EPTWorld at War Mafia - Page 9
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:47 Zona wrote: No chain nuking. There might be a third party who wins by annihilating the world by radiation, so everyone launching revenge strikes might lead to them winning. One or two revenge nukes at most. I do think a no-nukes idea is good for the most part, but later in the game the town can use them as daytime vigilante hits if we really fall behind by mislynching, so I wouldn't rule it out completely. Stop bringing past games into this. Your grudge against BM last game hit town and didn't meaningfully advance that game towards town victory (the overwhelming setup advantage did, though). If you think someone is terrible, convince the entire group of players to ignore him, rather than waste a lynch, especially a day 1 lynch which should provide information otherwise. The biggest reason is that if everyone piled on some target you proposed, we will have no differentiating votes to examine later on. And then we go to day 2 without that much more information than day 1. 1)Nah. Fucking chain nuke the guy. If you set up a deterrent as concrete as possible its less likely that all actors attempt to move in a manner which will result in them losing. As it stands, your assumption that only a few people fire back essentially allows people to nuke tactically if they have anti-nuke capabilities or if they're part of mafia and know that their gambit will pay off for their team. 2) K, then propose someone. My hit on BM was clearing the abenson list, the list that was so chock full of mafia that they quit when they couldn't stop me from enacting the plan. Allowing people that I think are bad to be ignored is a PERFECT method for mafia players to avoid suspicion. If you impute that an illogical player should be ignored because you think he's illogical, then you're hoping for dear god that he's not mafia. More importantly, I'm not saying string him up on day 2-3. This is the day 1 lynch. The day when the town has zero information. Taking our historically least likely to hit lynch and taking away a town liability now rather than when more information is on the table is a perfectly prudent course of action. I'm not saying 100% of people should vote for abenson, either. When has that ever happened on a day 1 vote? | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 23 2010 15:15 L wrote: If you set up a deterrent as concrete as possible its less likely that all actors attempt to move in a manner which will result in them losing. As it stands, your assumption that only a few people fire back essentially allows people to nuke tactically if they have anti-nuke capabilities or if they're part of mafia and know that their gambit will pay off for their team. Well if they use their anti-nuke, we throw more nukes their way. Given the setup I would expect that there be a third party that wins when radiation gets too high, which is why I'm against everyone retaliating. That third party could initiate a nuke to attempt precisely to induce everyone else to nuke back. But at least so far the consensus plan is for all town members to NOT NUKE. And if anyone does start nuking, some sort of town revenge nuking will take place. Fair enough on the point of having to propose someone for the day 1 lynch. But we better not end up with a situation where every person votes for the same lynch target. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I just wanted to make you a green name... Okay but yeah guys good luck dudes. This ought to be bombastic. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On March 23 2010 13:39 L wrote: Hey; Better idea. Don't fucking nuke anyone at all because we might lose to radiation. First person to nuke gets chain nuked by everyone else. I call this strategy M.A.D. for Mutually Assured Destruction. Sound awesome? I know it does. Now for day 1 lynch: Kill abenson. Kid's terribad and not worth keeping alive. Aye....I will make certain to fire many nukes in the interest of assuring mutual destruction if things do not go properly. First step of these talks shall be a statement of bargaining. L, if you bus someone for something for a previous game, I can assure you destruction. Abenson has done nothing improper yet in this game and hasn't even had the opportunity to post. I feel he at least deserves the opportunity to prove he can be a better player. We should first discuss a plan of action. Ace was pretty smart by not telling us what countries were included in this game, otherwise we could of simply called out our countries (not including our arsenals), and seen if the country we had mattered. I'll assume countries with anti-nukes are like day time paramedics. I'm curious if their are ones that protect against night actions. While Zona has a decent plan to deter nuking, it involves a lot of secondary nuking. (One nuke = Two more nukes being fired as retaliation). Then his suggestion of a third party scares me into believing he himself is a third party. Seriously, one retaliatory nuke should be enough. We have no idea how many nukes can actually be fired before we wind up fucked from radiation. Until we hear from every person I don't think we should decide on a lynch candidate. We have 2 days to find a target, let's use them. Everyone post an overall strategy, don't just cosign someone elses. I support L's M.A.D. only because I will not let someone bully me, or force a band wagon when half a day hasn't even went by yet. Be wary of following L too hard. I don't support holding grudges like that. Also, Abenson, remember this: I'm only defending for now because you haven't posted. If you continue with your habitual one liners, I may be forced to side with L and support some corrective actions. Don't take this lightly. L is rather amazing at creating band wagons, but I see people have become atleast mildly fed up with his strong grudge holding. We also have no need to day lynch, remember this. We can start shit and throw suspicion as much as possible. Ace said we need a majority of players, and once he notices, the days over. No changing your vote after that. Day cycle ends. This can hurt us severely. Everyone must be active or else we will be thoroughly fucked. Keep yourselves read up on the thread at the least, don't miss anything. If you see a bandwagon, hesitate. Don't just jump on it because you might just wind up ending the day and regret it later. Good Luck. Let's try and play nice. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
[QUOTE]On March 23 2010 15:15 L wrote: Fair enough on the point of having to propose someone for the day 1 lynch. But we better not end up with a situation where every person votes for the same lynch target. [/QUOTE] No one is going to vote for anyone until everyone is given the appropriate time to speak in their own defense. And L said 100% Considering all we need is 54%, 12 players, to vote for a lynch to pass that isn't something we have to worry about. We will atleast give everyone a chance to speak. And I'm by no means the best at behavioral analysis, but you and L both should of realized that only 12 of 22 have to vote for a lynch to pass. Sure that shouldn't happen. But everyone needs to speak. We don't need to just bus someone this fast. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
This comes to the main point - usage of nukes/retaliation. I agree with L partially that maybe 2 nukes is a bit too little, but I don't agree with him that everybody should just counter-nuke due to a possible third party win condition. Unless of course by L saying "everybody chain nukes" he means a lot of people nuke rather than "everybody chain nukes." On March 23 2010 16:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: While Zona has a decent plan to deter nuking, it involves a lot of secondary nuking. (One nuke = Two more nukes being fired as retaliation). Then his suggestion of a third party scares me into believing he himself is a third party. Seriously, one retaliatory nuke should be enough. We have no idea how many nukes can actually be fired before we wind up fucked from radiation. I believe one counter-nuke definitely is not enough. If this was the case, we'd just leave it up to the person who has the nuke called on him to retaliate or have some person claim that he’d counter-nuke and not have any nukes at all. I don’t think this is such a sound plan. Until we hear from every person I don't think we should decide on a lynch candidate. We have 2 days to find a target, let's use them. Everyone post an overall strategy, don't just cosign someone elses. I support L's M.A.D. only because I will not let someone bully me, or force a band wagon when half a day hasn't even went by yet. Nobody is deciding on a lynch candidate just yet. L is simply throwing an option out there. His reasoning may be off in some people’s viewpoints, but the option is out there which is what’s important. Surely we’re not going to sit here for 48 hours discussing what everybody’s opinions on how our nukes should be used. L isn’t proposing we all agree with him and lynch Abenson which is why he hasn’t actually given a vote. Whether L proposed Abenson, Zona, or anybody else doesn’t matter: the important thing is that extra discussion happens which will give us more tells about the players. We also have no need to day lynch, remember this. We can start shit and throw suspicion as much as possible. Ace said we need a majority of players, and once he notices, the days over. No one is going to vote for anyone until everyone is given the appropriate time to speak in their own defense. And L said 100% Considering all we need is 54%, 12 players, to vote for a lynch to pass that isn't something we have to worry about. This shows why we shouldn’t sit on a day 1 lynch. Yeah, bandwagons shouldn’t happen and with the majority rule, it is imperative that people do in fact think for themselves. However, because we act on a majority rule, nobody is obligated to vote past the majority. Because of that, vote lists are a bit restricted if we don’t make full use of them now when everybody is equally suspect. Although it’s a bit counter-intuitive because we don’t want people to die, we need people to die to get information early on. Until we hear from every person I don't think we should decide on a lynch candidate. We have 2 days to find a target, let's use them. Everyone post an overall strategy, don't just cosign someone elses. I support L's M.A.D. only because I will not let someone bully me, or force a band wagon when half a day hasn't even went by yet. That being said, I’m putting you out there for a day 1 lynch. This is because you've been in contradiction of what you said earlier about Zona thinking two nukes is too much. L’s deterrence offers that *everybody* nukes the initiator while Zona’s is on almost the opposite end: two is just fine. His plan also has nothing to do with the fact that people are “bullied” or “bandwagoning” either – you said yourself that one nuke should be enough, so why do you care if you are “bullied” by someone? The only thing that person can do during the day is nuke you which you can just retaliate back with “one retaliatory nuke” that “should be enough” according to what you have said. On top of that, you even say that you'll fire as many nukes in retaliation as possible if things do not go as planned. To whose plan? Surely not the town's as "we have no idea how many nukes can actually be fired before we wind up fucked from radiation" according to you. You may be a bit annoyed about how L acted last game, but that should have no bearing on this game. I just don’t see the logic in supporting L’s deterrence plan when proposing the opposite earlier, and when the logic has no link to L’s deterrence plan at all. His deterrence strategy doesn’t have anything to do with people getting pushed around, acting like sheep, or bandwagoning at all – it’s just a countermeasure to people having random nukes launched on them. Consider your stance a bit more. Anyway, going to write a paper. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
It seems honorable. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
 It is my opinion that launching only one retaliatory nuke against the player who nukes without permission is terrible idea. If the player has nuke capabilities, it is highly likely that he will also have some anti-missile defense to protect themselves with. I agree with launching two retaliatory nukes- this should be good enough to punish the player and keep # of nuke detonated in reasonable levels. Also, we can also consider launching Nuke 2 thirty minutes after Nuke 1 if too many nuke has been detonated already, and have someone intercept the second nuke if the first nuke succeeds in its role. This should be useful in late game where we don't want to go over ToD (assuming notable number of nukes had landed). As for the first lynch, waiting sounds good enough. It should force Mafia into activity, and active Mafia generally seemed to be easier target to find than lurking Mafia. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
L's idea is bad because a) it wastes nukes, b) radiation level gets way too high, c) there will be at least 1-2 people who don't participate probably. i think that was already addressed though | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On March 23 2010 21:00 Ace wrote: I'm looking for temp replacements for L while he's banned. If anyone viewing the game wants to come forward and volunteer please send me a PM about it. If this doesn't happen can we just kill him anyway and steal any potential nukes? I'm saddened by another game not getting ruined by the master | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
And yes L is still able to be killed even if I dont find a replacement. He's pretty much still fair game, guess you guys can consider him a lurker ^_^ If someone has nukes when they die the nukes somehow disappear, kind of like Iraq irl. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On March 23 2010 22:54 Ace wrote: 2 months? o.0 And yes L is still able to be killed even if I dont find a replacement. He's pretty much still fair game, guess you guys can consider him a lurker ^_^ If someone has nukes when they die the nukes somehow disappear, kind of like Iraq irl. On March 23 2010 13:12 Ace wrote: Votes With 22 players, it's 12 to lynch! Deadline is Thursday, May 25th 12:00AM ET ^^ All this bio-chemical warfare. We should go for the ez kill then and go for L if he's going to be inactive anyway. Any other target would be foolish at this point, unless someone thinks there's any reason to suspect anyone else. ##vote L | ||
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