EPT[Champion] Nasus - Page 30
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
After lvl10 I normally dont 1v1 Nasus anymore, cause he will shit all over me =D | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
On September 09 2014 00:13 GrandInquisitor wrote: I constantly see people pick Nidalee into Nasus and/or people complaining that Nidalee hardcounters their Nasus, and honestly, I just don't see it. Nidalee has some good burst, but as long as you're aware of it she has basically no kill pressure. You aren't going to yoloswag into the lane and bully her off the minion wave starting level 1, but it's not really that different than most Nasus lanes (and in fact much easier than against someone with CC like Ryze who has actual kill pressure). nidalee can sit in a bush with 450 movement speed and harass better than any ranged, and can also heal and waveclear which means the strat of trying to max E and harass/push won't work like it does against ryze and teemo. She has lots of kill pressure if she lands a spear or trap too. She's one of the toughest matchups i've played against though I suppose maxing E isn't ideal so ryze is still a decent pick against him but not teemo teemo sucks remove that champ fuck teemo. riven isn't like ryze at all, unless you are really behind, ryze has great damage output from range, riven has strong trading potential, you can deal with the trading once you get some armour but you can't do anything if you can't get to melee range vs a ryze with like 1500 mana to outdamage your sustain unless you max E ofc. | ||
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Taktik
Poland680 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On September 23 2014 00:18 Taktik wrote: If i see Nasus is it okay to pick strong late game tanks like Mundo / Maokai or is it will end in disaster? It seems that because of his passive it would be impossible to stop him after 30 minutes. Also if someone picked dog into my shyvana top lane, does my only option is to rush bork?? Not really okay. Neither pressures nasus hard enough, and it's not really worth letting nasus get a lane where without major misplays, he'll 2 shot squishies by 30 minutes. As for shyv, unless you're making plays around the map, yes. You need it to exert some kill pressure, it's not a lane you can win by proxying. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
I would love to hear other more experienced toplaners take on this, but thats the feel I get. In korean soloq games for example I rarely see the usual fotm comp. play picks. It's just that people copy the comp picks, but that doesnt mean they are good in soloq. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I think this is definitely the best mastery setup for him: http://efferentinc.com/wp-content/lol6calc/index.html#CvCvyYKxK0ClK Grasp of the Undying is stupidly good; it's just another easy way to heal up in lane now since you can proc it on minions and every so often tag your opponent with an AA for a free 3% heal and a won trade. Oppression is solid because of Frozen Heart, and even the huge impending nerf to Veteran's Scars won't faze you because Runic Armor is just fine. (I assume Sorcery does not work on Nasus Q, and that you aren't in such a free lane that you can take Double-Edged Sword.) On the other hand, his old 20% CDR at level 1 build doesn't really exist any more, since he can't get 5% from masteries with the above-mastery setup. (And even if you could, you still need 40% from other sources.) And with all the healing you can get, it might make more sense to prioritize Spirit Visage. So perhaps instead of 15% in runes, you can get away with just Sheen + FH + Spirit Visage and try to get by with 0% in lane? I haven't made up my mind on this front yet. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
I just sat on sheen for a while and turned it into iceborn later to get 40% with iceborn and visage, but it makes it harder to stack when the iceborn aoe hits minions so idk if this is the best way to do it. I'm going to experiment a bit more and report my findings | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Let's say you're against AD: Start: 10% Glacial Shroud: 20% Glacial Shroud + Sheen: 30% Frozen Heart + Sheen: 40% etc. Here the tradeoff is: do I care about 10% CDR at level 1 more than 3 glyphs of scaling MR, i.e., 9 MR at level 18? I think the answer is absolutely yes, and heck I would probably even still go for 15% CDR and get rid of the other 6 scaling MR glyphs altogether (18 MR at level 18). But against AP, what's your build path if you insist on no CDR in your runes? Start: 0% Kindlegem + Null Magic Mantle: 10% Kindlegem + Null Magic Mantle + Sheen: 20% Spirit Visage + Sheen: 20% Glacial Shroud + Spirit Visage + Sheen: 30% Frozen Heart + Spirit Visage + Sheen: 40% That really stinks, doesn't it? I suppose you could sit on Kindlegem + Sheen + Glacial Shroud, but that's components of three different items in your inventory and you still probably want a Null Magic Mantle in there somewhere. You could also get lucidity boots. I think the ultimate conclusion is that you just accept that Spirit Visage takes you over the CDR cap, because you want as much CDR as fast as possible. You'd still buy Spirit Visage even if it had 0% CDR, so who cares that you're "wasting" CDR? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
-Masteries: Not sure if that 3% thing is as good as you say. At 1k hp its 30 hp life steal, it's not terrible but not something you can't live without, you already have plenty of sustain. see: Lifesteal quint debate before. Other options: The other def tree things are really strong, but that utility thing might be good on him, it's like a minighost anytime you pop a squishy with an E+Q right? 3s of a 35% movement boost, could be worth it but its got a real long cd. CDR: You don't need to get flat CDRs, since Q cd isn't at its lowest till level 9 and thats around with cdr/lvl catches up, could be worth to go cdr/lvl instead. I'm not sure you want FH+sheen now against anything AP heavy. FH is hella expensive now so it's not necessarily the best buy for you if you're going trinity so you have some max mana to play with. Spirit+Trinity-->Ohmwrecker for example could be interesting. If you're split pushing with TP any withered squishy isn't going to be able to kite you if you have that utility mastery or even just the ohmwrecker movement boost on its own and you can just shut down the tower. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
And let's be real: this is not comparable to lifesteal quints. Your Lifesteal quints heal for what, 4.5%? For 4.5% to be healing you 30HP you'd have to be doing ~666 damage on each of your autos. The fact that you can only proc it every 4 seconds is fine for Nasus! He's not going to be in lane constantly fighting his opponent; he's going to be trying to stack Q. Now, though, every time the enemy comes in, he just tags them with an AA and instantly heals 20% of a healing potion. Also I agree that 3s of 35% movement speed sounds amazing, but I keep getting underwhelmed by it on every champion, and I'm not sure why. It just hasn't been that effective for me. Maybe because it overlaps with Phage too much? The point of flat CDR is exactly to lower your Q CDR while you haven't maxed Q yet. The sooner you can hit 30 stacks, the sooner you can hit 90, and 120, and 180, and so on. Scaling CDR is kinda silly on him because his ideal build path has 40% CDR anyway with Frozen Heart. Frozen Heart is the ideal buy mainly because it's a huge source of CDR + tankiness. There just aren't other 20% CDR tank items out there. If you run CDR runes then Frozen Heart + Sheen alone get you to 40%, and the build path is very smooth to boot. So long as you're against an AD lane I'd always still rush FH. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23342 Posts
On December 02 2015 05:49 GrandInquisitor wrote: The 3% heal is huge because it's not just a heal, it's damage to your opponent. It's not just about the sustain, it also helps him win trades in lane. So long as you are engaging with the minion wave at all, every 4 seconds just AA the enemy, have three free long swords while doing so, and instantly heal 30 HP. That's potentially over 400 HP per minute of sustain + 400 damage to your opponent. Also I agree that 3s of 35% movement speed sounds amazing, but I keep getting underwhelmed by it on every champion, and I'm not sure why. It just hasn't been that effective for me. Maybe because it overlaps with Phage too much? The point of flat CDR is exactly to lower your Q CDR while you haven't maxed Q yet. The sooner you can hit 30 stacks, the sooner you can hit 90, and 120, and 180, and so on. Scaling CDR is kinda silly on him because his ideal build path has 40% CDR anyway with Frozen Heart. Frozen Heart is the ideal buy mainly because it's a huge source of CDR + tankiness. There just aren't other 20% CDR tank items out there. If you run CDR runes then Frozen Heart + Sheen alone get you to 40%, and the build path is very smooth to boot. So long as you're against an AD lane I'd always still rush FH. I mean, if you are trading that frequently as nasus then you are probably winning anyway. How many people can out trade but not all in him anyway? That said, yeah it's obviously quite strong. I just think you are overrating it, it helps nasus do what he already excels at. If you can bully someone already it won't help too much, it only helps in the margin cases where you can't all in and lack just a little bit of trade strength. Can't really think of many situations that's applicable. Phage is not at all comparable to 35% movement speed lol Your reasoning about CDR is a bit meh. Getting faster to 90 just means you got to 90 faster. It's a flat scaling You stack Q really slowly early game. You have to lane and your cd is longer. If you have an 8 second CD, you might get 3-4 Q's a wave, if you have 10% cdr you'll get maybe another 3 stacks a wave or 6 stacks a minute. Once you hit level 9 and high cdr you're stacking much faster. With a 2.4 second Q you can clear a full minion+cannon wave and get 42 stacks in about 15 seconds. Now I don't know about you, but I don't really give a shit if I'm at 90 stacks or 110 stacks at 9:05 if I'm making a large sacrifice to get that. Any sort of advantage over that should help you leverage enough to farm another 40 stack wave in the future. You also have some weird reasoning around the lines of "FH is good because you want 20% CDR but CDR/lvl is bad because you want FH for the 20% CDR" It was great when it was super cost effective and you wanted all the stats, and it's still good against AD lanes, however it's more expensive, gives less mana, less armour, less slow than it used to, and also sheen became a much better option for nasus which partially removes the mana value from FH. The result is that FH is much, much weaker as an item for him than it used to be. Kindle+sheen doesn't give any less cdr than glacial+sheen. You will be behind in CDR because you can't get the second kindlegem until SV is completed but it's not the end of the world. Stacks are good but they aren't everything. If I have a much superior build for the game at hand. (Laning vs AP and then splitting and using ohmwrecker to dive or backdoor towers), it doesn't matter if some guy has an extra 100 stacks. I also want to mention the stacking mana option leaves you super low on HP. Even with Nasus ult HP is by far the best EHP stat until you get to about 2-2.5k hp, and stacking armour and mana and cdr is just asking for you to get chunked by some mid laner when you want to be hitting a mid game power spike. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
While FH is gold efficient (just checked wiki, it's 105% which is kinda shitty for a legendary item), it only makes sense if the enemy team is pretty AA dependent. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
Assuming 10% cdr from the start you can either go Visage, Triforce, Ohmwrecker or Frozen heart, Triforce, Maw Both get you 40% cdr and let you itemize against your lane opponent. Gonna play test this today EDIT: Played a bunch of games: the ohmwrecker build is pretty bad as it takes forever to get going thanks to double kindlegem. Didnt feel good at all. The Frozenheart route still seems best and going frozen heart into sheen hex and giantsbelt worked pretty well. Couldnt test maw that much though, most of the enemy teams were loaded with ad so I just rushed DMP right after my core. | ||
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