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On December 08 2012 00:31 Keniji wrote:
Frozen Heart or Iceborn Gauntlet? Iceborn Gauntlet seems like an good item for cho as he benefits from everything, but frozen heart pretty good, too.
Why gauntlet when you can rylais? You don't get all that much benefit from sheen and FH is strictly better, but if you're debating about fitting it into your build, just get a rylais instead.
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On December 15 2012 20:31 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 20:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
So, I've been having success with Cho in the new jungle pretty consistently, but I've never found a build I've been 100% happy with.
I usually open machete with four health pot and 1 mana pot, and typically back with enough to grab spirit stone, boots, and a flask (~1k). After that I've tried a couple of different things, but I'm not sure I like the tanky spirit stone upgrade - it grants hp, armour, and tenacity, which is great, but it makes me want to grab mercs for MR but nope, tenacity, so I usually grab tabi and something like a negatron or chalice early.
Later on, I think it's not too hard to hit a good mix of 40% cdr and tankiness if I pick between rylais or bulwark and not both, but the early phases are throwing me off a bit. Any suggestions? Nope seems good to me. What masteries do you use? I'm really not sure if wanderer is worth it, but thats not only for jungle cho but for other heros/roles as well
I've been running AD : Armour : Mr / level : MS runes, and 2 (Butcher) : 24 (a lot) : 4 (wanderer + insight) for masteries. It feels better than most other things I've tried, but I don't have Attack Speed runes.
If I'm aiming to hit 40% cdr (or close to it), what would you guys recommend for items? Frozen Heart feels awkward after a Tabi + Tankyspirit thing opening because of resistance imbalance, so I usually grab it last after Rylais and Athenes, but it still feels like I'm getting some redundancy there. Have people played with Spirit Visage in the new jungle on cho yet? I might experiment with it instead of spirit stone today and see how that goes.
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I feel going glacial shroud early is so good on him. I dont usually upgrade the spirit stone until much later and tend to get mobo boots on him tho, so i need the armor anyway. I tend to build more tanky and less damage in the jungle and just be a huge CC bot, occasionally eating people. I tend to get aegis/bulwark and glacial shroud as fast as possible, then go from there, abyssal often being the first real AP item i get.
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just bought me some cho and I can finally go mid lane. 2 years of doing everything but mid and I can finally do it. gogogo cho!
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What do you guys think about GP10 items for cho? My first item on my way back from jungling is usually a philo stone - usually that ends up satisfying my mana requirements, I then can get a kindlegem for CDR (typically build into spirit visage) instead of needing glacial shroud and FH. Follow that up with a Wits End (seems like this item was made for cho). After the wits end I usually just tank him out more - try to make myself impossible to kill after getting feast stacks up.
I start with machete for jungle but always end up selling it (usually on my second trip back to the shop) rather than build into a spirit stone, - cho doesn't need the extra damage against monsters after his E gets a few points.
I've never tried a Rylais on cho, will give that a shot next game. Does cho's E proc Rylais? Or is it just more for making his silence and nom slow?
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rylai is ofc a great item, but do u really need the slow? i dont know. I usually get Roa because of the mana boost. But with frozen heart next thats kinda stupid i guess... hm.
And philo is kinda a waste. if you get machete anyway you can upgrade it into spirit stone and have better regen/faster jungle clearing. Shurelya on cho, i dont know.. maybe. Its definitely not bad, depends on what the sup is getting.
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I'm not certain that I'd trade the slow for more mana, especially when it makes the (optional flash) -> silence -> rupture -> feast combo impossible to dodge.
Personally, I upgrade spirit stone, what is the point in SELLING a machete?
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@5hit Do you harass a lot in lane with silence? I tend to run oom pretty quickly doing this and I notice you don't build anything as far as mana regen goes. Are you pretty passive unless you have blue?
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It depends which lane I'm in, I max e a lot in top lane now, but generally I harass whenever I feel like it'll do something to them and I don't harass when I think it won't do anything to them. In mid lane scream does like 1/4 of their hp and it can keep them playing pretty safe (depending on matchup) and sometimes set them up for kills so I use it to harass when they come in for creeps and let them know that they're gonna be eating a scream and possibly more when they come in to cs. This lets me bully the lane around a bit (depending on matchup) and freefarm, which gives you a little sustain. Because cho has such ridiculous health recovery when you last hit well you can trade a lot more freely with auto/e. I generally stop harassing so much if I'm saving up for a scream rupture ignite auto/e/flash/feast kill or I think my jungler is coming in a bit. I'm starting to like chalice a lot more but it really sets your power curve behind a bit so you have to make the judgement of whether starting to ramp up a little later and possibly at a point where your opponents can deal with a rylais on you is worth having mana all the time. Sometimes it will be, sometimes it won't be, but usually if I go chalice I end up delaying or skipping rylais entirely.
But yeah, if I expect to get blue buffs, and I do, I still do standard rush merc -> rylais and spam harass. Learning the finer points of harassing and farming at the same time is pretty big on Cho, using e when you last hit to harass champ, screaming for the last hit/harass, knowing how to trade with a champ in creeps so you'll end up triggering your passive, etc.
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HOLD ON THOUGH
I JUST HAD THIS EPIPHANY
What if instead of Rylais I go Rod FF????
TESTING BRB
(which is exactly what i have been being told) lol
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The only problem I have with FF is that it procs on autoattacks rather than having scream slow from rylai's to set up your combo.
On a sidenote, how should the Cho v Kat matchup go? Its reaaaally obnoxious how she gets a cute speed boost to make landing your rupture damn near impossible to land when she comes in to harass.
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Yeah FF isn't worth it, you're tankier with rod but utility-wise you have to flash in to get procs off reliably. Just go Rylais imo.
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I like the concept of Jungle Cho. But whenever I do go Jungle Cho I feel like I need to go support/tank items like sight stone or Aegis which means no CDR. Then having to use Feast on targets just to get damage in instead of for last hit on minions. Meaning I'm a tiny Cho most of the game which sucks.
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huh? Why would you get sightstone with cho? support should get that, same with aegis. You already have so much utility with the 2 AOE ccs. Frozen heart makes you tanky, gives you mana, CDR(!) and another utility. Your team should appreciate that. Also, you can get a shurelia if needed so the sup can buy something else.
aegis and especially sightstone is a huge waste on cho imho
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On December 22 2012 16:40 Hyren wrote:
The only problem I have with FF is that it procs on autoattacks rather than having scream slow from rylai's to set up your combo.
On a sidenote, how should the Cho v Kat matchup go? Its reaaaally obnoxious how she gets a cute speed boost to make landing your rupture damn near impossible to land when she comes in to harass.
whenever she comes to kill ur minions, scream her and subsequently rupture her; that'll do a hefty chunk of dmg. You cant just rupture up immediately
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Sightstone is a really good item on Cho, depending on enemy jungler you definitely might want to get it before finishing your first big item. Aegis is a great, but not the only option; Locket of the Iron Solari is very good on Cho'Gath as well (and on everyone else too). Shurelyas is a viable 2nd item I guess, I don't really like it on Cho though, who is more of a defensive teamfighter rather than an initiator.
You just can't afford to not use your ultimate on creeps early. It makes you weaker in the short run, but those HPs are really important and you want to have 6 stacks before you get level11 for certain. So just feast them wraiths :3
CDR on Cho is nice-ish, but survivability comes first. Frozen Heart might be viable in the extreme lategame, but probably not before. Not to mention that with a bit of regen you shouldn't need so much extra mana anyways.
btw. trust me not anyone else. Duh!
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Yep should just say fuck it if my lanes won't get wards they're dead to me and build CDR. Shurelya's Reverie is also not as good as it used to be and is something I keep forgetting with Locket being the better tanky item. Same with feasting since I'm screwing myself over my trying to help lanes so much and that messes up mid-late game fights.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
What? That is a terrible piece of advice if it was intended as such. You are a jungler, of course you are supposed to help lanes and gank them and ward for them, especially middle lane. It's not just that middle laner's gold is more important, you are also able to ward deeper in the enemy jungle, because mid has other responsibilities (like pushing middle lane).
The difference between gold and feast cooldown is that they are separate and should be treated differently (for example, you can't store feast cd unlike gold) and exactly because of that feasting a creep asap is (almost) always the safer play. There is no way you should draw a parallel between the 2.
That is ignoring the fact that CDR isn't even THAT awesome on Cho'Gath. I mean yes it's good, but your W and Q cooldowns aren't as important as you might think; it's the first Scream and Rupture in the teamfight that is the most important and you want to be as tanky as you can to place them properly.
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I still ward on all junglers I just won't get sight stone as often. Just the juggling growing Cho with feast on monsters and helping securing kills with Feast seems tough without some CDR as even when ganks with Feast are successful Cho is unlikely to get the last hit with Feast.
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If you are having a hard time getting feast stacks with Cho you need to change your prioritizing a little bit. You can make your own choices. Like, sometimes you have the option between:
ganking and feasting for damage and getting a kill
or
feasting a minion and ganking just to apply pressure and get them out of lane
There are situations where you will want to do one, and situations where you will want to do the other. I'm going out on a limb and assuming that you have free will, so make your own decisions for the game flow. Like, don't keep feasting for damage if you only have two stacks and it's obvious you're not getting to 6 if you keep doing what you're doing. Plan to be useful at all stages of the game.
Also, feasting stuff like buffs and dragons to secure them is a pretty easy way to get stacks and you really should be doing that anyway.
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EPT
