EPT[Champion] Olaf - Page 12
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On October 07 2013 15:58 TheHumanSensation wrote: A question about axe-max olaf in lane. How are you supposed to not run out of mana? Are you just supposed to push and back constantly, or is a flask enough, or...? You need to make axes count. It's not an ability to just mindlessly push every wave. This means last hitting with autoattacks(the horror) | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On October 07 2013 16:20 Amui wrote: You need to make axes count. It's not an ability to just mindlessly push every wave. This means last hitting with autoattacks(the horror) Auto attacks? That's just barbaric. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 07 2013 16:35 TheHumanSensation wrote: Auto attacks? That's just barbaric. You laugh...but the game really makes the aa a liability | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
His early-game is super weak. Even maxing E first I have trouble trading with heavy-hitting AD champs like Renekton/Riven/Garen (god I played against Garen so much this past week). I also have trouble out-sustaining champs like Aatrox/Irelia. Then there's the fact that even in a favorable matchup if I get camped or ganked early on I fall behind and either start feeding or lose a ton of cs (e.g. giving up first blood to jax). Also Olaf is terrible at escaping ganks so I feel I have to play super defensive levels 2-3 which is normally when I want to be out-trading my opponent. I feel especially vulnerable when I don't have a ward, which I usually don't because I like doran shield + pot opening so much. However late-game Olaf is just as good as he's ever been. Even when I lose lane I farm up and come back late-game and destroy the carries. I haven't really changed my core, I still think hydra/randuin's/SV is the perfect core for him. Is there any way to come out of a losing lane without feeding and with respectable cs? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:54 BlasiuS wrote: Been playing Olaf a ton since Wednesday, he's significantly different than pre-rework olaf. His early-game is super weak. Even maxing E first I have trouble trading with heavy-hitting AD champs like Renekton/Riven/Garen (god I played against Garen so much this past week). I also have trouble out-sustaining champs like Aatrox/Irelia. Then there's the fact that even in a favorable matchup if I get camped or ganked early on I fall behind and either start feeding or lose a ton of cs (e.g. giving up first blood to jax). Also Olaf is terrible at escaping ganks so I feel I have to play super defensive levels 2-3 which is normally when I want to be out-trading my opponent. I feel especially vulnerable when I don't have a ward, which I usually don't because I like doran shield + pot opening so much. However late-game Olaf is just as good as he's ever been. Even when I lose lane I farm up and come back late-game and destroy the carries. I haven't really changed my core, I still think hydra/randuin's/SV is the perfect core for him. Is there any way to come out of a losing lane without feeding and with respectable cs? Ask for camp? | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:54 BlasiuS wrote: Been playing Olaf a ton since Wednesday, he's significantly different than pre-rework olaf. His early-game is super weak. Even maxing E first I have trouble trading with heavy-hitting AD champs like Renekton/Riven/Garen (god I played against Garen so much this past week). I also have trouble out-sustaining champs like Aatrox/Irelia. Then there's the fact that even in a favorable matchup if I get camped or ganked early on I fall behind and either start feeding or lose a ton of cs (e.g. giving up first blood to jax). Also Olaf is terrible at escaping ganks so I feel I have to play super defensive levels 2-3 which is normally when I want to be out-trading my opponent. I feel especially vulnerable when I don't have a ward, which I usually don't because I like doran shield + pot opening so much. However late-game Olaf is just as good as he's ever been. Even when I lose lane I farm up and come back late-game and destroy the carries. I haven't really changed my core, I still think hydra/randuin's/SV is the perfect core for him. Is there any way to come out of a losing lane without feeding and with respectable cs? I dont think you can max e in lane anymore vs alot of melee tops, he just is too weak for it. Maxing axe lets you shove and get the cs, and gives you more space to back off.. Id try agressively shoving the first 2 waves through constant autos and axe spam, making sure your wave hits his tower, then backing, get like 5 healthpots and a ward, and go from there. (with like dshield start). Creep agro level 1 and 2 if you have creep advantage is usually enough to prevent an all in, and you should back before the double buff gank timing comes. (if you get level 2 ganked, good luck!. Ghost is sometimes enough to get out of it..) Right now it feels like if your behind in lane you cant do anything but hope to chip them down with axes, so you always need to have the healthpots to stay high enough to be able to go in. I was buying ALOT of health pots every back for the first while. Also, health quints are really strong to get you through the early game and come out better in early trades. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Quick check of LoLking(now that it's finally up) shows roughly 1k picks in plat or higher games, and his winrate is still atrocious, in the very low 40's/high 30's for diamond. I'll need a ton more games to maybe pass better judgement, but I feel like he still needs a lot of help. For starters, the passthrough thing on hit with axe would be great if it worked for everybody, including champs considering he now HAS to go through people to catch up with an axe, even if your opponent is standing still because of how hard he gets out traded without repeated axes. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On October 09 2013 14:56 Amui wrote: I think this iteration of olaf isn't all that great in the jungle. If you don't get massively ahead, you aren't going to be building damage items, won't have the tankiness to ghost into an enemy team, and the minimum range axe thing really trashed his early game dueling EXCEPT in the single case where you're chasing somebody down. Quick check of LoLking(now that it's finally up) shows roughly 1k picks in plat or higher games, and his winrate is still atrocious, in the very low 40's/high 30's for diamond. I'll need a ton more games to maybe pass better judgement, but I feel like he still needs a lot of help. For starters, the passthrough thing on hit with axe would be great if it worked for everybody, including champs considering he now HAS to go through people to catch up with an axe, even if your opponent is standing still because of how hard he gets out traded without repeated axes. yeah in my limited experience I feel he's pretty terrible straight up - just that jungle seems to be a less bad place to put him. A big part what I'm experiencing is that basically the only area in which he seems to have received a net buff is in catching people from midrange - so his ganks have improved while everything else has somehow gotten even worse. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
scratch that. You can toggle ult on(2s minimum) and off, and for every second you leave it on, X seconds gets added to the CD(has a soft minimum of like 30/20/10)(reduced by CDR). Lasts up to N seconds, or until canceled. That way if he got behind, he could toggle ult and farm with axes, and I don't think it's possible to get ahead with the current iteration of olaf without the other player fucking up. Also lets jungle olaf clear a lot faster when needed, and lessens the mana burden of giving away the blue. My wish is for Olaf to be viable again. One of the design goals of the rework was even to ensure that olaf came out stronger, because of how underpowered he was(is). I think they've missed the mark on that goal by a landslide, because at best, the strength of the old olaf vs this one is a wash. At worst, this one is even shittier, if that were at all possible. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
I usually do, but noone wants to gank for olaf, he has no hard cc  edit: Renekton in particular is a nearly impossible lane for me, and he's incredibly popular at the moment. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On October 10 2013 15:49 cLutZ wrote: Just in case Smash ends up trolling here: Please, Please get rid of all these Attack Speed Steroids. They make no sense for Olaf...unless you think people are going toe to toe with him when he is ahead...which they dont. I think he'll wait a bit and see what buffs he has in store before reworking his kit again. They'd probably have to be rather massive ones to even begin to address his winrate(40% is absolutely abysmal). Urgot lost like 30% range on Q and 15% on E, and his ultimate now had range scaling(50/75/100%), and that brought him from like 48%? to his current 40%. It takes an absolutely massive nerf(s) to make one champion lose 50% more than they win. I'm not asking to get olaf to 50% winrate, but getting at least to viable status(>47%) would be awesome. One things for certain though, Olaf is at best equal with his pre-rework state. | ||
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On October 10 2013 19:40 TomatoShark wrote: so sv randuin hydra wtf do you start doran shield pot and go randuin or sv depending on who you are vs and just farm to hydra after that? I'd imagine zephyr and boots of swiftness would be a good choice. | ||
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
 . Wouldnt Botrk be better then hydra? | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On October 10 2013 20:13 saddaromma wrote: I'd imagine zephyr and boots of swiftness would be a good choice. Zephyr was a good buy before when his W gave you AD. Now it's just way too much AS if you buy a zephyr IMO. I did read a Riot post about how Olaf is in a good spot for balancing now and they are leaning towards buffing E slightly, increasing the AS on rank 1 W, and possibly reducing the min range Q just a small amount in the next couple patches. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On October 10 2013 16:49 Amui wrote: I think he'll wait a bit and see what buffs he has in store before reworking his kit again. They'd probably have to be rather massive ones to even begin to address his winrate(40% is absolutely abysmal). Urgot lost like 30% range on Q and 15% on E, and his ultimate now had range scaling(50/75/100%), and that brought him from like 48%? to his current 40%. It takes an absolutely massive nerf(s) to make one champion lose 50% more than they win. I'm not asking to get olaf to 50% winrate, but getting at least to viable status(>47%) would be awesome. One things for certain though, Olaf is at best equal with his pre-rework state. The problem is, his kit doesn't work together. Min range axe meanes to get max damage from it you need to keep running around to pick it up, but that means you lose damage from aa's from the massive AS sterioids he gets. When your trying to run into a teamfight, you need some kind of defensive steroid to survive the incoming damage. Instead, the spell you pop that allows you to reach your target makes you take MORE damage. His W and Q now work against each other, while before they worked with each other. Like think about it this way - His old ult was awesome and exactly what he needed for teamfighting - a massive defensive steroid and the ability to reach his target. His ult, q, w, used to have synergy(arp + ad + vamp + phys damage skill), which is now removed, while his e and w had some small synergy with the spell vamp which is replaced with the aa reducing cd, which is garbage with how much movement abilities there are. Just the way his spells interact with each other, and the tools he has for teamfighting, is just way way worse now. He really needs some kind of short duration massive defensive steroid to work in teamfights, which was removed from him. I have no idea why they though that this kit would be better in any way. Its like taking a masterpiece of synergy and just randomly changing things for the sake of changing them and killing the champion in the process. They should remove the axe minimum range, and instead add a minimum 1-2 second cooldown on it (can't reduce cd below that), and that would only make him feel less clunky to play, not really make him stronger... This version of Olaf will probably never be good at teamfighting without massively overinflated numbers | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On October 11 2013 01:09 Ghost-z wrote: Zephyr was a good buy before when his W gave you AD. Now it's just way too much AS if you buy a zephyr IMO. I did read a Riot post about how Olaf is in a good spot for balancing now and they are leaning towards buffing E slightly, increasing the AS on rank 1 W, and possibly reducing the min range Q just a small amount in the next couple patches. This seems like a good change, since Olaf's main problem seems to be getting through early-game without feeding or hugging tower. | ||
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