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On November 01 2010 12:25 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 12:21 Pandain wrote:Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/ On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered.
1.There were only two hours left
2. A major factor is that no one can even say if you actually used your role. The person who you claimed to have poked says he received no such thing. Now you defend yourself by saying you could've been roleblocked, or he could've been bussed. The first point is okay, but negated for reasons later expressed below. The second point is just illogical. It is more logical to assume you are mafia than that jcarl just happened to get bussed.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Point is it didn't even happen
Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
Exactly! So why are you running if your role has a high chance of being unimportant. You claim its to soak up POTENTIAL roleblockers, but any townie could run and do just that.
You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points.
Yes, it doesn't make sense for jcarl to lie. You yourself think he hasn't, and yet you critizice me for defending just that. I have considered it, but consider it highly more likely you are just scum.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.'
Why did you lie to us if you knew this could happen.
Why did you continue to claim you could be 100% confirmed
Why would wasting a potential roleblocker's use on one night outweigh having an unconfirmed mayor who's lied.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
You start with "I didn't lie to get elected" and end with "this is a lie designed to benefit town."
You claimed you would be 100% confirmed, now you claim you knew this would not happen.
I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town.
see the quote
STOP Youngminii, I think you're reading selectively. Even if Pandain himself isn't right, his arguments have foundations, including in a very revealing post by Coagulation a couple pages ago, namely one which highlights the lies in DrH's campaign. In that sense, your usage of LAL is suspiciously focused as well.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied
how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
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because roleblockers may or may not exist I'm a horrible liar? lol
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His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x
DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases)
Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke
Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim.
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On November 01 2010 12:33 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim.
Would you like to just go ahead and accuse me of making up the role of sticky altogether?
Don't you think confirming that my role does what it says I does does quite a bit? It confirms the sticky exists and that I am the sticky, it would prove I wasn't lying about my role and my confirmation power.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote:
His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x
DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases)
Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention.
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On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity.Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And againShow nested quote +On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again.
Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth?how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
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On November 01 2010 12:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:33 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim. Would you like to just go ahead and accuse me of making up the role of sticky altogether? Don't you think confirming that my role does what it says I does does quite a bit? It confirms the sticky exists and that I am the sticky, it would prove I wasn't lying about my role and my confirmation power.
Dr.H, I think a more important part of this post is "that what you say your role does = 100% of your role?"
Do I suspect that you are holding any part of your role apart from us? Probably not, you have described your role pretty greatly, and I think any other powers added to it would be OP. However, I do think this is a necessary precaution to think about, and infinitestory is probably wise to do so.
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Damn this has turned into a shitfest.
Can we please stop with all these "what ifs" bullshit?
I guess important thing right now is who I am going to lynch, then I'm sleeping.
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On November 01 2010 12:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 12:33 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim. Would you like to just go ahead and accuse me of making up the role of sticky altogether? Don't you think confirming that my role does what it says I does does quite a bit? It confirms the sticky exists and that I am the sticky, it would prove I wasn't lying about my role and my confirmation power. Dr.H, I think a more important part of this post is "that what you say your role does = 100% of your role?" Do I suspect that you are holding any part of your role apart from us? Probably not, you have described your role pretty greatly, and I think any other powers added to it would be OP. However, I do think this is a necessary precaution to think about, and infinitestory is probably wise to do so.
No, the power of the role is to confirm itself to other players and also to determine if they do or don't have murrayitis. That's all.
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Question: In a traditional game with role-blockers, can they role-block the same player twice in a row? Or are there restrictions on that?
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On November 01 2010 12:40 Nemesis wrote:
Damn this has turned into a shitfest.
Can we please stop with all these "what ifs" bullshit?
I guess important thing right now is who I am going to lynch, then I'm sleeping.
Aeres, kgo.
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On November 01 2010 12:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Question: In a traditional game with role-blockers, can they role-block the same player twice in a row? Or are there restrictions on that?
In traditional games, they can not roleblock the same player twice in a row. This is in no way a promise for this game or acknowledge the existence of any at all.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 12:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Question: In a traditional game with role-blockers, can they role-block the same player twice in a row? Or are there restrictions on that?
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roleblocker
doesn't say anything about restrictions on the usage
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On November 01 2010 12:36 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote:
His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x
DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases)
Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it. I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention.
That's not the point. There's no way of finding out whether or not our Mayor is a blue or a red as of now. The arguments that Pandain is putting up are ridiculous and stretched way too far, if you honestly keep up with your persistent following of this idiocy (I'm talking about his arguments, not Pandain himself) then I'm going to have to label you as scum following a blind argument aimed at taking down a blue mayor.
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On November 01 2010 12:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Question: In a traditional game with role-blockers, can they role-block the same player twice in a row? Or are there restrictions on that? In traditional games, they can not roleblock the same player twice in a row. This is in no way a promise for this game or acknowledge the existence of any at all.
Which is why I said "in a traditional game" =P
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On November 01 2010 12:38 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity.Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And againAgain I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again.
Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you cute addition ;o you're so snarkyanyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth?I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not.how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
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On November 01 2010 12:45 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:36 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote:
His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x
DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases)
Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it. I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention. That's not the point. There's no way of finding out whether or not our Mayor is a blue or a red as of now. The arguments that Pandain is putting up are ridiculous and stretched way too far, if you honestly keep up with your persistent following of this idiocy (I'm talking about his arguments, not Pandain himself) then I'm going to have to label you as scum following a blind argument aimed at taking down a blue mayor.
How 'bout instead of saying my arguments are ridic and that's it, you actually say why. Cause right now I can just look above, see "Aeres, kgo" and find an example of just one of many blind arguments you yourself have been making. And technically you can never find out someone's alignment FOR SURE until they are dead. That's not a counter argument to mine.
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Yeah I'm not getting anything from what's happening right now. I'm putting my vote on Aeres the taking a break from mafia for the night...
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On November 01 2010 12:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:38 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity.Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And againAgain I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again.
Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you cute addition ;o you're so snarkyanyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth?I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not.how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
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EPT
