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On November 01 2010 11:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:That's assuming it was even a roleblock. In this game there are a lot of speculative scenarios we can get into in which things might not work. I did later let the idea of "100% confirmation" fall through as it became increasingly apparent I may not even be able to trust Artanis. If it is a roleblock then the mafia have to make the choice to either keep roleblocking me so they can keep making me look suspicious or to use it on someone else now that I've informed them that I anticipated this play. By the time we had the first suscipcions the mods could be lying you had already secured the election. There were two hours left. Furthormore, I don't understand how this "insanity" would prevent you from doing a poke. How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect. But yet even in two hours you make this post:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%. Here you admit your role is most important in the ability to confirm yourself. This is after it was revealed there was a chance the mods are deceiving us. And yet you have admitted you are a prime contender for a roleblocker, but keep on going. Things do not add upWhy would I take back what I said? All I said is that jcarls could have lied and that it is much easier for him to lie. I've brought a lot of attention on myself and said a lot about my role, these are things jcarls hasn't done. Your defense of him is getting more irrational. I will not take back my claim because all I claimed is that he could have lied and that is would be a very easy play for him to make. That would make it more likely a lie on his end than a lie on my end but I believe it is likely a lie on NEITHER of our ends and is merely a roleblock. That is a point i emphasized many times yet you're still saying I accused him of being mafia. I asked him a question, brought up the possibility that he lied, but I didn't accuse him of being a liar or a mafia. You're putting words in my mouth and it is very very obvious Pandain. A tribute to your so-called "transparency". It's a lie to say I'm fervently defending jcarl. What I'm doing is pointing out that your theory does not make sense. And so you bring this up, but don't think he's mafia? So why would you bring it up, since it could only bring suscipcion upon him. It's because your trying to find your way out of this mess."For all I know you could or couldn't be". Ok that's a tautology isn't it? You're over rating me as a mafia player and then saying my actions are anti town. But lets not say how they're anti-town right? Is it anti-town to soak up roleblocks to help other roles? Is it anti-town because as far as I know I have the best chance of confirming my role to another player with my night action? It is anti town to lie to get elected, to claim your role is important and that is why you must get elected, and then admit there's possiblities you can't confirm yourself. It is anti town to make grasps at logic and far fetched theories. It is anti town because if you were town and you know/knew a roleblocker would ruin your "confirmation" you wouldn't have lied and said otherwise, and if you were mafia it makes perfect sense.Your attack is what if well maybe and it could. I explained all of my actions. I explained why I didn't talk about the possiblity of roleclaiming. I explained why I later ditched the "100%" thing. I've explained why I've done and said everything I've said. To say that I'm mafia becaue I'm not 100% town isn't a good argument.
You didn't ditch the 100% thing, you've defended yourself using the "what if's, it could, and perhaps".
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Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do...
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On November 01 2010 11:56 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 11:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 01 2010 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 11:45 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct? In essence, yes. That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did. Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia. However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard. By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you. Oh that is something I wanted to ask you. Did you know the identity of Annul (your bodyguard) before he was killed? Nope. And I can confirm that. Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 10:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 31 2010 10:28 infinitestory wrote:
Will the bodyguard be PM'd and informed that he is the bodyguard? Is that going to be added to his role, or will bodyguarding replace his original role? He will be informed of being a Bodyguard. This will not replace his original role. The mayor is not informed of who he is.
And i can confirm this!
On October 31 2010 Glasse wrote:
Meow
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Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia.
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On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote:
Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia.
actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that."
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On November 01 2010 11:57 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do...
Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote:
Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
That was Kingjames01, many many pages ago
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid  if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
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I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
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On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
so there was only 1 bodyguard...
drh is vulnerable then
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United States4053 Posts
On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
What about Radio LOONY?
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On November 01 2010 11:56 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 11:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 01 2010 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 11:45 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct? In essence, yes. That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did. Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia. However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard. By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you. Oh that is something I wanted to ask you. Did you know the identity of Annul (your bodyguard) before he was killed? Nope. And I can confirm that. Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 10:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 31 2010 10:28 infinitestory wrote:
Will the bodyguard be PM'd and informed that he is the bodyguard? Is that going to be added to his role, or will bodyguarding replace his original role? He will be informed of being a Bodyguard. This will not replace his original role. The mayor is not informed of who he is.
Thanks, I thought a mod said it, but I didn't want to be mistaken and then misquoted.
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On November 01 2010 11:59 Aeres wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:57 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do... Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive.
EBWOP: I didn't expect to survive the game. I merely wanted to contribute to the survival of the town, and with the role I possess, I had my one vote, or some kind of master plan, to make a difference with. I don't mind taking one for the team if I help the team with my demise, but it didn't really work out. = /
And with that, I'm off to bed.
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On November 01 2010 12:02 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia. What about Radio LOONY?
Broadcaster by a player within the game. My plan was to make that more clear though LSB posted it a little early.
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On November 01 2010 11:56 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:That's assuming it was even a roleblock. In this game there are a lot of speculative scenarios we can get into in which things might not work. I did later let the idea of "100% confirmation" fall through as it became increasingly apparent I may not even be able to trust Artanis. If it is a roleblock then the mafia have to make the choice to either keep roleblocking me so they can keep making me look suspicious or to use it on someone else now that I've informed them that I anticipated this play. By the time we had the first suscipcions the mods could be lying you had already secured the election. There were two hours left. Furthormore, I don't understand how this "insanity" would prevent you from doing a poke. How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect. But yet even in two hours you make this post:On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%. Here you admit your role is most important in the ability to confirm yourself. This is after it was revealed there was a chance the mods are deceiving us. And yet you have admitted you are a prime contender for a roleblocker, but keep on going. Things do not add upWhy would I take back what I said? All I said is that jcarls could have lied and that it is much easier for him to lie. I've brought a lot of attention on myself and said a lot about my role, these are things jcarls hasn't done. Your defense of him is getting more irrational. I will not take back my claim because all I claimed is that he could have lied and that is would be a very easy play for him to make. That would make it more likely a lie on his end than a lie on my end but I believe it is likely a lie on NEITHER of our ends and is merely a roleblock. That is a point i emphasized many times yet you're still saying I accused him of being mafia. I asked him a question, brought up the possibility that he lied, but I didn't accuse him of being a liar or a mafia. You're putting words in my mouth and it is very very obvious Pandain. A tribute to your so-called "transparency". It's a lie to say I'm fervently defending jcarl. What I'm doing is pointing out that your theory does not make sense. And so you bring this up, but don't think he's mafia? So why would you bring it up, since it could only bring suscipcion upon him. It's because your trying to find your way out of this mess."For all I know you could or couldn't be". Ok that's a tautology isn't it? You're over rating me as a mafia player and then saying my actions are anti town. But lets not say how they're anti-town right? Is it anti-town to soak up roleblocks to help other roles? Is it anti-town because as far as I know I have the best chance of confirming my role to another player with my night action? It is anti town to lie to get elected, to claim your role is important and that is why you must get elected, and then admit there's possiblities you can't confirm yourself. It is anti town to make grasps at logic and far fetched theories. It is anti town because if you were town and you know/knew a roleblocker would ruin your "confirmation" you wouldn't have lied and said otherwise, and if you were mafia it makes perfect sense.Your attack is what if well maybe and it could. I explained all of my actions. I explained why I didn't talk about the possiblity of roleclaiming. I explained why I later ditched the "100%" thing. I've explained why I've done and said everything I've said. To say that I'm mafia becaue I'm not 100% town isn't a good argument. You didn't ditch the 100% thing, you've defended yourself using the "what if's, it could, and perhaps".
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town.
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On November 01 2010 11:59 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote:
Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia. actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that."
lol what a weak brush off of my analysis posts
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On November 01 2010 12:02 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia. What about Radio LOONY?
Fairly ceretain that is a message mafia is allowed to convey. It has been done in other games. To debate on what the words mean just leads to WIFOM, but observing the way they are delivered on the other hand...
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On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
Does this count for our roles as well? Orgoloves role had misinformation in it, I assume this could apply to any of us.
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On November 01 2010 12:01 Glasse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia. so there was only 1 bodyguard... drh is vulnerable then
Well, as bumalarge pointed out, Artanis didn't outright say there was only 1 bodygaurd. He said that town could only afford 1 bodygaurd. That doesn't mean that there isn't someone that isn't hired doing the job.
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On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:59 Pandain wrote:On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote:
Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia. actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that." lol what a weak brush off of my analysis posts
your right, you put effort into it.
He hasn't made any real conclusions, better gets across what I'm trying to say.
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On November 01 2010 12:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia. Does this count for our roles as well? Orgoloves role had misinformation in it, I assume this could apply to any of us.
This was purely psychological. Also, the role PM's are not the only PM's some players get.
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EPT
