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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.
Fair warning to all. |
On October 06 2012 11:34 elementz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub. I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore. I was mostly aiming that towards the later half of the scenes, mne.ferus crs orb etc, or alternate/fnatic/mouz etc in eu. Plus the salaries are not really enough from the teams as is so this guys have to stream the soloQ, and the sejuani games in order to pay the bills (scarra was saying how expensive LA is), so the double dip will help them stop streaming as much. Also some of these teams need to change what they blame for their loses, for example like Freak said yesterday, CLG.eu will blame themselves and see what they could have done different...CLG.na is playing the coin toss...
Glad to see you posting one of the few LoL forums that actually have proper moderators and content/users.
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On October 06 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub. I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore.
NaDa can. :D
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Are there going to be VODs?
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
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On October 06 2012 10:42 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. People in the US still seem to watch starcraft. Although to be honest I doubt how much longer that is going to last.
I do think SC2 interest (WoL at least) has plateaued, but WCS EU getting 100K concurrent still shows that interest can spike up.
SC2 has been oversaturated with events for a while now though
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On October 06 2012 11:37 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:34 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2012 11:23 elementz wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:On October 06 2012 10:31 RealQ wrote:
Also. its gonna get worse, this is just the start of Asian domination in lol, the bigger it gets in korea the bigger the gap between
NA/EU and KR is gonna be. Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. One of the better things in S3 is allowing some of the up and coming teams to get salaries, this will allow them to have 8 teams per region that can focus 100% on the game, (Each region so far really only has 2/3 teams that can be at the International level--m5/clg.eu, frost/blaze/sword, we/ig, tpa/sgs, no na teams lol--and really only those teams can take the game 100% full time, so allowing for 8 teams will be cool). Also the forced sub rule, a sixth per team that will serve a sub, and I think the smartest teams will get a guy that has good knowledge of the game, and use him as a coach--make him watch all your scrims, and let him be the one that points at the mistakes it is a lot easier for someone cool-headed from the outside to tell you what you did wrong. And possibly he can be good so if a member gets sick to the point where they can't play he can actually sub, but I think this should be the last use of the sub. I am 99.9% sure that TSM, CLGNA, and Dig are already paid in salary. Dig, for example, is just not dedicated to the game. Crumbz is still going to school and scarra plays mid sejuani every day before the play-off. You can't do this sort of things and still expect to win anymore. I was mostly aiming that towards the later half of the scenes, mne.ferus crs orb etc, or alternate/fnatic/mouz etc in eu. Plus the salaries are not really enough from the teams as is so this guys have to stream the soloQ, and the sejuani games in order to pay the bills (scarra was saying how expensive LA is), so the double dip will help them stop streaming as much. Also some of these teams need to change what they blame for their loses, for example like Freak said yesterday, CLG.eu will blame themselves and see what they could have done different...CLG.na is playing the coin toss... Glad to see you posting one of the few LoL forums that actually have proper moderators and content/users.
I am not Crs Elementz, but I have had this name before LoL was even in beta so I refuse to change my TL username!
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Riot has to be extremely pleased with the way the games are playing out so far. A large number of champs banned/picked. Teams getting behind early and coming back through superior play (one complaint I have seen a lot is that LoL is too snowbally). Lots of aggression for more entertaining games (thanks M5 and Koreans, owe you one). Gotta admit the games are playing out pretty damn well from an esports perspective.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On October 06 2012 11:59 petered wrote:
Riot has to be extremely pleased with the way the games are playing out so far. A large number of champs banned/picked. Teams getting behind early and coming back through superior play (one complaint I have seen a lot is that LoL is too snowbally). Lots of aggression for more entertaining games (thanks M5 and Koreans, owe you one). Gotta admit the games are playing out pretty damn well from an esports perspective.
1 Team advancing from NA would have been a nice fit, too. But yeah pretty good for esports at the moment.
Except poor Alistar :<
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On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win. NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL.
What the hell? You're underrating China massively in LoL. China is definitely not as dominant in LoL as they are in DotA (probably because of the casual gamer culture around LoL in China compared to Korea and Chinese DotA) but they are way above NA. China is definitely above NA and is likely above EU in LoL overall. M5 and CLG.eu are extremely, extremely good EU teams - statistical outliers perhaps.
Anyway, I personally count Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as being part of the Chinese scene in the same way that NA (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), EU, SEA all lumps several culturally similar countries together.
Each of the current top Chinese teams have problems with their playstyle though. WE lacks a cohesive game plan and probably needs a jungle shotcaller, but has arguably the two best carry players in the world and the best teamfight execution in the world. iG has always been kinda funky and lacking a bread and butter playstyle, but they are extremely versatile. TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have. Currently, Frost and Blaze play like machines and their preparation is BW-esque, and no team outside Korea can compete with that in an extended series.
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I wouldn't give up hope on NA/EU. Games like LoL have less of mechanical barrier like RTS, and by very nature of the game there is greater chance for a team to become strong in a relatively short amount of time. The sum of the parts can be greater than the pieces apart; if a team focuses not only on the game components but also the team aspect of it, they will be able to become better.
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Canada and NZ are part of NA... wtf
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On October 06 2012 10:39 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 06 2012 10:36 Azarkon wrote:
I think the results are quite even thus far between the very top EU / NA and Asian teams.
First match: Europe 2-0 China
Second match: Taiwan 2-0 Korea
Third match: Korea 2-0 North America
Relax. i like how NA supporters always group EU with them into "NA/EU" when the sentiment is not at all returned by EU people lol  Okay, so NA is bad at video games. Too bad we still make all of the games you play 
No way man. We slaughter the Japanese and all Europeans at Pokemon. Hell, Ray has been the champ for 3 years running.
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On October 06 2012 12:03 1ntrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win. NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL. What the hell? You're underrating China massively in LoL. China is definitely not as dominant in LoL as they are in DotA (probably because of the casual gamer culture around LoL in China compared to Korea and Chinese DotA) but they are way above NA. China is definitely above NA and is likely above EU in LoL overall. M5 and CLG.eu are extremely, extremely good EU teams - statistical outliers perhaps. Anyway, I personally count Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as being part of the Chinese scene in the same way that NA (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), EU, SEA all lumps several culturally similar countries together. Each of the current top Chinese teams have problems with their playstyle though. WE lacks a cohesive game plan and probably needs a jungle shotcaller, but has arguably the two best carry players in the world and the best teamfight execution in the world. iG has always been kinda funky and lacking a bread and butter playstyle, but they are extremely versatile. TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have. Currently, Frost and Blaze play like machines and their preparation is BW-esque, and no team outside Korea can compete with that in an extended series.
Don't mind him, he's the same guy who posted at length before the DotA International that the EU/NA scene is equal to strength to the Chinese one and stands by that in his clouded delusions
The Chinese scene is quite unstable and does have the problem of having most of its talent needing to filter down from the DotA scene as well as the only 2 good teams (WE and iG) to periodically shuffle due to poor immediate results, resulting in the 2 teams dominating the scene while not always being amazing themselves. However at the moment the gap between the Chinese and Korean Scene is not very big, the Chinese are perhaps flashier and often stronger in lane and the early game but sometimes lack the consistency of the very best teams in the world. They go back and forth with the koreans in online events are sometimes show flashes of brilliance, in a lot of ways their play is quite akin to the SEA scene in DotA (high individual skill, mediocre team coordination, prone to throw)
M5 seems to play a completely different game to everybody else that I hesitate to even associate them with the European scene, (perhaps due to their relative isolation) they approach the game differently and simply "picks imba champions". Their individual skill is top notch but not superlative (shown by the games vs iG today and various European teams earlier) but their understanding of the game seems rather next level to me. The team comp in Game one vs iG, for example, was quite beautiful and elegant once analyzed.
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On October 06 2012 10:52 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:49 Caphe wrote:On October 06 2012 10:45 1ntrigue wrote:On October 06 2012 10:21 QuakerOats wrote:On October 06 2012 10:19 overt wrote:On October 06 2012 10:19 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:17 overt wrote:
NA worst scene in esports. LoL no exception. Don't expect them to do any better in S3 to be honest.
Still jiji fanboy.
edit:
asian girls fucking hot let's be honest, FPS games the only thing NA has ever been good at Coming from a Quake/Halo/TF2 background the NA scene in Brood War/SC2/LoL/DotA makes me really sad. BW wasn't too bad, we had Nony and Idra! Lol, I hope that was sarcasm. No its actually true. NA's BW is not that bad. Since everybody can't beat Koreans, thats where the word foreigners come from. NA's BW can hold its own against EU/Non-Korean. But people back then are much more solid than nowadays. Today you can do nothing, just stream you eating and still there are 20k watching you. NA BW was not that bad because everybody in europe played wc3 from 2002 onwards. If you look at SC2 nowadays most of the best foreigners are ex-wc3 players.
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On October 06 2012 12:03 1ntrigue wrote:
TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have.
This is just completely false...
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Well, I missed most of TSM vs Azubu Frost (saw enough of game 1 to see Dyrus get dunked).
That being said: how on earth does TSM think Darius is a good pick against Jayce? Darius excels by sticking to a target, Jayce has a ranged form and has one of the best disengages in the game. The Jayce has to be comically horrible and camped to lose this matchup. This isn't rocket science.
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On October 06 2012 11:03 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:55 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:52 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:49 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:47 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 10:46 Woony wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 10:40 TheYango wrote:On October 06 2012 10:39 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 10:33 CROrens wrote:
[quote]
Until it reaches the point where non Korean teams become "foreign" and you got separate tourneys for Korea and the rest of the world. We are witnessing history folks Season 3 is region locked for the most part (according to what has been revealed thus far). This allows each region to remain popular and interested in the game. I'm not sure how popular and interested NA viewers will remain when their home teams lose in 20 minutes to every notable EU/Asian team. Don't be so harsh, it's not like all of the NA viewers stopped watching DotA after the first Day of the main event at TI2. They're not going to stop watching LoL tommorow either now that all the NA teams are gone NA can also always USA USA behind M5/Na'Vi/Stephano One tournament, shure but long-term it becomes a problem. I'm not shure if most people are still going to watch MLG in a year or two when every tournament is 90% koreans. It isn't a problem when your tournament structure is region vs. region vs. region vs. region, which is where tournaments are moving towards. The way Dota and LoL run their tournaments you won't ever have a tournament with 90% Koreans. I was obviously referring to the other case ie. MLG. MLG is in a pretty bad spot because they can't just stop inviting koreans. Yeah, well, that's MLG's - and Kespa's - problem. A lot of us did speak out against having a region stacking format but the naysayers just told us that 'nobody cares about region; people watch for the best players.' Provided they are correct, then MLG has no issue. It's just a very bad situation to be in. A competition without koreans is not going to have any integrity but with koreans your playerpool is going to be 90% unmarketable, uncharismatic robots. Why is it so bad to have region only tournaments?? We need tournaments where NA/EU/KR can both compete and have a reasonable chance of winning something otherwise the scene that's winning will only get stronger while the others get weaker.
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2012 12:31 theBizness wrote:
You're artificially propping up the scene by doing that. It's like government subsidies gone wrong.
I don't agree with that. In real sports, countries that are weaker at a given sport (e.g. Soccer/Football) can have perfectly acceptable local competition grow up, without international competition from "better" countries interfering. Same deal here.
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On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans.
NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football.
In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.
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On October 06 2012 12:42 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 12:28 Kiarip wrote:
I like this line of reasoning... I think NA gaming is bad because all our talented, motivated people go into business and entrepreneurship and end up making tons of money instead of playing video games. If you look at the most successful tech companies of the past few decades, microsoft, apple, IBM, they were all formed by Americans. NA gaming sucks because of all our good athletes play basketball and American football. In all honesty I wish the NA scene had a better way to promote arranged 5s. Right now it seems like your LoL e-peen is based on your solo Q and watching Worlds makes me wanna play arranged 5s but I don't know how or where to find a team.
Those who truly want to play ranked 5s and have the time to set it up will do so.
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EPT
