EPT[Champion] Irelia - Page 2
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
On July 25 2011 04:06 broz0rs wrote: when you all play Irelia, do you need a solo lane? I'm not lv. 30 yet and I often have to duo lane with a carry. The problem, of course, is that I end up getting Triforce by 30+ minutes and my Irelia is too squishy to initiate. I'm going to try the Atmog build for 10 games and see if its better since Triforce Irelia at a duo lane is too damn squishy to do anything except get blown up. lol IMO yes. Irelia needs levels. You might have more success with a wriggles, a wits end and a sheen if youre going to be farm and level limited. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On July 25 2011 04:06 broz0rs wrote: when you all play Irelia, do you need a solo lane? I'm not lv. 30 yet and I often have to duo lane with a carry. The problem, of course, is that I end up getting Triforce by 30+ minutes and my Irelia is too squishy to initiate. I'm going to try the Atmog build for 10 games and see if its better since Triforce Irelia at a duo lane is too damn squishy to do anything except get blown up. lol Irelia doesn't really work duo lane. | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
I can see warmogs being viable when both team play passively, lengthening the laning phase. Not sure about atmas because of triforce's (mainly sheen's) potential throughout most of the game. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I just got crushed on duo lane (with Vlad) against Katarina and Fiddle. I don't know which runes they had precisely, but they were geared toward some AP right off the bat, and they used a lot of poking with Kata's daggers and Fiddle's crow. We outfarmed them for a bit, but the raw output of Fiddle's Crow combined with Kata's dagger meant we were permanently harassed, and I have no idea how I could have responded. Irelia is somewhat committed once she attacks, since she has no poking abilities whatsoever (her Q let her right into the fray) and with Kata's shumpo and some exhaust summoner spell their chasing abilities outshined my escape options. Plus, the delay before she actually hits with her E means that it's not that great to stop Kata's ulti. Any idea how this kind of poking comp can be addressed? I really have no idea and those are the ones that give me the most problems during the laning phase (or Xin and his knockback spell). | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 25 2011 06:41 Southlight wrote: Sheen gives you like an extra autoattack's worth of damage. It's fine for the burst but it's not THAT good. The damage you get from Atma is essentially that of a completed Triforce at level 18 with no HP items. As said, with TriForce for Atma+Belt, you essentially trade the Sheen proc for comparable sustained damage in exchange for more survival (TriForce = 4k, Atma+Belt = 3.4k, you can get a Negatron or Ruby with the gold differential).. Sheen proc? Its a trinity force proc, 160+ dmg for most people. In addition, you are trading away a slow and a movespeed boost, as well as extra attack speed, AP, mana etc. At least be fair in your comparisons. (Not to mention that every blade of Irelias ulti procs triforce, which is most of her singletarget burst) | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
On July 25 2011 06:21 Alaric wrote: Atma's not really good until you get her defensive HP items anyway, it's more an end build item I think. I just got crushed on duo lane (with Vlad) against Katarina and Fiddle. I don't know which runes they had precisely, but they were geared toward some AP right off the bat, and they used a lot of poking with Kata's daggers and Fiddle's crow. We outfarmed them for a bit, but the raw output of Fiddle's Crow combined with Kata's dagger meant we were permanently harassed, and I have no idea how I could have responded. Irelia is somewhat committed once she attacks, since she has no poking abilities whatsoever (her Q let her right into the fray) and with Kata's shumpo and some exhaust summoner spell their chasing abilities outshined my escape options. Plus, the delay before she actually hits with her E means that it's not that great to stop Kata's ulti. Any idea how this kind of poking comp can be addressed? I really have no idea and those are the ones that give me the most problems during the laning phase (or Xin and his knockback spell). It honestly comes down to not playing that lane comp. A lot of the seemingly unfair matchups are results of not picking a balanced team comp, including this one. You pretty much just need to farm near your tower because they're going to demolish you with a properly executed combo of fiddle cc + kat ult. Ward your lane brush if you need to. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On July 25 2011 05:45 billy5000 wrote: How about an early sheen into fon? ... Not sure about atmas because of triforce's (mainly sheen's) potential throughout most of the game. The AP gives like a whole 20 damage on her E, it's negligible. Slow and mspd boosts are okay but we've been discussing the effect on her damage output mid-game. At least be relevant in what you're comparing. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
No one's saying TriForce Irelia does less damage, obviously she'll do more, but the differential comes more from the Proc, which is what I've been saying. It's trading the random utility for more survival, and comparing the random TF stats is useless because I'm not bringing up teh random armor/crit/MR etc. that you can buy with the same gold either. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 25 2011 06:53 Southlight wrote: People are talking about the difference of having Sheen early-game. in comparison to atmas for dmg output? early game? Well, sheen makes her hurt but I prefer getting phage before it, wits end vs magic lane | ||
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
On July 25 2011 06:53 Southlight wrote: People are talking about the difference of having Sheen early-game. The AP gives like a whole 20 damage on her E, it's negligible. Slow and mspd boosts are okay but we've been discussing the effect on her damage output mid-game. At least be relevant in what you're comparing. If we're comparing strictly based on her damage output mid-game, then sheen's procs are better suited than the 18% crit from atma's (also, you have more options with your unspent gold as you can add either chain vest or negatron without having to strictly go armor to build an atma's). Assuming she's not autoattacking a tanky champion, irelia's strength relies on bursting down the enemy's squishies, and she won't be able to autoattack as many times to really benefit from atma's assuming they have escape capabilities in addition to a support nearby. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
No one is saying Atma does more damage than TriForce. That Sheen/TF is better for Burst is a no brainer. This has been said maybe 10 times in this 2-page thread already. Building tanky simply makes her tanky. The whole discussion originally was on whether Irelia with Atma does enough damage midgame, and my point has been that, yes, she does sufficient damage mid-game because her base skill damage is high enough and Atma gives decent sustained damage, even without completing a Warmog as long as you buy a Belt. Yes, TriForce will obviously do more damage. It better, given that you're investing 4000 gold into an item that's essentially just there for its damage output. Irelia's strength when you run armor + def spec + defensive items is that she's a bitch to take down, does incredibly high skill damage, and is a big freaking wall that the other team must account for or they'll get picked apart. And considering that she can do this from a solo lane that tends to walk over AP carries is a big, big plus. Why would you even think about running tankrelia and bother comparing it to damage Irelia if you're not looking for a solo lane tank? When you Q->E into their team and start gunning after their squishies, with tankrelia you take a ridiculous beating and a lot of CC (if you turned PStone into Miracle) before you get killed. With a good, farmed carry or two this is absolutely brutal. And if they opt to ignore you, Irelia is still Irelia, her damage output is stupid, and Atma gives enough sustained damage that you can usually 1v1 a squishy anyways. Also, yes, you do autoattack a lot. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
WE prolly works, I've just been favoring FoN because I prefer the anti-poke (health regen is noice). It's just a different way of playing her, for a different type of role, and one that she can pull off (similar to Jarvan) because her skillset is sort of stupid for a supposed melee DPS. | ||
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RetZ
Australia67 Posts
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
On July 25 2011 12:11 RetZ wrote: I'd always use tabi or lucidity over zerk greaves myself. Lucidity is utility and tabi is survivability, The whole point of warmogs rush is you don't need either. Just run in and boss mode. You are already getting low on damage so I like berserkers. If you want CDR you probably should be using like a trinity force build anyway. Miricle+CDR boots+Spirit visage-->trinity I saw once and I guess it makes sense for even more mobility and burst. Berserkers help a lot early on when you just maxed hiten style in lane and you're working toward your atmas. 75 True damage is ridiclous. | ||
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