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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.
Fair warning to all. |
On October 06 2012 11:04 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:00 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:57 Slaughter wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2. They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Korean pros in BW had huge followings and fan bases outside of Korea so I don't think that is right at all. Oh, you mean the 2000 hardcore koreaboos on TL? In all seriousness, there's a few koreans with a distinct personality that appeal to foreigners (ie. MC) but the vast majority of koreans just isn't very appealing to most foreigners that aren't hardcore followers of the korean scene. I can't speak to the SC2 scene as I never followed it but in BW, yea they had a lot of appeal. I myself was a HUGE Yellow fan and the only time I gave any shits about SC2 was when he briefly played SC2. Now he coaches Xenics Storm LoL team so I support them XD
My point is that if you followed korean BW, you are a very hardcore fan. Most people aren't hardcore enough to identify with koreans.
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On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win.
NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL.
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On October 06 2012 11:05 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:03 Killcani wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:
[quote]
Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far).
This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2. They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Why is it so bad to have region only tournaments?? We need tournaments where NA/EU/KR can both compete and have a reasonable chance of winning something otherwise the scene that's winning will only get stronger while the others get weaker. I was talking about MLG. An NA only MLG would have an absolutely laughable level of competition, nobody would watch that
Well its really boring that koreans are so much better than all the NA players.
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On October 06 2012 10:57 1ntrigue wrote:
Predictions for tomorrow:
2 WE : CLG.eu 1
2 M5 : TPA 0
2 Frost : WE 1
Hoping for a WE domination but they meet Frost too early IMO and aren't versatile enough against such prepared opposition.
Semi finals not too early in anyway, especially with m5 on the other side, people are used to the long MLG weekends I guess, and they can't tell that today were the quarterfinals, and tomorrow are the semifinals.
also WE changed more than half their roster because of CLG.eu beating them on Asian ground, so imo CLG.eu has the better chance of getting through.
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On October 06 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:05 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 11:03 Killcani wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2. They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Why is it so bad to have region only tournaments?? We need tournaments where NA/EU/KR can both compete and have a reasonable chance of winning something otherwise the scene that's winning will only get stronger while the others get weaker. I was talking about MLG. An NA only MLG would have an absolutely laughable level of competition, nobody would watch that Why wouldn't they? All the NA teams have large fan bases so of course they would come out to support/watch them. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:06 AUGcodon wrote:
I am pretty sure anyone posting on TL counts as a hardcore gamer to be honest. I am pretty much as casual as you can get. I only play LoL and only sparingly 
Yea but I bet you know more details about pretty much every pro team than the average person who play league. For one thing I bet you don't believe in ELO Hello 
Anyways, Imma gonna bandwagon TPA and hope they pull off a victory.
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On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win.
Hey, they did get a win, since CLG.NA beat SK in groups yesterday.
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I'm not expecting TPA to survive against M5, but again, they did beat Najin
I'm rooting for CLG.eu, I believe they can make it through WE. But against frost, I think it will be a toss. TSM gave them a decent fight. I expect CLG.eu to be better than TSM, so they might be able to win.
I never followed BW
I followed SC2 when it all started. I stopped following it because :
a) I don't really enjoy the game anymore
b) I don't relate to the pro scene.
For LOL, for some reasons, I cheer for the CLG teams (NA and EU). I think if they stop being competitve, I will either find another team, or just stop caring. I also don't really play LOL (a few games here and then)
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On October 06 2012 11:11 AUGcodon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote:On October 06 2012 11:05 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 11:03 Killcani wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:
[quote]
Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2.
They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone
NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Why is it so bad to have region only tournaments?? We need tournaments where NA/EU/KR can both compete and have a reasonable chance of winning something otherwise the scene that's winning will only get stronger while the others get weaker. I was talking about MLG. An NA only MLG would have an absolutely laughable level of competition, nobody would watch that Why wouldn't they? All the NA teams have large fan bases so of course they would come out to support/watch them. On October 06 2012 11:06 AUGcodon wrote:
I am pretty sure anyone posting on TL counts as a hardcore gamer to be honest. I am pretty much as casual as you can get. I only play LoL and only sparingly Yea but I bet you know more details about pretty much every pro team than the average person who play league.
I probably know more about the league of legends scene than the average player just from reading the TL news post.
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On October 06 2012 11:11 AUGcodon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote:On October 06 2012 11:05 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 11:03 Killcani wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:
[quote]
Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2.
They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone
NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Why is it so bad to have region only tournaments?? We need tournaments where NA/EU/KR can both compete and have a reasonable chance of winning something otherwise the scene that's winning will only get stronger while the others get weaker. I was talking about MLG. An NA only MLG would have an absolutely laughable level of competition, nobody would watch that Why wouldn't they? All the NA teams have large fan bases so of course they would come out to support/watch them. On October 06 2012 11:06 AUGcodon wrote:
I am pretty sure anyone posting on TL counts as a hardcore gamer to be honest. I am pretty much as casual as you can get. I only play LoL and only sparingly Yea but I bet you know more details about pretty much every pro team than the average person who play league. For one thing I bet you don't believe in ELO Hello Anyways, Imma gonna bandwagon TPA and hope they pull off a victory.
Depends how you define hardcore. But yea, I probably spend more time watching than playing
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Baa?21248 Posts
On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win. NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL.
do you always talk about stuff you have zero idea about lol first dota now lol
you havent even seen WE play
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On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game.
One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool).
Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2012 11:09 elementz wrote:
also WE changed more than half their roster because of CLG.eu beating them on Asian ground, so imo CLG.eu has the better chance of getting through.
They didn't change more than half their roster, lol. Just jungler and support.
Though realistically I think they could replace Caomei if there were actually good top laners in China.
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On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub.
I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore.
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On October 06 2012 11:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:09 elementz wrote:
also WE changed more than half their roster because of CLG.eu beating them on Asian ground, so imo CLG.eu has the better chance of getting through. They didn't change more than half their roster, lol. Just jungler and support. Though realistically I think they could replace Caomei if there were actually good top laners in China.
ohh I thought they replaced 3/5, well 2/5 is still a lot, and the later is still true, they change because of the loss to CLG.eu
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On October 06 2012 11:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:09 elementz wrote:
also WE changed more than half their roster because of CLG.eu beating them on Asian ground, so imo CLG.eu has the better chance of getting through. They didn't change more than half their roster, lol. Just jungler and support. Though realistically I think they could replace Caomei if there were actually good top laners in China.
The roster change has worked out tho, they 3-0'd iG the last time they met and "beat" CLG.eu in a showmatch (or rather threw marginally less in)
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On October 06 2012 11:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:00 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:57 Slaughter wrote:On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2. They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Korean pros in BW had huge followings and fan bases outside of Korea so I don't think that is right at all. Oh, you mean the 2000 hardcore koreaboos on TL? In all seriousness, there's a few koreans with a distinct personality that appeal to foreigners (ie. MC) but the vast majority of koreans just isn't very appealing to most foreigners that aren't hardcore followers of the korean scene. Have you ever been to an MLG? I didn't get that impression personally.
MLG 05/06/07 Halo 2 is whats up.
I miss the old FPS days everything was so simple 
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Hahahaha damn TSM got stomped...
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On October 06 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub. I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore.
I was mostly aiming that towards the later half of the scenes, mne.ferus crs orb etc, or alternate/fnatic/mouz etc in eu. Plus the salaries are not really enough from the teams as is so this guys have to stream the soloQ, and the sejuani games in order to pay the bills (scarra was saying how expensive LA is), so the double dip will help them stop streaming as much.
Also some of these teams need to change what they blame for their loses, for example like Freak said yesterday, CLG.eu will blame themselves and see what they could have done different...CLG.na is playing the coin toss...
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On October 06 2012 11:34 elementz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub. I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore. I was mostly aiming that towards the later half of the scenes, mne.ferus crs orb etc, or alternate/fnatic/mouz etc in eu. Plus the salaries are not really enough from the teams as is so this guys have to stream the soloQ, and the sejuani games in order to pay the bills (scarra was saying how expensive LA is), so the double dip will help them stop streaming as much. Also some of these teams need to change what they blame for their loses, for example like Freak said yesterday, CLG.eu will blame themselves and see what they could have done different...CLG.na is playing the coin toss...
The Sejuani games were not streamed as far as I know.
The point is, the NA teams (at least some of them) have the financial means to sustain themselves, but the environment which they have do not cater great teams.
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EPT
