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[Champion] Cho'Gath - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
May 08 2012 21:05 GMT
#101
I'm pretty good at Cho, but I never have gotten double gp/10 builds to work that well with him. With a philostone only, yes... think going two sacrifices too much. Then again I suck with bruiser type Cho and never was that successful jungling him either.

I tend to go heavier on AP than I used to with Cho, something like merc treads/RoA/FH/Deathcap/Abysal's/situational item (usually FoN or another armor item). Still go 9/21/0 on him with penetration marks, flat armor seals, scaling mr resist, and move speed qunits. Problem I always had was I'd be first in farm by far, but my team never did enough damage for my tankiness or cc to matter much (which takes a lot of effort on their part). His ratios are sick, and you don't even sacrifice that much tankiness to get deathcap (not that hard to get a negatron and just keep it til deathcap is done).
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
May 17 2012 01:25 GMT
#102
How about getting a Rylai's on Chogath. It gives AP and it does slow with vorpale spikes. Chogath doesn't need to build HP, but the slow and AP is nice.
GhostOwl
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
766 Posts
May 17 2012 05:20 GMT
#103
On May 17 2012 10:25 BlackMagister wrote:
How about getting a Rylai's on Chogath. It gives AP and it does slow with vorpale spikes. Chogath doesn't need to build HP, but the slow and AP is nice.


E has near-melee range, Q already gives a slow, R is a finisher-nuke. W would be the only real contender of benefit from the slow. You're better off building separate health items or separate AP items.
GhostOwl
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
766 Posts
May 17 2012 05:23 GMT
#104
I really like AP tanks like Cho. He's one of those tanks that can potentially do a lot of damage. If only his knock-up CC was more reliable, I would take him as my main tank. Tanks like Alistar can dish out good CC but can never really do damage.
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
May 17 2012 20:03 GMT
#105
On May 17 2012 14:20 GhostOwl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 10:25 BlackMagister wrote:
How about getting a Rylai's on Chogath. It gives AP and it does slow with vorpale spikes. Chogath doesn't need to build HP, but the slow and AP is nice.


E has near-melee range, Q already gives a slow, R is a finisher-nuke. W would be the only real contender of benefit from the slow. You're better off building separate health items or separate AP items.


Not to mention Q, W, and E are all AOE :/
:3
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
May 17 2012 20:21 GMT
#106
cho gath is very underplayed IMO. he is really really good against some AP carries mid.

I even dare to say that he is a rather good solid mid laner. rushing abyssmal on him is brutal mid. his silence kinda gives him what keeps kassadin alive but unlike kassadin he can actually win trades with it before lvl 6. also he is a major gank assist because of it and his knockup. after 6 + flash + ignite up his ult becomes a garanteed kill very fast.

top he has problems against alot of those champion who have raw sustained power like olaf i think.

In general I think cho should be played more atm. he kinda has everything in one champion that a team wants: good scaling, good laneing, burst damage, utility.

his scaling is very interesting because he does it with 3 properties very well: ap, mres/armor, cdr. this set makes him a strong candidate for a couple of the most costeffective items in the game and one can allways consider to build him in different ways according to the situation.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
ishboh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States954 Posts
May 17 2012 20:33 GMT
#107
On May 09 2012 06:05 zer0das wrote:
I'm pretty good at Cho, but I never have gotten double gp/10 builds to work that well with him. With a philostone only, yes... think going two sacrifices too much. Then again I suck with bruiser type Cho and never was that successful jungling him either.

I tend to go heavier on AP than I used to with Cho, something like merc treads/RoA/FH/Deathcap/Abysal's/situational item (usually FoN or another armor item). Still go 9/21/0 on him with penetration marks, flat armor seals, scaling mr resist, and move speed qunits. Problem I always had was I'd be first in farm by far, but my team never did enough damage for my tankiness or cc to matter much (which takes a lot of effort on their part). His ratios are sick, and you don't even sacrifice that much tankiness to get deathcap (not that hard to get a negatron and just keep it til deathcap is done).

as for the gp/10 builds, have you ever tried going kage's lucky pick into DFG (only turn it into DFG until at least RoA, FH and negatron)?

i find that the build I like best is always boots3->catalyst->merctreads->RoA->FH->abyssal->deathcap and then situational, which I rarely get to. so basically the same build as you. I've been wanting to try kage's lucky pick whenever I am in a lane that I am winning...but haven't gotten around to actually doing it.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
May 18 2012 04:21 GMT
#108
On May 18 2012 05:33 ishboh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2012 06:05 zer0das wrote:
I'm pretty good at Cho, but I never have gotten double gp/10 builds to work that well with him. With a philostone only, yes... think going two sacrifices too much. Then again I suck with bruiser type Cho and never was that successful jungling him either.

I tend to go heavier on AP than I used to with Cho, something like merc treads/RoA/FH/Deathcap/Abysal's/situational item (usually FoN or another armor item). Still go 9/21/0 on him with penetration marks, flat armor seals, scaling mr resist, and move speed qunits. Problem I always had was I'd be first in farm by far, but my team never did enough damage for my tankiness or cc to matter much (which takes a lot of effort on their part). His ratios are sick, and you don't even sacrifice that much tankiness to get deathcap (not that hard to get a negatron and just keep it til deathcap is done).

as for the gp/10 builds, have you ever tried going kage's lucky pick into DFG (only turn it into DFG until at least RoA, FH and negatron)?

i find that the build I like best is always boots3->catalyst->merctreads->RoA->FH->abyssal->deathcap and then situational, which I rarely get to. so basically the same build as you. I've been wanting to try kage's lucky pick whenever I am in a lane that I am winning...but haven't gotten around to actually doing it.

DFG is better now but I'm still hard-pressed to get it on Cho. There's a lot of better stuff for him and it's not like your single-target burst is what's lacking. I don't like the gold/10 builds because A) you farm like a monster already and B) you need to take advantage of your strong midgame with Cho because he doesn't scale into late as hard as other tanks like, say, skarner or mundo.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
HughMyron
Profile Joined April 2012
297 Posts
May 20 2012 05:57 GMT
#109
What do you think of HotshotGG's comment that Cho'Gath is no longer viable on top?
Platinum III, Kayle/Janna/Ashe Fanboy, HUEHUEHUE
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13984 Posts
May 20 2012 06:06 GMT
#110
if anyone is able to make that call on cho it would be hsgg. He played solo top cho the best and might have been the only pro to really use his potential. with hsgg as a jungler I doubt that cho will get back into the meta in any time.

last night I bought gentlemen chogath skin. solo q will never be the same for me.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
storkfan
Profile Joined March 2012
493 Posts
May 20 2012 10:25 GMT
#111
On May 20 2012 14:57 HughMyron wrote:
What do you think of HotshotGG's comment that Cho'Gath is no longer viable on top?

uh he was pretty much thhe only one using him anyway..
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
May 20 2012 10:33 GMT
#112
I think Cho is entirely hit or miss on landing his rupture, which as of now, NO ONE can do even remotely consistently, not even HS anymore. Once that's gone, his disruption and damage is surpassed by many other champions. I think they should lower the delay on his rupture by 0.25s or less to at least make him less binary. It's just way too easy to dodge by anyone with boots 2 imo.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 20 2012 16:24 GMT
#113
On May 20 2012 14:57 HughMyron wrote:
What do you think of HotshotGG's comment that Cho'Gath is no longer viable on top?

Cho hasn't been viable top in pro level games for at least 6-9 months now IMHO.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
May 21 2012 02:27 GMT
#114
Yeah, Cho's dead. He doesn't scale into late game, period. You're a monster for about 10 minutes but if you don't win or create an insurmountable advantage in those 10 you lose to a better comp every time. He's just doesn't do anything as well as other champs do right now except block skillshots. Wooooooo.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10191 Posts
May 21 2012 02:40 GMT
#115
Am I the only one who still main's Chogath??? I <3 my little feasting monster beast :D

And as for HotShotGG's comments, I think that Cho just gets pummeled by these bruisers top like jarvan, or can get easily zoned hard by kennen. he just doesnt have that tankiness that he used to have top lane.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
May 21 2012 03:16 GMT
#116
I am not that sure about cho being unviable, I play him occasionally and win with him pretty often, maybe it's just people being tards. One of the biggest problems of Cho is his complete inability to assist ganks in any meaningful way against most top lanes (Lee Sin, Jax, Olaf, Kennen, Riven, Renekton + also anyone with flash up). He certainly does well in lane, unless you are against an AD carry. It feels like you should be able to do so much in teamfights with the AoE silence too, I wouldn't could Cho Gath out just yet. I'm gonna theorycraft on him today and see what I can come up with.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
May 21 2012 04:03 GMT
#117
i think cho is extremely strong in the right comp. said comp will have a crazy-good initiator like ashe or morgana or jarvan, someone that can GUARANTEE that cho's rupture lands. once rupture hits, it's over. that person is dead 100%. knockup lets everyone hit their skillshots on the poor sucker, silence ensures no escape, true damage eats through tanks and squishies alike. if cho lands ruptures, he dominates the game, and so to ensure game domination, you have to ensure ruptures hitting.

i've seen a couple teams like TGF run cho top with morgana mid and a high-damage jungle that also has CC (like renekton, ww, lee) and then ashe bot. cho runs more AP than tank. it's a strong comp because you have no choice but to ignore cho, and he subtly wrecks your team

he can be strong in lane if he's babysat for a few levels, and only as a last pick to ensure that any of his really hard matchups aren't picked. i think cho can do well against olaf, for example, but i would never pick him after the enemy picks lee or riven. idk
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
May 21 2012 15:01 GMT
#118
I am pretty sure you can do just fine against Lee and Riven given you max E and use Atk Spe Marks. Seriously, Cho's E is possibly the best single autoattack buff in the game, it should be maxed whenever playing against melee only champs (like Riven and Lee)
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
May 21 2012 21:04 GMT
#119
On May 22 2012 00:01 Scip wrote:
I am pretty sure you can do just fine against Lee and Riven given you max E and use Atk Spe Marks. Seriously, Cho's E is possibly the best single autoattack buff in the game, it should be maxed whenever playing against melee only champs (like Riven and Lee)

Ah I definitely think the maxed Silence vs Riven is way better, especially early. Longer silence = no passive or CC for Riven.

Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
May 21 2012 21:34 GMT
#120
On May 22 2012 06:04 Bladeorade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 00:01 Scip wrote:
I am pretty sure you can do just fine against Lee and Riven given you max E and use Atk Spe Marks. Seriously, Cho's E is possibly the best single autoattack buff in the game, it should be maxed whenever playing against melee only champs (like Riven and Lee)

Ah I definitely think the maxed Silence vs Riven is way better, especially early. Longer silence = no passive or CC for Riven.


What runes, masteries and starting items have you tried it with? I tested it with both AP and attack speed runes, mostly with 9/21/0 masteries and cloth + 5/boots + 3/doran's ring as starting items and in all and every case maxing E proved itself to be far superior.

The reasoning is simple, there really isn't that huge a difference between a 2 second and 3 second silence, because the main role of the silence is to disrupt his combo. The damage increase on the W is to be perfectly honest pathetic against anyone but the squishy squishies, especially given it's long cooldown and increasing mana cost. Now the difference in lvl 1 E and maxed E is 60 damage/hit, which is a lot.
"But Scip, the difference between lvl 1 W and maxed W is 200, which is a lot more!!!"
That's right sweetling, but that's not seeing the whole picture here is it. Now when you max W and the lane is pushed a bit past the river, 'cause you be chogath after all, Riven can go absolutely ballistic nuts-to-the-walls mad on you can while you can only disrupt him for 3 seconds with your silence and do 200some magic damage that gets reduced by his hexdrinker. Now if you max E my dear, he can try these aggresive shenanigans on you but you just hit him back like a truck and actually beat him in prolonged fight 1 on 1 easily.

Now you might try to argue that maxing W helps you harass him or similiar. That is absolutely untrue, you have to have W up for whenever he tries to jump on you, max it or not, so if you use it you have to back off for 10some seconds.

I am not saying there is no chance that you are right, but as you can see I am extremely sceptical of it since the explanation you provide is insufficient. Could you please elaborate more on how the 0.25-1 second longer silence helps you so much?
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
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