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Morello on Preview: Tryndamere updates!
http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/8797/?p=1
"Hey all,
We've got a pretty exciting update coming in for Tryndamere in the next patch. There's some fun content surprises related to it, but I wanted to talk about the mechanics side of this update;
Rage
Ever since Renekton, we've been thinking about the potential of a rage-related system to Tryndamere's Bloodlust. We've utilized the resource system to manage Bloodlust stacks;
* The bar maxes out at 100 Rage
* Each normal hit Tryndamere does to any minion or champion grants 5 Rage
* Crits grant 10 rage
* Killing blows on anything grant double the rage (10 for hits, 20 for crits).
* Bloodlust's bonus is now based on the rage you have (for both the bonus stats and the heal).
Why change this, you may be asking? A few reasons drove this:
* Tryndamere is great in mid and low elo, but really falls off in more competitive play. This is largely due to an early game that's really binary, and how hard it is to do anything if you can't dominate your lane. The rage system evens this out a little bit.
* Bloodlust is hard to understand as the opponent, and watching the buff bar is not as optimal for the user experience. By moving the same mechanics into the resource bar, it's easier to see and communicate, plus generally "cooler"
* It makes sense! Tryndamere is a barbarian that uses rage-themed skills A Fury meter would be what we would had done if the tech were in the same state when we launched.
We think this is going to be a nice update for Tryndamere, both for players who use him and players who fight him."
He also said in the same thread that "HP costs have been removed entirely" and "Nothing really costs Rage, it's just like Bloodlust. You get bonus stats for having it, and your Q consumes it to heal."
So no longer needs to crit to gain stacks, interesting.
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Great this will finaly fix his R in low skill unorganized solo queues ... oh wait
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On July 11 2011 21:16 Gandling wrote:Morello on Preview: Tryndamere updates! http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/8797/?p=1"Hey all, We've got a pretty exciting update coming in for Tryndamere in the next patch. There's some fun content surprises related to it, but I wanted to talk about the mechanics side of this update; Rage Ever since Renekton, we've been thinking about the potential of a rage-related system to Tryndamere's Bloodlust. We've utilized the resource system to manage Bloodlust stacks; * The bar maxes out at 100 Rage * Each normal hit Tryndamere does to any minion or champion grants 5 Rage * Crits grant 10 rage * Killing blows on anything grant double the rage (10 for hits, 20 for crits). * Bloodlust's bonus is now based on the rage you have (for both the bonus stats and the heal). Why change this, you may be asking? A few reasons drove this: * Tryndamere is great in mid and low elo, but really falls off in more competitive play. This is largely due to an early game that's really binary, and how hard it is to do anything if you can't dominate your lane. The rage system evens this out a little bit. * Bloodlust is hard to understand as the opponent, and watching the buff bar is not as optimal for the user experience. By moving the same mechanics into the resource bar, it's easier to see and communicate, plus generally "cooler" * It makes sense! Tryndamere is a barbarian that uses rage-themed skills A Fury meter would be what we would had done if the tech were in the same state when we launched. We think this is going to be a nice update for Tryndamere, both for players who use him and players who fight him." He also said in the same thread that "HP costs have been removed entirely" and "Nothing really costs Rage, it's just like Bloodlust. You get bonus stats for having it, and your Q consumes it to heal." So no longer needs to crit to gain stacks, interesting.
this means better jungling than ever I guess
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On July 11 2011 22:27 NightWalks wrote:
Great this will finaly fix his R in low skill unorganized solo queues ... oh wait
? what was the problem with that
every single champ can carry in those games with pretty much any build
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Farmed tryndamere's. lol oh god.
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I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit.
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On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit.
Well crit killing blows used to be worth 25% of his total rage bar. Now it's only worth about 20 percent of his rage bar. This is actually a bit worse, but hey, 5% is much better than 0% in terms of non crit, non kill hits. Also, crits or last hits will now be worth 10% rather than the 12.5% it used to be worth.
For this reason, don't think of it as a quadruple rage. Just think of it as a double rage (like it is currently), and that you get half rage per hit, which is huge for trynd.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit.
Think of it this way: crit killing blows are worth infinitely more rage right now than regular hits. This makes him MORE consistent, not less consistent.
Also, Trynd ult isn't why Trynd wrecks in low Elo. Trynd wrecks in low Elo by virtue of the fact that low Elo players don't know how to end games, and Trynd becomes strong lategame because he gets arguably the hardest-to-itemize DPS stat in the game for free (crit damage).
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Finland33997 Posts
On July 12 2011 04:23 [Agony]x90 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit. Well crit killing blows used to be worth 25% of his total rage bar. Now it's only worth about 20 percent of his rage bar. This is actually a bit worse, but hey, 5% is much better than 0% in terms of non crit, non kill hits. Also, crits or last hits will now be worth 10% rather than the 12.5% it used to be worth. For this reason, don't think of it as a quadruple rage. Just think of it as a double rage (like it is currently), and that you get half rage per hit, which is huge for trynd.
Before: Killing crit: 25 rage, killing normal hit 12.5 rage, crit 12.5 rage.
The only thing that got buffed is normal hit giving 5 rage, which is almost entirely useless in the laning phase as you mostly want to just lasthit. It's going to be useful when fighting against champions, I guess(Although you'd have to be a fool to engage without max stacks anyway).
Overall I'd say it's a nerf, but if they remove health costs it might help.
To the person who says that trynd ult makes him able to 1v5 at trip digit elo, that's really dumb. His ulti doesn't really do anything in those cases, he can 2-hit or 3-hit any of the squishy people who can't kite and won't ever need to use the ulti. That's a huge misconception most of the time.
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On July 12 2011 04:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:23 [Agony]x90 wrote:On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit. Well crit killing blows used to be worth 25% of his total rage bar. Now it's only worth about 20 percent of his rage bar. This is actually a bit worse, but hey, 5% is much better than 0% in terms of non crit, non kill hits. Also, crits or last hits will now be worth 10% rather than the 12.5% it used to be worth. For this reason, don't think of it as a quadruple rage. Just think of it as a double rage (like it is currently), and that you get half rage per hit, which is huge for trynd. Before: Killing crit: 25 rage, killing normal hit 12.5 rage, crit 12.5 rage. The only thing that got buffed is normal hit giving 5 rage, which is almost entirely useless in the laning phase as you mostly want to just lasthit. It's going to be useful when fighting against champions, I guess(Although you'd have to be a fool to engage without max stacks anyway). Overall I'd say it's a nerf, but if they remove health costs it might help. To the person who says that trynd ult makes him able to 1v5 at trip digit elo, that's really dumb. His ulti doesn't really do anything in those cases, he can 2-hit or 3-hit any of the squishy people who can't kite and won't ever need to use the ulti. That's a huge misconception most of the time.
And you know that the new Q will heal exaclty as much as the old Q from where?
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On July 12 2011 04:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:23 [Agony]x90 wrote:On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit. Well crit killing blows used to be worth 25% of his total rage bar. Now it's only worth about 20 percent of his rage bar. This is actually a bit worse, but hey, 5% is much better than 0% in terms of non crit, non kill hits. Also, crits or last hits will now be worth 10% rather than the 12.5% it used to be worth. For this reason, don't think of it as a quadruple rage. Just think of it as a double rage (like it is currently), and that you get half rage per hit, which is huge for trynd. Before: Killing crit: 25 rage, killing normal hit 12.5 rage, crit 12.5 rage. The only thing that got buffed is normal hit giving 5 rage, which is almost entirely useless in the laning phase as you mostly want to just lasthit. It's going to be useful when fighting against champions, I guess(Although you'd have to be a fool to engage without max stacks anyway). Overall I'd say it's a nerf, but if they remove health costs it might help. To the person who says that trynd ult makes him able to 1v5 at trip digit elo, that's really dumb. His ulti doesn't really do anything in those cases, he can 2-hit or 3-hit any of the squishy people who can't kite and won't ever need to use the ulti. That's a huge misconception most of the time.
Well, yea, I guess that was what I was saying, just wasn't clear >.<. But still, from the games i used to play as trynd, the 5 per normal hit does help, because i've had many situations where i've been completely zoned and needed some help. Now this way, even if i can steal an auto attack on a creep here and there, i might be able to get enough to get more health from Q. If the function of Q is the same as it was before (aka you get so much hp depending on how much charges you have), grabbing early AP, as silly as it sounds, could allow you to grab one attack and get decent HP from it.
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Finland33997 Posts
On July 12 2011 05:26 [Agony]x90 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:40 Shikyo wrote:On July 12 2011 04:23 [Agony]x90 wrote:On July 12 2011 02:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
I really, really don't like that crit killing blows will be worth quadruple rage. I'm just imagining jungling and being totally screwed by lack of last hit crits, or being in lane against him and having him a ton of life off the timing of a crit. Well crit killing blows used to be worth 25% of his total rage bar. Now it's only worth about 20 percent of his rage bar. This is actually a bit worse, but hey, 5% is much better than 0% in terms of non crit, non kill hits. Also, crits or last hits will now be worth 10% rather than the 12.5% it used to be worth. For this reason, don't think of it as a quadruple rage. Just think of it as a double rage (like it is currently), and that you get half rage per hit, which is huge for trynd. Before: Killing crit: 25 rage, killing normal hit 12.5 rage, crit 12.5 rage. The only thing that got buffed is normal hit giving 5 rage, which is almost entirely useless in the laning phase as you mostly want to just lasthit. It's going to be useful when fighting against champions, I guess(Although you'd have to be a fool to engage without max stacks anyway). Overall I'd say it's a nerf, but if they remove health costs it might help. To the person who says that trynd ult makes him able to 1v5 at trip digit elo, that's really dumb. His ulti doesn't really do anything in those cases, he can 2-hit or 3-hit any of the squishy people who can't kite and won't ever need to use the ulti. That's a huge misconception most of the time. Well, yea, I guess that was what I was saying, just wasn't clear >.<. But still, from the games i used to play as trynd, the 5 per normal hit does help, because i've had many situations where i've been completely zoned and needed some help. Now this way, even if i can steal an auto attack on a creep here and there, i might be able to get enough to get more health from Q. If the function of Q is the same as it was before (aka you get so much hp depending on how much charges you have), grabbing early AP, as silly as it sounds, could allow you to grab one attack and get decent HP from it.
In my opinion, especially in those getting denied-situations this is a nerf because the one hit you want to get in is going to be a lasthit. When lasthitting under a tower, trynd also doesn't need to attack much without it being a lasthit, as his dmg should be high enough to 1-hit melee after 2 tower hits and ranged after 1 tower shot.
However, for jungling and later game this definitely is a buff(Until close to 100% crit).
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Yea, I think what they had in mind with this was mostly for jungling since it barely changes his laning at all (unless they of course change the healing on bloodlust), assuming you will occasionally hit a creep without it being a last-hit.
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This update....
Itll buff my 38% aspd tryndamere.
This is good.
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United States47024 Posts
You guys are all assuming that 12.5 rage = 1 bloodlust stack. Wouldn't it make more sense for the conversion to be 10 rage = 1 bloodlust stack, seeing as it'll be really weird for them to detail the stat bonuses in terms of AD/crit per 12.5 rage rather than per 10?
Obviously the rage meter going to 100 and the 5 rage per autoattack will be a huge buff, but keep in mind that Riot probably thinks Trynd needs that huge of a buff atm.
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Tryn is way to OP imo...auto attack for 500 in the mid game with over 90 percent crit..not fair..but fun to use ^_^.. I win 90 percent of my games with him
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new tryn is so shitty imo
On a rational level:
He doesnt do more damage than other carries do now, why should i play him at all.
He gets almost nothing now from being on low HP, and using up fury with Q takes away every steroid he has.---> His jungling got slower, less viable routes. Probably needs wriggles now to get the same speed as old tryndamere.
He got no utility, and only ordinary damage now -> glasscannon build is a must? If you build tanky, you dont do much dmg at all, while other tanky dps bring just as muchor more dmg and more utility. Old trynd built glass cannon but he was a threat because of his extraordinary dmg output.
On an emotional level:
It doesn't feel thrilling playing him anymore. He got less unique, and at the same time uninteresting for me.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2011 06:46 freelander wrote:
new tryn is so shitty imo
On a rational level:
He doesnt do more damage than other carries do now, why should i play him at all.
He gets almost nothing now from being on low HP, and using up fury with Q takes away every steroid he has.---> His jungling got slower, less viable routes. Probably needs wriggles now to get the same speed as old tryndamere.
He got no utility, and only ordinary damage now -> glasscannon build is a must? If you build tanky, you dont do much dmg at all, while other tanky dps bring just as muchor more dmg and more utility. Old trynd built glass cannon but he was a threat because of his extraordinary dmg output.
On an emotional level:
It doesn't feel thrilling playing him anymore. He got less unique, and at the same time uninteresting for me.
I totally disagree with you ^_^ I feel his damage is greater than most carriers ... and im fine with his Q taking his fury, cause early game you don't need it as much... and if late game you use it and need a quick refresh of fury...go tag a few minions or kill a group of wraiths...your fury fills up super fast with that crit rate.. I also think he still is a threat and does to extraordinary damage output... just me though
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He lost his main steroid aka crit dmg.
If in a late game battle you use Q for healing, you lose every steroid you have, old trynd only lost his crit dmg+dmg buff, he retained his extra crit chance from passive. (he had a permanent 10 % crit bonus, thats gone too) Then you start recharging your fury, what you will do probably slower than old trynd.
Basicly everything you got over other carries is extra 35 % crit chance WHEN your fury bar is full.
That's not a lot.. the game uses a pseudo random generator now so crit chance over 50-60 % is not terribly useful anyways.
Other carries usually have range, attackspeed or other steroids just as good as your dmg + crit buff. You dont do more dmg than them.
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On August 02 2011 06:46 freelander wrote:
new tryn is so shitty imo
On a rational level:
He doesnt do more damage than other carries do now, why should i play him at all.
He gets almost nothing now from being on low HP, and using up fury with Q takes away every steroid he has.---> His jungling got slower, less viable routes. Probably needs wriggles now to get the same speed as old tryndamere.
He got no utility, and only ordinary damage now -> glasscannon build is a must? If you build tanky, you dont do much dmg at all, while other tanky dps bring just as muchor more dmg and more utility. Old trynd built glass cannon but he was a threat because of his extraordinary dmg output.
On an emotional level:
It doesn't feel thrilling playing him anymore. He got less unique, and at the same time uninteresting for me.
His lane his insanely strong now and with some hybrid AP builds his sustain with heal is kinda silly. Lane strength means you don't have to have a full retard team feed him to be effective.
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EPT
