no you can play E max to bully her but its really not necessary at all, you'll lose out in the long run
just remember to bring a pink ward for allins it'll make things easier

you can't underestimate her early harass but play reasonable its an easy matchup

Figgy

Canada1788 Posts

August 20 2014 13:28 GMT

#563

On August 20 2014 02:30 Slayer91 wrote:
maybe nidalee, maybe darius, rumble riven definitely not
vlad not really, e max works well vs him and also nasus w slows vlad during pool so it fucks him
gnar is probably terrible against him but nobody plays him but any melee or semi melee is gonna suck against him

Nasus shits all over Darius hardcore.

Rumble pushes lane without burst so it's really easy to turn it into a farm lane if you freeze near your turret.

Riven 100% hard counters Nasus, you just can't farm against her at all outside of turret range and if she's ever able to freeze the lane you're toast.

Sakray

France2198 Posts

August 20 2014 14:26 GMT

#564

Most of the time you can get away with getting destroyed our zoned heavily in lane, as people have no idea how to deal with Nasus once teamfight start to happen, until I would say high plat/low diam.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

August 20 2014 15:46 GMT

#565

Actually, if you built chalice in lane for certain MU's, would it be worth turning it into a Mikael's later on? Self-cleanse on a champ that relies on sitting on your enemy's face seems pretty good.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 20 2014 17:24 GMT

#566

On August 20 2014 22:28 Figgy wrote:

Show nested quote +

unless you feed her like 2 kills or something rivens a fine lane
if she doesnt go LW its still fine actually

theres no reason riven should ever be able to freeze lane, unless its pre 6 or something but then she can't afford to tank a huge wave and still fight you

she c an only zone you until level 7 or something after which if she commits all her spells to try to harass you you can just ult and kill
normally rivens tend to E auto W auto then use q's to disengage if you w.

WarSame

Canada1950 Posts

August 20 2014 18:18 GMT

#567

Slayer is right from my experience. A better Riven will be able to kick your ass, but on even ground you should be able to survive and get some farm. It depends a lot on your jungler, too, though. If they have enough damage and tankiness to help you chase her out of lane then it can win you it right there. If they leave you hanging out to dry it will be a tough lane.

On that note, what do you think is better to start with? Cloth and 5 potions or Doran's shield? I've always done Cloth to transform it into my armour item, but maybe Doran's could work?

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 20 2014 18:44 GMT

#568

always cloth+5 you want to rush frozen heart or maybe frozen fist
dorans really doesnt do anything for you at all if you want you can buy a ruby (for later phage/locket w/e) to beef you up a bit for all ins (assuming you don't have enough for a full vest/frozen heart/glacial, it might be worth buying boots over ruby though im not sure)

WarSame

Canada1950 Posts

August 20 2014 18:54 GMT

#569

Frozen Heart is what I've always done(although normally GS -> boots or health ->the other). Thanks.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 20 2014 19:23 GMT

#570

yea i tend to skip boots (until first item) a lot but its hard to tell when they're worth
if i have to walk back to lane instead of tp i often get them because then they are guaranteed value

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

August 21 2014 00:07 GMT

#571

Riven definitely doesn't hard counter Nasus. I think hybrid pen is definitely better than armour pen on Nasus. You'll always do significant amounts of magic damage. The only reason not to run hybrid pen marks is if you don't own them.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 21 2014 00:16 GMT

#572

its not even close to a counter

schmutttt

Australia3856 Posts

August 22 2014 01:14 GMT

#573

On August 20 2014 22:28 Figgy wrote:

Show nested quote +

How the hell does nasus shit on Darius?

WarSame

Canada1950 Posts

August 22 2014 01:35 GMT

#574

Nasus really scales on him. Of course, there's the huge problem that if your Darius is not a face-rolling idiot, then you're going to have a tough time heading up to level 6. But you should be fine about 80% of the time, then.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

August 22 2014 06:04 GMT

#575

I'm pretty sure I would lose to a Darius as Nasus and crush a Nasus as Darius. You completely concede the first 6 levels and then hope he doesn't have enough damage to kill you while you try to sneak CS? What's the gameplan vs Darius as Nasus? Maybe there's something I don't understand about the matchup.

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

August 22 2014 06:27 GMT

#576

Yeah, I don't understand how Riven hard counters Nasus but Darius is an easy match up.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

August 22 2014 12:04 GMT

#577

They are pretty much a similar matchup, except darius relies a bit less on getting fed to beat you because of the true damage, and riven is better at harassing you when you're trying to farm, and better at escaping ganks.

Essentially how the darius match up works, is pre 6 you have a fine line between taking a CS with Q outside of tower range and eating a Q harass, and trying to punish him for being too aggressive. That is, you're prepared to take a Q for every cs you take but that will be 2 or 3 before the lane pushes which is only a hp pot. You can maybe take an auto and Q in fact. If darius is overaggressively trying to deny cs without pushing you can fight him in your creep wave with w and e to make the creeps really hurt but just be careful not to get in gib range from his E+Q+ignite+passive stacks+flash auto.

Post 6 you can all in him only if he lets you get a favourable engage, as in, he wasted his Q or something and he's in your creep line etc. You can't really fight him while he has ignite until a bit later.
I think getting a ruby crystal and maybe even a giants might take priority over finishing frozen heart but it depends if he went LW or not.
You want to use the threat of all-in as leverage so you can farm. You can start to shake off q harass with your lifesteal so you just want to watch not being full hp and then engaging on him. He struggles to engage on you because his pull has a long cd and if he uses it when you're not low you get a free engage and you can use the full 5 s of your W and not like 2 s to close to gap.

I've played against maybe 4 or 5 dariuses and I didn't have a problem by level 11ish even if they got kills from jungle action earlier AND went LW. (like 50% of my games my jungler comes level 3 when their top is shoving and one or both of us dies depending on if their jungler came or not, its really annoying and it happens vs darius/riven etc). I played against 20 or so rivens and only had a problem against one who rushed brutalzer+Lw and got fed from me underestimating her slightly too much.

WarSame

Canada1950 Posts

August 22 2014 22:19 GMT

#578

I find Riven easier than Darius, but they're both tough. It's the type of matchup where if they let you sit there for 2 or 3 levels untouched then they've probably lost. Slayer sounds about right on it.

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

August 23 2014 00:36 GMT

#579

Playing Nasus is a good test for seeing if your jungler has a brain or not. So many will just automatically come top at level 3 to try to gank. Surprise, Vi + Nasus doesn't beat Jarvan + Ryze with a ton of creeps on their side.