EPTedit: obviously if you can hog blue which you should the point is moot
[Champion] Orianna the Lady of Clockwork - Page 5
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
edit: obviously if you can hog blue which you should the point is moot | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
TreeEskimo's preferred build is triple DRing into Deathcap, Void Staff, Morello, and then I think Rylai. He stays on boot 1 for a while and upgrades usually to Merc at some point. The early AP boost from DRing helps one-shot creep faster, but it gives her mana issues. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On July 18 2011 16:00 starfries wrote: For boots I really think she needs Sorc shoes instead of the CDR boots. She doesn't do enough damage without them, and they make a big difference when you first get level 2 boots and don't have any AP. Also, her base cooldowns are low enough that in lane they're up whenever you need them, and your damage is limited more by the other guy's positioning. I take flash/ignite and with sorc shoes you can threaten a kill at like half health so it's really easy to force them to b and win your lane even harder. edit: obviously if you can hog blue which you should the point is moot Meh, the flat magic pen doesn't do enough relevant damage in the early game to be worth the price. It's a flat +20 on sorcs shoes, not a percentage like items like void staff. If you do the math, assuming a 200 damage nuke from Orianna's W, the flat +20 on a low Mres target like Annie (she has 30 innate Mres, no scaling per level), it's only 16 more damage granted from the magic pen on sorcs shoes. Also note that against high Mres targets, a percentage magic pen item like Void is way more valuable than the flat pen from sorcs shoes. I'm not a fan of sorcs in general. I get CDR since I like having my offensive cooldowns up way faster in teamfights over dragon and such in the early-mid game. Most of the time I'll shield our initiator, speed boost our whole team with W, and then drop my ult when our initiator gets right in the midst of their whole team. The CDR boots take ~2 seconds off your W at max level IIRC, which I value pretty highly since I max W first. I've started taking clarity/flash, since orianna can operate pretty well on just one summoner spell (flash), and clarity fixes her mana problems in the early game. I know clarity is kind of a scrub summoner spell, but I've been having some success with it, so w/e. If we have no support (common at my scrub elo), I'll take CV/flash. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On July 19 2011 00:19 HyperionDreamer wrote: not a percentage like items like abyssal scepter.. you mean void staff, abyssal scepter is flat 20 mr reduction | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On July 19 2011 00:26 Phrost wrote: you mean void staff, abyssal scepter is flat 20 mr reduction sorry, you are correct. i mix up those two items non stop, and will continue to do so for a while. ^_^ | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On July 18 2011 22:31 Sabin010 wrote: If you first pick Orianna, and your opponents start counter picking with nukers (le Blanc, Malz, Annie), and tanky dps take CV with Flash and level up E first getting it to lvl 5 at 9. Stack auras with respect to team mates, and ward. Support your ranged DPS with speed buffs, slows, sheilds, and pulls. Some match ups are strait up imbalanced, but Orianna can fill multiple rolls quite easily. Just asking because I don't recognize your ID, at which elo are you getting wins with that advice? Running CV on Orianna when playing solo lane is horrible imho, unless you maybe run a cv-less botlane for some reason. Ignite burst wins close matchups like nothing else. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 19 2011 00:19 HyperionDreamer wrote: Meh, the flat magic pen doesn't do enough relevant damage in the early game to be worth the price. It's a flat +20 on sorcs shoes, not a percentage like items like void staff. If you do the math, assuming a 200 damage nuke from Orianna's W, the flat +20 on a low Mres target like Annie (she has 30 innate Mres, no scaling per level), it's only 16 more damage granted from the magic pen on sorcs shoes. Also note that against high Mres targets, a percentage magic pen item like Void is way more valuable than the flat pen from sorcs shoes. I'm not a fan of sorcs in general. I get CDR since I like having my offensive cooldowns up way faster in teamfights over dragon and such in the early-mid game. Most of the time I'll shield our initiator, speed boost our whole team with W, and then drop my ult when our initiator gets right in the midst of their whole team. The CDR boots take ~2 seconds off your W at max level IIRC, which I value pretty highly since I max W first. Sorcs early game edges out a Blasting Wand on DPS/gold efficiency on Orianna's level 6 combo. Since you can rely on a 10 MPen from runes, the 20 pen from Sorcs is a 20% damage increase vs. 30 MR targets, which scales extremely well until the point where enemy carries start seriously purchasing MR (very often not until after ~20 minutes in the game, after they've gotten their big damage item like IE or BT). They're not great, but they're still probably the best boots option. If you really don't like them, then holding boots 1, and getting later Mercs is probably still better than CDR boots. CDR boots are generally not purchased on mana-using AP carries, because buying CDR when you have blue buff 50%+ of the time (which Orianna should, as she's an AP carry that needs both the mana and the CDR) is generally not cost-effective. On July 19 2011 00:19 HyperionDreamer wrote: I've started taking clarity/flash, since orianna can operate pretty well on just one summoner spell (flash), and clarity fixes her mana problems in the early game. I know clarity is kind of a scrub summoner spell, but I've been having some success with it, so w/e. If we have no support (common at my scrub elo), I'll take CV/flash. There's pretty much never a reason to take Clarity over Teleport. Teleport lets you base for items, health, and mana, rather than just getting a mana boost, and has way more utility throughout the rest of the game. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On July 18 2011 22:31 Sabin010 wrote: If you first pick Orianna, and your opponents start counter picking with nukers (le Blanc, Malz, Annie), and tanky dps take CV with Flash and level up E first getting it to lvl 5 at 9. Stack auras with respect to team mates, and ward. Support your ranged DPS with speed buffs, slows, sheilds, and pulls. Some match ups are strait up imbalanced, but Orianna can fill multiple rolls quite easily. The thing is support Orianna plays does basically the same things as AP carry Orianna, except maybe you use your W on your own team instead of the other team. The difference is that if you go AP carry you actually do damage in addition to giving all those speed/slows/shields/pulls. Personally I also think her support ability is pretty mediocre as well, you're going be quite annoying bot lane but you could also be quite annoying solo mid, and with no farm you end up quite useless later on. I know this because when she was first released I kept getting stuck in a support role  Also, if you go support you just leave some other poor sucker to play AP carry, and considering Orianna is one of the safest AP carries they're going to get dived even harder than you. Unless you get caught her amazing range means you're always going to get a QRWE off before bad things happen to you. re Sorc shoes vs CDR boots, the increased damage applies to your whole combo of QRW and maybe an extra Q, while CDR boots might let you get off an extra W after all hell breaks loose. I think even in those early dragon teamfights the sorc boots are a bit better. I've sold sorc boots for CDR when I have void staff and we have absolutely no control of blue, but that's not a good situation to be in. I think I play a bit differently from you too, I never use W to run into a teamfight so don't really worry about its cooldown and I don't even get a point in E until really late, tank be damned. I really like the lane dominance leveling only W and Q (and ignite) gives you, otherwise people get the bright idea to try and battle instead of fearing the burst combo. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On July 19 2011 01:19 TheYango wrote: Sorcs early game edges out a Blasting Wand on DPS/gold efficiency on Orianna's level 6 combo. Since you can rely on a 10 MPen from runes, the 20 pen from Sorcs is a 20% damage increase vs. 30 MR targets, which scales extremely well until the point where enemy carries start seriously purchasing MR (very often not until after ~20 minutes in the game, after they've gotten their big damage item like IE or BT). They're not great, but they're still probably the best boots option. If you really don't like them, then holding boots 1, and getting later Mercs is probably still better than CDR boots. CDR boots are generally not purchased on mana-using AP carries, because buying CDR when you have blue buff 50%+ of the time (which Orianna should, as she's an AP carry that needs both the mana and the CDR) is generally not cost-effective. I'm assuming the 10 Mpen is from only reds, since I run Mpen/Scaling Mana per 5/Scaling AP/Flat AP. Might get flat Mpen quints as well soon. 30 MR targets reduced to 20 by the runes have a 100/120 = 83% damage multiplier, so 20 flat Mpen gives a 17% increase in damage, assuming of course they don't buy any MRes and don't have scaling MRes. Pre-6, her W only does 170 damage assuming you put 1 point in Q, 3 points in W, and 1 point in E, so that 17% is a 40 damage boost. Blasting Wand is 40 AP, so an extra 24 damage on W (60% ratio). I guess blue buff + blue elixir is capped CDR, so it's probably more cost efficient to chug those rather than get CDR boots, even though the MPen of sorcs gets less and less worth it as the game progresses. What level or time is generally appropriate for grabbing the buff from your jungler for the first time? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 19 2011 02:46 HyperionDreamer wrote: I guess blue buff + blue elixir is capped CDR, so it's probably more cost efficient to chug those rather than get CDR boots, even though the MPen of sorcs gets less and less worth it as the game progresses. What level or time is generally appropriate for grabbing the buff from your jungler for the first time? Depends on the jungler and the AP. The convention is that the AP carry takes the 3rd blue buff (which should spawn ~12:30 if your jungler started at blue and is doing his buffs on time) and every subsequent one. If your AP carry is particularly blue-hungry (e.g. Anivia, Zilean, Orianna), and your jungler isn't, then you can most certainly take the 2nd blue buff around 7:20. Most solo queue junglers probably won't let you have the 2nd one though. | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
9/0/21, ghost/flash. Feel free to get tp or ignite instead of ghost, that's just how i do it. Mpen red Ap/lvl yellow Ap/lvl blues Flat ap quints Dring -> Dring -> boots -> catalyst -> hug bluebfuf -> NLR -> sorc shoes -> deathcap -> banshee/void staff -> finish the one you didnt get earlier. The reason behind 2 dring is because i dont run scaling or flat mp5, since they're imo useless vs ap/lvl QWQE, R > Q > W > E ???? profit | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 19 2011 05:15 Sponkz wrote: I do like this: 9/0/21, ghost/flash. Feel free to get tp or ignite instead of ghost, that's just how i do it. Mpen red Ap/lvl yellow Ap/lvl blues Flat ap quints Dring -> Dring -> boots -> catalyst -> hug bluebfuf -> NLR -> sorc shoes -> deathcap -> banshee/void staff -> finish the one you didnt get earlier. The reason behind 2 dring is because i dont run scaling or flat mp5, since they're imo useless vs ap/lvl QWQE, R > Q > W > E ???? profit 1) Why Q>W? W has better damage, better AoE, better utility. Lower CD is nice, but like Annie, your early-midgame power in fights is your front-loaded AoE burst+CC, not the Qs you get to toss around after. 2) 2 DRings before Catalyst feels odd. Catalyst is stronger at early levels because level-ups happen faster, so it would make more sense to start Sapph Crystal + 2pot or Boots + 3pot and rush Catalyst, especially since Orianna has no natural health-based sustain. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
2) Simply put, that it gives you some much needed boost in terms of mp5 and ap early game. I'm no high ELO guy, but it works really really well. Especially seeing as someone like malz/annie will not be able to burst you down in 1 combo when you go double dorans+catalyst. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 19 2011 05:22 Sponkz wrote: 2) Simply put, that it gives you some much needed boots in terms of mp5 and ap early game. I'm no high ELO guy, but it works really really well. Especially seeing as someone like malz/annie will not be able to burst you down in 1 combo when you go double dorans+catalyst. I'm not saying skip the DRings, I'm saying Cata->2xDRing makes much more sense than 2xDRing->Cata, because the former lets you take advantage of Catalyst's sweet spot from levels 6-10 where you're absolutely bleeding HP/Mana out of your ears with how fast you're gaining levels. The mp5 isn't a huge argument for DRing starts, given that the total regen you get out of DRing is only slightly more than the flat mana provided by Sapph Crystal when you hit level 6, at which point you should be able to bluepill for Catalyst. Plus having potions in lane lets you get a surprising amount done, given how much easier it is for you to make trades. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 19 2011 05:33 Woony wrote: Two dorans AND catalyst is way overkill in most situations IMO, unless you really need the extra HP from the dorans for whatever reason. You should either get 2-3 dorans or catalyst in most situations (I like Cata -> RoA more and that's also what Jiji runs). Also W > Q is arguably better since landing a Q almost always guarantees landing a W and W does a fuckton of AoE damage and has a ridiculous AoE speedbuff/slow. Jiji actually doesn't have any qualms with padding his inventory with DRings if he ends up having to bluepill with not enough money for a Blasting Wand/RoA Recipe. Base with 600 gold, get DRing+pots+ward, rather than just the pots and a ward and sitting on the gold. | ||
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