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On December 13 2011 15:18 Vaporized wrote:
hmm thanks for the reply. i saw some guide that said wriggles to bc so thats where i got that idea from. i tried it a bit, meh for sure.
i guess ill go with what i need more bt or ie when im choosing my first item. ive found myself wishing i had lifesteal for sure a few times, but if im patient in team fights\ganks then i dont really get hit anyway. i can tell they want to kill me, but if we have good cc they die before they can do anything.
ill try maxing q first next game, i like w because i do good damage to any target.
also one more question, what lane does vayne usually take in ranked games?
I like to play Vayne as a counter pick in most cases against a high armor top lanes like Singed/Garen/Voli, otherwise bot, unless kass is in game then just follow him.
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On December 13 2011 15:18 Vaporized wrote:
hmm thanks for the reply. i saw some guide that said wriggles to bc so thats where i got that idea from. i tried it a bit, meh for sure.
i guess ill go with what i need more bt or ie when im choosing my first item. ive found myself wishing i had lifesteal for sure a few times, but if im patient in team fights\ganks then i dont really get hit anyway. i can tell they want to kill me, but if we have good cc they die before they can do anything.
ill try maxing q first next game, i like w because i do good damage to any target.
also one more question, what lane does vayne usually take in ranked games?
Like I said, IE is the highest DPS item if you can get away with it. Obviously if people aren't good enough to hit you, you can get away with it. :p W first is not ideal as people do not have high HP pools early game, nor do they have high resistances. Q is important not just for the bonus damage, but because it resets your auto timer. Also, if you didn't already know, the basic Vayne combo is tumble in, auto, condemn + right click to queue up an auto for the quickest silver bolts proc. Keep in mind also that you can condemn people into turrets even if they have been destroyed. At low levels of play people constantly misposition so it's important to look for and take advantage of stun opportunities.
The standard is AD + support botlane, but if you're a strong laner Vayne can do well in any lane.
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On December 13 2011 15:18 Vaporized wrote:
hmm thanks for the reply. i saw some guide that said wriggles to bc so thats where i got that idea from. i tried it a bit, meh for sure.
i guess ill go with what i need more bt or ie when im choosing my first item. ive found myself wishing i had lifesteal for sure a few times, but if im patient in team fights\ganks then i dont really get hit anyway. i can tell they want to kill me, but if we have good cc they die before they can do anything.
ill try maxing q first next game, i like w because i do good damage to any target.
also one more question, what lane does vayne usually take in ranked games?
The guide for wirggles is all split pushing/1v1. If your going to team fight. Just come in late and clean up the mess. I just play super passive unless they make a mistake farming up for wriggles. My main goal is to have doran/greaves/wriggles first trip back, but greaves are a luxury.
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Regarding skill order, even Chaox moved away from maxing E first.
Doublelift is currently known for his outstanding Vayne.
He uses E just for the CC and maxes R > Q/W > W/Q > E. His reasoning is that Q + W are Vayne's non ultimate steroids which sounds feasible.
That's why he usually goes for BT first then since with 550 range Vayne needs sustain and her Q scales so well with as many AD you can get. PD after this and you're set.
In general, Vayne is the hypercarry that needs a BF Sword item and a PD and from then on is pretty much a problem for every enemy team. Even the worst Vayne player will sooner or later get triple kills and thus carry the game (assuming his team is not 15 kills behind and knows how to make use of a lategame Vayne).
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Here is most of my games the last 2 days with her. I hardly played ad carry before this. It just feels like that if you DON'T die and farm decently up to wriggles and then bf. You just dominate the lane. Well this is at least at my elo which has been 1350-1480. 1480 now was up to 1560 but took a decent break and came back and dropped down to 1300.
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16976 Posts
Instead of triple posting, please simply edit your original post.
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On December 13 2011 20:29 little fancy wrote:
In general, Vayne is the hypercarry that needs a BF Sword item and a PD and from then on is pretty much a problem for every enemy team. Even the worst Vayne player will sooner or later get triple kills and thus carry the game (assuming his team is not 15 kills behind and knows how to make use of a lategame Vayne).
Yuuup. I had a vayne on my team last night that got *wrecked* in lane. I think she was something like 0-6 with 25 cs 10 minutes in, and lost bot tower at 6 minutes or something. Team was raging at her hard. I think she put us all on ignore because she just sat bot FOREVER, just farming and never joining teamfights.
30 minutes later she finally joined a teamfight and had like BT, BC, and 2 PDs, and more or less killed the entire enemy team herself. Fun stuff.
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On December 14 2011 03:12 Empyrean wrote:
Instead of triple posting, please simply edit your original post.
Umm, I did.... That's odd. I just edited the post. I swear I didn't triple lol.
Just wanted to add something else.
A couple friends of mine have been duo Vayne/NuNu bot. It's pretty ridiculous. They went like 20-2 with it to 1700 from 1400. Using the wriggles/bc strat.
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United States489 Posts
I broke down and bought Vayne a few days ago. My main champion was Caitlyn and I felt like getting a new champ. The problem is I have not been doing good with Vayne at all. Most games start with me getting rolled in early fight, then me barely managing to break even towards the end of the game by basically KSing everything I can find. Can anyone give me some tips on playing her. I am basically following this build exactly http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/vindictive-vayne-90744 (the one at the top of the page) for my items, skill order and my masteries.
For runes I am running
9 Armor Pen Marks
9 Mana Regen Seals
9 Magic Resist P/L Glyphs
3 Health Quints
I am doing descent with my CS - not great but I have to get used to Vaynes animations and the timing.
Should I level my Q or my W first. I have been leveling my Q first and I simply don't feel like i'm doing much damage with it.
Edit: I don't play ranked at all. I am not bad I just don't want to solo que and my friend isn't level 30 yet, so I am playing with him.
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11589 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:00 FoeHamr wrote:I broke down and bought Vayne a few days ago. My main champion was Caitlyn and I felt like getting a new champ. The problem is I have not been doing good with Vayne at all. Most games start with me getting rolled in early fight, then me barely managing to break even towards the end of the game by basically KSing everything I can find. Can anyone give me some tips on playing her. I am basically following this build exactly http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/vindictive-vayne-90744 (the one at the top of the page) for my items, skill order and my masteries. For runes I am running 9 Armor Pen Marks 9 Mana Regen Seals 9 Magic Resist P/L Glyphs 3 Health Quints I am doing descent with my CS - not great but I have to get used to Vaynes animations and the timing. Should I level my Q or my W first. I have been leveling my Q first and I simply don't feel like i'm doing much damage with it. Edit: I don't play ranked at all. I am not bad I just don't want to solo que and my friend isn't level 30 yet, so I am playing with him.
Run AD/ArPen Quints instead of health, run armor seals instead of Mp5, and go one of two builds depending on the type of carry you like to be.
Wriggles -> Beserkers -> BFS -> BC -> PD -> IE/BT -> PD/GA -> Sell wriggles for GA/PD
This build is to wreck people 1v1 all day long, split pushing as fast as you can and generally being a nuisance. Wriggles helps your team secure baron/dragon faster and gives you good sustain in lane and while split pushing. All the rest of the items are as needed, really.
Doran's -> Boots -> Doran's -> Zerkers -> BT -> PD -> IE -> PD -> GA
This is the teamfight build. In the lategame, you will do more overall damage with this build if you have a fully farmed BT, as BT + IE + 2 PD is insane amounts of damage. You can get a GA at any point in which you feel that you do enough damage and want to add survivability.
As for skill order, I would say qeqwqr, r > q > w > e. People seem to like that nowadays. If your opponents are really horrid with positioning, though, I would max e > w > q, seeing as E is a huge nuke if you land it, and it will win you lanes against worse AD carries.
As for actually laning with Vayne, you have to be careful of how you are positioned. She is designed to do a lot of damage, but at a cost of having a really short AA range. In early fights, save your q/e for escapes/securing kills and communicate with your lane partner to target either the opposing carry or the support. Your decision should be relative to positioning and health. If you can land q -> auto -> condemn into wall, auto, w proc safely, then you should obviously do it. At almost any stage of the game, if your support has any CC at all, you will push them out of lane, if not outright kill them with this combo. In teamfights, it is okay to just hit the tank. With enough attack speed, his health will quickly fall to w procs, so you're not wasted by doing so. Just play safely, use your ult-> q -> e combo to pin down their AP/AD Carry when they are out of position, otherwise just save most of it for escapes. If you can draw someone into a 1v1, by all means do it. You will likely win if you have any experience with Vayne.
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United States489 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:17 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 03:00 FoeHamr wrote:I broke down and bought Vayne a few days ago. My main champion was Caitlyn and I felt like getting a new champ. The problem is I have not been doing good with Vayne at all. Most games start with me getting rolled in early fight, then me barely managing to break even towards the end of the game by basically KSing everything I can find. Can anyone give me some tips on playing her. I am basically following this build exactly http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/vindictive-vayne-90744 (the one at the top of the page) for my items, skill order and my masteries. For runes I am running 9 Armor Pen Marks 9 Mana Regen Seals 9 Magic Resist P/L Glyphs 3 Health Quints I am doing descent with my CS - not great but I have to get used to Vaynes animations and the timing. Should I level my Q or my W first. I have been leveling my Q first and I simply don't feel like i'm doing much damage with it. Edit: I don't play ranked at all. I am not bad I just don't want to solo que and my friend isn't level 30 yet, so I am playing with him. Run AD/ArPen Quints instead of health, run armor seals instead of Mp5, and go one of two builds depending on the type of carry you like to be. Wriggles -> Beserkers -> BFS -> BC -> PD -> IE/BT -> PD/GA -> Sell wriggles for GA/PD This build is to wreck people 1v1 all day long, split pushing as fast as you can and generally being a nuisance. Wriggles helps your team secure baron/dragon faster and gives you good sustain in lane and while split pushing. All the rest of the items are as needed, really. Doran's -> Boots -> Doran's -> Zerkers -> BT -> PD -> IE -> PD -> GA This is the teamfight build. In the lategame, you will do more overall damage with this build if you have a fully farmed BT, as BT + IE + 2 PD is insane amounts of damage. You can get a GA at any point in which you feel that you do enough damage and want to add survivability. As for skill order, I would say qeqwqr, r > q > w > e. People seem to like that nowadays. If your opponents are really horrid with positioning, though, I would max e > w > q, seeing as E is a huge nuke if you land it, and it will win you lanes against worse AD carries. As for actually laning with Vayne, you have to be careful of how you are positioned. She is designed to do a lot of damage, but at a cost of having a really short AA range. In early fights, save your q/e for escapes/securing kills and communicate with your lane partner to target either the opposing carry or the support. Your decision should be relative to positioning and health. If you can land q -> auto -> condemn into wall, auto, w proc safely, then you should obviously do it. At almost any stage of the game, if your support has any CC at all, you will push them out of lane, if not outright kill them with this combo. In teamfights, it is okay to just hit the tank. With enough attack speed, his health will quickly fall to w procs, so you're not wasted by doing so. Just play safely, use your ult-> q -> e combo to pin down their AP/AD Carry when they are out of position, otherwise just save most of it for escapes. If you can draw someone into a 1v1, by all means do it. You will likely win if you have any experience with Vayne.
Ok thanks. I think i'm just gonna have to play her a bit more to get used to it.
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I actually think mp5/lv isn't a bad choice on vayne. You really want to be able to free tumble whenever you want.
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On December 29 2011 03:00 FoeHamr wrote:I broke down and bought Vayne a few days ago. My main champion was Caitlyn and I felt like getting a new champ. The problem is I have not been doing good with Vayne at all. Most games start with me getting rolled in early fight, then me barely managing to break even towards the end of the game by basically KSing everything I can find. Can anyone give me some tips on playing her. I am basically following this build exactly http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/vindictive-vayne-90744 (the one at the top of the page) for my items, skill order and my masteries. For runes I am running 9 Armor Pen Marks 9 Mana Regen Seals 9 Magic Resist P/L Glyphs 3 Health Quints I am doing descent with my CS - not great but I have to get used to Vaynes animations and the timing. Should I level my Q or my W first. I have been leveling my Q first and I simply don't feel like i'm doing much damage with it. Edit: I don't play ranked at all. I am not bad I just don't want to solo que and my friend isn't level 30 yet, so I am playing with him.
looking thru that guide, i'm baffled that there's no last whisper in there. plz, plz, plz dont think that just kus vayne has trololol true dmg that she can just neglect it if ppl are getting high armor, the vast majority of her dmg still comes from physical sources.
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Vayne
Base movement speed reduced to 300 from 305
Night Hunter movement speed reduced to 30 from 40
Tumble bonus damage reduced to 30/35/40/45/50% from 40/45/50/55/60%
Final Hour Tumble stealth duration reduced to 1 second from 1.5
Coming changes.
To be honest, I'm horrified.
I just thought Riot was going to steadily tweak champs step by step (see MF buff for example over the last few patches) and now they return to using the nerf hammer IMO.
Base movement speed reduction is fine.
Passive nerf is significant, especially when taken into account that it's total of -30 movement speed when ultimate is active.
Tumble nerf seems like Riot only wants Vayne players to use it as a repositioning / chasing tool instead of an harassing technique.
Reducing stealth by 33% is one of the most crucial nerfs IMO: having the enemy run half a second longer in the opposite direction of your escape path is the difference between life and death of Vayne.
Am I exaggerating?
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On January 17 2012 11:57 little fancy wrote:Show nested quote +Vayne
Base movement speed reduced to 300 from 305
Night Hunter movement speed reduced to 30 from 40
Tumble bonus damage reduced to 30/35/40/45/50% from 40/45/50/55/60%
Final Hour Tumble stealth duration reduced to 1 second from 1.5
Coming changes. To be honest, I'm horrified. I just thought Riot was going to steadily tweak champs step by step (see MF buff for example over the last few patches) and now they return to using the nerf hammer IMO. Base movement speed reduction is fine. Passive nerf is significant, especially when taken into account that it's total of -30 movement speed when ultimate is active. Tumble nerf seems like Riot only wants Vayne players to use it as a repositioning / chasing tool instead of an harassing technique. Reducing stealth by 33% is one of the most crucial nerfs IMO: having the enemy run half a second longer in the opposite direction of your escape path is the difference between life and death of Vayne. Am I exaggerating?
Nerf looks very harsh to me.
I feel that her numbers were too strong but this nerf goes a little far, Vayne looks pretty crippled now.
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Hey all - fairly new LoL'r here and I play off and on occasionally with some friends who are pretty hardcore. My question is - I'm skilled enough to perform decently in games and Vayne is far and away my favorite character to play but with the sheer number of champions available to play I was wondering that as someone who doesn't have a thorough knowledge of the characters who would you recommend as someone I might like playing that is somewhat similar? I've got a bunch of points saved up so I could probably stand to buy a couple of older characters...
...Ideas?
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Vayne is an AD carry with a special kit not like right-click AD carry like Ashe or Cait. If you like to play AD carry and Vayne, I think you should try Ezereal out.
But just play the game more, if you are not lv 30 yet, just try a bunch of champions when they are free, so you can some more roles when it comes to ranked game.
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If you are planning to play Vayne, then the Mobafire guide is a wonderful tool for starting off. I have been playing Vayne from summoner level 5 to almost 24 now, and I absolutely lagree with this Mobafire guide after trying out several Vayne builds. Using generally the same ideas, I play Vayne around 80% of my games where I either become ridiculously fed, or break above even on K/D.
First off, let's get an idea of her roles in a standard team. Vayne is meant to be played as an assassin in team fights, staying behind friendly champions and waiting until an enemy makes a mistake. As soon as an enemy oversteps their bounds by even a small margin, it's Vayne's job to start chasing them down and kill them quickly. In 1v1 fights, Vayne also has to know exactly when to retreat and when to go for the kill. Both of these roles stem from her squishyness: she's basically already dead if caught off guard and no means of escape.
With that in mind, let's start talking about the strategy behind Vayne. One of the biggest problems people have with her is dieing in the first 10 or 15 minutes, the moments when she's at her most vulnerable. This weakness is due to two important facts.
First, Vayne relies heavily on her spells to either escape or turn a fight into her favor. At the lower levels, she simply doesn't have enough spells leveled to engage anyone in a direct fight. Instead of direct fights, Vayne needs to either harass enough with Tumble and weaken her enemies before commiting to the kill, or simply avoid champions who are much more powerful in the early game. The best way I can explain this early game play style is to treat every Tumble and Silver Ring as a decision where you MUST come out ahead in harass damage. If you can continuously harass them enough that they get behind on health, then you can wait until the enemy blows one of their spell cooldowns on a minion, then use Vayne's ultimate to chase and kill them.
The second fact is that Vayne is HEAVILY reliant on her ability to feed on kills throughout the game. If your K/D ends up 0/5 or worse by the end of the 10 minute mark, you are honestly already screwed for the rest of the game. You might be able to even out your K/D ratio over time, but you still won't be providing your allies with the adequate burst damage they require during team fights. Your deaths, loss of xp, gold, and champion kills have already set you behind in damage output via the items you could have had.
While on the subject of items, let's discuss Vayne's abilities and how they correlate to the items mentioned in the Mobafire guide linked above. The first important thing you should notice is that all of Vayne's recommended items are extremely expensive. These define your capabilities as an assassin champion by a large margin. For example, if you have already bought your level 2 boots and working towards your first BF Sword, you will start noticing a huge loss in damage output compared to your enemies. This is because, most likely, they have already made a cheaper purchase of their own that sways fights into their favor. Try to line up your confidence with harassing and killing with how recent your last major item purchase was. A single BF Sword will make Vayne way more powerful and harder to escape from.
With all of that said, I will leave remaining explanations of Vayne to Mobafire itself. The writer of the guide explains extremely well why Vayne should level up certain spells before others, and how to specifically utilize them.
The only thing left is to quickly mention my opinion of the Mobafire guide. Looking at masteries, I simply don't get why Havoc isn't taken in the Damage tree. 1.5% extra damage is extremely useful in every possible way, more so than the small amounts of magic resist or armor you are getting from the first tier of Defense. In terms of build order, I choose to buy Vampiric Scepter first for two reasons. One is that Doran's Blade doesn't actually contribute towards building any higher quality items. The second and most important is that the Lifesteal becomes extremely helpful over time. Just sit back and auto attack close-by minions to continuously heal yourself. If the enemy champion comes in to scare you away from minions, just Tumble away and get some hits off later on when they decide to back out.
That's all for now! Hope you found my thoughts on Vayne helpful in any possible way.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/vayneco.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/vayne2.jpg/)
