooo long ago) Gmarshal was the wishy washiest and most inactive lurker scum I've ever seen. Totally not how he's playing this game. Shit he gunned to get me lynched. He's just a bad scumhunter. On April 13 2011 11:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No, it's a bad and shitty play. Bum's analysis on you is pretty good. Looking back you've contributed much less than Kav. You've been wishy washy in your lynch choices. At first you said you'd lynch an inactive, this draws the least attention and is agreeable to most people. Then as soon as you're criticized for that seriously, you say "Yeah I'm gonna change! Stand up and be a man!" Then you go back to being completely indecisive and pretty much poking at inactives as soon as everything blows over. Your defenses here aren't convincing, they actually make you look a bit worse. I wish I had a read on your meta but I'm starting to think bum is right. Of course I won't put my votes on you until I read your post history for myself, I wish I had the time to do it today, but like I said: I'll wait until Day 2 to make a scum case. For the reason that I don't have time to analyse things much today and that it's just pointless to post it all at night since I'm invulnerable to hits for the time being. Is he wishy washy or not wishy washy to you? | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
I still FOS Rean and Serejai. If you are a newb Serejai please read some games and post better. You have not responded to any attacks towards you, whether you realized it or not, and are making people believe you are scum trying to coast along as a newbie more and more. Last game in Insane mafia 2, Lemonwalrus said it was his first game, Coag believed him to be a townie trying to learn the game when in fact he was scum, I will not tolerate people coasting by as a newb. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
From my cursory glance at the thread, no one has seemed to step up and deny that Serejai is probably a mafia, but everyone seems to glide over the issue to focus on other lynch targets. I think this is currently misguided, we can't know for certain if any of those people are mafia or not so we should wait for a few more night actions. On the other hand, we have an almost guaranteed mafia in the form of Serejai. The likelihood that Serejai is mafia is far greater than that of any of the other players, each of whom seems to have lots of supporters and detractors. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 07:53 ilovejonn wrote: Okay, look. I don't like where this is going. If you think I am scum and want to build a case around me fine. I will defend myself when I need to. I will let you have the last post on this matter if you will, but for now I will shut up and think about the situation and think of clear lynch targets. I still FOS Rean and Serejai. If you are a newb Serejai please read some games and post better. You have not responded to any attacks towards you, whether you realized it or not, and are making people believe you are scum trying to coast along as a newbie more and more. Last game in Insane mafia 2, Lemonwalrus said it was his first game, Coag believed him to be a townie trying to learn the game when in fact he was scum, I will not tolerate people coasting by as a newb. Does it really take 3 posts for you to tell me "if you want to call me scum build a case around me" On April 15 2011 07:47 chaoser wrote: I'm not asking about the inactive part. I'm asking about the wishy washy part. Yes he is and I think that's just bad town play on his part. He admitted himself he isn't a great scumhunter and it shows in his poor analysis. But he's a lot less wishy washy. He didn't have the courage to even TRY to make a scumcase when he was scum before and in this game he calls me out and I'm the most vocal poster. Big difference. Also noted: you show up at the same time I pressure LSB/Ilovejonn to indirectly defend them by discrediting Gmarshal. Here's an important thing I realized while I was on my way to take the bus home: Ilovejonn is completely willing to reject GMarshal's claim based on the idea that "oh he probably PM'd BrownBear to find out" yet insinuated Flamewheel could VERY WELL be the detective. This is completely contradictory logic. This is not the mistake of a townie who isn't thinking this is the mistake of someone who has a GOAL (to discredit GMarshal and block my plan from going through) and fucked up trying to achieve it. Trying to discredit GMarshal's DT claim while ignoring the fact that Protactinium 100% CONFIRMED lied about his claim is ridiculous. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 07:53 ilovejonn wrote: Okay, look. I don't like where this is going. If you think I am scum and want to build a case around me fine. I will defend myself when I need to. I will let you have the last post on this matter if you will, but for now I will shut up and think about the situation and think of clear lynch targets. I still FOS Rean and Serejai. If you are a newb Serejai please read some games and post better. You have not responded to any attacks towards you, whether you realized it or not, and are making people believe you are scum trying to coast along as a newbie more and more. Last game in Insane mafia 2, Lemonwalrus said it was his first game, Coag believed him to be a townie trying to learn the game when in fact he was scum, I will not tolerate people coasting by as a newb. of course you don't because i'm sayin you and lsb are scum | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:31 TranceStorm wrote: I just got back to this thread, and jesus christ I have missed so much. Personally, I feel that Serejai is definitely mafia because of his almost complete lack of comprehension in his posts. If you read his comments in some other threads, they seem rational and well thought-out as in he was definitely trying to understand the situation at hand. Here, however, he doesn't act like he's actively trying to understand whats going on and blatantly makes statements that defy logic What motivation would he have for doing so if he were town? From my cursory glance at the thread, no one has seemed to step up and deny that Serejai is probably a mafia, but everyone seems to glide over the issue to focus on other lynch targets. I think this is currently misguided, we can't know for certain if any of those people are mafia or not so we should wait for a few more night actions. On the other hand, we have an almost guaranteed mafia in the form of Serejai. The likelihood that Serejai is mafia is far greater than that of any of the other players, each of whom seems to have lots of supporters and detractors. I think Serajai is definitely town aligned. I have an issue with Serajai that must be resolved with the mod first though. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think Serajai is definitely town aligned. I have an issue with Serajai that must be resolved with the mod first though. Really? If you read his posts, they just seem to ignore all possible notions of logic meaning that he is deliberately putting on this facade of being new. No person would ever say that they believe that someone is correct because their icon is that of a DT unless they were deliberately acting in an illogical fashion. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:37 TranceStorm wrote: Really? If you read his posts, they just seem to ignore all possible notions of logic meaning that he is deliberately putting on this facade of being new. No person would ever say that they believe that someone is correct because their icon is that of a DT unless they were deliberately acting in an illogical fashion. Yes, I think he is town aligned. No one is taking his posts seriously, he isn't doing anything to affect the lynch/mislead town, he's essentially just posting jokes. It's hard to read that and I think there are bigger fish to deal with. i.e scum actively trying to mislead lynches/town i.e lsb | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:31 TranceStorm wrote: I just got back to this thread, and jesus christ I have missed so much. Personally, I feel that Serejai is definitely mafia because of his almost complete lack of comprehension in his posts. If you read his comments in some other threads, they seem rational and well thought-out as in he was definitely trying to understand the situation at hand. Here, however, he doesn't act like he's actively trying to understand whats going on and blatantly makes statements that defy logic What motivation would he have for doing so if he were town? From my cursory glance at the thread, no one has seemed to step up and deny that Serejai is probably a mafia, but everyone seems to glide over the issue to focus on other lynch targets. I think this is currently misguided, we can't know for certain if any of those people are mafia or not so we should wait for a few more night actions. On the other hand, we have an almost guaranteed mafia in the form of Serejai. The likelihood that Serejai is mafia is far greater than that of any of the other players, each of whom seems to have lots of supporters and detractors. Coming from a guy that makes the minimal amount of posts. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yes, I think he is town aligned. No one is taking his posts seriously, he isn't doing anything to affect the lynch/mislead town, he's essentially just posting jokes. It's hard to read that and I think there are bigger fish to deal with. i.e scum actively trying to mislead lynches/town i.e lsb Entirely within the realm of possibility. I have had a feeling since roles went out that coag was scum. If coag is I think it's pretty certain GMarshall is as well. The only thing that pisses me off is this whole thing has been orchestrated by somebody with a 3rd agenda. And I don't know for sure exactly wtf it is. I feel like I'm back in insane. I also feel like I'm being manipulated. Goddamit Flamewheel. Why did you have to go and pull a Pandain.  | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
DoctorHelvetica's Plan -GMarshal and the other (or if there are three all of them) check Coagulation on Night 2. -GMarshal announces his results. -If his results are incorrect, the other DT will claim and out him (and get medic protection that night) This is undeniably a winning scenario for town. Look at each scenario. GMarshal and Coagulation are SCUM. -GMarshal is forced to bus him. -If GMarshal lies about his claim to save Coagulation, the other DT calls him out and we lynch GMarshal and VIG HIT Coagulation. Netting a double scum kill. GMarshal is DT and Coagulation is scum -We lynch Coagulation and get a mafia kill. GMarshal is scum and Coagulation is blue -GMarshal is forced to lie and he will always lie that Coagulation is the veteran. -If Coagulation is actually a different green/blue role or an assassin the real DT will claim this and we lynch GMarshal. Both GMarshal and Coagulation are the roles they originally claimed. -We now have good information we can use to reevaluate Day 2 and we avoid wasting a lynch on Coag or Protactinium. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Plan -GMarshal and the other (or if there are three all of them) check Coagulation on Night 2. -GMarshal announces his results. -If his results are incorrect, the other DT will claim and out him (and get medic protection that night) This is undeniably a winning scenario for town. Look at each scenario. GMarshal and Coagulation are SCUM. -GMarshal is forced to bus him. -If GMarshal lies about his claim to save Coagulation, the other DT calls him out and we lynch GMarshal and VIG HIT Coagulation. Netting a double scum kill. GMarshal is DT and Coagulation is scum -We lynch Coagulation and get a mafia kill. GMarshal is scum and Coagulation is blue -GMarshal is forced to lie and he will always lie that Coagulation is the veteran. -If Coagulation is actually a different green/blue role or an assassin the real DT will claim this and we lynch GMarshal. Both GMarshal and Coagulation are the roles they originally claimed. -We now have good information we can use to reevaluate Day 2 and we avoid wasting a lynch on Coag or Protactinium. This will either: -Put huge pressure on GMarshal if he lied about his DT claim. -Get a scum kill -Confirm Coagulation without wasting vig hits/lynch and "give information" the proper way instead of the scum way (lynching/viging people) | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On April 15 2011 07:17 ilovejonn wrote: The only BAD situation I can think of for town is if we have no Vig's left after Pandain died. Therefore if Coag lives the night and claims a hit, and if no VIGI's step up to claim they shot Coag, I'm willing to bet Coag is scum. The bolded situation will never happen. Coagulation is Mafia. Lets say we go with your plan. If Coagulation doesn't die tonight, then Mafia know 100% that a Vigilante did not hit him. Thus, they would have one of their own claim Vigilante. Town keeps sheeping and Coagulation survives. "But this is too risky for the mafia to do!" you say. Not so. Like I've said earlier, Coagulation is already tied to all the mafia. Mafia have been pushing hard to defend him. They need to prevent Coag from flipping at all costs in order to prevent the entire mafia team from crumbling. On April 15 2011 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: He didn't want to claim. Scums goal is to get the claim in right away. He didn't claim until I actually pressured him to. It sounds like you have a preset agenda, you don't want to analyse the information to come to a conclusion, you want to manipulate the information to come to your conclusion. He says he didn't want to claim. But if you actually look at it: he does want to claim. You didn't really "pressure" him to. That's what he wants you to think. I mean, you asked GM a really simple question. But instead of arguing/asking the mod in the thread like chaoser did, he decides its too much pressure and decides to claim? Lol. Anyway, the suggestion of leaving Coagulation alive so that GMarshal can check him is simply insane. Why do you trust GMarshal's DT claim? GMarshal claimed DT under no pressure whatsoever. He never gave a credible reason for claiming DT. He only did it to attempt to discredit me. In GMarshal's own words: "I was hoping to keep this as a surprise to the scum in the lategame, but I'm not going to let the assassin get away with shit". Now just take a careful look at this claim. GMarshal claims that he wanted to keep his role a surprise, but decided that revealing yourself to "out" an assassin is worth giving up the advantage over the Mafia? That statement has no credibility whatsoever. Furthermore, GMarshal shows no real reluctance to claim DT. He makes this claim right after he accuses me of lying about being DT due to phrasing. (Like seriously, DT checks return roles, not alignments, in every normal TL mafia game. Just because I didn't adopt this game's convention of adding "Goon" after "Mafia" I'm a liar? Lol, this is not mafiascum, we don't have "tells" like that). There is nothing pressuring GMarshal to claim. Only half an hour of posting his divine revelation, GMarshal gives up his role. On April 14 2011 11:30 GMarshal wrote: Well then I guess I have no choice but to claim. I'm a DT. I will *not* reveal who I checked as to not put them into any danger. I was hoping to keep this as a surprise to the scum in the lategame, but I'm not going to let the assassin get away with shit. Wait, you're saying that you're claiming DT because DH asked about the rules? Give me a break. You didn't "have no choice". It was only half an hour before you made your accusation, and between the time that you posted it and claimed DT, there was no sign that there was "no more hope" for your claim to be successful. You planned to claim DT all along. You knew that your accusation was flimsy, and claimed DT to lend credibility to your attack. What's most telling though is your last sentence. You were hoping to surprise scum, but decided it was better to reveal yourself early to discredit an assassin with shoddy reasoning because you don't like how the lynch is going? Mafia are trying hard to stop this lynch. Notice how GMarshal hasn't actually gotten anywhere with his "analysis", and still keeps prominsing to do more "analysis" (which hits a brick wall and never gets anywhere anyway). This is a classic contradiction that reveals your true motives. You pretend like you were trying hard to prevent giving up your role, but gave it up easily under no pressure and with no strong motive, unless of course, you are mafia trying to discredit a lynch on a fellow mafia. On April 15 2011 07:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Reading LSB's recent posts has put me in a bit of a new perspective. If he's scum, I doubt the mafia is all going along with this. Unfortunately Coagulations alignment gives a HUGE amount of information. I think we should lynch Rean or m0nsterchef, someone like that. Have GMarshal check coagulation on night 2 and report the results. This way we can get the "information" without potentially losing a townie. That's my plan : / Also going to take a look at: redFF Please don't get emotional here. This lynch is important. You say that Coagulation's alignment gives a huge amount of information. You also just admit here that you think Coagulation is scum. Then right after that you suggest keeping him alive and letting another obvious mafia "DT check" him? Like I just proved in the previous paragraph, GMarshal has an obviously false DT claim which is loaded with mafia motives. Its pretty obvious now that they are both on the same side. You are flip-flopping too much. I know you're town. Please consider this rationally and don't second guess yourself too much. Mafia know that letting Coagulation die leaves their whole team exposed (like you said, he gives too much information when lynched). The "mafia wouldn't stick out their necks that far to save Coagulation" argument doesn't hold here. Coagulation is Mafia. Therefore he should be lynched. On April 15 2011 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yes, I think he is town aligned. No one is taking his posts seriously, he isn't doing anything to affect the lynch/mislead town, he's essentially just posting jokes. It's hard to read that and I think there are bigger fish to deal with. i.e scum actively trying to mislead lynches/town i.e lsb Scum want you to derail the lynch. Even though I agree that LSB is super scummy, it doesn't change the fact that his goal is to save Coag. There are too many people who haven't voted yet, and we can't afford to have them all come in and derail the lynch. They are unknown variables. We need to stay focused on Coagulation. People, don't sheep the mafia. Mafia is lying their way to town trying to save Coag. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Rean
Netherlands808 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 15 2011 08:56 Rean wrote: LSB is a waste of a lynch. He's on a crusade to get Protactinium lynched when mafia would just leave him to die to the assassins. I think it's pretty clear LSB is scum, but not the red kind, and hence not the kind worth wasting a lynch on. And to get town to waste a vig and to save coagulation and to get the town to waste a lynch overall getting an assassin lynched is a success for mafia especially if he's pressuring one of their teammates. | ||
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