EPTEven if not, though, I think the nice AS bonus his ult gives, alongside his tankiness, make him a pretty good choice for an autoattacking AP bruiser, of which there are sorely few in my opinion.
[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 28
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Even if not, though, I think the nice AS bonus his ult gives, alongside his tankiness, make him a pretty good choice for an autoattacking AP bruiser, of which there are sorely few in my opinion. | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
I figure if he's chasing the jungler, he can get all the souls from camps, but also go to lanes frequently, get the laner to push (preferably after a profitable gank), and collect. Likely to fall behind on levels really quickly if things don't start out well and also means you have to have a 1v2 lane so probably AD carry mid or top. Bot Lane AD Sion, Dr Mundo, Poppy, w/ strong support. All assassin comp. Throwing out those ideas for consideration. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 08 2013 11:20 Ketara wrote: Do we have a schedule for tomorrow? I am eager to knooooow. The schedule is always posted the day of. We'll meet at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) as per usual. Whether we do inhouses or ranked or multiple teams will be determined by number of researchers present as always. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Basically what sticks out looking at her kit is her W, Denting Blows: (Passive): Every 3rd attack on the same target deals additional physical damage equal to a percentage of the target's maximum health, reduces its armor by 20% and grants Vi bonus attack speed for 4 seconds. Denting Blows deals a maximum of 300 damage against minions and monsters. this skill is pretty nuts. At max its 10% max health, 50% AS, 20% armor reduction, plus 1% health every 35 bonus ad every third hit. The idea is to see how vi-able (ha ha) it is to use this as your main damage source. Basically build extremely tanky with some AS and still smack people with 10%+ of their max health all the time and remain a damage threat, especially against tanks while softening them for the rest of your team. Vi's passive also heavily synergizes with a ton of health. At level 12 you get a free shield for 10% max health every 8 seconds, which with warmogs and shit is a fucking legendary amount. Your core would be extreme tank, warmogs, randuins, frozen mallet (actually not a terrible efficiency item), maybe locket or bulwark situationally. For the AS Zephyr seems like your best option, the tenacity allows you to build zerkers safely. Crit is unnatractive in this build as the bonus damage from denting blows cannot crit. Other than that, Wits is alright if you face magic damage, and maybe just another stinger or zeal. Youmuu's is also potentially good, but it only lasts 6 seconds, which I dont like. Last whisper is another good item, as you are basically playing Elise style with % health damage. CDR is actually pretty good because it effects the charge reload of your E skill, which is an auto reset, essentially giving you free AS. Anyway I'm going to go actually try it. The thing is the skills. W scales poorly, so its really hard to validate leveling it over Q or E. Q scales from bonus AD though, which is going to be low/nonexistant in this build, so I'll try R>E>W>Q. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
The skill order I used was WQE R>Q>W>E. The thing about E is you get a very meager amount of flat bonus damage from skilling it up. Even though W isn't particularly stellar, with Stinger you don't really need the resets as much. Mana is also a very rare issue since there's little reason to go wild spamming E in the jungle. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 08 2013 16:36 Seuss wrote: My standard Vi build since the beginning has been Spirit Stone -> Stinger -> Mallet -> Tanky. I can certify that it works. The skill order I used was WQE R>Q>W>E. The thing about E is you get a very meager amount of flat bonus damage from skilling it up. Even though W isn't particularly stellar, with Stinger you don't really need the resets as much. Mana is also a very rare issue since there's little reason to go wild spamming E in the jungle. Well I tried it and I think AD Stone bruta damage core with whatever mogs or locket feels much stronger (xj9 style). Maxing Q is good, but I would never max W over E. The reduced charge CD plus increased jungle speed is huge. You dont even get to stick on people for more than one proc early anyway, and W gets better the more health people have, so later game. W benefit from leveling is even far worse than E. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 08 2013 16:36 Seuss wrote: My standard Vi build since the beginning has been Spirit Stone -> Stinger -> Mallet -> Tanky. I can certify that it works. The skill order I used was WQE R>Q>W>E. The thing about E is you get a very meager amount of flat bonus damage from skilling it up. Even though W isn't particularly stellar, with Stinger you don't really need the resets as much. Mana is also a very rare issue since there's little reason to go wild spamming E in the jungle. You don't get the phage before stinger anymore? Since stinger is 1250 without any suvivability I like to get phage earlier so I don't stay squishy too long. I also don't upgrade machete, she doesn't need it to instaclear (except on buffs but she's still blazing fast) so it's 400 gold toward nothing but regens. A problem with going zerkers -> stinger is that you have no survivability at all. Using Vi's W (which scales fine really, going from 6 to 10% and 30 -> 50% AS isn't bad at all, especially if you build tanky and won't benefit from the AD scaling that much) relies on staying alive to keep proc-ing it. Zephyr being a 2400 gold item, it's pretty harsh on you. I like Monte's approach of getting Tabi instead more, since you take far less damage, especially early on when jungling and ganking. Leveling W before E makes you stronger when taking objectives. You also don't care as much about bursting people down since you don't build that much AD in the first place when playing Vi tanky, so having one more reset/0.15 additional AD ratio won't grant you a kill. Hitting somebody while you have phage or red buff should also allow you to get those procs, and with the trend of going HP over armour having W maxed by the midgame actually makes you pretty scary, while still being hard to kill. Obviously, if you can effectively catch people a full damage build à la Xj9 is better since it lets you kill people instead of just sending them running and you'll get fed enough to have your warmogs by the time teams group and teamfights start, but this defeats the purpose of relying on W for damage (I still don't know if it's the W ratio or the double E ratio that bursts the hardest when he blow people up). | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Perhaps I should have skipped that Atma's and Negatron, going straight FMallet and maybe something like Hydra or Zephyr. Perhaps I should have upgraded my Machete as well. Single target clear speed felt fast enough that I didn't really want for Razor/Wriggle, but Elder Lizard seems pretty good with AD/CDR/true damage. Maybe not Ancient Golem, since I'd likely be getting FMallet and have E for health. Still not sure about his carrying potential, even Volibear feels stronger as a jungler to me, but it's possible that I just haven't hit the right item build/skill build/mastery/rune setup yet. And no more AP Sion testing, that playstyle is totally balls. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 08 2013 17:43 sob3k wrote: Well I tried it and I think AD Stone bruta damage core with whatever mogs or locket feels much stronger (xj9 style). Maxing Q is good, but I would never max W over E. The reduced charge CD plus increased jungle speed is huge. You dont even get to stick on people for more than one proc early anyway, and W gets better the more health people have, so later game. W benefit from leveling is even far worse than E. I don't have problems sticking to people because at the point where you have Elder Lizard + Brutalizer I have Stinger + Phage, with Mallet soon after. I have to get pretty unlucky on Phage procs to fail sticking to someone. I actually don't find E particularly faster than W for clearing the jungle, assuming you max Q first. The biggest time sink, especially post-health redistribution, has always been the big creeps. W is better than E for taking them down, easily. With the XJ9 build E first is obviously better as you haven't invested in attack speed and you have significant AD to benefit from additional resets, but that's a function of the build. W first is better in my case because I haven't invested all that much in AD. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Official testing begins at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). If you cannot be present by the appointed time then come whenever you can. We'll be testing so long as we have researchers and working servers, so it will continue for many hours and into the night presuming there is interest. All testing will be coordinated from the TROLLS chat channel and through TeamLiquid's TeamSpeak. We will have multiple test groups and/or in-houses depending on the number of people present. As it is unlikely that the number of researchers will be an exact multiple of 5, one or more groups may sortie with unsuspecting pubs. I will stream all tests that I am a part of at http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol. Details: AP Duo Lanes: The great success we had with this idea last week is spurring on further research. Rather than simply as a counter to bruisers and AD casters/assassins mid, this idea can work against traditional compositions as well. This week we'll be testing different AP champions (e.g. Teemo, Kayle, Annie, Xerath) and possibly different 1v2 champions as we continue to investigate its viability. Pseudo AD Carries: Pseudo AD carries were not tested last week. The concept is slightly incompatible with other testing, but we may return to it if we have the opportunity. Again, we will be testing ranged bruisers (Urgot, Nidalee, Jax, etc.) and/or bruiser-built AD carries (Graves, Draven, Vayne, etc.). Options include but are not limited to the champions listed in parentheticals. Support Zilean: Zilean has potential as a support, particularly with a pseudo-carry whose only issue is closing distances. This should work as well with some of our AP Duos as it does with champions as Jayce or Thresh. Nami Jungle Bug Exploitation: Provided this bug is still in place (I have been preoccupied with jungle Nasus, and have not checked) we could employ Nami to set up a ranged jungler's first clear. This would work best with certain AP junglers, or ranged AD carry junglers. There's the potential to do this as a part of any of our tests, provided we take Nami as our support. The other duo laner would need to be prepared to fend for themselves for a small time as Nami sets up camps. Sadly, a number of ideas are somewhat dependent on upcoming changes (e.g. the Smite/Spectral Wraith combo), and others have received plenty of testing already (AP Tryndamere opening, jungle Nasus). As a result we'll have fewer testing options today than in previous weeks, but the work we'll be doing is still important. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 09 2013 05:33 mordek wrote: Who would be the ideal AD to pair with Zilean? Should pick Skarner jungle with support Zil. It's fucking hilarimazing. (As a bonus, run Jayce top or AD.) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 09 2013 05:33 mordek wrote: Who would be the ideal AD to pair with Zilean? There are a couple good choices I've seen. Cait is nice because you can link her long range with his sprint for good poking, and Peacemaker + Bombs are great sieging and pushing power. Kog/Vayne/Trist with his ult for obvious reasons, especially Trist because she jumps in, dies, gets an assist, Zil revives her with jump back up. Draven or Urgot could work well, I think, being lane bully status. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
(Zilean/Twitch could actually be a pretty scary kill lane combo considering the amount of burst they can provide at level 3 assuming QEQ from Zil and something like EWE from Twitch.) | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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