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On August 05 2012 13:45 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:09 Bladeorade wrote:
Don't pick Kayle into Pantheon. Easy as that lol. Pantheon trucks AD carries which is what Kayle is.
Worst case scenario push lane as hard as you can as much as you can and roam. But pantheon's ult fucks that too. Lol I was dumb and picked Kayle while they still had two picks left. Only had like 3-4 top champs and wanted to have some fun. Also I see ppl doing this funky all AS build running D-Blade-less Malady/Wit's End/Nashor's etc. While I almost always get Wit's End, I don't know about Malady/Tooth. Rather spend that on a quicker cleaver/IE/Trifoce. Seem's interesting though.
When I saw Dyrus running Kayle in the last tournament I watched(i cant even remember, gigabyte invitational i think?) he was going like zeal ie pd with 2dblades, or something like that
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Dont get wits if your going AD. Delays your power too much. If yiurbuilding bruiser its fine but bruiser kayle falls off. AD kayle doesnt
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I think part of this is just me getting better as a player, but I've gone from a 45% win rate to a 60% win rate in ranked as kayle. She's my most played champion and she seems like such a consistently strong top laner and jungler. At least at lower ELOs she seems like a really good bully in top laner, and a decently strong early ganker in the jungle.
I found I was also able to bully people as AD sion top but lost a lot of midgame fights.
I've played Jax top but although he has kill potential, I still don't feel safe first picking him and don't feel like I can get free damage on people in engages.
I just don't have these problems with Kayle.
In the jungle I prefer twitch's ganks but he can't farm as quickly to keep up in levels so he doesn't get bursted as easily. Also if there are no gankable lanes he can't keep up with the enemy jungler's farm.
I prefer udyr and mundo's tankiness but find their ganks lacking.
Kayle just provides a lot of what I want.
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About to play Udyr vs Kayle from the Udyr side for the first time, lets see how this goes huehue
Well I was fine until Skarner camped top because the enemy bot lane was destroying ours and our jungle Jarvan decided to camp bot but go 0/13 rofl. Oh well happens sometimes
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http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/21233-pbe-patch-rengar-katarina-rework-garen-changes
Seriously kayle buff? I have a current 60% win ratio over my entire career as her and probably closer to 65/70 over the last 20 games. Kayle is fine. As is teemo in top lane. I hope this doesn't get her nerfed. They do well in the bruiser top meta.
To break this down, .4 means that every point of AP is equal to .4 AD as long as E is on. Except the AP splashes and deals magic damage which is better than physical damage. The AP does not scale off crit damage or crit strike, or armor pen which kayles build. But with something like triforce kayle will now deal 6 more magic splash damage on each attack. Maybe a gain of 200 gold. Nashors is still bad. Rageblade would also stack more damage.
Overall if kayle want's single target magic damage with some tankiness she can go on hit.
If she wants squishy aoe magic damage with better spells she should go AP/hybrid.
If she wants to scale well in terms of physical damage she should still go AD. The splash damage still scales well off AD.
If she wants to support her team of 3/4 autoattackers she can still go bruisery and aura.
1 AD is ~ 2 AP in gold but deathcap makes AP slightly better but by the time deathcap is around crit scaling should have taken place.
This also opens up malady and makes hybrid/ap kayle a much better burster and laner. She's already a big lane bully as it is.
I think there are many ways to play kayle, you just have to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each.
Also shame on you for betraying kayle bladeorade!
Also the garen rework changes the matchup a bit. Before the best way for garen to get close if kayle kept brush control was to q at her, then E as soon as he got slowed if he was close enough to catch up on Q's speed boost. Now he can Q as soon as the slow lands. In addition garen's W is imo better (it was a bad skill before this change compared to other tank builds, in fact garen's kit was outdated) and still provides the slow reduction if he uses it before your Q. You want to hit Q on him after he Q's. If he has shield and merc treads the cc reduc is 30% and 35% combined together which is still pretty large. I don't know how this will change the garen kayle matchup but I suspect it won't be the same as it was before.
Since kayle's Q and W still have relic mana costs you may want boots 5 to help you run away.
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No one picks garen versus kayle right now. Alll this kayle "buff" will do is promote more bad ap and hybrid kayle players
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On August 11 2012 04:06 Bladeorade wrote:
No one picks garen versus kayle right now. Alll this kayle "buff" will do is promote more bad ap and hybrid kayle players
I don't know why people pick bruisers into kayle at all. It just happens, and often people are surprised when I jungle or go top.
I don't think I've ever built rageblade on kayle. I'll definitely try hybrid and then straight AP when the change goes through.
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See? Lol. Exactly what I said. Will promote more bad AP and Hybrid Kayle players.
Though I guess I should try it myself since I created this thread so I should know exactly what it's like
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On August 11 2012 08:28 Bladeorade wrote:
See? Lol. Exactly what I said. Will promote more bad AP and Hybrid Kayle players.
Though I guess I should try it myself since I created this thread so I should know exactly what it's like
Fuck you lol.
Thanks for at least trying it as well.
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Tbh though I dont really want to try it in ranked and I tend to dominate the normal level I'm in so idk how accurate my tests willlll be
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Ow jayce hurts.
I mean I know that he's good since I played him last week, but he trades really well with 6 damaging abilities. I know his combo too. Like he's going to try to go hammer and jump on you, use his aoe, and then knock you away and run into brush and you'll be so far away you can't catch him. Or he'll use the same combo except with the ranged abilities too. It felt like I could fight him on occasions but he was the stronger champion.
Shaco lane ganks didn't help but they put us on even footing as Diana did a weird ass lane gank where the lane was frozen outside my tower and we got a kill :D
After a lot of thinking I think the best way to beat jayce is to try to dodge his Q. His Q is targeted but hits an area so I think it can be dodged. If it is, then you can slow him for a short duration, and try to kite him with phage or chase him back a bit. His best bet at this point if his ult is off cooldown is to go back in cannon form, where hopefully if you have some anti autoattack items, you can beat him in trades. I was able to proc phage on him a number of times and get him low in my game to force him back but he forced me back more often. Also I don't think jayce is that bad midgame though he has no game changing ult the sheer number of his abilities is still good.
Jayce is just so versatile that it's hard to figure out a way to beat him. I don't think Q can be dodged. Perhaps it'd be best to get a bilgewater for guaranteed slow. bonus damage in trades and the lifesteal to stay in lane.
I don't think jayce is beatable in lane. I guess I'll try to be less aggressive in the future. Just not used to that. Then hopefully mid game I'll be playing a more useful champion than him. His attack speed buff is less noticeable late game and the closest thing he has to a game changing move or ult is his knockback if he hits your ADC into his team.
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I just watched a game of olimarand louie. It was kayle vs jayce. This matchup is quite common nowadays when you look at the spectated games. Honestly, this was the definition of win lane win game. Kayle went double dorans serks into stinger and jayce went double dorans phage.
Since attack speed is the cheapest stat early game for dps obviously kayle had more damage so she had this one scenario where she won the exchange, jax stunned him, and the rest was just kayle being her team's highest midgame dps with malady stinger. Personally I think he should have gotten stinger second after malady if at all.
Now since attack speed doesn't stack as well on itself as many other things onhit and ap damage tends to fall off. This didn't matter considering he was at least 3k up on gold compared to jayce. Who cares about scaling when you have 50% more gold than someone.
Kayle ended up 12-5 literally carrying her team's midgame with AoE damage.
I'm just gonna go on a binge where I go the most snowbally stuff I can. I normally don't build dorans. The only time I've done so recently was on tristana bot and even then I often just get phage instead. I remember doing on hit build kayle earlier and I commented on how it wasn't good late game when I wanted to kill an entire team and carry with aoe damage. I'll just suck it up. I also had a string of games where I played AP sion mid and made like 3 enemy mids rage quit. That was hilarious. Enemy team constantly whining in all chat. I stopped doing it because I faced an annie who just played safe and didn't die to me and then I fell off later.
Screw strategy or late game or item efficiency. 6 pool to masters.
I'm betting people have no idea what kayle's strengths or weaknesses are in an even game. They just know she's a lane bully who beats many other lane bullies.
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I just tried it out. Malady, 2x doran, mercs, ionic, wits, and I would have gotten a madred br too if time had allowed it. I beat GP top hard and only got successfully ganked once (I think malphite flashed into the lane brush or I just missed him going into it this one time). Mercs helps more than the attack speed because as I'd mentioned before too much aspd doesn't work well.
I carried pretty hard. My team was losing and I had my teams only three kills early on, none of them kses. I had ignite just to win my lane harder.
Ended up 8-3.
I ended with 197 cs and my lane opponent, the gp, ended up 1-8 with 139 minions (I left lane too much).
Before the game started I also looked up my lane opponent to see if he mained gp. He didn't.
Honestly, I felt like a walking fiddle ult. But I did feel like I fell off too. This strategy shouldn't be this effective.
Teemo does even more damage. He just doesn't have the slow tacked on unless they hit his shrooms. And his damage is single target.
Oh and interesting to note, true damage and magic damage hit through teemo's blinds.
Eh. Gotta know when to play a farm lane and when to play a harass lane :p. Went 3-0 vs yorick the next game but spent too much time harassing and he healed back with manamune and outcsed me.
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I don't think Kayle can really survive top against beasts like Rengar/Jayce/Irelia. Tbh, I really see Kayle as more of a jungler now.
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On September 29 2012 07:04 HughMyron wrote:
I don't think Kayle can really survive top against beasts like Rengar/Jayce/Irelia. Tbh, I really see Kayle as more of a jungler now.
Kayle does fine vs Jayce and Irelia but Rengar smokes her with his superb bush control. Irelia can be beat early and Kayle can keep up on damage later.
Its the jump + CC and burst combinations that fuck kayle. Rengar can slow Kayle while unloading his burst in under a second. Irelia can jump but she can be kited. Jayce is just a farm lane and they both scale very well.
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Kayle is now +0.4 Righteous Fury so it makes more sense to go ap than ad.
I find Nashor's tooth to be one of the core items now(boots->nashor).
Allows you to have Righteous Fury on non-stop(with good runes/masteries).
Also your ulti will be available really often.
Makes up for attack speed that would be given by phantom dancer(Note: you don't necessary need movement speed boost since it will be granted by Divine Blessing).
Also gives precious mana regen.
Skill choice:
E-W-Q-E-E-R ; R>E>W>Q
Reckoning(Q), although stacks well with both damage and power is not really needed early since it's cooldown does not decrease upon leveling and slow % is same aswell.
Kayle: high damage lane pusher, healer, mass creeper, fast speed, invulnerability ... really crazy hero(one of my favorites)
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On October 12 2012 08:15 LastWish wrote:
Kayle is now +0.4 Righteous Fury so it makes more sense to go ap than ad.
Also your ulti will be available really often.
A .4 AP ratio is still at least comparable to a 1.0 AD ratio.
AP
- magic damage
- AP items
- deathcap provides the 30% AP boost
- there are lots of great AP items
- option for more cdr
- more uptime on spells (damage amp, slow, speed boost, and ranged form)
- better abilities
- burst and heal
- better splash damage
AD
- more single target ad damage
- AD items
- IE and PD provide crit scaling and crit damage scaling
- You have the option to build bruiser with items like phage and maw
- lifesteal
As for kayle' ulti uptime, Kayle's ult is always on such a short cooldown that it will almost always be up from one fight to the next. Having 10% cdr doesn't do anything for it early on. There are several situations where late game lvl 16+, Kayle will be able to use two shields in a single long drawn out fight with 40% cdr. 24 seconds vs 40 is a big difference. Once a fight has died down though, and people start dying and using their ults, dps drops. Kayle's ult is strongest when it blocks a lot of dps so the second ult usually isn't as strong.
I still like her as a bruiser.
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Ok Im new, I dont know how to play Top, and kayle is really awkward to play with. Her kiting is really fucked up when she switched back and forth from pseudo-ranged to melee, and her pathing has got to be the most awkward of all the heroes. Time and time again I find her stuck behind some minions trying to figure out which way to go.
Shes really really squishy too :/
I guess Ill have to wait till lvl30 and get runes for final verdict :/
Bought garen after losing 5 games straight with kayle just to stick out top lane. Turns out garen suits my style more atm :/
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Seriously I think if you have StarCraft APM skillz then AP Kayle should be for you.
Never forget that you can cast on yourself using alt so alt+W and even atl+R will be used alot.
Focus on E and you should dominate most laners, use alt+W when you need to hit and run a difficult/fast opponent - seriously kite him.
After initial items boots + 3 health potions you should go either Stinger(if you have 1000+ gold) or upgrade boots +25% attack speed.
I prefer having Teleport + Flash, so that I don't lose any start XP time while buying items and later on I may easily cash creep lanes where needed + support team.
Kayle does not need Ignite, you can catch up your opponent anytime with W and Q, plus you can kill enemy near tower with R + Flash to withdraw.
As I already wrote going Nashor is core and after that I suggest going Hextech Revolver or Rageblade.
Hextech Gunblade is nice but I consider it more of a lategame item(because the price is rather high) and Revolver is easy to get and easy to profit from.
If you have spare money go for example Trinity before Gunblade.
Further items are up to your consideration.
As for runes and masteries, I focus on attack speed runes.
Masteries points are spent mostly on utility but also some into offense so you get +10% cooldown reduction and +3% spell vamp. The rest is up to your consideration.
You can go blue golem aura on your own at about 7 lvl with lvl 4 Fury and then spam W. But due to the runes/masteries/nashor you don't rely on blue's cooldown reduction and should be fine most of the time with your mana.
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So I've been playing a lot of games as Kayle and one thing I always noticed was a low KDA. I didn't think it was because I had no damage. I felt rather that I had little range and not enough kiting ability. So I decided to do something I've never done outside a bot game. I rushed frozen mallet. Kayle has enough damage from a maxed E to clear creeps at a respectful pace without any damage items.
When I rushed phage people would take a few hits but I wouldn't have enough damage to make use of the slow.
With mallet however my slow was consistent enough to chase and scare people off from me. My team only had one exhaust and one other strong slow in fizz's R so I felt the ranged slow was very useful. I'm going to try building frozen mallet more in the future.
Mallet costs 3250 but provides 2627 gold of combat stats. I used a pickaxe for damage efficiency in gold. Obviously I could be wrong and 200 gold of HP could be worth 300 gold of AD in terms of combat strength but I'm not going to go in depth enough to make the distinction. 622 gold goes to the passive.
Triforce's combat stats add up to a cost of 3822 gold. The item costs 4200. That means 378 gold goes to the passive sheen proc, slow, movespeed, and mana. Triforce is definitely a stronger dueling item than mallet by cost. Just the sheen proc alone is about 1 free auto after every spaced out spell in terms of damage. But so many champs are so easy to kite that I just have to trade off the combat efficiency for the consistent slow. Rely on superior game sense to not get into fights I can't win.
TL:DR Trying out phage. It works nice. May start using it as a first item.
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EPT
