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On August 27 2012 16:05 HPoirot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:01 overt wrote:
Well if their story is true they did collude to play an ARAM in game 1 together. So DQing them for collusion is understandable. But it could simply be that they basically just got DQ'd because of the ARAM game and that the prize splitting and match fixing allegations are false but were believed to be true by MLG/Riot originally. Problem here is that MLG said again and again that the ARAM was not the problem and that they needed to investigate. If an ARAM is grounds for disqualification(Kinda difficult for both teams to accidentally random 5 champions and go mid), there was no reason for the rest of the series to be played out. Which means MLG exploited the players from Game 2 on.
Maybe someone, like qtpie probably, made a joke about splitting the money.
Maybe someone, like qtpie, made a joke about letting Dignitas win. Or letting Curse win.
MLG could've just been waiting to see what happens. Or getting more ad revenue by letting the games continue. There's no incentive for them to stop the games early.
I mean, this is all just speculation until we get more of the facts.
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On August 27 2012 16:05 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? Where did you get the notion that they "stopped them"? No evidence that they intervened and Curse says that they just agreed for 1st game ARAM. MLG has stated that it was for colluding and NOT for the ARAM.
Thats not what i said. I said if the ARAM was why they were DQ'd like they are saying in their video, why DIDN'T MLG or Riot stop them from doing it in game one?
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“competitors may not intentionally Forfeit a Game or conspire to manipulate Rankings or Brackets.”
So apparently this is the line they got DQ'd for. As far as I can tell prize-splitting doesn't come under this definition. Prize splitting does NOT affect the games/rankings/brackets. All it does is affect who gets what, they still play for the games/rankings/brackets.
Ironically playing an ARAM could easily be interpreted as manipulating a game.
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Don't these teams have managers or something? First the olympics and now this lol. I can't wrap my head around this kind of behavior in front of the paying public. Most people don't even arrange games when they play rock paper scissors at 5 AM.
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On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified?
It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven.
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On August 27 2012 16:08 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:05 HPoirot wrote:On August 27 2012 16:01 overt wrote:
Well if their story is true they did collude to play an ARAM in game 1 together. So DQing them for collusion is understandable. But it could simply be that they basically just got DQ'd because of the ARAM game and that the prize splitting and match fixing allegations are false but were believed to be true by MLG/Riot originally. Problem here is that MLG said again and again that the ARAM was not the problem and that they needed to investigate. If an ARAM is grounds for disqualification(Kinda difficult for both teams to accidentally random 5 champions and go mid), there was no reason for the rest of the series to be played out. Which means MLG exploited the players from Game 2 on. Maybe someone, like qtpie probably, made a joke about splitting the money. Maybe someone, like qtpie, made a joke about letting Dignitas win. Or letting Curse win. MLG could've just been waiting to see what happens. Or getting more ad revenue by letting the games continue. There's no incentive for them to stop the games early. I mean, this is all just speculation until we get more of the facts.
If MLG is going to be strict in enforcing the rules they later cited, the series would have been stopped after Game 1. An ARAM is collusion(benign collusion, but collusion). Both teams should be DQed on the spot. Then they investigate and determine if any more was going on. You cannot in good conscience let the two teams play on while knowing full well that you plan on DQing them.
This is the description for the latest Curse video:
"Both teams have agreed that the disqualification was warranted. There's some contention over the exact nature of the actions taken by Curse NA and Dignitas which led to the disqualification -- but regardless, both teams, as well as MLG and Riot agree that any collusion, or not playing a tournament match to win, warrants disqualification.
None of the parties involved today -- especially the teams -- are happy about this conduct because they are all serious about League of Legends eSports."
Curse disputes all allegations but playing an ARAM. Thus, they have accepted that playing an ARAM warrants their disqualification for collusion.
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On August 27 2012 16:09 TheLink wrote:
“competitors may not intentionally Forfeit a Game or conspire to manipulate Rankings or Brackets.”
So apparently this is the line they got DQ'd for. As far as I can tell prize-splitting doesn't come under this definition. Prize splitting does NOT affect the games/rankings/brackets. All it does is affect who gets what, they still play for the games/rankings/brackets.
Ironically playing an ARAM could easily be interpreted as manipulating a game.
That's been my stance all along. Obviously handicapping yourself and not trying to win is pretty close to intentionally forfeiting a game and probably in the spirit of the rule. That's another reason I don't think anything will get reversed. If MLG can't provide the witnesses or come to an agreement with people about who said what, they can always go back to the ARAM and use it as justification.
Obviously it would look worse on MLG if they had to, but I imagine they'll do that before taking back their penalties.
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On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven.
I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented.
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On August 27 2012 16:14 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven. I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented.
Curse didn't say they got DQ'd because of the ARAM game. No one on this thread has said that either.
Curse claims all they did wrong was play an ARAM game. MLG believes they agreed to split the prize pool. Redbeard from Riot claims they agreed that Curse would win the match.
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On August 27 2012 16:14 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven. I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented.
And Riot is taking it one step further than MLG and saying there was match fixing. Different stories from every angle. No one can be sure of anything.
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Pretty sure they are being DQ'ed for the Aram.
It is just that MLG cant explain why they let the Aram go ahead or why they didnt stop the games afterwards, so they say the Aram is not the reason.
Curse on the other hand does not fight the collusion allegations because of the Aram, although they deny anything beyond that.
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On August 27 2012 16:18 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven. I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented. Curse didn't say they got DQ'd because of the ARAM game. No one on this thread has said that either. Curse claims all they did wrong was play an ARAM game. MLG believes they agreed to split the prize pool. Redbeard from Riot claims they agreed that Curse would win the match.
did you watch the video you posted? They said it was because of the ARAM and that any other accusations are false.
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On August 27 2012 16:20 Redox wrote:
Pretty sure they are being DQ'ed for the Aram.
It is just that MLG cant explain why they let the Aram go ahead or why they didnt stop the games afterwards, so they say the Aram is not the reason.
Curse on the other hand does not fight the collusion allegations because of the Aram, although they deny anything beyond that.
Honestly that's the smartest move they could make. When a Rioter is throwing around allegations of match fixing and MLG is claiming they agreed to split the prize pool I don't think that's something you fight. Even if the prize pool splitting and match fixing allegations are completely false it just wouldn't be worth it to press that issue.
Just take the deal they give you and start preparing for regionals so you don't have a ton of drama to deal with during crunch time.
If the allegations end up being false I kind of hope that Dig and Curse catch a break and qualify for S2 finals. Even if I'd rather see CLG/TSM go.
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On August 27 2012 16:22 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:20 Redox wrote:
Pretty sure they are being DQ'ed for the Aram.
It is just that MLG cant explain why they let the Aram go ahead or why they didnt stop the games afterwards, so they say the Aram is not the reason.
Curse on the other hand does not fight the collusion allegations because of the Aram, although they deny anything beyond that. Honestly that's the smartest move they could make. When a Rioter is throwing around allegations of match fixing and MLG is claiming they agreed to split the prize pool I don't think that's something you fight. Even if the prize pool splitting and match fixing allegations are completely false it just wouldn't be worth it to press that issue. Just take the deal they give you and start preparing for regionals so you don't have a ton of drama to deal with during crunch time. If the allegations end up being false I kind of hope that Dig and Curse catch a break and qualify for S2 finals. Even if I'd rather see CLG/TSM go.
That is true. MLG is one thing, but if Riot is after you you better STFU, fighting them would be just stupid.
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What's odd is that apparently everyone in the venue heard about this yet no one stepped up to tell MLG before hand or to even post it on a forum.
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On August 27 2012 16:22 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:20 Redox wrote:
Pretty sure they are being DQ'ed for the Aram.
It is just that MLG cant explain why they let the Aram go ahead or why they didnt stop the games afterwards, so they say the Aram is not the reason.
Curse on the other hand does not fight the collusion allegations because of the Aram, although they deny anything beyond that. Honestly that's the smartest move they could make. When a Rioter is throwing around allegations of match fixing and MLG is claiming they agreed to split the prize pool I don't think that's something you fight. Even if the prize pool splitting and match fixing allegations are completely false it just wouldn't be worth it to press that issue. Just take the deal they give you and start preparing for regionals so you don't have a ton of drama to deal with during crunch time. If the allegations end up being false I kind of hope that Dig and Curse catch a break and qualify for S2 finals. Even if I'd rather see CLG/TSM go.
Not to mention if you press it you could end up with worse consequences. A DQ and still being able to play next week is amazing considering the allegations and how MLG has handled it in the past.
Off topic but Ashe a good first champion to get?
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On August 27 2012 16:19 Djeez wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven. I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented. And Riot is taking it one step further than MLG and saying there was match fixing. Different stories from every angle. No one can be sure of anything.
That actual post about them determining the winner before the match seems to have been removed from the forums unless you use a red tracker to find it.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
I really dont get how people are this stupid. An ARAM? What the fuck. Not even mentioning the possible other problems.
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On August 27 2012 16:35 HazMat wrote:
What's odd is that apparently everyone in the venue heard about this yet no one stepped up to tell MLG before hand or to even post it on a forum.
Likely because this was talked about over food in a jokingly manner, but then people realized shit might be true once they started the ARAM. Anyone talking about match fixing hasn't seen the games, however. Prize splitting is a whole 'nother debate, as it is something that happens pretty much everywhere (even though lots of SC2 fanboys will disagree thoroughly), but is usually kept under the rug.
Personally I started watching after the ARAM and had no idea about the whole situation and was just really, really sad and confused that I couldn't get to see Nyjacky haul a trophy 
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On August 27 2012 16:25 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:22 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 16:20 Redox wrote:
Pretty sure they are being DQ'ed for the Aram.
It is just that MLG cant explain why they let the Aram go ahead or why they didnt stop the games afterwards, so they say the Aram is not the reason.
Curse on the other hand does not fight the collusion allegations because of the Aram, although they deny anything beyond that. Honestly that's the smartest move they could make. When a Rioter is throwing around allegations of match fixing and MLG is claiming they agreed to split the prize pool I don't think that's something you fight. Even if the prize pool splitting and match fixing allegations are completely false it just wouldn't be worth it to press that issue. Just take the deal they give you and start preparing for regionals so you don't have a ton of drama to deal with during crunch time. If the allegations end up being false I kind of hope that Dig and Curse catch a break and qualify for S2 finals. Even if I'd rather see CLG/TSM go. That is true. MLG is one thing, but if Riot is after you you better STFU, fighting them would be just stupid.
Where do you think the Curse statement attached to the video came from? I highly doubt that is what Hubert(Curse head) intended to release before he entered into a conference call with Riot bigwigs. Especially since the conference call only made him madder.
On August 27 2012 16:39 ChaosShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 16:19 Djeez wrote:On August 27 2012 16:14 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:12 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:05 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 27 2012 16:02 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 16:00 jmbthirteen wrote:
So just ignore what people at the event said what happened. cool. I heard listening to rumors is a good idea. Why didn't MLG or Riot stop them from doing the ARAM if thats why they were disqualified? It's not why the were dq'd. The problem is MLG is stating many different reasons and none of them have been proven. I've only seen 1 reason from MLG, and thats the collusion for the splitting the prize money. But Curse just put out a video saying its was because of the ARAM and people in this thread are saying its cause of the ARAM. I'm just pointing out that it makes no sense to say they got DQ'd for the ARAM when it could have easily been prevented. And Riot is taking it one step further than MLG and saying there was match fixing. Different stories from every angle. No one can be sure of anything. That actual post about them determining the winner before the match seems to have been removed from the forums unless you use a red tracker to find it.
It has a curious property where it's either on the top of page 9 or the bottom of page 8, but is never on the same page as you. Unless you use red tracker or find next red post.
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EPT
