EPT[Champion] Cho'Gath - Page 11
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NucNac
Germany64 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On September 22 2012 16:53 NucNac wrote: I think Rylais is good, but as sylverfyre said, resistance is a little bit nicer than flat health and Rylais will only give you the 15% slow. I will try it out, but Chalice seems so good as an midgame item for Cho in midlane. why not forgo Doran's (you don't really need the health), get a Chalice, then rush Rylai's and get Athene's sometime later? I really like Chalice too, it's insanely useful in teamfights and in lane to 24/7 spam your shit. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
Chalice is a generally horrible item IMOIMOIMO. So much money spent on mana regen, when FH is so good on him and you can always get a philo stone =/ | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Grail is sounding more and more interesting as a replacement for Abyssal now, gotta go test! | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On September 23 2012 05:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Yeah, but when you're mid you really don't want to be building FH as a core item, and Grail gives a lot of stuff you want. I'm not saying it's good for sure, but opening Chalice doesn't seem too bad, especially because it gives you a bit of MR (and I've been rushing merc anyway). I think philo is pretty good but I don't build it mid very often unless I get a kill REALLY early because I generally don't build it into anything. Grail is sounding more and more interesting as a replacement for Abyssal now, gotta go test! Please report, I've been mildly successful with the build, but I'm still sort of learning how to mid Cho. I figured it was good because the combination of AP/CDR/MR/Manaregen is literally EVERYTHING you want on Cho, even though it is pricey. Opening Grail is probably not the best of ideas, but as already stated, no one is forced to rush it. Chalice is really good for the gold already, and it makes rushing Rylai's all the easier for inexperienced Chos like me because I don't have to be conservative with the mana. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On September 23 2012 05:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Yeah, but when you're mid you really don't want to be building FH as a core item, and Grail gives a lot of stuff you want. I'm not saying it's good for sure, but opening Chalice doesn't seem too bad, especially because it gives you a bit of MR (and I've been rushing merc anyway). I think philo is pretty good but I don't build it mid very often unless I get a kill REALLY early because I generally don't build it into anything. Grail is sounding more and more interesting as a replacement for Abyssal now, gotta go test! Yea, you don't really want to rush FH as a core item, but late game it's great to have and the mana regen aspect of Grail will be worthless+some of the CDR wasted. I'd much rather just get a philo+null magic instead of a chalice in mid lane. That can build into mercs, and if you need more MR, you can grab a negatron-->FoN/Abyssal or more null magics-->Wit's End/Aegis/GA. Philo can be built into shurelya's or sold when you get glacial shroud. I suppose Grail is viable if you don't want to go FH for whatever reason, but then you won't want to get either FoN or Abyssal, which are both amazing... | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On September 23 2012 05:43 APurpleCow wrote: Yea, you don't really want to rush FH as a core item, but late game it's great to have and the mana regen aspect of Grail will be worthless+some of the CDR wasted. I'd much rather just get a philo+null magic instead of a chalice in mid lane. That can build into mercs, and if you need more MR, you can grab a negatron-->FoN/Abyssal or more null magics-->Wit's End/Aegis/GA. Philo can be built into shurelya's or sold when you get glacial shroud. I suppose Grail is viable if you don't want to go FH for whatever reason, but then you won't want to get either FoN or Abyssal, which are both amazing... Abyssal is great and FoN is probably always the better choice if they run double AP, but getting an early Chalice just has a much smoother build progression compared to Philo+NMM (which costs about 300g more, btw), and it does offer a lot more mana regen. The thing about Grail is that you literally use every.single.stat on it. You won't make use of the magic penetration aura of Abyssal when landing long range ruptures or while feasting, while Grail offers similar stats and makes prolonged fights THAT much easier. I have come to love it, but I guess it's a matter of playstyle. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
Still, the mana regen aspect is worthless if you get an FH. If it's a game where I wasn't going for FH for whatever reason, I'll get a Grail from now on so I don't have to hog blue. Unrelated question: Does Void Staff increase DFG's penetration? Saw a Cho'Gath get DFG+Void Staff+Rabadon's in the solomid tournament...I didn't think the items interacted, but I don't know why you'd get Void Staff on him otherwise. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On September 24 2012 01:27 APurpleCow wrote: Unrelated question: Does Void Staff increase DFG's penetration? Saw a Cho'Gath get DFG+Void Staff+Rabadon's in the solomid tournament...I didn't think the items interacted, but I don't know why you'd get Void Staff on him otherwise. as far as i know, DFG interacts with MR like a normal spell, in that an enemy with high MR will take less damage from DFG. following this line of reason, enemies with low MR will take more damage from DFG and it will interact with MPen in a normal fashion. therefor it's logical to conclude that void's MPen will increase DFG's damage | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On September 24 2012 02:15 gtrsrs wrote: as far as i know, DFG interacts with MR like a normal spell, in that an enemy with high MR will take less damage from DFG. following this line of reason, enemies with low MR will take more damage from DFG and it will interact with MPen in a normal fashion. therefor it's logical to conclude that void's MPen will increase DFG's damage this is true. Cow, when do you find yourself getting FH when playing Cho mid? I generally feel the urge to build a good amount of DPS before I even consider getting a Glacial, and usually, I would much rather get funfire if we already have a FH in our team and I want some armor. I just have a hard time justifying to spend much gold on an item that doesn't increase my damage output at all (I cap CDR from other sources) when I take the spot of the AP carry. | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Personally, I'm going to stick with boots 2 -> rylais, but having infinite mana is soooooooooo luxurious. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On September 26 2012 19:16 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I've tried it out a couple of times, and it's amazing how much mana it gives you. You can literally spam spells without having to worry about mana ever. That being said, I still feel like efficient management of mana and maxing R>W>E>Q with Rylais or Deathcap rush is stronger. My nickname is 100% Rupture though. I feel like the point at which I start to snowball comes significantly delayed when I rush Athene's or even Chalice first. I can see it being very useful in certain matchups like Viktor and Xerath where you need both MR and mp5 to survive harass/burst and farm. Personally, I'm going to stick with boots 2 -> rylais, but having infinite mana is soooooooooo luxurious. So basically, unless you are a god at Cho like you are, Chalice into a LATE Athene's might be viable? | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
If I was going chalice I'd mix it with rylais and zhonyas. I imagine mid cho needs to be a lot less rawr rawr I'm a big fucking dinosaur rawr in your face rawr than his top lane incarnation. Basically hup-blaaah-nom-peace. Zhonyas does a better job of assisting that than FH. I also imagine chalice is a lot better against those mids who can lay on the consistent zoning/harass both so you can absorb it and so you can reply in kind without needing to be able to eat all the minions to sustain. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Seriously though, rushing chalice/grail is like getting upgraded to first class from coach. Suddenly you don't have to think about mana management at all and the fun factor of that alone is probably worth it--I just don't think it's the strongest option if you care to manage your mana and your jungler gives you blues. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On September 26 2012 21:22 Complete wrote: Can I get some advice on laning against Mordekaiser? He seems really hard to trade at all with and he has no mana issues unlike Cho. Scream before he gets shield up --> whack him. | ||
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NucNac
Germany64 Posts
On September 26 2012 19:57 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Seriously though, rushing chalice/grail is like getting upgraded to first class from coach. Suddenly you don't have to think about mana management at all and the fun factor of that alone is probably worth it--I just don't think it's the strongest option if you care to manage your mana and your jungler gives you blues. Thats true, but we are in solo queue and like to dunk on people  I think i will stick to chalice/grail mid, in the end it seems to be a choice of playstyle. | ||
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