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On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd.
Taunting the crowd? From the responses of the crowd at the game and a fair segment of what people posting online it seems that it at least brought some enjoyment for a significant portion of the group that viewed the game. Now did it turn some people off? Yes of course as people have different tastes but you can't say there were saying "screw you" to the crowd or anyone. They were trying to have fun, not only for them but for the viewers. The ARAM game was their idea of how to do it. Maybe misguided and a bit unprofessional but not some horrible thing.
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The ARAM was very disrespectful to MLG, their teams and sponsors, and the fans who wanted to see a proper grand finals. A tournament(a competition) just isn't the place for that kind of thing, even if they wanted to save their best strategies.
Was there pot splitting? Seems plausible that they agreed to split the pot, as otherwise it doesn't seem likely that either team would agree to do ARAM and essentially flip a coin on the result, but quite unlikely that they decided who would win beforehand. The most likely reason for a lot of this confusion is that many people involved seem to have differing definitions of collusion and match fixing. Until more information comes out there really isn't any way to know for sure.
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On August 27 2012 15:27 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. I don't quite understand how: (1) Tweets from MLG officials outlining the situation --- in particular confronting the teams and their admission of guilt. (2) Official statement from MLG describing the situation and the outcome. (3) Posts on the LoL board by Redbeard explaining the situation on the Riot end. (4) Public video apology by Curse. Is not enough evidence to convince you (or others that seem to be unconvinced).
What? In the video apaology Curse explicitely said that ALL allegations other than playing an ARAM (read: the match fixing, prize splitting) are false.
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On August 27 2012 15:30 Korlin wrote:
The ARAM was very disrespectful to MLG, their teams and sponsors, and the fans who wanted to see a proper grand finals. A tournament(a competition) just isn't the place for that kind of thing, even if they wanted to save their best strategies.
Was there pot splitting? Seems plausible that they agreed to split the pot, as otherwise it doesn't seem likely that either team would agree to do ARAM and essentially flip a coin on the result, but quite unlikely that they decided who would win beforehand. The most likely reason for a lot of this confusion is that many people involved seem to have differing definitions of collusion and match fixing. Until more information comes out there really isn't any way to know for sure.
MLG has stated that their punishment was not due to the ARAM game but due to "Match fixing" which, in their definition, prize splitting falls under.
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On August 27 2012 15:30 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Taunting the crowd? From the responses of the crowd at the game and a fair segment of what people posting online it seems that it at least brought some enjoyment for a significant portion of the group that viewed the game. Now did it turn some people off? Yes of course as people have different tastes but you can't say there were saying "screw you" to the crowd or anyone. They were trying to have fun, not only for them but for the viewers. The ARAM game was their idea of how to do it. Maybe misguided and a bit unprofessional but not some horrible thing.
The crowd seemed to love it. I think I heard them cheering louder at the ARAM game than any other game in the series.
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On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there.
Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best.
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On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. edit: Curse has already denied the allegations. Redbeard claims there was match fixing. MLG claims the teams were conspiring to share the prize pool. We've heard two different stories from the same side. Anyone who believes anything 100% right now is jumping the gun.
Then dont go to MLG. Sit at home and stream while teams actually play instead of make a mockery of the tournament.
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On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. edit: Curse has already denied the allegations. Redbeard claims there was match fixing. MLG claims the teams were conspiring to share the prize pool. We've heard two different stories from the same side. Anyone who believes anything 100% right now is jumping the gun.
It was $20,000 for 1st, and $12,000 for 2nd. And whether or not the game matters is not as simple as how large the prize pool is.
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On August 27 2012 15:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best.
The two best NA teams didn't go. Just shows how unimportant this tournament was. I'm sure MLG would love it if the top four NA teams just stopped going to their tournaments lol.
I would agree that the prize pool doesn't dictate necessarily how important the tournament is. But if Dig or Curse qualify at regionals they get a salary from Riot. They were already qualified to go to regionals. Really difficult to argue that this tournament was that important when even scarra has commented on how unimportant this tournament is in the past week or so.
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On August 27 2012 15:33 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:30 Korlin wrote:
The ARAM was very disrespectful to MLG, their teams and sponsors, and the fans who wanted to see a proper grand finals. A tournament(a competition) just isn't the place for that kind of thing, even if they wanted to save their best strategies.
Was there pot splitting? Seems plausible that they agreed to split the pot, as otherwise it doesn't seem likely that either team would agree to do ARAM and essentially flip a coin on the result, but quite unlikely that they decided who would win beforehand. The most likely reason for a lot of this confusion is that many people involved seem to have differing definitions of collusion and match fixing. Until more information comes out there really isn't any way to know for sure. MLG has stated that their punishment was not due to the ARAM game but due to "Match fixing" which, in their definition, prize splitting falls under.
Well yes. But from what I've read a lot of other people disagree with their definition, although that's not really relevant in regard to what punishments MLG can hand out.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
Whether or not Curse and Dignitas did collude or share the pot, they were stupid enough to bring this on themselves. If you're just joking about playing ARAM to share the prize, then don't go do it right after so people have ammunition against you. In the end, all parties lost something (MLG, Riot, Dig, Curse) and the only ones to blame are the players who put everyone in this situation.
Just to add, I have no problem with teams deciding to play ARAM for any game (including finals) as long as it's only one game and everyone knows beforehand that it's coming. People got pissed because they came to the stream expecting normal SR games and were given something completely different. If Curse/Dignitas announced to everyone (including the stream viewers via the casters) that they were playing ARAM for game 1 as a fan appreciation thing, then there wouldn't be this kind of misunderstanding. Playing the entire series in ARAM would be stupid because that should be left for an ARAM tournament rather than MLG.
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I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle?
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On August 27 2012 15:36 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best. The two best NA teams didn't go. Just shows how unimportant this tournament was. I'm sure MLG would love it if the top four NA teams just stopped going to their tournaments lol.
You're only proving my point. TSM and CLG made the decision not to go. These teams made the decision to go and then disrespected the tournament and its viewers while there. It's a huge difference.
If you want to argue that they didn't collude to throw the games or they didn't agree to split the pot... whatever. Hopefuly evidence will come to light and this will get sorted out one way or the other. But to defend them for fucking around is just silly.
On August 27 2012 15:39 achan1058 wrote:
I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle?
That's what the games other than the ARAM were. Nobody did anything new or ground breaking, just very standard stuff, which is what they should have done in the first game too.
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On August 27 2012 15:14 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:12 zeru wrote:
How can people say life time ban is extreme, do you not remember the brood war match fixing, yeah it was larger scale, but come on, its match fixing. What? Your info is a bit off. Pot sharing does NOT equal match fixing. There is no evidence that they attempted to or succeeded in fixing the finals.
Lifetime ban is extreme but they're lucky they aren't getting banned from the next MLG imo. They openly agreed to fix the pot when points for another tournament were on the line. That alone should result in a severe punishment because we can't trust that they didn't have a reason behind it. Even if they were completely legit and just didn't want to reveal strats today this absolutely can't be allowed because it sets a precedent for other people to do it with the intent of abusing their qualifier points and just lie about why.
Plus M2K (without a doubt best Brawl player at the time) got banned from the 2010 Championships with the huge prize pool for him and a friend doing something similar (splitting pots without actually trying to win vs each other) but it wasn't confirmed as far as I remember in their case. It also wasn't at the GF so it had ladder implications if it was true but the precedent is there. I can't how many people are supporting Crs and Dignitas in this.
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On August 27 2012 15:39 achan1058 wrote:
I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle?
That's what they should have done.
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On August 27 2012 15:39 achan1058 wrote:
I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle?
Yes they can. As already said, there was no malicious intent. They were just stupid and dicked around for one game. The 4 games they played for real acually looked serious and were decent League of Legends.
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On August 27 2012 15:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:36 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best. The two best NA teams didn't go. Just shows how unimportant this tournament was. I'm sure MLG would love it if the top four NA teams just stopped going to their tournaments lol. You're only proving my point. TSM and CLG made the decision not to go. These teams made the decision to go and then disrespected the tournament and its viewers while there. It's a huge difference. If you want to argue that they didn't collude to throw the games or they didn't agree to split the pot... whatever. Hopefuly evidence will come to light and this will get sorted out one way or the other. But to defend them for fucking around is just silly. Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:39 achan1058 wrote:
I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle? That's what the games other than the ARAM were. Nobody did anything new or ground breaking, just very standard stuff, which is what they should have done in the first game too.
They were trying to create excitement by adding in a 1st game ARAM. No one said they weren't "trying" even though the game was far from conventional. They WERE trying to win, they just wanted to add some flavor in and get the crowd excited. And you know what? It worked, the fans who were there where cheering pretty hard during the ARAM game.
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On August 27 2012 15:36 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best. The two best NA teams didn't go. Just shows how unimportant this tournament was. I'm sure MLG would love it if the top four NA teams just stopped going to their tournaments lol. I would agree that the prize pool doesn't dictate necessarily how important the tournament is. But if Dig or Curse qualify at regionals they get a salary from Riot. They were already qualified to go to regionals. Really difficult to argue that this tournament was that important when even scarra has commented on how unimportant this tournament is in the past week or so.
Then don't go. Its not up to MLG if Dig or Curse go. Its up to themselves. And when you go to a tournament you are expected to compete. So if you don't plan on doing that, don't even show up. If they really thought none of it mattered, why even show up?
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On August 27 2012 15:33 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:30 Slaughter wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Taunting the crowd? From the responses of the crowd at the game and a fair segment of what people posting online it seems that it at least brought some enjoyment for a significant portion of the group that viewed the game. Now did it turn some people off? Yes of course as people have different tastes but you can't say there were saying "screw you" to the crowd or anyone. They were trying to have fun, not only for them but for the viewers. The ARAM game was their idea of how to do it. Maybe misguided and a bit unprofessional but not some horrible thing. The crowd seemed to love it. I think I heard them cheering louder at the ARAM game than any other game in the series.
It was by far the most energetic the crowd got. And the stream viewers went up too.
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On August 27 2012 15:40 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:36 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 15:29 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 15:25 Alzadar wrote:On August 27 2012 15:13 Parnage wrote:
This is just insane, I want -hard- evidence. I don't want some joke tweets I want someone with a audio or video recording saying "Here it is the smoking gun". I am sorry but I don't see Dignitas trying to matchfix and throw games. Dignitas has always been a fairly serious team, lead by a pretty serious CEO who will strait up bring the hammer of Thor down on anyone who messes with the image of Team Dignitas has he not? So why would they risk that kind of hammerfall?
At least Curse you can kind of make a case that they might do something but it's shaky ground at best.
As far as I am concerned the ARAM game was funny, it was entertaining and everyone seemed to enjoy it because the game didn't matter. The game didn't matter. It was a throw away game and both teams agreed on doing it. MLG isn't that blind so I am pretty sure someone on that end knew it as well.
Until I see some hard proof someone needs to buy Curse a trophy because they earned it. How did the game not matter? It was part of the grand final of a big LAN event, with a big prize-pool at stake. Hundreds of people bought tickets to watch it live, and probably thousands paid to watch it online. If they had agreed to have a show match ARAM before the final series, that seems perfectly fine. But playing it as part of the series makes a mockery of the tournament and is essentially taunting the crowd. Next week is a qualifier for a tournament with a $3 million prize pool. This tournament was like $2,000 dollars for first? And there was zero chance either team would not make it to regional qualifiers regardless of the outcome. The money they made at MLG likely could've been made as a team by streaming Friday-Sunday in their homes. Especially after you consider the cost of travel and expenses while there. Then don't go. Nobody is forcing the teams to go to the tournament. If they don't want to, they don't have to. If their team says they have to, they can quit the team. Otherwise, you go and try to win. It's disrespectful to the tournament, your team, your sponsors, and the fans to give it anything other than your best. The two best NA teams didn't go. Just shows how unimportant this tournament was. I'm sure MLG would love it if the top four NA teams just stopped going to their tournaments lol. You're only proving my point. TSM and CLG made the decision not to go. These teams made the decision to go and then disrespected the tournament and its viewers while there. It's a huge difference. If you want to argue that they didn't collude to throw the games or they didn't agree to split the pot... whatever. Hopefuly evidence will come to light and this will get sorted out one way or the other. But to defend them for fucking around is just silly. Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 15:39 achan1058 wrote:
I just came from the SC2 forums, so I don't know about the game. Still, if they want to save their best strats, can't they do something that's standard, or at least not particularly ground breaking? Like an equivalent of a 4 gate in SC2, instead of a probe rush or a monobattle? That's what the games other than the ARAM were. Nobody did anything new or ground breaking, just very standard stuff, which is what they should have done in the first game too.
When I believe Fnatic and SK qualified for Dreamhack in Season 1 SK played all western skins. With like Outback Renekton, the cowboy Cassiopeia skin, and others that I can't remember. Because that game didn't matter, it was just for seeding.
When CLG was playing for 5th/6th at Dreamhack they played jungle Gangplank and shit. You can argue that somehow these games matter more because they're the finals of a tournament but in the grand scheme of things those games didn't matter at all.
If I was on either team I wouldn't have a given a shit about those finals either. Judging by the reactions of the crowd, Deman's commentating, and even Riot employees, a lot of people thought it was fun. A lot of people enjoyed seeing it.
If you want to argue that ARAM was unprofessional or silly of them that's cool. But I don't see a problem with teams dicking around in games that don't even matter.
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