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If you want legit nasus info for this season here it is, of course they are still adding stuff so this is what it optimal atm.
first of all the mastery setup is correct but not the choices.
You want sorcery not the attack speed. with proper resetting with Q attack speed is like the most useless nasus stat ever. 2% on even just your ult is way better.
double edged sword is a must for top lane, its too strong not to take in a 1v1 scenario. (even in 1v2, you go even)
veteran's scars is complete garbage, runic armor is amazing as it affects your sustain and also abuse cases like visage + runic armor soraka healing. Or just think about how bad veteran's scars is. you get 120hp at 3k hp, yea its bad.
new build is pretty much iceborn gauntlet as soon as possible as its obscenely broken cost effectiveness wise. As soon as you get this item your lane opponent can just pack it in the lanes over. Gauntlet/visage is enough cd to cover you for what is necessary without taking bad items.
Merc treads rarely worth it anymore unless they are super magic heavy as you already get a free 15% tenacity.
steraks, titanic hydra, death's dance are some interesting offensive choices
deadman's plate pretty much mandatory after core items complete
no other MR item is worth getting except visage
enjoy
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Attack speed is useful on Nasus to last hit, especially for taking out ranged minions with AA-tower-AA very early on when you're pushed.
I mostly agree with the rest of your analysis - I've switched over to runic armor and have been gambling with Double-Edged Sword more and more. It's slightly risky if you are in a lane where you really have no desire whatsoever to trade, but it's definitely a ton of damage.
I do think that's an interesting approach to solve the CDR problem discussed earlier. I'll have to give it a try - IBG was always a noob trap. But IBG + SV kind of solves all of the problems: no more buying nerfed FH, no more awkward CDR plateaus. The only thing you miss out on is Phage + Trinity damage.
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I don't think you miss the damage too much, honestly phage is only a little attack damage and the move speed from that plus zeal isn't huge. I feel like ibg gives more sticking power than trinity especially since you have wither. Poor fucker will basically be stopped with wither plus ibg and dmp slows haha.
Also the slow field scaling with armor on ibg is pretty huge. No pun intended
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Well, is IBG one of those "win more" deals? Like if you get close enough to smack them with the Q, are they ever going to escape you anyway? I find my problems in team fights is landing that first Q ... once I get the Q off they are probably dead. But maybe I'm experiencing selection bias.
Put another way - in what kind of situation would the slow from IBG get you a kill that the greater damage / movement speed / Phage proc from Trinity Force could not?
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I'll defer to others, but my thought is this:
Trinity: you build sheen and phage for 2.3K. Decent amount of power but then you gotta farm another 1.5K before you can complete it (this is what kills it for me, zeal gives stats that feel only very slightly useful for Nasus). Total is 3.8K.
Iceborn gauntlet: you build sheen, then glacial. Both give you power-- glacial is good defense (against melee and lets you ignore minion damage which can be annoying esp with current creep block), you never run out of mana unless you spam very hard, lots of cdr. Components total is 2K, combine is 650 for 2700 total. Much smoother build path.
The advantages of Trinity seem to be some additional movespeed primarily, some hp secondarily and then a hodgepodge of crit and attackspeed which are marginally useful.
-I'd argue that your slow field can largely make up for the movespeed, plus the fact that you could easily afford boots2 (or boots1 + item) with the gold difference.
-Far as hp goes, I'm unsure if the math works out but I'd say against phys dmg you get comparable ehp benefit from IBG's armor, and again, you have gold to buy hp items. Nasus also is a champ that does well with resists because of his ult and passive lifesteal.
-The other stats are meh
tl;dr you get a lot of trinity, but 3.8K could be spent in a smoother and more effective way that include IBG.
I'm not sure how to address the specific situation you gave, but here's some theoretical math: Assume champs have 380 movespeed (boot2 puts most champs around there). Phage gives you +20 movespeed (add on 5% for Trinity), so Nasus is at 420 compared to enemy's 380. IBG gives a 30% slow, so 380*.7 = 266. There's a lot of other factors at play, but the movespeed differential with IBG seems like it'd be bigger. Random math more than anything, may not reflect real life etc.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I totally agree that IBG is such an easier build path than TF. I hate that feeling when you have Sheen + Phage and are just waiting for Zeal + combine cost.
I'm just trying to figure out whether the IBG slow has any point. Because with Wither, if you can already land a Q on someone, there's basically no way they can get away from you anyway. The additional IBG slow might mean very little when you have a 5s 35-95% slow on a 6.6s cooldown.
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In the current meta with how games are a lot faster generally it is good to get earlier power spikes.
With how easy it is to get armor in this meta the frozen fist scaling is just fucking crazy too.
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lets put it this way, IBG could have no slow and still be an insanely cost efficient and good item. its completely irrelevant
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So I played a quick game against a Garen who I utterly destroyed, not sure if he was bad or what
I started cloth and 2 pots against him. Lvl 1-2 I played kind of passive because idk how the MU works, I suppose you cs and then he Q's you and spins on your face which kinda sucks. I let him push while sitting in xp range and grabbing the odd minion. Got a successful FB gank from Kindred which was nice, got some stacks, pushed in the lane and finished shroud + boots1. Farmed a bit more, at this point I think we trade similarly but I come out ahead cuz lifesteal. I don't mind going evenish because I think that's my win; me getting stacks means I'll be stronger than him midgame.
I give up a couple dumb deaths to their jungle eve. Still, I'm farming pretty well and Garen's pretty crap cs becomes really crappy as I zone the heck out of him with a Q that chunks him. I go off splitting eventually tele for teamfights, pick up a few kills. They're going 5 mid and shoving up real hard, though a couple times they try and send someone to deal with me and realize they can't 1v1. I just end up backing or walking over to cut them off and get easy kills. Finish my visage, buy DMP then kinda unsure what to buy. I end up getting a negatron so I can lol at magic damage and the furor boots upgrade.
Felt pretty comfortable, I think IBG is a pretty duh choice against phys damage. Unless you spam E hard, no mana problems whatsoever. I think you can choose glacial if you want to be passive, or sheen if you feel comfortable dueling (as a noob Nasus, I took the former route). Had a pretty easy time stacking, think I was at around 500 when we ended at 30. Dunno if good or bad, but felt like I was doing good.
Against Garen, IBG was niiice. he was forced to use his Q to cleanse the IBG slow, but then I just withered him. Also, titanic hydra + q is a pretty disgusting combo, you get 2x AA resets. DMP-Auto-Q+sheen-hydra is pretty disgusting
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United States37500 Posts
On December 05 2015 16:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
If you want legit nasus info for this season here it is, of course they are still adding stuff so this is what it optimal atm.
first of all the mastery setup is correct but not the choices.
You want sorcery not the attack speed. with proper resetting with Q attack speed is like the most useless nasus stat ever. 2% on even just your ult is way better.
double edged sword is a must for top lane, its too strong not to take in a 1v1 scenario. (even in 1v2, you go even)
veteran's scars is complete garbage, runic armor is amazing as it affects your sustain and also abuse cases like visage + runic armor soraka healing. Or just think about how bad veteran's scars is. you get 120hp at 3k hp, yea its bad.
new build is pretty much iceborn gauntlet as soon as possible as its obscenely broken cost effectiveness wise. As soon as you get this item your lane opponent can just pack it in the lanes over. Gauntlet/visage is enough cd to cover you for what is necessary without taking bad items.
Merc treads rarely worth it anymore unless they are super magic heavy as you already get a free 15% tenacity.
steraks, titanic hydra, death's dance are some interesting offensive choices
deadman's plate pretty much mandatory after core items complete
no other MR item is worth getting except visage
enjoy
Is Death's Dance really worth it? I don't remember the last time I got a purely offensive item on dog.
Edit: Also I've been going Ghost/Ignite (after seeing Dylan go Flash/Ignite on his dog), which has been working pretty well. Usually you'd imagine X/TP so you can get back to lane faster and farm more stacks. But with Ghost, you can usually get 2-3 Q's off in lane duels and then the Ignite for a kicker. Mid to late game, between Ghost/Wither/IBG slow, you can chase carries until their die.
I had an Azir try to poke me and do some fancy shuffles but tried to run away after the first Q connected. But even with his dash and Flash, Wither lasts forever if you don't have Tenacity and it was pretty easy to run up to him after he Flashed around a wall and get a second Q in for the kill.
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IMO Steraks + Iceborne and 300 Stacks is enough to nuke anyone thats not a full tank into orbit.
Steraks is just the perfect tank and damage hybrid if you need a bit more oompf.
Only downside is you probably need to delay it until 3rd or 4th item, you need Visage or DMP first in most games.
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On December 15 2015 18:19 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2015 16:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
If you want legit nasus info for this season here it is, of course they are still adding stuff so this is what it optimal atm.
first of all the mastery setup is correct but not the choices.
You want sorcery not the attack speed. with proper resetting with Q attack speed is like the most useless nasus stat ever. 2% on even just your ult is way better.
double edged sword is a must for top lane, its too strong not to take in a 1v1 scenario. (even in 1v2, you go even)
veteran's scars is complete garbage, runic armor is amazing as it affects your sustain and also abuse cases like visage + runic armor soraka healing. Or just think about how bad veteran's scars is. you get 120hp at 3k hp, yea its bad.
new build is pretty much iceborn gauntlet as soon as possible as its obscenely broken cost effectiveness wise. As soon as you get this item your lane opponent can just pack it in the lanes over. Gauntlet/visage is enough cd to cover you for what is necessary without taking bad items.
Merc treads rarely worth it anymore unless they are super magic heavy as you already get a free 15% tenacity.
steraks, titanic hydra, death's dance are some interesting offensive choices
deadman's plate pretty much mandatory after core items complete
no other MR item is worth getting except visage
enjoy Is Death's Dance really worth it? I don't remember the last time I got a purely offensive item on dog. Edit: Also I've been going Ghost/Ignite (after seeing Dylan go Flash/Ignite on his dog), which has been working pretty well. Usually you'd imagine X/TP so you can get back to lane faster and farm more stacks. But with Ghost, you can usually get 2-3 Q's off in lane duels and then the Ignite for a kicker. Mid to late game, between Ghost/Wither/IBG slow, you can chase carries until their die. I had an Azir try to poke me and do some fancy shuffles but tried to run away after the first Q connected. But even with his dash and Flash, Wither lasts forever if you don't have Tenacity and it was pretty easy to run up to him after he Flashed around a wall and get a second Q in for the kill.
yea since i made that post I actually rarely even go for DMP anymore unless im backdooring at the movespeed is really important for that. My new 40% cd is IBG, visage, death dance for a perfect 40% and i like it a lot. your qs heal you for so much and the damage reduction is very noticable. I hardly even see it as an offensive item. Its probably an overtuned item for people that ad is actually good on. Seems really stupid on people like zed/wukong/etc
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What are your thoughts on DMP +IBG + Titanic? Auto w/ DMP -> auto w/ sheen+Q +auto w/ hydra combo abuses a double auto reset. Base auto damage at 18 is 119 + 50 + 35 (estimate of hydra on-hit) for ~200. You get that 3x, then add in 100 from DMP, 350 from hydra, 148 from sheen (assuming IBG) and whatever amount you have on Q. That's a pseudo-burst of 1200 when you don't count Q at all.
Death's dance is absolutely stupid on wukong, you literally can't kill him if he gets it. It seems like a good item on Nasus, but kind of a if-ahead-get-more-ahead item/ 6th item.
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United States37500 Posts
Surprising DMP got dropped from your item build. How do you itemize against a 4-5 enemy AD team then? Problem with IBG is that while it's really cost effective with good proc, you have no HP. Then going SV next doesn't solve any of your problems because you're still light on armor then.
I tend to save 6th slot for either Thornmail or Omen, depending on the type of AD I need to negate more. Guess it's the nature of the meta but enemy teams have been consistently skewed towards AD over AP preseason.
I'll work in Death's Dance more in my dog games this week. Prob as a 4th item or so.
Edit: also, starting to realize that even with 4+ items and 250++ stacks, there are still certain champs you don't 1v1 against when they have their ulti up. e.g. equal item Yasuo and Illaoi.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I assume that's a typo because if you have 4 items and only 250 stacks you're either insanely underfarmed or insanely overfed ...
The one champion I always fear as Nasus is Trundle - you simply cannot 1v1 that mofo.
Death's Dance is quite interesting. I'll give it a try. Maw of Malmortious is a great item on him too. But I worry that too many of these hybrid offense/defense items make him a lot less tanky.
Maybe a more sensible way to do this is to make a list of all of Nasus's potential items:
IBG (I'm officially off the Triforce wagon and solidly in the IBG camp, but if I were building Triforce I'd definitely buy Frozen Heart)
Spirit Visage
Sterak's Gage
Dead Man's Plate
Death's Dance
Maw of Malmortious
Guardian Angel
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On December 17 2015 00:12 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I assume that's a typo because if you have 4 items and only 250 stacks you're either insanely underfarmed or insanely overfed ...
The one champion I always fear as Nasus is Trundle - you simply cannot 1v1 that mofo.
Death's Dance is quite interesting. I'll give it a try. Maw of Malmortious is a great item on him too. But I worry that too many of these hybrid offense/defense items make him a lot less tanky.
Maybe a more sensible way to do this is to make a list of all of Nasus's potential items:
IBG (I'm officially off the Triforce wagon and solidly in the IBG camp, but if I were building Triforce I'd definitely buy Frozen Heart)
Spirit Visage
Sterak's Gage
Dead Man's Plate
Death's Dance
Maw of Malmortious
Guardian Angel
GA I feel like is a win-more item on Nasus because if you die, there's a fair chance your team is dead already and nobody is going to be standing next to you when you come back up.
I suppose there's also locket if other team has lots of AP and your jungler/support are selfish fucks buying damage items. You aren't the worst locket carrier in the game. And of course, thornmail - for those games where the enemy team brings multiple AD's or single AD threat.
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From my experience anything with defense stats works on Nasus. You might wanna skip MR if opponent team is full AD.
Generally if I am feeling its farm time, i buy cd items.
If I feel I need to push I build something with sheen.
If I want to fight buy tier-2 boots.
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EPT
