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HughMyron
297 Posts
I think my mistake was a build one, I didn't get any MR besides Blues and Masteries. I reasoned that their team didn't have much Hard CC, and had little shortrange mobility, so I could get Zerker Greaves for splitting. Also I built Brutalizer instead of Hexdrinker. Vlad, on the other hand, had an early Ninja Tabi and crap. I guess the resists paid off. You learn something new every game. I need to stop undervaluing Mercs. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 12 2012 18:53 HughMyron wrote: Heh, I think I need to work on my Vlad matchup. Just had a game where I got an early gank for a kill, then I dived him at level 5 and killed him again. But at level 9 I lost the exchange and died (he had like 100 health). I think my mistake was a build one, I didn't get any MR besides Blues and Masteries. I reasoned that their team didn't have much Hard CC, and had little shortrange mobility, so I could get Zerker Greaves for splitting. Also I built Brutalizer instead of Hexdrinker. Vlad, on the other hand, had an early Ninja Tabi and crap. I guess the resists paid off. You learn something new every game. I need to stop undervaluing Mercs. I doubt this had much to do with your resistances. Brutalizer is great against casters since they tend not to get any armor early on besides maybe Tabi, and while Mercs would probably have been a much better choice, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. With Vlad being THAT weak early on on you being THAT strong, you should be able to zone him from any creeps. Vlad is a very binary champ: If you let him reach lvl 9 without giving him too much trouble, he's going to be a threat. A real threat. He's stupidly strong with a combination of Revolver / Tabi / Level 9. If you manage to shut him down early enough, he is going to have a really hard time closing that gap you created. Considering you killed him twice before he killed you, I'd guess you simply misjudged the situation. With the gold lead you had, assuming you CSd well and zoned him off of CS of his own, there should be no way he can kill you without you diving him. That one kill CAN be enough to snowball the lane back into his favor depending on wether he managed to let you lose enough CS and XP. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
Considering you killed him twice before he killed you, I'd guess you simply misjudged the situation. With the gold lead you had, assuming you CSd well and zoned him off of CS of his own, there should be no way he can kill you without you diving him. That one kill CAN be enough to snowball the lane back into his favor depending on wether he managed to let you lose enough CS and XP. I think I may have Heartseekered sideways instead of at him during the exchange too, but I don't have a replay so I don't remember. Also I was watching Arch Angeloid play yesterday on the Featured Games, and I was intrigued by his playstyle. He doesn't stack DBlades, he just gets a fast Brut, Phage, and LW. This means he loses lanes against Doran Stackers, but his power in early teamfights is vastly increased. Not sure about his late Infinity's Edge though. Then again, I guess he could have got Rabadon's Deathcap with a score like 21/7/x. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:11 HughMyron wrote: I think I may have Heartseekered sideways instead of at him during the exchange too, but I don't have a replay so I don't remember. Also I was watching Arch Angeloid play yesterday on the Featured Games, and I was intrigued by his playstyle. He doesn't stack DBlades, he just gets a fast Brut, Phage, and LW. This means he loses lanes against Doran Stackers, but his power in early teamfights is vastly increased. Not sure about his late Infinity's Edge though. Then again, I guess he could have got Rabadon's Deathcap with a score like 21/7/x. it's a cheesy and bad build, but he's good at playing the playstyle so it works for him. don't forget that it's a bad build though. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:13 Mogwai wrote: it's a cheesy and bad build, but he's good at playing the playstyle so it works for him. don't forget that it's a bad build though. Yeah I know. But while we're on the subject of cheesy builds, what do you think of the new Amumu builds (off topic I know) that focus on a DRing Stack into big items like Sunfire/Abby or Rylai? Sometimes they even get Mob Boots. I think Azingy may have popularized them, but not sure. I've been having more success with them than the typical GP/10 into Shurelia/Aegis specs. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
EDIT: also wtf, this is the Pantheon thread... highly off topic :p. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
If Riot ever releases the AD Caster item, it will probably make Pantheon FotM (and Riven/Urgot broken, hehe). | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 13 2012 15:29 HughMyron wrote: How many Panth players here smartcast E by default (I mean they set the keybind [E] to smartcast it)? I've been doing it, but I often find myself Heartseekering in wrong directions, so I was thinking of moving it to standard cast, since seeing the cone helps. But I also thought it might be noob not to smartcast it. I do, but I have done that for about 6 months for all champions, so I eventually got used to it. Nowadays, I modified my input.ini so my normal casts are on Shift+QWER. It's a compromise for when playing champions I don't really play as much and need to pull off clutch plays. Here's a thread showing you how to do it. Also, fuck what others think is noob. Whatever works for you works. People have called me noob for building Pantheon the way this guide suggests, people have called me noob for starting blue as Lee Sin without ever asking my reasoning behind it. My point is: as long as you are enjoying yourself and the game, it doesn't matter if some spoiled internet brat thinks not smartcasting it is nooby. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 13 2012 15:53 Shiv. wrote: I do, but I have done that for about 6 months for all champions, so I eventually got used to it. Nowadays, I modified my input.ini so my normal casts are on Shift+QWER. It's a compromise for when playing champions I don't really play as much and need to pull off clutch plays. Here's a thread showing you how to do it. Also, fuck what others think is noob. Whatever works for you works. People have called me noob for building Pantheon the way this guide suggests, people have called me noob for starting blue as Lee Sin without ever asking my reasoning behind it. My point is: as long as you are enjoying yourself and the game, it doesn't matter if some spoiled internet brat thinks not smartcasting it is nooby. I smartcast everything but for those clutch situations I eh... click <_< | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
On June 13 2012 15:53 Shiv. wrote: I do, but I have done that for about 6 months for all champions, so I eventually got used to it. Nowadays, I modified my input.ini so my normal casts are on Shift+QWER. It's a compromise for when playing champions I don't really play as much and need to pull off clutch plays. Here's a thread showing you how to do it. Also, fuck what others think is noob. Whatever works for you works. People have called me noob for building Pantheon the way this guide suggests, people have called me noob for starting blue as Lee Sin without ever asking my reasoning behind it. My point is: as long as you are enjoying yourself and the game, it doesn't matter if some spoiled internet brat thinks not smartcasting it is nooby. Why do you start blue as Lee Sin? | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
Because with Cloth 5, Exhaust and a good leash, there's a surprisingly high number of junglers you can kill for first blood at their wraiths by simply camping the brush behind red. I don't always do it, but nowadays, I do it more often than the more common wraiths -> red start. It's also great because it leaves you open to counter half of their jungle if they decide to lvl 2 gank after blue. Anyway, can we get back on track with this thread? | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i was wondering what sort of difficulties you have in ranked play as pantheon in any lane; are there any specific characters that you actually feel a disadvantage against? i know that when i play jungle pantheon, i feel my champion has a very strong presence from early to mid game. i am just unable to pick or farm the right items in time for fights nearing the late game, and it feels harder and harder when deaths become more costly. i guess my curiosity in the different sort of play in ranked games creates very general questions and i'm sorry. what sort of dangers do you look out for the most when you play a serious game as pantheon in ranked? | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 15 2012 00:23 nanaoei wrote: i am relatively new to ranked games and have been playing normal games across all roles for a while, but have always leaned towards AD and hybrid AP/AD characters and playstyles for a while---and so i've always leaned towards champs like pantheon! i was wondering what sort of difficulties you have in ranked play as pantheon in any lane; are there any specific characters that you actually feel a disadvantage against? i know that when i play jungle pantheon, i feel my champion has a very strong presence from early to mid game. i am just unable to pick or farm the right items in time for fights nearing the late game, and it feels harder and harder when deaths become more costly. i guess my curiosity in the different sort of play in ranked games creates very general questions and i'm sorry. what sort of dangers do you look out for the most when you play a serious game as pantheon in ranked? You want to ban Malphite, because he shits on you six ways to sunday. There's other champs I personally dislike playing against (Yorick, Olaf for example). Pantheon usually goes top lane or mid lane, and due to his E and him autoattacking enemy champs frequently, he tends to push the lane quite heavily. Both lanes are prone to camping from the enemy jungler, so that is something to look out for. Other than that, to make full use of Pantheon, you need to decimate your lane opponent. Going even in farm with your enemy works for some champions; Panth isn't one of them. Make sure to kill your opponent, kill him frequently, and then start roaming or gank side lanes. A good strategy is if you just recalled, tell your jungler to go top and soak up XP and gank bot lane by just running down the lane far enough to use your ultimate. Especially in the lower elo brackets, people don't expect that sort of stuff and get caught off guard by it. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 15 2012 00:23 nanaoei wrote: i am relatively new to ranked games and have been playing normal games across all roles for a while, but have always leaned towards AD and hybrid AP/AD characters and playstyles for a while---and so i've always leaned towards champs like pantheon! i was wondering what sort of difficulties you have in ranked play as pantheon in any lane; are there any specific characters that you actually feel a disadvantage against? i know that when i play jungle pantheon, i feel my champion has a very strong presence from early to mid game. i am just unable to pick or farm the right items in time for fights nearing the late game, and it feels harder and harder when deaths become more costly. i guess my curiosity in the different sort of play in ranked games creates very general questions and i'm sorry. what sort of dangers do you look out for the most when you play a serious game as pantheon in ranked? first of all, if you haven't read the OP, you should. It's still very relevant and may answer some of your questions about playstyle. As far as poor matchups go, basically pantheon loses to champs that either outtrade him (which are admittedly pretty few), and champs that have 0 opportunity cost to build shitloads of armor to counter him. Examples of the second are malphite and chogath, who can literally just build a bunch of chainvest items and lose out on nothing (whereas other champs have huge dips in power due to lack of dmg), thereby nullifying a vast amount of panth's dmg. Another type of champ that gives panth trouble are the ones that are, quite simply, designed to give melee champs a hard time. Yorick, urgot, kennen and swain can cause problems for pantheon because of this issue. there are also a few champs that, after a certain point, panth really cannot threaten with a kill, thereby forcing a farm lane, which tends to be favorable for said champs. I've noticed this most with vlad and gp lanes. another note regarding laning: Panth is quite vulnerable to ganks, meaning you have to be very aware of what the enemy jungler is doing. If your spidey-sense is even slightly tingling, you have to be very careful about engaging with your opponent. RE: jungle panth. That's kind of a universal jungle panth problem you're describing that simply arises due to his super low clear speed, meaning you end up with issues transitioning into the late game out of the jungle due to low cash flow. I would try to focus building more towards utility and tankiness and play to babysit the carry (i would think getting stuff like omen or mallet would be a good idea) rather than any damage-oriented builds. Admittedly, i'm not much of a jungle panth player tho, so smash or some other ppl might have more to say about that. Also, my typical panth laning experience is with ~1400 - 1500 ish players, so it may be a bit different at different elo ranges. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1960 Posts
The biggest problem you are going to have at this elo is, however, that you will only be able to pick top if you are 1st or 2nd pick. Therefore, you can't really counterpick and it's pretty much a gamble whom you get top. Jungle panth at this level is terrible, because you can't kill people on your own without items. So you are reliant on your laners to do good damage and they usually won't. My jungle games tend to feauture 2 level 2 ganks with the enemies barely getting away due to no damge from laners, then í will need 20 minutes to reach level 6 to be a threat again, while shaco get's fed by my laners. QQ. | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
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