Alright, I looked around and as far as I can tell, from the curse point of view this happened
At a restaurant, with both dig/crs in attendance along with some MLG guys, a joke went around that they would play ARAM in the finals along with jokes that they would share prize money, possibly fix the games, collusion etc etc. After the meal was over, crs/dig agreed to ARAM in game one and ONLY game one. When MLG saw this, they investigated and realized that crs/dig were also discussing/joking around about collusion and thought that was true as well and disqualified them on the assumption that the joking was in fact, fact.
From MLG's perspective,
The information they had was someone(s) had lunch with Dig/Crs. That person heard/laughed/talked about the ARAM/match fixing banter being thrown about with crs/dig. Later, when the ARAM actually came true, based on what that person/persons had heard, they came to the conclusion that there was a chance that the result of the Bo5 was the result of collusion and not the joke that dig/crs had intended it to be. Most likely, what dig/crs confessed to was the agreement to play an ARAM in game 1 and nothing beyond that.
As far as I can tell, that's generally what happened. Until more information or official statements come out from the parties involved though, I can't tell what the story beyond what's out there is.
Offical Statement from Riot, Teams and MLG - "Both teams have agreed that the disqualification was warranted. There’s some contention over the exact nature of the actions taken by Curse NA and Dignitas which led to the disqualification – but regardless, both teams, as well as MLG and Riot agree that any collusion, or not playing a tournament match to win, warrants disqualification.
None of the parties involved today – especially the teams – are happy about this conduct because they are all serious about League of Legends eSports."
Yeah that statement was in the Curse video linked a page or two back. What sucks is that we probably won't hear any further official word from the teams or organizations on this issue. Leaving the fans to speculate whether or not there was prize pool splitting or matching fixing actually going on or not.
So I've just woken up to all the drama, I went to sleep when game 5 started.
To be honest, the games 2,3 and 4 of the finals were better than any other game in the tournament. That's just my opinion, but it really didn't look like anyone was intentionally losing. IF Crs and Dignitas conspired to violate MLG rules, yes they should be DQ'd. However, I'd like to see some evidence instead of hearsay from some crowd people.
Then there's another problem and that lies with MLG and Riot for how Season 2 is set up and how MLG Raleigh was. It's the same thing as the Naniwa situation as the organiser is definitely partly to blame for (mostly) inconsequential games. Yes there is a difference in prize pool between first and second, but the difference is only $8k.
The way Riot set up season 2 meant that quite a few teams would qualify early on (the most stable teams that won't disband and regularly perform well). So before the last few tourneys for circuit points are played, TSM, Dig, Crs, CLG etc they have all qualified for the regional finals and seeding is the only thing that they can fight over.
One way to fix this is to have teams that are already qualified not compete for circuit points anymore. They can come to the tourneys for the prize money, but they will not receive circuit points. Seeding could be decided from Season results or from one tourney where all the qualified teams fight purely over seeding.
Tl;dr If both teams conspired against MLG rules, there is still blame to put upon Riot and MLG for setting Season 2 up improperly, but the DQ would be very appropriate.
On August 27 2012 17:39 Goragoth wrote: An important point to take note of for those saying that splitting the prize pool isn't a big deal: without any money on the line Dignitas would have an incentive to lose, since this would give them a more favourable matchup in the next tournament due to how the circuit points turn out. Thus an agreement to split the money would be virtually the same as matchfixing anyway (they might still give their best out of pride but it is certainly unlikely). It would be less problematic, (though still very wrong in my opinion), if both teams had the same level of incentive to win in the final with a split pool.
How do you figure that? If they won the match they would have ended up 2nd seed and had a first round match vs LgN, if they lost they would have a first round matchup at regionals vs TD (a much more consistant top 5 placing team than LgN). Scarra has said in interviews before that TD's playstyle is hard for them to handle; If the match was actually fixed (which i doubt), it wouldn't make sense for dignitas to take a loss like they did.
Sorry, I was just going by what others have been saying in this thread. Such as:
The rumor was that Dig threw so they wouldn't have to face Legion in NA qualifiers. Seems like that it might be plausible.
(It doesn't help that casters were commenting consistently about Dig's problems against Legion).
However, if Dignitas actually prefer the win and ended up losing why is there speculation of matchfixing? Since it didn't matter for Curse, assuming the teams decided an outcome before hand then it would only make sense for Dignitas to take the series. Are you saying that Curse winning pretty much proves that there was no actual matchfixing?
On August 27 2012 18:55 Cuddle wrote: Both teams confirmed the collusion when confronted, before the official ruling was out. Why is this still a discussion?
GG MLG and Riot!
Because Curse and MLG and Riot all have different definitions of what the collusion was.
On August 27 2012 18:55 Cuddle wrote: Both teams confirmed the collusion when confronted, before the official ruling was out. Why is this still a discussion?
GG MLG and Riot!
Because we are not discussing if they colluded to play Aram but if they colluded to split the prize money or even fixed the result of the games.
Riot and MLG seem to claim the second is true, while Curse clearly denied it. They basically say the only thing they did wrong was the Aram game. .
On August 27 2012 18:55 Cuddle wrote: Both teams confirmed the collusion when confronted, before the official ruling was out. Why is this still a discussion?
GG MLG and Riot!
The discussion was primarily on what the collusion was about and whether the crime merits the punishment. There is no doubt they agreed to an ARAM, that's clear but anything beyond that is up in the air.
On August 27 2012 16:40 Beyonder wrote: I really dont get how people are this stupid. An ARAM? What the fuck. Not even mentioning the possible other problems.
Well those 10 guys aren't exactly completely stupid, and I'm pretty sure if they fixed matches, they wouldn't have done an ARAM which would have more than likely shed light on it.
The current story is very very very shady, but the ARAM should in fact prove there wasn't any match fixing or anything of the sort. At the same time, MLG specifically told it was NOT because of the ARAM.
Shows the average IQ of the LoL community when everyone on Reddit/everyotherwebsiterelatedtoLoL think splitting the prize money is OK and isn't illegal... and they fail to read the fact it has nothing to do with the ARAM. So glad they got punished for this, hope it sends a message to everyone.
Nothing really new if you've already read through the last 20 or so pages here but he collates the various statements and tweets for people who haven't been following this.
The way i see it there are now 2 scenarios. MLG states matchfixing happend. Curse has stated there has been no matchfixing outside of the ARAM. Dignitas hasnt made a statement yet.
If Curse is lying and Dignitas statement (when it comes) will admit to price/winner fixing they are even more stupid then i gave em credit for. Or Dignitas will deny the match fixing aswell and MLG is either working off incomplete info or strait up lying.
On August 27 2012 21:02 Gorsameth wrote: The way i see it there are now 2 scenarios. MLG states matchfixing happend. Curse has stated there has been no matchfixing outside of the ARAM. Dignitas hasnt made a statement yet.
If Curse is lying and Dignitas statement (when it comes) will admit to price/winner fixing they are even more stupid then i gave em credit for. Or Dignitas will deny the match fixing aswell and MLG is either working off incomplete info or strait up lying.
Legally it will make no difference though. Riot is on this and neither team will dare to challenge them. Both teams will (and apparently already have) accept that there was collusion and that the prize money is revoked. Even if there was no prize splitting or match fixing but just the Aram.
The punishment as it stands currently is indeed a done deal and I dont think many if any are judging it as unfair. The real question is the bigger allegation here
I'm starting to think that MLG asked something along the lines of "Are the rumors of you two meeting to plan what happened prior to the finals true?" and they said yes and apologized. That leaves it vague to interpretation by all parties.
Man, I dislike this immensely. While I realise that MLG and co have a business to run and so on and so forth, Predeciding on an ARAM game to decide a set is not a sin, so long as both teams actually play to compete/win. The faux pas is on Riot/MLG here, because there is absolutely nothing in the game that says you can't do this, nor (I'm pretty damn sure) in MLG's rulebook.
Before you jump on me for saying this, consider that in this case the tournament managers are redefining the rules of the game simply because it did not give them the games they wanted. There is nothing in LoL that says you have to run in all three lanes with a jungler. In fact, there is NOTHING IN LOL THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO PLAY A CERTAIN WAY AT ALL. There is what you can and what you can't do. This is the case with all videogames. This is what makes videogames particularly interesting and unique.
Worse, they decided to strip the teams of their prizes and prestige because they disagreed with the way they played. That shows intense disrespect for the players. Ultimately, without them we would have no tournaments, no pro scene, nothing. Perhaps afterwards everyone can agree that it would be better if this doesn't happen again, make some amendments and there we go. But saying 'you didn't play the way the audience felt you should play because you thought it would be more enjoyable' is absolutely, positively and completely not a justifiable reason for the action they took.
I should state that IF it comes out that the teams DID pre-determine a winner or both knowingly bias the competition one way or another, that is deserving of this punishment since that is clearly against both the spirit and letter of tournament rules. I don't feel that deciding to split the prize pool is so serious however. It's definitely not something you should do, but ultimately it's a moral judgement for the players. There's no caveat in the rules that say you can't do certain things with your money, and it's ultimately un-policeable in any case. It is not the place of MLG or Riot to take action in that case, it is the place of the community of players and spectators to make it clear that that sort of conduct is unacceptable through censure.
In any case, I think this is pretty bullshit scapegoating and does a lot to harm esports athletes. it may have some serious complications down the track.
EPT
