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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
After like lvl 11 it's simple to withstand the harrass with the lifesteal, but it's very difficult to get to that point in the first place if the enemy is really strong at around lvl 1. Should I just try to go for an exhaust + Q harrassing attempt right at the start of the laning to bring their hp down a little? Should I skill W at lvl 1? Should I max W first and try to go for trades? | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
Did you read the guide? I max Q first. More CDR puts it down to 2.4 seconds. okay... you just nitpicked probably the least relevant detail of the entire post. the point was that when Q is maxed it has a short enough cooldown that you can get pretty much every creep with it. | ||
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:18 Odds wrote: I wonder, maybe ghostblade would be good to help with his gap closing issues and arpen and cdr on nasus always good. I'd rather have Shurelya's, tbh. And getting double movespeed actives is a bit silly. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:31 Juicyfruit wrote: I don't think you get enough damage out of ghostblade for its cost. It's more of a good mid-game roaming item...which isn't really what Nasus is about. You underestimate Ghostblade by a lot. The potential problem I see with Ghostblade on Nasus is that it only provides pure offense. I would skip Sheen if I were to try Ghostblade on Nasus. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:18 Odds wrote: I wonder, maybe ghostblade would be good to help with his gap closing issues and arpen and cdr on nasus always good. Ghostblade not that good on him IMO. Sheen is a much better damage item on him, and Shurelya's allows him to gap close. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On August 11 2011 05:53 Shikyo wrote: Ok so I've tried Nasus some and I really have problems actually laning. If they have someone strong like Akali, Jax, or an AP caster like Cassiopeia, Brand etc. on solo top, I really have problems surviving. Especially Akali feels impossible, then I'm almost forced to maxing E and spamming it to farm but that makes my Q really weak. After like lvl 11 it's simple to withstand the harrass with the lifesteal, but it's very difficult to get to that point in the first place if the enemy is really strong at around lvl 1. Should I just try to go for an exhaust + Q harrassing attempt right at the start of the laning to bring their hp down a little? Should I skill W at lvl 1? Should I max W first and try to go for trades? Early trades with Q+auto hit I do a lot. When they go for harass you should punish it with whither. You shouldn't bother using E in lane, at least if they are zoning you, let them push to tower. Jax can't do anything to you pre-6. You heal more, and he can't afford to harass you with your whither and Q follow up. Akali is a bitch but just stay away from her shroud when she casts it. Brand is a matter of dodging as many of is skillshots as you can and afk farming. Cass owns you I don't think you can lane versus her, the speed and damage is too much and you can't dodge every poison. Starting to reevaulate getting trinity force so late. The chasing power is huge for random small fights around the map that happen all the time in solo queue, or arriving late for clean up. The only time you don't want it is in 5v5 teamfights which don't happen that much early on anyway. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
Starting to reevaulate getting trinity force so late. The chasing power is huge for random small fights around the map that happen all the time in solo queue, or arriving late for clean up. The only time you don't want it is in 5v5 teamfights which don't happen that much early on anyway. No no no no no bad bad bad Triforce is way too much gold for not enough tankiness early on. CDR gives you pretty damn good chasing power with permawither. Also Shurelya's active. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On August 11 2011 06:40 spinesheath wrote: You underestimate Ghostblade by a lot. The potential problem I see with Ghostblade on Nasus is that it only provides pure offense. I would skip Sheen if I were to try Ghostblade on Nasus. Not really. I'm not disputing ghostblade's standalone power midgame as a balanced DPS item, but it's simply not a good investment for late-game and I don't really get the impression that Nasus can accomplish as much with it midgame rushing it as say... a Yi. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
For example, chances are they have a hard time focusing you anyway unless you specifically have to intiate fights. If you avoid them and keep farming and they don't get coordinated it can work out. I'll need to test it more though, definitely not feeling the chasing power without it. i'll have to try the perma whither though. The only game I got to play Nasus today the whole team fed and i managed to take out their ashe anyway so maybe its OP. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
Currently I'm opening cloth 5 pot | armor/apen/farmor/fresist 0/21/9 with flash/tp. My goal is just do whatever is necessary to farm that q and your items in lane, while teleport for important teamfights and later splitpushing, etc. Cloth 5pot because it allows for a little more tankyness and flexibility of 5pots vs pendent pot where if you make some bad trades you might need to use your teleport. I like to conserve mana only to q and w if the enemy commits to an exchange. Also I go for FH which uses the cloth anyway (or the offchance you get dodge boots, but it's always been mercs for me.) philo/boots/pots/ward with first back, unless you have more gold to spare. Usually I get a mantle here or a chainmail for glacial shroud and extra tankiness. I'm also thinking about chalice since at this points you might use your qwe combo more offensively since q is on short cd and it should be beefed up a bit. I think you definitely run out of mana if you q every chance per wave (even if not all 6/7 per wave) so chalice might be a cheap way to keep up with manapool early-midgame. Sometime midgame I usually push tower with a (counter)gank because his qwer is so damn strong and you're beefy with your runes, masteries, and items. Here on your play accordingly, pushing with e + q if you need to push and pressure somewhere else, or just q if you're farming just q. My final item setup looks to be mercs/FH/Shurelia's/warmogs/LW + whatever you need. I find SR |FH 35% cdr very useful, giving cost-efficient stats you want (cept some of SR but it's made from philo and the active is useful). Warmogs because you have good armor/mr and it gives you super-beefiness to take on enemies. I think removing this makes you vulnerable to bursts. LW because I run only 15 apen from reds and tanks with 250 armor can be a pain, and others have FH/Hourglass... I think it's a must-have item for endgame. As for the last slot... sometimes it's GA, FoN for MR or BV if needed. Or Randuin's. Basically my goal is to farm q to sufficient levels early-midgame. I don't know, need more experience but I think mercs/LW/FH/SR is a good always-have item because together they provide needed stats. Maybe some combination of Triforce + tanky item of choice is better whether it be warmogs for hp, Randuin/GA for armor and FoN/QSS (usually over bveil) for mr is better. Need more experience... Also I haven't played vs new teemo but long ago I couldn't beat him. zzzzzz morning rant. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On August 11 2011 22:12 Wala.Revolution wrote: Currently I'm opening cloth 5 pot | armor/apen/farmor/fresist 0/21/9 with flash/tp. My goal is just do whatever is necessary to farm that q and your items in lane, while teleport for important teamfights and later splitpushing, etc. Is that supposed to mean: APen marks flat Armor seals flat MRes glyphs flat Armor quints If so, why do you open cloth + 5 with that and 21 defense? That's overkill on armor against most (if not all) top laners. Regrowth + 1 or Boots + 3 should be fine... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
If I were to play differently, say more focused on suppressing/zoning lanes rather than stacking q, I could definitely switch. But I play it so q is the focus of everything early-mid game so... 300-600 extra damage is usually my goal. Also that's my general setup. If I know I'm going to vs someone than I will tailor it to armor/mr whatever to make it more advantageous for me. I suppose apen qunits can be of more use than armor/mr quints. | ||
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Makavw
Croatia165 Posts
Like i said nasus cannot dominate just about anyone in lane untill he gets sheen with decent farm, before that he simply cannot trade blows. And because he cannot trade blows, its very hard to get last hits in when you are a melee with no gap closer. 90% of games i play this people go solo top : jax,irelia,jarvan,xin,gragas,cass, malz, udyr, akali. Nasus first of all cant really beat any of them apart maybe jax. Is kind of even with irelia but other people will blow him out of the water. (havent tried vs malz). Akali will hardcore counter him and you cannot do anything about that. His early game is sooo weak with q beeing on milion second cooldown and you also MUST use it on creeps :/. Sure, nasus atfer level 7 with sheen can pretty much stand against anyone, but before that you are likley to go underfarmed and maybe killed. So my issuse is that people CAN counterpick nasus easily, he has weaknesses and that is a problem unless he is last pick. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 12 2011 01:25 Makavw wrote: I tried nasus some more and i just dont see him solo top, i get much better results with irelia then with nasus. Like i said nasus cannot dominate just about anyone in lane untill he gets sheen with decent farm, before that he simply cannot trade blows. And because he cannot trade blows, its very hard to get last hits in when you are a melee with no gap closer. 90% of games i play this people go solo top : jax,irelia,jarvan,xin,gragas,cass, malz, udyr, akali. Nasus first of all cant really beat any of them apart maybe jax. Is kind of even with irelia but other people will blow him out of the water. (havent tried vs malz). Akali will hardcore counter him and you cannot do anything about that. His early game is sooo weak with q beeing on milion second cooldown and you also MUST use it on creeps :/. Sure, nasus atfer level 7 with sheen can pretty much stand against anyone, but before that you are likley to go underfarmed and maybe killed. So my issuse is that people CAN counterpick nasus easily, he has weaknesses and that is a problem unless he is last pick. If u grab early points in whither you shouldn't have a problem against champs that rely in autos to exchange blows. In other words, jax irelia jarvan udyr will all outburst you but they can never commit because whither will just totally rape them. You will definitely have to open with philo, maybe a hog, and will maybe have get an early resist item depending on what your lane opponents dmg mostly is. You're right tho in that nasus is easily countered. Akali and teemo both rape nasus really really fuckin hard Also nasus goal in lane isn't to harass or trade blows really. It's to farm up your q and ur items. That said, if a kill or gank or easy harass opportunity presents itself you should still go for it. Just number 1 priority is to farm farm farm | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Added content for laning against hard opponents from what I learned in solo queue at higher elo and recently watching wickds style of skipping gold/10 and just building to counter the enemy lane and teamcomp, with flat health regen quints and flat armour/mr runes. Removed more of the BS and rambling and generalized and made things more concise. Removed brutalizer/ghostblade based builds because I've never seen them work and have never found them useful compared to standard stuff. Nasus is really strong ATM since people figured out how to rune/mastery/build so that you can't be forced out of lane by anyone really in a game with a jungler to stop gross overextending. People dislike not being able to "dominate" lane but free farming as Nasus is pretty much dominating your lane. He's not that easily countered any more. I've seen garens being able to get farm vs teemo and Nasus has free 14% lifesteal and a Q that lifesteals even more. Garen can't catch teemo anyway, I think philo/hog is more something you do when the lane isn't trying to hard counter you, while dorans shield or cloth+% starts//null magic starts are the ones you take vs lanes who try to rape you early on. Also heavy defense specs I'm using more and more over utility simply because a strong early game is WAY more important than a slightly stronger mid game. Also reread the thread. Would like to respond to purple cows posts I think we were arguing about frozen heart being good or bad and this post: On August 11 2011 06:55 APurpleCow wrote: No no no no no bad bad bad Triforce is way too much gold for not enough tankiness early on. CDR gives you pretty damn good chasing power with permawither. Also Shurelya's active. Trinity force is DEFINITELY not bad. Nasus with trinity force still is tanky as fuck with his ultimate and trinity force at level 16 giving him like 3k health with HoG as well. This doesn't mean you can rambo into their whole team but you are definitely tankier than most bruisers with trinity force. (And have a safer initiate). Any time the team will mostly be ignoring you you want trinity force and not full tank nasus. (I.E double AP+AD carry comps CAN NOT ignore you and you should probably get full tank with fon or warmogs to regen the poke and high resists in general Frozen hard is DEFINITELY not bad. However it's not that cost effective as a pure tank+cdr item but I would get it in full tank nasus builds when I need to max my CDR but had to go mercs//ninja tabi. Trinity+Frozen heart builds I dislike though. If you're going trinity anywhere before 5th/6th item I wouldn't get it. Either trinity+ga or frozen heart+more tanky+cdr shit. You don't NEED trinity and you don't NEED max cdr so you need to figure out what you need more. If you need to be a tank or a bruiser so to say. I also dislike sheen only builds. Sheen gives the only 2 useless stats out of the whole trinity force. (I know mana has value in lane but in teamfights it's usually not worth anything). If you're building sheen, might as well get trinity fast. Phage gives health and zeal gives movement speed and they both help your survivability anyway. Just sheen for lane is good but it's a lane dominator and you shouldn't need to dominate your lane as Nasus you just want to farm. Also sheen+banshee+frozen heart builds I've seen a couple times. total lol. Having more mana than hp is a BAD thing when some AP carries don't build a single mana item. (and don't need blue either) | ||
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br0fivE
Canada349 Posts
SHEEN is a must with nasus, either rush for it or get it after armor (if your getting beat in lane) always get sheen and Q farm the hell out of him, then he pretty much turns into god if you let him farm. At first hes a lil difficult to play but you get used to it. Been doing straight DPS builds for nasus and he is one of the best champs right now (my opinion) always max Q first. and i think the best start item for him would be boots/pots, all other others dont make much sence | ||
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Schmieds
United States312 Posts
I'm not sure if I agree with the poster above me though on doing straight DPS, I find Q with such a low CD to do enough damage, just in my experience though. | ||
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