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On February 13 2012 23:08 Xedat wrote:
One quick question, does the bonus magic damage from E benefit from spell vamp or life steal?
it procs rylais iirc, so presumably spellvamp.
edit: proof
v1.0.0.103 - 2010-10-18
Rupture cooldown reduced to 9 from 10
Rupture mana cost changed to 90 at all levels from 80/90/100/110/120
Vorpal Spikes is now classified as an area of effect spell for the sake of items like Rylai's Scepter or Hextech Revolver
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On February 13 2012 23:16 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:08 Xedat wrote:
One quick question, does the bonus magic damage from E benefit from spell vamp or life steal? it procs rylais iirc, so presumably spellvamp.
Confirming that it procs Rylai's.
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The only spells in the game that proc lifesteal are ones that proc on hit effects. E.G. Ez Q, GP Q, Shyvana Q, Twitch ultimate (the latter two being the only on hit AoEs), dunno if I forgot any others. All of Cho's spells work with spellvamp instead but there are auto attack magic skills which don't proc either life steal or spell vamp, like Kog/Teemo/Fizz Ws. Cho luckily escapes that.
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in a ranked arranged 5 setting, is cho supposed to have kill potential in lane with the exception of your jungler ganking? I just bought cho and after about 10 games i feel that he's better off philo+hog and just farm with tp as opposed to going for a kill with ignite. I'm seeing that he may as well just harass and force the opponent to go back while he farms all day. it's just too hard to go for the kill against decent players.
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regardless of ur summoner u have big burst at 6 (with a good true damage portion), ignite ofc makes this stronger but with a jungler gank you should be a kill threat at any point in the game with ur cc and decent damage
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so I have been playing Cho.. I wanted to get some feedback on wether or not I am doing it right.
TP/Flash - 9/21/0
I max R>W>E>Q, on level 1 get Q
I will go tabi/mercs + cata/glacial shroud + wits end and then finish Banshee or FH depending on the enemy team.
My main concern is the runes:
armorquints or AP quints?
Atkspd or mpen reds?
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It really depends heavily on the matchup. There are times when you will want to run even something as strange as a full armor page against certain laners because you can shut them down so hard by doing so. I'm not a huge wit's end fan, but Hotshot does it and he's a really strong player so I suggest you follow his lead. Again, it depends what your role is on the team. If you're the main tank I think you really want FH/FoN as your core... Banshees is very situational on Cho because you actually want them to use cc on you and you're so big that most skillshots will hit you anyway, unlike an ad or ap who can weave in and out. As far as runes go, do whatever you want. Mpen always helps, but late game I think the aspd is stronger because you're gonna be autoattacking towers quite a bit.
Of course all of this is standard top cho, for jungle it's obviously aspd and for mid you go full Mpen/ap or some janky Mpen/mp5/mr setup. I don't feel like top cho is quite as strong anymore, but if you're not super high elo it really shouldn't matter because it's so fun.
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When I get my computer fixed I'm gonna play shit tons of games with Cho to get back into my groove and I will have this updated when I figure out the next trends. Hotshot did tabi + the philo item in iem, but hotshot also fucked up and lost the game looooooooool.
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On March 12 2012 15:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
When I get my computer fixed I'm gonna play shit tons of games with Cho to get back into my groove and I will have this updated when I figure out the next trends. Hotshot did tabi + the philo item in iem, but hotshot also fucked up and lost the game looooooooool.
The game he chose to do that really confused me though. Tabi + Philo item vs a double AP kennen-vlad comp? I forget who M5's carry was, but with that much sustained magic damage and Ashe as the AD carry, I don't understand the tabi choice. I could see it being the right choice a lot more than it's currently played, though.
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okay, i really need to watch some high level cho gaths. i always end up farming the entire game. as an irelia player, i'm used to farming up till level 11ish (usually) and become godmode and literally drop my opponent. i just can't figure out cho's window of opportunities and end up playing safely as i do with almost every champ i'm not familiar with. i've seen some of hotshot's cho, he seems to be playing cho really passively, just as i have been doing. i have a 1700 elo friend who can beat rumble (and other fairly hard laners) in lane by himself, so i'm guessing there are different ways to play him. suggestions?
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Cho's window of opportunity is the time of the game where he has either 2 medium items like glacial shroud + wit's end or his first big item such as RoA and some small components. Usually it's around level 10-16, where he's outleveling everyone and has taken his tower in lane or dropped it to secure a dragon and rally his team for a mid or bot tower. If you're mid lane, very few AP champs will be able to beat you with the right rune page, but mid lane is basically all about who gets better ganks. Cho can kill people straight up in mid, though, because rupture dunks fools who can't dodge. Turning games into farm wars with Cho is a good and bad thing. On one hand, when you hit your peak effectiveness, you'll hit it very early in the game, like 30-40 mins. On the other hand, if the game goes to 50-60 mins, you're going to lose to champs like Irelia, Tristana, Gangplank, Tryndamere, etc., because when you die as Cho late game the stack loss actually hurts.
Basically the trick to beating players in lane is knowing how much harass you can take in what form from certain champs and how the gank will come and being prepared for it when it does. Having the correct runepage and masteries helps, and Chogath is only as strong as your ability to hit rupture. Practice rupture placement. Every one you miss is wasting quite a bit of mana, but hitting that clutch rupture can get you kills you REALLY don't deserve.
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omg..just lost my lane to only jaximus's blitzcrank against my cho. He didn't kill me or anything (forced me out of lane and got my tower) but damn his silence and shield are like the perfect way to counter a cho. tbh I thought he was trolling, but then he did in fact chose blitz after my cho pick.
How the crap do you go against a blitzcrank? He went some 2 doran's blade, triforce, last whisper crap. boo
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On March 17 2012 00:40 billy5000 wrote:
omg..just lost my lane to only jaximus's blitzcrank against my cho. He didn't kill me or anything (just got my tower) but damn his silence and shield are like the perfect way to counter a cho. tbh I thought he was trolling, but then he did in fact chose blitz after my cho pick.
How the crap do you go against a blitzcrank? He went some 2 doran's blade, triforce, last whisper crap. boo
That sounds like a 2gate into Dts into carriers lol.
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Haha yeah. And it's so hard to dodge his pull as a 6 stack cho. WTF lol
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Blitz top is secretly OP. I dunno man, it's actually really fucking hard to beat blitz top.
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On March 17 2012 00:51 Mogwai wrote:
Blitz top is secretly OP. I dunno man, it's actually really fucking hard to beat blitz top.
Ahha, Blitz top really fun too!
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Hello guys, I've just played quite a bit of jungle Cho games, so let me dump some thoughts in here.
Starting boots +3 in jungle seems the best. Masteries 0/21/9 are pretty obvious.
I usually start wolves, golem etc. It is pretty fast (something like 3:40 lvl 4 I think?) but really tight and can't gank inbetween really. Maybe some better route?
First item is either boots2 or HoG, if I get a kill/assist early and feel like ganking, I get oracles on my first back. Seems pretty good, you shouldn't be dying any time soon anyways.
I didn't try madreds, but I don't see for what purpose I would get them; I jungle just fast enough to kill all creeps and have 10-20 sec inbetween every round to do something, except for the ones when buffs are up.
My first big item is usually FoN or Frozen Heart, any reason to get other items first?
My build usually looks like 2 big tanky items (like FoN and FH) into Wit's End and Rageblade, these really up the deeps. Maybe Rylais makes more sense? But 15% slow isn't anything fantastic, barely noticeable tbh.
I'd say best positioning in teamfights is either on top of your carries or between their carry-divers and yours. Maybe if I stay on top of carries, I can get 1 less tank item and get wit's end and GRB sooner? But then your team diver dies faster.
Is flash better than ghost? I've been using ghost, but some people have been laughing at me (I'm looking at you Slayer) for using ghost on everyone. Flash would allow me to feast anyone and jump over walls, then again I usually feast their team diver anyway.
Any comments on the WoT above are appreciated.
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So is EQEWER still the best leveling for Jungle Cho? Also is Philo pretty mandatory? I did a blind test-run jungling him last night and I felt very mana starved, but I went WEWQ so that might be part of it. Would you still build Wriggles if you went Philostone?
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i never jungle cho but wriggles sounds pretty bad =/
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I don't have a ton of experience jungling cho (so please correct me if I'm saying something stupid!), but I think I'd avoid wriggles regardless of whether you get philo because it feels really redundant - he already clears fast and his health never gets low. I haven't tried going without philo but I don't think the mana regen is very necessary - maxing E first means you can clear camps fairly fast without having to use your spells. My rationale for getting it is typically for the gp5 and eventually building shurelya's more than the sustain.
Getting an early FoN doesn't sound particularly good to me unless APs are getting extremely fed. I think MR options were discussed a bit in the Maokai thread and some of that probably carries over here, but as a tank-jungler I usually find that most of the damage I take comes from AD carries rather than AP, since AD carries are the ones attacking whoever's closest whereas AP carries have more tankiness to target squishier targets and actually waste their spell cooldowns if they cast on you. So I'd tend to prefer smaller sources of MR like merc treads, aegis, wit's, and/or sitting on a negatron until after other core items are completed. But I guess cho with feast stacks gets big enough that any AoE damage is going to hit him whether it's intended for him or not, so he might value MR more than other champs filling a similar role.
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EPT
