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[S2] World Championships Discussion - Page 359

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.

Fair warning to all.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 06 2012 03:50 GMT
#7161
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.
Freeeeeeedom
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
October 06 2012 03:55 GMT
#7162
On October 06 2012 12:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Canada and NZ are part of NA... wtf

If this was meant to be a question, then yeah, when i was in nz i played on NA rather than SEA. I dunno what the ping to sea servers wouldve been, but 160-180 to usa wasnt too bad. until i moved to san diego... and started playing with 12 ping.
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
October 06 2012 04:10 GMT
#7163
On October 06 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:31 theBizness wrote:
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.

I don't agree with that. In real sports, countries that are weaker at a given sport (e.g. Soccer/Football) can have perfectly acceptable local competition grow up, without international competition from "better" countries interfering. Same deal here.


But they aren't considered part of the big leagues. Generally these countries have their own lesser leagues and competitions. Regions can have their own smaller circuits but the main circuit should host the best teams.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
October 06 2012 04:10 GMT
#7164
Did i reall say Canada.. I meant Australia. I know CA is apart of NA. God I'm tired.

Regardless of what server you play on Australia and NZ are definitely not considered NA
XenOmega
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2822 Posts
October 06 2012 04:14 GMT
#7165
On October 06 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:31 theBizness wrote:
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.

I don't agree with that. In real sports, countries that are weaker at a given sport (e.g. Soccer/Football) can have perfectly acceptable local competition grow up, without international competition from "better" countries interfering. Same deal here.



This this this.

Sure, we want the best of the best to be part of the competition, from a neutral point of view. But where's the fun in seeing only Asian (for example ; I know that M5 and some other teams can compete at high level)?

Take Hockey for example. For a long time, Canada was considered the best hockey country (along US, Russia). Does that mean that every country has to stop playing it because of that? No! Because today, many countries improved, and are able to produce exceptional player. Killing local competition by allowing only the best to compete is great for the show (you get the best games), but its not great if you want to develop the sport (in our case, LoL). In fact, I'm going to say this : Riot has interests in making sure NA remain relevant. Want it or not, some people relate to people from their country.
Also, if Riot doesn't want to suffer the fate of BW, they must support competition in every region.
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
October 06 2012 04:16 GMT
#7166
On October 06 2012 12:50 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.


Where can I sign up for this 95% chance of making 70k?
Zero fighting.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
October 06 2012 04:16 GMT
#7167
On October 06 2012 13:10 theBizness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:31 theBizness wrote:
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.

I don't agree with that. In real sports, countries that are weaker at a given sport (e.g. Soccer/Football) can have perfectly acceptable local competition grow up, without international competition from "better" countries interfering. Same deal here.


But they aren't considered part of the big leagues. Generally these countries have their own lesser leagues and competitions. Regions can have their own smaller circuits but the main circuit should host the best teams.

MLG and IPL would easily be capable of surviving just hosting a big portion of their tournaments to NA/EU. The mass following of LoL wouldn't end up like sc2 demanding Koreans.

The world championship well its obvious you need everyone.
elementz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States281 Posts
October 06 2012 04:24 GMT
#7168
On October 06 2012 13:16 Jaksiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:50 cLutZ wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.


Where can I sign up for this 95% chance of making 70k?

Agreed the 70k from 4 year is a bit much, mostly 50k, but still a better chance, the reason why S3 is a good thing, the gamble is a lot lesser, and the money is somewhat there, bringing the competitive teams to 8 from 2/3 per region will be cool.
this mah s#$%$
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 06 2012 04:24 GMT
#7169
Okay and brazillians had to play on NA before they had their own server, even though Brazil is clearly not in NA. Your point....? If enough people play to justify riot sinking money into AU/NZ servers than good for them. Until they then need to play on another server, and would count towards that server's region if they formed a strong team. Heck, if AU/NZ formed a strong enough team to give them exposure, causing riot to add au/nz as another reason, more power to them as that would only add more competition for LoL esports. I'm waiting to see brazilians form strong teams, but necrosed often complains how bad all brazilians are on the br server lol.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 04:25:47
October 06 2012 04:25 GMT
#7170
On October 06 2012 13:14 XenOmega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:39 TheYango wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:31 theBizness wrote:
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.

I don't agree with that. In real sports, countries that are weaker at a given sport (e.g. Soccer/Football) can have perfectly acceptable local competition grow up, without international competition from "better" countries interfering. Same deal here.



This this this.

Sure, we want the best of the best to be part of the competition, from a neutral point of view. But where's the fun in seeing only Asian (for example ; I know that M5 and some other teams can compete at high level)?

Take Hockey for example. For a long time, Canada was considered the best hockey country (along US, Russia). Does that mean that every country has to stop playing it because of that? No! Because today, many countries improved, and are able to produce exceptional player. Killing local competition by allowing only the best to compete is great for the show (you get the best games), but its not great if you want to develop the sport (in our case, LoL). In fact, I'm going to say this : Riot has interests in making sure NA remain relevant. Want it or not, some people relate to people from their country.
Also, if Riot doesn't want to suffer the fate of BW, they must support competition in every region.

I support any and all hockey analogies. earlier today i cross-checked an Akali, but since there was no ref present i did the honorable thing and put myself on the penalty fountain. 5 minute major, cuz she died.

my teammates had no appreciation for sportsmanship.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
October 06 2012 04:25 GMT
#7171
So reading bans/picks without reading results, am I the only one surprised at the amount of Eve/Lux/MF picks?

Damn I really need to check these games out :/
Forever Young
parazice
Profile Joined March 2011
Thailand5517 Posts
October 06 2012 04:27 GMT
#7172
On October 06 2012 12:03 1ntrigue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:
On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win.


NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL.

What the hell? You're underrating China massively in LoL. China is definitely not as dominant in LoL as they are in DotA (probably because of the casual gamer culture around LoL in China compared to Korea and Chinese DotA) but they are way above NA. China is definitely above NA and is likely above EU in LoL overall. M5 and CLG.eu are extremely, extremely good EU teams - statistical outliers perhaps.

Anyway, I personally count Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as being part of the Chinese scene in the same way that NA (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), EU, SEA all lumps several culturally similar countries together.

Each of the current top Chinese teams have problems with their playstyle though. WE lacks a cohesive game plan and probably needs a jungle shotcaller, but has arguably the two best carry players in the world and the best teamfight execution in the world. iG has always been kinda funky and lacking a bread and butter playstyle, but they are extremely versatile. TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have. Currently, Frost and Blaze play like machines and their preparation is BW-esque, and no team outside Korea can compete with that in an extended series.


it's Azarkon -"-
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 06 2012 04:40 GMT
#7173
On October 06 2012 12:50 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.


What jobs make 70k/year out of college? In the south it's 30k/year usually. In the north it's generally closer to 50k/year at start. Even cops in the north who make ridiculous salaries (average patrolman in my old town made 100k/year, chiefs made 150k) only start out at 30k as a basic patrolman for their first couple of years on the force.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 05:01:44
October 06 2012 05:01 GMT
#7174
On October 06 2012 13:40 BlackPaladin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:50 cLutZ wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.


What jobs make 70k/year out of college? In the south it's 30k/year usually. In the north it's generally closer to 50k/year at start. Even cops in the north who make ridiculous salaries (average patrolman in my old town made 100k/year, chiefs made 150k) only start out at 30k as a basic patrolman for their first couple of years on the force.


Finance, consulting, tech.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Leeto
Profile Joined August 2007
United States1320 Posts
October 06 2012 05:08 GMT
#7175
I really really would like to see Deman+Jatt commentate the grand finals.. probably not gonna happen though.
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 05:29:11
October 06 2012 05:15 GMT
#7176
Well, I was sort of surprised how that went, and also sort of not. I mean, thus far the tournament has confirmed that TSM is clearly the best NA team but also that they're still a bit behind the top Korean teams. Its a shame these two had to face off so early. I feel there's 3 or 4 teams in the Ro8 that TSM could've taken games off of and/or beaten, but Frost just so good!

Chaox and Regi had really good games. Dyrus was pretty bad in game 1, pushing to tower (fine) but staying one wave too long without ward coverage. After that, it was a clear snowball against him. I also thought TOO did a poor job on Shyvanna; I mean, he was behind on CS and losing buffs to a Maokai. He camped top and bottom way too much that game given the relatively weak ganking power of Shyvanna. I guess he was trying for a countergank, but it never worked out. Frankly, I just don't think his mentality is right for Shyvanna.

Regi did a great job, though his call to engage on Vlad in game two was the turning point of the match. Funniest play was when Xpecial grabbed Taric in game two while Irelia and Skarner were trying to run down Graves. While this took Taric into tower range, it also brought him close enough to get a dazzle onto Graves, securing the kill. His pull of Vlad (to which Maokai was able to twisted advance to) secured a kill on Vlad and saved TOO was a nice way to make up for it, but if Graves had lived, TSM would've had a 4 on 2 for about 5 seconds unless Taric wanted to tank tow towers. Chaox was solid but unspectacular. He and Xpecial did a really good job of dominating the laning phase of Game 2, but it just wasn't enough.

T_T Wish they'd have these teams play more than two games. Either Double elim (Final = Bo5 with losers bracket winner down one game, because having two Bo3's is stupid) or at least placement games for 5-8th place... just something. Feels like a waste to gather all of these teams and play so few matches.

Edit:

After going back and reading the live comments, I'm astonished at the reactions. TSM played two pretty close games against one of the two best teams in this tournament. They were absolutely crushing the first one, and one disastrous teamfight turned it on its head. Its frankly a better result than any other NA or EU team outside of M5 has posted. Its two frickin games against possibly the best team in the world. Why is that a bad result or something to be ashamed of?
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
October 06 2012 05:23 GMT
#7177
On October 06 2012 13:16 Jaksiel wrote:
Where can I sign up for this 95% chance of making 70k?

obama would like to know

would solve our economy
Killcani
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden448 Posts
October 06 2012 05:38 GMT
#7178
On October 06 2012 14:15 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Well, I was sort of surprised how that went, and also sort of not. I mean, thus far the tournament has confirmed that TSM is clearly the best NA team but also that they're still a bit behind the top Korean teams. Its a shame these two had to face off so early. I feel there's 3 or 4 teams in the Ro8 that TSM could've taken games off of and/or beaten, but Frost just so good!

Chaox and Regi had really good games. Dyrus was pretty bad in game 1, pushing to tower (fine) but staying one wave too long without ward coverage. After that, it was a clear snowball against him. I also thought TOO did a poor job on Shyvanna; I mean, he was behind on CS and losing buffs to a Maokai. He camped top and bottom way too much that game given the relatively weak ganking power of Shyvanna. I guess he was trying for a countergank, but it never worked out. Frankly, I just don't think his mentality is right for Shyvanna.

Regi did a great job, though his call to engage on Vlad in game two was the turning point of the match. Funniest play was when Xpecial grabbed Taric in game two while Irelia and Skarner were trying to run down Graves. While this took Taric into tower range, it also brought him close enough to get a dazzle onto Graves, securing the kill. His pull of Vlad (to which Maokai was able to twisted advance to) secured a kill on Vlad and saved TOO was a nice way to make up for it, but if Graves had lived, TSM would've had a 4 on 2 for about 5 seconds unless Taric wanted to tank tow towers. Chaox was solid but unspectacular. He and Xpecial did a really good job of dominating the laning phase of Game 2, but it just wasn't enough.

T_T Wish they'd have these teams play more than two games. Either Double elim (Final = Bo5 with losers bracket winner down one game, because having two Bo3's is stupid) or at least placement games for 5-8th place... just something. Feels like a waste to gather all of these teams and play so few matches.

Edit:

After going back and reading the live comments, I'm astonished at the reactions. TSM played two pretty close games against one of the two best teams in this tournament. They were absolutely crushing the first one, and one disastrous teamfight turned it on its head. Its frankly a better result than any other NA or EU team outside of M5 has posted. Its two frickin games against possibly the best team in the world. Why is that a bad result or something to be ashamed of?


The thing is by having it single elim they can do it in only 4 days and make it alot more exiciting and thats probably want they want.
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5256 Posts
October 06 2012 05:39 GMT
#7179
How were the TSM/Najin games? I only saw the m5 ones.
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-06 05:46:29
October 06 2012 05:42 GMT
#7180
On October 06 2012 13:16 Jaksiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 12:50 cLutZ wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:
On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.

NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.



In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.


I doubt the talents related to Professional athletics translate much to pro gaming. The problem is that the NA scene probably hasn't identified the best players to put on teams and has not been able to arrange the best teams. Regi/Hotshot owning 2 of the top 3 teams is bad for the scene.

Also, living in America costs much more than living in Korea/China. Progaming winning and salaries are not nearly as enticing here, so you lose a lot of people to "real life". Because the 1/1000 chance of being a progamer making 150k/year is not really that great compared to a 95% chance of making 70k.


Where can I sign up for this 95% chance of making 70k?


Sign me up too I need to make a career choice :D

Also MLG Halo 2 events were awesome! Whoever mentioned those.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
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