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[Champion] Cho'Gath - Page 10

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Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-18 06:42:21
September 18 2012 06:34 GMT
#181
Just started playing cho top. Smashes some people real nice. Had trouble vs GP and Mordekaiser so far, but I think I could solve that by starting boots/pots instead of dorans ring. I just really don't like starting without dorans ring becaues of mana issues :/

I often go dorans ring * 2 + philo stone during laning phase just to keep up with mana T_T I've never had so many mana issues with another champ.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 18 2012 08:45 GMT
#182
If you're going top lane, try taking your second point in e and don't use rupture except when ganks come. Also, don't harass with scream until level 4 or until your jungler comes for a gank. It's inefficient to blow 70 or 80 mana on a skill at level 1 even if last hitting regains you mana.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
September 18 2012 22:36 GMT
#183
On September 18 2012 17:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going top lane, try taking your second point in e and don't use rupture except when ganks come. Also, don't harass with scream until level 4 or until your jungler comes for a gank. It's inefficient to blow 70 or 80 mana on a skill at level 1 even if last hitting regains you mana.


errr

It may be inefficient, but by the time you hit level 4 you'd have full mana anyway.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10192 Posts
September 18 2012 23:17 GMT
#184
On September 18 2012 15:34 Complete wrote:
Just started playing cho top. Smashes some people real nice. Had trouble vs GP and Mordekaiser so far, but I think I could solve that by starting boots/pots instead of dorans ring. I just really don't like starting without dorans ring becaues of mana issues :/

I often go dorans ring * 2 + philo stone during laning phase just to keep up with mana T_T I've never had so many mana issues with another champ.

why would u ever start off with ring? where is your sustain? always start boots 3 pots on top laners usually.

mana really shouldnt be a problem. philostone + 2 mana crystals (RoA + Frozen Heart) keeps you going til late game.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
September 18 2012 23:35 GMT
#185
His sustain is in his last hitting...
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
September 18 2012 23:40 GMT
#186
Quick question how good is renekton against cho top?
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 00:30:03
September 19 2012 00:25 GMT
#187
Pretty good I think, at least initially. It usually devolves into Cho outsustaining you eventually (he'll just stack armor if he's smart), but early on you can control the lane pretty well and keep him on the defensive. If Renekton's jungler swings by, not too hard to pick up a kill on Cho. He has a lot more CC than you though, so even if you win the lane, that doesn't necessarily mean much (unless you completely stomp him! which is possible depending on how good you are/how often your jungler swings by).
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 04:06:40
September 19 2012 04:03 GMT
#188
Renekton wrecks Cho if you're not properly runed for it, and then it's not bad, but I feel like the advantage is pretty solidly in Renek's favor as he outsustains you with no mana and his midgame is just as strong as yours. Kind of depends on ganks though, you can completely crush him if you get a gank and he doesn't, which is just like all top lanes, I guess.

On September 19 2012 07:36 APurpleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2012 17:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going top lane, try taking your second point in e and don't use rupture except when ganks come. Also, don't harass with scream until level 4 or until your jungler comes for a gank. It's inefficient to blow 70 or 80 mana on a skill at level 1 even if last hitting regains you mana.


errr

It may be inefficient, but by the time you hit level 4 you'd have full mana anyway.

I'm not saying don't use skills from 1-3, but if you 9/21/0 and don't take mana regen runes you have one or two casts total between 1-4 if you want to have mana at 4.

I mean with 2-3 mana regen per 5 base and you gain what, like 6-8 mana per last hit? you gotta farm a whole wave to get a shot at having one cast with Cho's mana costs...

[edit] Carnivore (passive): Whenever Cho'Gath kills a unit, he restores 32 + (2 x level) health and 3.25 + (0.25 x level) mana. [/edit]
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 04:33:40
September 19 2012 04:33 GMT
#189
On September 18 2012 15:34 Complete wrote:
Just started playing cho top. Smashes some people real nice. Had trouble vs GP and Mordekaiser so far, but I think I could solve that by starting boots/pots instead of dorans ring. I just really don't like starting without dorans ring becaues of mana issues :/

I often go dorans ring * 2 + philo stone during laning phase just to keep up with mana T_T I've never had so many mana issues with another champ.

Really don't like the dorans start. If you get anyone seriously bullying you around, you're not gonna keep up in health purely with your passive vs their potions and they can start zoning you off creeps... so you aren't even benefitting from your passive.
Also it becomes much harder to support an early gank when you have 50 ms less than they do.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10192 Posts
September 19 2012 19:51 GMT
#190
On September 19 2012 08:35 Complete wrote:
His sustain is in his last hitting...

yes i understand that, but if u get chunked, how will you last hit if your opponent is smart and harasses you if you try to last hit?

like his passive is nice if ur missing like 100 health or something and want to get back to max, but it doesn't help you if you are low. thats why you start boots 3 pots
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
APurpleCow
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1372 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 23:09:55
September 19 2012 23:03 GMT
#191
5HITCOMBO is my idol <3

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


On September 06 2012 18:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Current endgame build:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


=S=S

Why sunfire when FH and randuin's are so goddamn good?

yes i understand that, but if u get chunked, how will you last hit if your opponent is smart and harasses you if you try to last hit?

like his passive is nice if ur missing like 100 health or something and want to get back to max, but it doesn't help you if you are low. thats why you start boots 3 pots


If your opponent harasses you when you last hit, that's what your passive heals. It's hard to chunk a chogath (without a gank) if he has defensive runes early on. I don't think doran's ring is a good start, but it's definitely doable in a lot of match ups.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-20 10:31:21
September 20 2012 10:30 GMT
#192
dolan's ring not good on chogath period imo =/. dolan's shield in some matchups is ok though.

And Sunfire because I just really like Sunfire.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Trainninja
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Australia105 Posts
September 20 2012 15:15 GMT
#193
Hey guys,

I've been playing a lot of cho mid (i'm 1200 elo) in ranked 5s with friends / solo queue and i've been dominating against standard mids. That said, I dont think it's because I'm amazing but a lot of mids dont understand the level 6 burst that cho has.

Anyways, a few questions about cho -

I'm not really sure what is an optimal build order for cho - atm i'm running boots 3 pots into double doran ring (for mana regen because I go armour runes) into either lucky pick -> dfg or needless rod -> deathcap.

Also, although I usually dominate lane phase, what should be my role in team fights? I usually stay kinda back because i'm still pretty squishy (i only build AP items) and try to land ruptures on the bruisers and just drop my ult on anyone other than the tank.

As a top lane cho, how do i lane without getting crushed. In general i spam W to harass which works well from levels 1-8ish until the opponent gets a phage and another damage item and i can't out trade him, especially riven. I'm almost certain i'm missing something fundamental in the matchup (i.e. i'm doing something wrong / or not doing something i should be doing).

Thoughts?

GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
September 20 2012 16:14 GMT
#194
Also, guys: How does Renekton fair against cho? Because my friend who mains cho is challenging me for top on our team, and I think I'm gonna play Renekton. Any advice? I'm thinking I should crush him.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
September 20 2012 20:58 GMT
#195
On September 21 2012 00:15 Trainninja wrote:

As a top lane cho, how do i lane without getting crushed. In general i spam W to harass which works well from levels 1-8ish until the opponent gets a phage and another damage item and i can't out trade him, especially riven. I'm almost certain i'm missing something fundamental in the matchup (i.e. i'm doing something wrong / or not doing something i should be doing).

Thoughts?


Well, it's really hard to give advice without knowing what matchup you're talking about, but since you mentioned Riven, I'm assuming you are having problems with physical damage dealers.

The thing about Cho is that unless you are as good and experienced as 5HIT at Cho, you are not exactly going to win lanes by crushing the enemy six ways from sunday. (I might just be a bad Cho, but that's my experience.) What you can do, though, is turn a lot lot lot of lanes into farmfests. A farmed Riven is something to recon come late game, sure, but most teamcomps would rather have a 6 stack 250 armor Cho wrecking havoc by CCing everyone and their moms and NOMNOMNOMing on carries. Essentially, you don't have to trade with her, because there's no need to.

So how, and why, does that work? Essentially, it boils down to itemization - Armor is a lot easier to itemize than damage. Talking about Riven, for example, you might wanna start Cloth 5, get early Tabis, a Doran's Shield if you're really desperate and a Chain Vest. You don't really have to get out of the way of your build because you'll eventually build something with that Chain Vest anyways, and Riven is screwed. Even if she has like 2 Doran's and a BF sword, it doesn't matter because you'll just shrug off her harass and sustain with your passive.
currently rooting for myself.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 21 2012 03:03 GMT
#196
The key to matchups that beat you in top lane is just not to die to ganks (and hurrrr don't die without them either). If you just build into logical survival items you'll do fine. Tabi -> Glacial or Wardens makes you pretty safe, so once you get there you can diversify a bit.

In mid, don't take armor--you're playing as a caster and you'll rarely be tanking enough physical in lane to warrant it over flat mp5 or mp5/lv. 9/21/0 and mp yellows plus your natural sustain should allow you to skip dolans ring (which i just don't like in general on chogath but i've seen strong cho players go dolans dolans dfg/deathcap and do well--i just like rylais because i like winning fights more than getting kills), just open boots + 3 and rush merc treads, which makes both surviving and landing screams sooooooo much easier, then get parts for rylais starting with the giant's belt (or blasting wand if you want, I just like getting the bigger item first, especially while i'm just stacking feast--most people won't play stupid against cho mid and it's really important to have 6 stacks going into midgame so you can blow feast at will). Focus on controlling lane and dragon, farming, and stacking feast in that rough order, but as soon as you get rylais have your team get together and initiate like a madman because scream -> rupture -> ignite/feast -> auto chase is retarded at catching people out of position when everything slows. Take objectives and snowball your advantage while diversifying into defensive items or getting a deathcap.

Mid cho sooooooooooo much stronger and more fun than top cho it's not funny.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 21 2012 05:45 GMT
#197
Hmmmmmm so I just carried from top really hard against an olaf even after getting camped

Actually cho top isn't bad because you can 1v4 at certain points with wits + FH/Randuins

0/21/9 tp/flash ms/mpen/armor/mr boots + 3 pot or cloth + 5

QEWEER R>E>W>Q

rush tabi or philo/hog (only if you're going randuins tho)

get a glacial or a warden's mail depending on what you need and then wits

After you tank the fuck out consider gunblade for kills
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
NucNac
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany64 Posts
September 21 2012 07:14 GMT
#198
On September 21 2012 00:15 Trainninja wrote:
I'm not really sure what is an optimal build order for cho - atm i'm running boots 3 pots into double doran ring (for mana regen because I go armour runes) into either lucky pick -> dfg or needless rod -> deathcap.

Also, although I usually dominate lane phase, what should be my role in team fights? I usually stay kinda back because i'm still pretty squishy (i only build AP items) and try to land ruptures on the bruisers and just drop my ult on anyone other than the tank.


The last days i've been quite succesful with Cho'Gath mid, too. Usually i start like you, with 2 Dorans, Sorc Boots, but then i build Chalice of Harmony -> Athenes Unholy Grail. After that most of the time Deathcap/Deathfire, depending. I feel like this gives you alot of power in lane, because you can push fast and not be mana starved so quickly. You can start to roam and try to look for opportunities to help your mates or just farm the jungle. It's really easy to outfarm your opponent and push your minions into their tower.

In later stages, i don't feel like you need to be too scared in teamfights. When you are level 18 and have 6 Feast stacks, you are actually tanky plus at that time i normally end up having a Frozen Heart in my inventory.
Your job is to disrupt the fight, silence as many people as possible and walk straight to the carry to eat him if possible. I've been most succesful if I dive right into the fight, after someone else initiated it.

I don't know if my views/build is correct or good, I would appreciate some feedback.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 21 2012 07:37 GMT
#199
I don't think Cho needs any help clearing waves so if that's your rationale for getting Athene's, try out Rylais instead. It's pretty good. If you're running out of mana a lot and you're not getting blues I guess it's okay, but I don't think it's better than DFG in that regard, and I'm not a huge DFG fan. Grail's not bad but I think you'd rather have Abyssal? I kinda feel like it doesn't matter what you build on Cho so rush gunblade is pretty fun too.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
September 21 2012 16:02 GMT
#200
Well, the AP-CDR-resist does sound real nice for teamfights, to output more casts of your awesome CC, as well as sooner feasting. Cho's free max health makes resist items a bit nicer than Health (though I don't disagree that the slow on rylais might make it much easier to land ruptures.)
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