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On August 04 2012 21:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
It depends. I rush rylais almost every game now. I've only lost one game in two patches on SR with Cho mid or jungle doing that. Really, just work on your ruptures. The rupture buffs feel so right--the delay is about the same from click to rupture but the animation is a lot harder to react to now. If you're playing Cho top lane, you can always just get wits end and be good, but core items nowadays are:
Rylais (best item on cho hands down period)
Frozen Heart (great carrier)
FoN (almost more for the movespeed than for the MR)
Sunfire or Randuins (Sunfire Cape + Rylais is insane, but aspd slows are the fotm right now and the active on randuin's is like a mini ult if you flash into the middle of opposing team and blow it)
Merc or CDR boots
Optional sixth item--depends what you need. Sometimes it's GA, sometimes it's wit's end, sometimes it's triforce. Do what you want here based on the feel of the game. Banshee's is still amazing against a lot of teams with heavy single-target stuns or burst damage.
But yeah, it's mainly just ruptures, and that's a feel thing. Play Cho a lot, he's fun and I think he's going to be fotm soon.
MID
9/21/0 with points in the creep and flat damage reduction--it's huge in lane, especially with your passive
Either flat ap/mpen/mp5 mix/scaling ap or ms/mpen/mp5 mix/flat mr
boots + 3 opening always
Rush boots 2, either cdr sorc or merc--usually merc, rarely sorc unless I'm feeling cheeky and ran my ap page
Cata -> rylais or just rylais
group your team and engage like a maniac
diverge
QWWEWR R>W>E>Q
JUNGLE
9/21/0 or 0/21/9
ms/aspd/armor/mr or aspd/aspd/armor/mr
cloth 5, boots 3, or regen 1
boots + hog/philo
Rylais
diverge
EQEWER R>E>W>Q
Whoa only descriptions for mid and jungle?? I thought top was his most played (and best) role by far. Is this not the case?
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Chogath is played top most often and people feel he's a neutral pick but he's really vulnerable to gank, and doesn't do very much besides farm and take first tower in top lane. I feel like he dominates a lot more champions in mid lane and has much stronger build options than 2x gold/10 into frozen heart/wits end. Sure, he'll be unkillable for a while, but if you play right you'll already be unkillable by virtue of killing them too fast instead of them killing you too slow. Chogath loses top too hard to certain champs if they get a gank and you don't, whereas in mid you get ganked a lot but can escape because your tower is so much closer. Also, being mid allows you to feast dragon, which can give you that slight advantage for your team in dragon fights. Basically what it comes down to is that I like being closer to the action, and I hate it when a fight breaks out 4v4 midgame and top lane can't come because they'll never make it in time, whereas when I'm mid I can just walk in, hit rupture from across the screen, silence the flashes as they scatter, feast one, ignite the other, and chase them out roaring into my headphones like a lion.
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That's why I'm so "good" with Chogath. Everyone has this idea of Cho being a certain strength at different points in the game based on seeing him in top lane and mid Cho peaks at different points than top Cho does.
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Just did this rylai build and went 20/2 as mid cho. Wow I think I found the new champion i'm going to be practicing
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It's retarded how strong your initiation becomes when you have flash scream that silences and slows into rupture auto-chase and feast with ignite up. You're not a bad nuker by any means and you have insane sustained aoe cc with rylais and vorpal.
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So I was playing cho in an inhouse yesterday and I thought i was going jungle so I had my jungle masteries on and no MR runes except for per level ones. Then shen said he wanted to go jungle so im like np I go top lane cho (with jungle masteries and keeping in mind last time i laned was like level 5). Then vlad (stxz) proceeds to take zero damage from my w and do 100+ with his q somehow. Fast forward 20 minutes and vlad can tower dive me and only lose 1/3 of his hp and is 10/1 and is triple killing my team np. Granted my last hitting was pretty bad but I wanted to improve it so I started trying to stack MR with chalice and merc treads into rylais. What do you do in situations like these? stack gp/5? build more mr? don't suck in lane? max q for more damage on lower cd and higher range to try and zone vlad from minions early?
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If your lane opponent is 10/1, you've lost lane. Hard. Even if you weren't the one dying for him to get there. You should be avoiding him and just running away if the minion wave is such that he can dive you unless you have at least one ally with you. You need massive help from your team to shut someone like that down - you can't just expect to stay in lane 1v1 vs. him, even if you have reasonable MR.
Were you missing your W? Was it doing damage and silencing him, but he was sustaining it off? Were you getting most of the last hits in order to fuel your own sustain?
On another note -
5HIT, how do you feel about unholy grail on Cho? Feels like a better ROA for him, particularly in midlane. About the same price, slightly more AP, reasonable resist (and resist is kinda better than HP on cho because of his massive HP pool + solid sustain) and the CDR is lovely on Cho, too. (combines particularly well with FH)
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On August 10 2012 03:03 sylverfyre wrote:
If your lane opponent is 10/1, you've lost lane. Hard. Even if you weren't the one dying for him to get there. You should be avoiding him and just running away if the minion wave is such that he can dive you unless you have at least one ally with you. You need massive help from your team to shut someone like that down - you can't just expect to stay in lane 1v1 vs. him, even if you have reasonable MR.
Were you missing your W? Was it doing damage and silencing him, but he was sustaining it off? Were you getting most of the last hits in order to fuel your own sustain?
On another note -
5HIT, how do you feel about unholy grail on Cho? Feels like a better ROA for him, particularly in midlane. About the same price, slightly more AP, reasonable resist (and resist is kinda better than HP on cho because of his massive HP pool + solid sustain) and the CDR is lovely on Cho, too. (combines particularly well with FH)
I was the one dieing a lot lol (almost no jungle ganks on either side the entire game). My W did like 50 damage and his q did MUCH more and he was just sustaining it back. Not making the most of my last hits (only hitting about 80%)
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Are you aware that 80% last hit rate is extremely good - about 180 cs at 20 minutes? Doesn't seem like you're getting that many if you're dead as often as it sounds like you are.
Early you have to be aware of Vlad's Q cooldown, and you always have to be aware of Vlad's E stacks. When his Q is on cooldown early, you don't need to fear him as much. Later, this is true when Vlad drops his E stacks.
It does seem like a pretty bad matchup for Cho, however - you can't just auto him, and your cooldowns are much longer than his. Dunno how you're supposed to play it.
When you're behind though, you need to ask yourself if you're divable. If you are, let your team know and see if they can do something about it. If they can't, don't just stand under your tower to die - you might have to just give up your tower and go try and affect something somewhere else on the map. Cho is especially unforgiving if you're dying repeatedly - you really need those feast stacks to be as strong as you're supposed to be.
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On August 10 2012 04:30 sylverfyre wrote:
Are you aware that 80% last hit rate is extremely good - about 180 cs at 20 minutes? Doesn't seem like you're getting that many if you're dead as often as it sounds like you are.
Early you have to be aware of Vlad's Q cooldown, and you always have to be aware of Vlad's E stacks. When his Q is on cooldown early, you don't need to fear him as much. Later, this is true when Vlad drops his E stacks.
It does seem like a pretty bad matchup for Cho, however - you can't just auto him, and your cooldowns are much longer than his. Dunno how you're supposed to play it.
When you're behind though, you need to ask yourself if you're divable. If you are, let your team know and see if they can do something about it. If they can't, don't just stand under your tower to die - you might have to just give up your tower and go try and affect something somewhere else on the map. Cho is especially unforgiving if you're dying repeatedly - you really need those feast stacks to be as strong as you're supposed to be.
Oh, I was talking about our cs when I first died (was 55/45 in his favor approx) granted he was autoattacking me 24/7 when combined couldn't really sustain me though the damage. lategame I was trying to time my W right when soraka e(?) wore of so my team could burst him.
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The right runes go a long way in playing against someone. Vs vlad top you'd want ms quints, mpen reds, mp5 or mp5/lv yellows and flat mr blues, 9/21/0, and start boots + 3 pot, then rush merc treads and stack out feast asap. To be honest, I don't think you should die to vlad before level 6 unless you make a huge mistake and then it's a matter of "can i stack feast out before he can get strong enough to kill me". Vlad's going to win the lane because of his kit almost no matter what you do without heavy camping. You have chances to kill him if he's low and you have q w ignite r and flash up with boots 2 if you can hit silence and rupture then flash ignite feast for the kill. Still, late game vlad just scales harder.
You definitely shouldn't be dying 10 times to him in lane, though, but you'd have to ask stxz exactly what you did wrong.
Also on the Unholy Grail issue, I don't know, I've never really tried it. It came out about the same time Daenius told me I never lose when I build Rylais so I've been going boots + 3 -> merc/cdr/tabi -> Rylais and crushing games for a long time. It's not like you really need that much mana in lane with your passive and although the AP/MR is nice, I'd rather have Rylais for the insane CC and Abyssal for the aura. I'll test it, though, and see how it goes.
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Do you find the the build-up into Rylai's out of the jungle being kind of...painful?
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On August 11 2012 06:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
The right runes go a long way in playing against someone. Vs vlad top you'd want ms quints, mpen reds, mp5 or mp5/lv yellows and flat mr blues, 9/21/0, and start boots + 3 pot, then rush merc treads and stack out feast asap. To be honest, I don't think you should die to vlad before level 6 unless you make a huge mistake and then it's a matter of "can i stack feast out before he can get strong enough to kill me". Vlad's going to win the lane because of his kit almost no matter what you do without heavy camping. You have chances to kill him if he's low and you have q w ignite r and flash up with boots 2 if you can hit silence and rupture then flash ignite feast for the kill. Still, late game vlad just scales harder.
You definitely shouldn't be dying 10 times to him in lane, though, but you'd have to ask stxz exactly what you did wrong.
Also on the Unholy Grail issue, I don't know, I've never really tried it. It came out about the same time Daenius told me I never lose when I build Rylais so I've been going boots + 3 -> merc/cdr/tabi -> Rylais and crushing games for a long time. It's not like you really need that much mana in lane with your passive and although the AP/MR is nice, I'd rather have Rylais for the insane CC and Abyssal for the aura. I'll test it, though, and see how it goes.
Ah alright. thank you.
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On August 11 2012 09:44 Hyren wrote:
Do you find the the build-up into Rylai's out of the jungle being kind of...painful?
yes. the way i do it is going double gp10 into a lot of aura items (aegis/wits/abyssal)
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On August 11 2012 09:44 Hyren wrote:
Do you find the the build-up into Rylai's out of the jungle being kind of...painful?
Well, like they said, double gold/10 and the fact that cho can both clear fast and has decently strong ganks makes it pretty easy to get there. Previously I had been rushing triforce but it turns out that Rylais is so much stronger because it gives you a lot of things you need, damage, hp and probably most importantly, more cc.
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So, what champ should i play vs the alien? I thought, Udyr might be decent, as he has great sustain himself and i destroyed a cho with tiger proccs some weeks ago, so he was my "counter". I don't have to mention, that i lost every lane trying to repeat that. There is no way you are not getting the full combo off and cho gets the health back faster, at 6 he eats you as you are low. Sth like panth is bad, as cho will just get some armor and be fine. Maybe sth with even more ranged harass like teemo or nidalee? Or kayle? Or should i take sth with more reliable sustain and just ignore him? Not really my style of play. As he is quite common the last days, any tips would be highly appreciated.
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Whenever I played vs Vlad I'd do a super fuck-vlad build. MR quints+blues, 2 null magics+philo+regen pendant early --> FoN.
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On August 21 2012 00:16 Broetchenholer wrote:
So, what champ should i play vs the alien? I thought, Udyr might be decent, as he has great sustain himself and i destroyed a cho with tiger proccs some weeks ago, so he was my "counter". I don't have to mention, that i lost every lane trying to repeat that. There is no way you are not getting the full combo off and cho gets the health back faster, at 6 he eats you as you are low. Sth like panth is bad, as cho will just get some armor and be fine. Maybe sth with even more ranged harass like teemo or nidalee? Or kayle? Or should i take sth with more reliable sustain and just ignore him? Not really my style of play. As he is quite common the last days, any tips would be highly appreciated.
Jayce wrecks him pretty hard. Top lane is all about ganks anyway though so as long as you play a champ that can kill him with gank assistance you'll do fine based on your jungler. I've started thinking about top lane as a 2v2 bruiser lane with one champ roaming instead of in a vacuum.
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Nidalee, and others who can harass with primarily autos and not need their skills in combination with autos. Especially ranged auto harass. Don't know how the teemo match plays up, I mostly know the nidalee one from playing the nidalee side. And it's hard to gank a nidalee. Poke poke poke, if he uses his scream you can kittyform and potentially all-in cho. You do a mix of phys and magic damage in kitty form too, so even if he stacks armor he's not walking away taking no damage.
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On August 05 2012 12:09 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Chogath is played top most often and people feel he's a neutral pick but he's really vulnerable to gank, and doesn't do very much besides farm and take first tower in top lane. I feel like he dominates a lot more champions in mid lane and has much stronger build options than 2x gold/10 into frozen heart/wits end. Sure, he'll be unkillable for a while, but if you play right you'll already be unkillable by virtue of killing them too fast instead of them killing you too slow. Chogath loses top too hard to certain champs if they get a gank and you don't, whereas in mid you get ganked a lot but can escape because your tower is so much closer. Also, being mid allows you to feast dragon, which can give you that slight advantage for your team in dragon fights. Basically what it comes down to is that I like being closer to the action, and I hate it when a fight breaks out 4v4 midgame and top lane can't come because they'll never make it in time, whereas when I'm mid I can just walk in, hit rupture from across the screen, silence the flashes as they scatter, feast one, ignite the other, and chase them out roaring into my headphones like a lion.
Can you share your build order and runes? I am curious to try.
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EPT
