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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
I usually put some points on the mana masteries in utility as well. Unless I'm with Soraka of course. The vamp scepter start is just terrible. If you do that, I simply right click you at level 1 for the kill with MF or any other carry other than twitch. No. He would win too. Any of the kill lanes will get you and additionally you will be the target of all the early ganks if you don't start with boots. Vamp scepter start loses the game instantly. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
There's nothing worth replacing 3 points in for the 1.5% extra damage. Maybe Vamparism. But I wouldn't swap anything else for it. You also don't need to feed off kills... If you make it out of laning without any kills that's fine. You're going to pick them up in teamfights anyway. And if you're an assassin because you pick off people at range then Ashe is also an assassin... You're an AD Carry that can also shred tanks. So you play like a regular AD Carry, except you don't care who you right click. Also dying is bad on any AD Carry regardless. That mobafire build makes me cry so hard. Zeal before completed BF item? Maybe before pre-nerf Vayne but it really doesn't work that way. Delaying the core BF item is too crucial. As DLift put it quite succinctly, your only goal is to get 2xDBlade and a BF as fast as possible. Nothing else. You don't need a lot of AS just to proc your W. Auto+Q+E is already 3 bolts. With someone like Alistar you can get 4-5 sec of permastun if they're out of position in lane so they're going to be dead anyway. | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On April 19 2012 21:53 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: That mobafire build makes me cry so hard. Zeal before completed BF item? Hu? The main build of this guide suggests completing a black cleaver before the zeal. Edit: After further looking at the guide, there is indeed a lot of criticism that can be done at the item suggestions. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
One is maxing R>Q>E ( only to level 2-3) >W, then building heavy AD (dorans, BT rush etc). This maximizes her single auto poke and burst combo, also generally a bit more sustainy. Seems decent against champs you don't want to trade with over a few autos (draven, ez, varus) the other is R>W>Q>E and building primarily attackspeed items early (typically berserkers and zeal as an early core, with dorans, vamp etc as necessary. I mostly try this against melee supports or if I have a good slowing/disrupting support like janna or nunu I'm still quite new to vayne, I'd appreciate some advice on whether the above logic is decent. I know attackspeed maxing is generally frowned upon, but vayne seems suited for it (albeit not quite as much as kog who is my ADC main atm) | ||
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ChaoSbringer
Australia1382 Posts
This is generally the best way to build Vayne when doing a 2v2 lane with a support. R>W>Q>E + Phantom Dancer first Vayne was popular at Worlds and it spilled over into solo queue. IMO its power comes from doing a 2v1 with a Nunu support. Nunu provdes the Blood Boil attack speed increase and the zoning to allow Vayne freefarm. I think option #1 is the best way to build Vayne, #2 isn't bad, but its power is more situational. Vayne is one of the best ADCs to duel with when she pops her ultimate, leveling Q lets her get into stealth more often, and the Q bonus percentage damage steroid stacks with the +flat AD she gets when using her ultimate. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
 can't cheat at kiting using move-attackmove. | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:02 Sufficiency wrote: QQ this champion is so hard to play can't cheat at kiting using move-attackmove.captain jack says its easy | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:09 sylverfyre wrote: Why QEQW over QEW? once you have all 3 skills, you can get the proc out of silver bolts if need be. Seconded. You have very low trading power before you get all 3 skills. You shouldn't be trading for long enough to need the extra Q, and when the non allin way of offensively trading is something like auto tumble condemn+auto -> back off, there's no reason to get a second point in Q at 3. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:02 Sufficiency wrote: QQ this champion is so hard to play can't cheat at kiting using move-attackmove.You can, you just won't hit the right targets.  | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 07 2012 03:52 Alaric wrote: You can, you just won't hit the right targets. Sure I can do that... just as I can probably build AP Vayne... But attack-moving makes me lose a lot of damage when I attack the wrong target. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Also, I played one game of vayne yesterday. How the hell do you deal with malphite+darius or any other combo of malphite + diving bruiser if your team has minimal peel (read: Only janna). Randuins + FH on malph, randuins + GA on darius. I have QSS, BT, PD, LW. Do I just die? I won one teamfight where I had cleanse + flash + QSS but next teamfight, even with baron buff, QSS+stealth wasn't enough and I blew up. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:04 Lmui wrote: Learning how to play vayne from aphro. If you're the focus of anything, whether it be alistar headbutts, darius dunks or whatever, do NOT use your tumble to just abuse the damage. You get plenty of that just from ulti + silver bolts. Use tumble to dodge/negate casts. Use it on cooldown after the CCs/initial wave of burst attacks. Also, I played one game of vayne yesterday. How the hell do you deal with malphite+darius or any other combo of malphite + diving bruiser if your team has minimal peel (read: Only janna). Randuins + FH on malph, randuins + GA on darius. I have QSS, BT, PD, LW. Do I just die? I won one teamfight where I had cleanse + flash + QSS but next teamfight, even with baron buff, QSS+stealth wasn't enough and I blew up. Vayne is basically the only ADC I play, I just don't like the role much outside of that one character. The thing about Vayne in heavy CC team fights is that you need to be way in the back and engage SUPER late. If you play a lot of ADC, player her like you would Kog'Maw, how you stick way the hell in the back and use his range to mitigate the damage you would otherwise take, only she doesn't have the same range, she has tumble. When I play Vayne in team fights, I will routinely wait to engage even until we are down a whole person from all the AoE going off, Vayne does enough damage to make up for the lost time, so it's not much of a concern. Also, the only time I use E past the mid-game is when I need to get divers off me, it's just too costly and not enough damage to use for anything else. If your team is letting 2 divers get to you without so much as touching them, there is not much you can do about that, but assuming they are less than 100%hp, you should be able to clean them up with tumbles + condemn. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On November 07 2012 04:04 Lmui wrote: Learning how to play vayne from aphro. If you're the focus of anything, whether it be alistar headbutts, darius dunks or whatever, do NOT use your tumble to just abuse the damage. You get plenty of that just from ulti + silver bolts. Use tumble to dodge/negate casts. Use it on cooldown after the CCs/initial wave of burst attacks. Also, I played one game of vayne yesterday. How the hell do you deal with malphite+darius or any other combo of malphite + diving bruiser if your team has minimal peel (read: Only janna). Randuins + FH on malph, randuins + GA on darius. I have QSS, BT, PD, LW. Do I just die? I won one teamfight where I had cleanse + flash + QSS but next teamfight, even with baron buff, QSS+stealth wasn't enough and I blew up. just need to not get hit by malph ult or darius pull  | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
If your team is letting 2 divers get to you without so much as touching them, there is not much you can do about that, but assuming they are less than 100%hp, you should be able to clean them up with tumbles + condemn. Stay back and bait their initiation. None of those super hard initiates is guaranteed other than possibly a jarvan flash cataclysm. For malph you want to stick back till the overall fight initiation happens, watch for him walking up into range to pop you with his ult once the fight starts and flash it. Ideally you want to get him to whiff the ult entirely by trying to be a good boy and hit you with it. Bonus points if you flash so that you line up a condemn on him. Often at the start of fights I kind of just run in circles up the back and watch skillshots fly past like college deadlines as people try to lock me down with ults, grabs and bindings. Wait for the right target- a tanky dropping below half or someone in a bad position you can tumble> condemn- then go, pick them off and juke back. It's all about predicting the opposing team's behaviour a second or two in advance and trolling the hell out of them. Doing it right is one of the most rewarding aspects of playing one of those big-target-strapped-to-your-ass type champions like vayne, kog and kat. | ||
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zeross
France310 Posts
i tried a lot, and i'm thinking of maining vayne. i usualy start of my game with boots, bf sword, vamp scepter, zeal, IE, phantom dancer, last whisper, GA, BT i know its not the greatest build, but it was working well vs bots and was good for most adc i've buyed my runes as folow : mark : 1 crit chance (for better then 0, it still crit sometimes :p), then only armor pene seal : only armor glyph : only magic res per level quint : life steal i know there is absolutly no guide (none that i've seen) that suggest life steal quint, but i thought they would be cool and bought them. are those atk dmg very so powerful that every build recomand them ? i thought 6 .75 wouldn't change so much and life steal seemed more attracting. now, because of this, and because i'm still a noob, i have some problems last hiting. should i change my mark+quint to atk dmg ? or should i buy a doran blade or two after my boots ? (or should i just get better at last hitting without changing anything :p) | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
different topic: to play vayne you literally just sit in the back and wait. This may sound counter productive but she is wayyy too squishy and doesnt have any strong safety nets in comparison to other adcs (kog has his super range for example). Let everyone waste their CCs (especially the apc) then dive in. Her dps is so damn good that losing one team member isnt a big deal (unless someone got caught and no cooldowns were thrown). zeross: You should try to finish an item quickly (dont have a bunch of unfinished items) especially the BT just to get the stacks flowing (and i hope the LW isnt on your mandatory list but rather an optional and flexible option).The lifesteal runes dont add up much especialy when you dont have any dps to make up the percentage aspect of them. Also the AD quints help out A LOT with the last hitting which is usually why people put it up (considering there isnt any other strong option other than MS and defensive quints). For the last hit: Just get better. Honestly as long as you have one AD then anyone can last hit. What I use to do in the beginning is I would click on an minion that I would try to last hit and pay attention to the rate the hp is lowering. As soon as I see drop within the hp limit, I take a memory photo of what the hp bar looks like and last hit. Keep doing that so that you can easily recognize simply by the visual hp bar to know when to hit (melee minions are a bit tankier then range so keep that in mind). Just play enough and I promise it will come to you either way. It just takes time. Also using tumble to last hit easier isnt a bad idea although you can go oom and be vulnerable if you do it recklessly (they have a cc nearby). I personally do boots if I see someone I need mobility against (blitz and leona come to mind) and mainly start with it considering vayne has a SHITTY SHITTY early game (pre-6). But going boots, 2 dorans, scept isnt a bad early item setup. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On December 23 2012 01:39 heroyi wrote: wtf is up with all the vayne players rushing SOTD? I keep seeing them going for boots then vamp scept, sotd...I mean looking at the price and stat I would rather get a PD then that piece of shit mid game item.. different topic: to play vayne you literally just sit in the back and wait. This may sound counter productive but she is wayyy too squishy and doesnt have any strong safety nets in comparison to other adcs (kog has his super range for example). Let everyone waste their CCs (especially the apc) then dive in. Her dps is so damn good that losing one team member isnt a big deal (unless someone got caught and no cooldowns were thrown). zeross: You should try to finish an item quickly (dont have a bunch of unfinished items) especially the BT just to get the stacks flowing (and i hope the LW isnt on your mandatory list but rather an optional and flexible option).The lifesteal runes dont add up much especialy when you dont have any dps to make up the percentage aspect of them. Also the AD quints help out A LOT with the last hitting which is usually why people put it up (considering there isnt any other strong option other than MS and defensive quints). For the last hit: Just get better. Honestly as long as you have one AD then anyone can last hit. What I use to do in the beginning is I would click on an minion that I would try to last hit and pay attention to the rate the hp is lowering. As soon as I see drop within the hp limit, I take a memory photo of what the hp bar looks like and last hit. Keep doing that so that you can easily recognize simply by the visual hp bar to know when to hit (melee minions are a bit tankier then range so keep that in mind). Just play enough and I promise it will come to you either way. It just takes time. Also using tumble to last hit easier isnt a bad idea although you can go oom and be vulnerable if you do it recklessly (they have a cc nearby). I personally do boots if I see someone I need mobility against (blitz and leona come to mind) and mainly start with it considering vayne has a SHITTY SHITTY early game (pre-6). But going boots, 2 dorans, scept isnt a bad early item setup. its pretty funny if youre way ahead, the 3 auto crits is like 100% a kill on their ad carry or support really | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 23 2012 06:55 arb wrote: its pretty funny if youre way ahead, the 3 auto crits is like 100% a kill on their ad carry or support really I am guessing R + Tumble + Guaranteed crit -> instant death. | ||
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olabaz
United States298 Posts
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