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On September 21 2013 06:44 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 06:03 APurpleCow wrote:On September 20 2013 21:10 Slayer91 wrote:
oh
except the trinity force bit
dont do that ^^ nasus does tons of damage with just CDR and sunfire. even though triforce is good on him, it's almost always better to get your tankiness up first, with trinity being your 5th or 6th item if you get it at all, as one offensive item is usually enough and it competes with last whisper for that slot. One damage item isn't always enough. I faced an enemy team that had Trundle/Zyra. Building purely tanky would have been a mistake, because Zyra was fed and had void staff/liandries extremely early, and Trundle just stole half of my resists anyways. Ended up going Triforce/Hydra/LW after SV/FH. Worked pretty well, as getting on top of them wasn't that difficult because Trundle was busy murdering the squishes on my team, and I murdered his squishes faster with that many offensive items. Prior to getting the Hydra, most were getting away with a few hundred health and just murdering me while their teammates wailed on me.
9 times out of 10, you'd still want to get HP, armor, and mres before considering those items. IBG is probably the only item that I might consider rushing.
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there are different starts on nasus :
doran shield + pot
cloth + 3-5 pot + 0-1 ward
Rejuv + 5 pot + some wards
Flask + 2-4 pot + 0-1 ward
I just take flask in a lot of matchups but its from experience, also by preference i tend to avoid doran shield start because of the lack of ward, you are way too easy to gank without, cant punish certain lane and just have to hug tower in certain cases
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dorans shield is fine against "ad casters" wtf
just learn to play passively, the firs time they attack you you dont cs until wave is it tower, assuming they did quite a bit of damage, but try to see it coming and avoid it ofc.
sunfire wat
no need for sunfire really, getting cdr for your q is probably a better investment dps wise because it increases the rate of charging q as well as the rate of using it in fights.
i pretty much tower hug anyways but if you are ever going to push you have to hard push so you cant get jumped on 2v1 without it being super obvious
you always have the option to just back and TP if they committ super hard to a gank when you're close to tower. you can get pots and wards then
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Thoughts on the aatrox matchup?
I got dumpstered at 4 (Underestimated his burst) and proceeded to get outfarmed till like 20 min when I had tabi/frozen heart and could 1v1 him, but by then team fights were starting and I was still behind in gold.
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hard he can kill you at 2 if u over extend and its very easy for him and a jungler to dive you because of his passive. In lane he has more sustain than you after building his vamp scepter. i have to play more vs him to see his weakness.
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Aatrox can probably kill nasus pre-6, but once you get Wither and ult I really don't think you can lose to him.
I'd start with dshield and play passively. Probably go Q first then W if you think he'll try to all-in, E if he just wants to zone you. By level 3 you want 1 point in everything. Rush Tabis + some other armor item and try to hit 6 w/out getting too far behind. The most important thing is to be willing to invest more points in W/E. Having low cooldown on Q means nothing if you're getting zoned.
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What is the best way to deal with Darius?
Other bullies much easier to deal with because you can just stack defensive runes (Panth/Riven/Renekton grab 40 armor, Rumble 40 MR etc) and free farm pretty well ignoring them, but unless the Darius bad he going to be able to denie you a fair bit.
I thought I was doing fairly well, had about 90-95 CS at 13 minute mark (to Darius 110-120) which is pretty decent. We both backed, had about the same amount of items I had Wardens+Cowl+consumables, he had Tiamat+Ninja Tabis+DBlade+Consumables. I all inned him at level 10 and just like lost horribly, by like 30% HP, which was probably a terrible decision because he had Ignite and I had TP, but I thought it would be not bad because Darius RE scales better with levels than Nasus R and I had a fairly solid amount of Qfarm.
From there I just got dove over and over again... but I suppose my question is just how to best deal with it, and how far behind Darius is an "okay to be behind" amount?
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On September 24 2013 09:40 iCanada wrote:
What is the best way to deal with Darius?
Other bullies much easier to deal with because you can just stack defensive runes (Panth/Riven/Renekton grab 40 armor, Rumble 40 MR etc) and free farm pretty well ignoring them, but unless the Darius bad he going to be able to denie you a fair bit.
I thought I was doing fairly well, had about 90-95 CS at 13 minute mark (to Darius 110-120) which is pretty decent. We both backed, had about the same amount of items I had Wardens+Cowl+consumables, he had Tiamat+Ninja Tabis+DBlade+Consumables. I all inned him at level 10 and just like lost horribly, by like 30% HP, which was probably a terrible decision because he had Ignite and I had TP, but I thought it would be not bad because Darius RE scales better with levels than Nasus R and I had a fairly solid amount of Qfarm.
From there I just got dove over and over again... but I suppose my question is just how to best deal with it, and how far behind Darius is an "okay to be behind" amount?
You were doing quite well but your item choice are bad
Go glacial shroud + kindlegem like that u can farm your Q a lot more, u will also sustain a lot better. DONT get cowl !!! what does that do in this matchup ?? Nothing
You should try to all in him when you got an advantage. Like when u hit lvl 11 before him or some summoners burned or you have an hp advantage. If not i would not advise you to do so, just farm, after a certain point he wont be able to all in you.
Normally in a darius lane you just have to not give him kills early on for you to win the lane basicly
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Not saying you should rely on jungle camping to win, but if you're playing someone with excellent gank assist (Nasus) vs a champ who can't really escape ganks (Darius) it is just about free kills top. I personally don't like playing nasus vs Darius I think it is one of Nasus' worst lanes and I try to avoid it when possible.
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On September 24 2013 09:40 iCanada wrote:
What is the best way to deal with Darius?
Other bullies much easier to deal with because you can just stack defensive runes (Panth/Riven/Renekton grab 40 armor, Rumble 40 MR etc) and free farm pretty well ignoring them, but unless the Darius bad he going to be able to denie you a fair bit.
I thought I was doing fairly well, had about 90-95 CS at 13 minute mark (to Darius 110-120) which is pretty decent. We both backed, had about the same amount of items I had Wardens+Cowl+consumables, he had Tiamat+Ninja Tabis+DBlade+Consumables. I all inned him at level 10 and just like lost horribly, by like 30% HP, which was probably a terrible decision because he had Ignite and I had TP, but I thought it would be not bad because Darius RE scales better with levels than Nasus R and I had a fairly solid amount of Qfarm.
From there I just got dove over and over again... but I suppose my question is just how to best deal with it, and how far behind Darius is an "okay to be behind" amount?
You're way overestimating the amount of magical damage coming from Darius. It's like building a cowl vs Renekton because his ult does magic damage. The magic damage is pretty small compared to the physical damage from Darius' Q/W. He also doesnt really rely on AS much, so warden's isn't going to help much.
If you don't believe me, look at deathlog / damage logs after the game. Darius bleed is like 10-15% of the damage coming out from him (At level 10, a 5stack bleed does a TOTAL of 120, plus some additional from runes/longswords/whatever). Autoing you 5 times does significantly more damage than that, and that's without Q/W's additional damage.
Glacial + Ruby/Kindle + Tabi would have been the right early items, it's not bad to have a health buffer of some kind so you don't get dunked, but for the most part your ult cancels his.
Also, never allin any good 1v1er when they have ignite and you have TP, unless you're significantly ahead (which you clearly aren't.) Nasus more useful in teamfights anyway, darius only has his shortrange forever-cd grab and try-to-pentakill going for him. You're also better at objectives.
If you're getting a slight lead, shove him and if it's REALLY safe, chunk his tower with an auto-Q-auto or something then back off.
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On September 24 2013 12:42 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 09:40 iCanada wrote:
What is the best way to deal with Darius?
Other bullies much easier to deal with because you can just stack defensive runes (Panth/Riven/Renekton grab 40 armor, Rumble 40 MR etc) and free farm pretty well ignoring them, but unless the Darius bad he going to be able to denie you a fair bit.
I thought I was doing fairly well, had about 90-95 CS at 13 minute mark (to Darius 110-120) which is pretty decent. We both backed, had about the same amount of items I had Wardens+Cowl+consumables, he had Tiamat+Ninja Tabis+DBlade+Consumables. I all inned him at level 10 and just like lost horribly, by like 30% HP, which was probably a terrible decision because he had Ignite and I had TP, but I thought it would be not bad because Darius RE scales better with levels than Nasus R and I had a fairly solid amount of Qfarm.
From there I just got dove over and over again... but I suppose my question is just how to best deal with it, and how far behind Darius is an "okay to be behind" amount? You're way overestimating the amount of magical damage coming from Darius. It's like building a cowl vs Renekton because his ult does magic damage. The magic damage is pretty small compared to the physical damage from Darius' Q/W. He also doesnt really rely on AS much, so warden's isn't going to help much. If you don't believe me, look at deathlog / damage logs after the game. Darius bleed is like 10-15% of the damage coming out from him (At level 10, a 5stack bleed does a TOTAL of 120, plus some additional from runes/longswords/whatever). Autoing you 5 times does significantly more damage than that, and that's without Q/W's additional damage. Glacial + Ruby/Kindle + Tabi would have been the right early items, it's not bad to have a health buffer of some kind so you don't get dunked, but for the most part your ult cancels his. Also, never allin any good 1v1er when they have ignite and you have TP, unless you're significantly ahead (which you clearly aren't.) Nasus more useful in teamfights anyway, darius only has his shortrange forever-cd grab and try-to-pentakill going for him. You're also better at objectives. If you're getting a slight lead, shove him and if it's REALLY safe, chunk his tower with an auto-Q-auto or something then back off.
So you're saying spend the same early gold on less combat stats and I'd be fine?
lol. I see... Clearly the Run speed and the mana would have gave me that extra oomf.
I dunno, I think i was doing fine. I could see maybe Kindle over Cowl, but I think I just got overconfident in my like 200 Q farm at the time. I pretty sure I just needed to wait two or three levels to get aggressive.
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He's saying you don't need to worry about combat stats that early, build your CDR and health and wait for later in the game.
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On September 24 2013 23:57 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:42 sylverfyre wrote:On September 24 2013 09:40 iCanada wrote:
What is the best way to deal with Darius?
Other bullies much easier to deal with because you can just stack defensive runes (Panth/Riven/Renekton grab 40 armor, Rumble 40 MR etc) and free farm pretty well ignoring them, but unless the Darius bad he going to be able to denie you a fair bit.
I thought I was doing fairly well, had about 90-95 CS at 13 minute mark (to Darius 110-120) which is pretty decent. We both backed, had about the same amount of items I had Wardens+Cowl+consumables, he had Tiamat+Ninja Tabis+DBlade+Consumables. I all inned him at level 10 and just like lost horribly, by like 30% HP, which was probably a terrible decision because he had Ignite and I had TP, but I thought it would be not bad because Darius RE scales better with levels than Nasus R and I had a fairly solid amount of Qfarm.
From there I just got dove over and over again... but I suppose my question is just how to best deal with it, and how far behind Darius is an "okay to be behind" amount? You're way overestimating the amount of magical damage coming from Darius. It's like building a cowl vs Renekton because his ult does magic damage. The magic damage is pretty small compared to the physical damage from Darius' Q/W. He also doesnt really rely on AS much, so warden's isn't going to help much. If you don't believe me, look at deathlog / damage logs after the game. Darius bleed is like 10-15% of the damage coming out from him (At level 10, a 5stack bleed does a TOTAL of 120, plus some additional from runes/longswords/whatever). Autoing you 5 times does significantly more damage than that, and that's without Q/W's additional damage. Glacial + Ruby/Kindle + Tabi would have been the right early items, it's not bad to have a health buffer of some kind so you don't get dunked, but for the most part your ult cancels his. Also, never allin any good 1v1er when they have ignite and you have TP, unless you're significantly ahead (which you clearly aren't.) Nasus more useful in teamfights anyway, darius only has his shortrange forever-cd grab and try-to-pentakill going for him. You're also better at objectives. If you're getting a slight lead, shove him and if it's REALLY safe, chunk his tower with an auto-Q-auto or something then back off. So you're saying spend the same early gold on less combat stats and I'd be fine? lol. I see... Clearly the Run speed and the mana would have gave me that extra oomf. I dunno, I think i was doing fine. I could see maybe Kindle over Cowl, but I think I just got overconfident in my like 200 Q farm at the time. I pretty sure I just needed to wait two or three levels to get aggressive.
It's not the movespeed or mana. It's the armor, Tabi passive, and cdr.
A cowl that early against a Darius is way overkill. You're wasting a bunch of gold on 45 MR when all you really want is more armor and hp. Kindlegem gives the same amount of hp as Cowl for a bit over half the price plus you get cdr, which Nasus really wants.
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Cowl doesn't do jackshit against darius. Even if the HP5 buff applied for his bleed, darius's full combo will let you heal maybe 50? health before you die.
I agree with the kindlegem into armor. You need health so his combo won't destroy you, and armor so you can tank it enough to heal.
While coming out of lane with a farmed Q is nice, your first priority against something as strong as darius is to not die.
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Why did people stop playing jungle Nasus? With the new triforce, he should be running rampant in soloq.
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Probably because everyone plays him top now.
Building Triforce on jungle Nasus kinda sucks too, difficult to get it on a relevant time scale without getting hyper fed.
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Jungle nasus got its strength mostly from built in utility of nasus, and pretty strong bot lane ganks with w+ghost top lane nasus is all that but his q also does way more damage. People just didn't realize that his laning phase wasn't all that easy to shut down .Triforce is pretty overrated anyway, its not much better on nasus than anyone else, its usually a better idea to just buy more cdr and make up the ~75 missing sheen damage by killing 25 more creeps with q, and having like 3.5k more gold on tank stats.
Darius is a hard lane. You want to rush frozen heart but the true damage is so risky that you might want to get at least a ruby before finishing it. In any case it's one of the easiest lane to ganks and that's your trump card. (but counterganks are scary if you can't 1v1 darius yet)
Aatrox isn't, if you are dying to aatrox something is really wrong, he has no way to punish you without you getting into trades in which you are both low but you have to run and he free lifesteals on creeps. I don't think he can ever win 1v1 (without relying on his passive) and even if he can his abilities cause too much aoe to not push the lane to where you can farm safely and lifeleech+hp pot to full.
he relies on attack speed and physical damage way too hard to not get crushed hard even before you finish frozen heart+tabi.
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Nasus is considered a split pusher IMO because
1) almost everybody runs teleport top on him
2) he pushes quick with Q
3) he gets to farm up his q more (need to be smart about it though, if you're really split pushing you need to be pushing as quickly as you can, not waiting to Q stuff)
4) he has good escapes with whither/tankiness/ghost (other summoner uusally used)
5) he's a good 1v1'er once his Q is farmed and he has CDR/tankiness
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EPT
