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On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot?
The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc.
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When blizz doesn't advertise it, I usually don't see it.
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On August 12 2015 03:28 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
When blizz doesn't advertise it, I usually don't see it.
true. I've been saying it and I won't stop: The arcade/custom game needs an overhaul!
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On August 12 2015 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc.
Why not starting the fun instantly?
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On August 12 2015 04:18 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc. Why not starting the fun instantly?
Then turn off the build order and do as you please.
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On August 12 2015 04:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 04:18 [F_]aths wrote:On August 12 2015 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc. Why not starting the fun instantly? Then turn off the build order and do as you please.
If you want to play with a BO, you can print it out and attach it to the side of the monitor, or use a second monitor if you have one.
How fun would it be to try out a new game and get commanded around by the game?
Do you really would want Blizzard to put resources into developing something which could be viewed as distractive or pushy, instead of having the team working to improve the actual game?
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Actually, I would be much much more interested if there was a "make your own build order" tool provided by blizzard. Something that can roughly model based on all the economic data in the game that spits out a build order from an input, rather than one that just has built in build orders that you follow.
Like say I'm playing terran and I wanted a build order that involves cloaked banshees. I put in "cloaked banshee" into the tool and it spits out a bunch of different builds that involves cloaked banshees and a rough estimate of when they would come out. And if you could combine criteria like "fast expand" and "cloaked banshee" together so the game does the calculation for you and gives you suggestions. Obviously it would be optimizing on a few parameters and not be ideal for the super high end meta game, but it would help players be alot more creative.
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On August 12 2015 04:24 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 04:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 04:18 [F_]aths wrote:On August 12 2015 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc. Why not starting the fun instantly? Then turn off the build order and do as you please. If you want to play with a BO, you can print it out and attach it to the side of the monitor, or use a second monitor if you have one. How fun would it be to try out a new game and get commanded around by the game? Do you really would want Blizzard to put resources into developing something which could be viewed as distractive or pushy, instead of having the team working to improve the actual game?
Sure. When I play dota and the recommended items come up for me and it takes slightly more effort to go find other items that aren't in the build, I don't feel like the game or the author of the build is commanding me.
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Sounds like they achieve this and more if they just organize arcade smartly.
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On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot?
It's a great idea. If you are new how else will u find build orders? Plus it's not like you are forced to do it. If you want it, it's there, if not then you don't use it. Its just an extra feature. More features in games are always a good thing.
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On August 12 2015 04:24 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 04:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 04:18 [F_]aths wrote:On August 12 2015 03:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? The BO is mostly for the early game. Like up to a certain number of minutes, assuming there's no cheese or any other wacky shenanigans, it gets you X tech, Y units, Z bases, and possibly some sort of timing push. After that there might be loose guidelines but the player is left completely on their own on the "fun" part of the game - attacking, microing units around, etc. Why not starting the fun instantly? Then turn off the build order and do as you please. If you want to play with a BO, you can print it out and attach it to the side of the monitor, or use a second monitor if you have one. How fun would it be to try out a new game and get commanded around by the game? Do you really would want Blizzard to put resources into developing something which could be viewed as distractive or pushy, instead of having the team working to improve the actual game?
I think you have the wrong idea totally. This mode is not something you are forced into. The same way you see Custom Game, Online, Arcade. below that would be a Build Order tab. It's not like you have to do something. It offers tools inside the game rather than alt tabbing to outside sources or scrolling threw the arcade. Things inside the game are always better. Destiny tried to make this silly story mode stuff on cards. But you had to go to an outside website to read the story. The point is it's outside the game and that is never good.
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Imagine a website, connecting the breadth and whole of human knowledge, that you could question at will, for free, and receive numerous relevant multimedia responses?!
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On August 12 2015 08:16 TimeSpiral wrote:
Imagine a website, connecting the breadth and whole of human knowledge, that you could question at will, for free, and receive numerous relevant multimedia responses?!
Imagine not being able to use this website because you're a bit busy playing SC2.
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VERY good idea, well done!
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On August 12 2015 08:10 djwaters22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? It's a great idea. If you are new how else will u find build orders? Plus it's not like you are forced to do it. If you want it, it's there, if not then you don't use it. Its just an extra feature. More features in games are always a good thing.
yeah. if you ever read the strategy section people are constantly coming back to the game or new to the game and they're asking about build orders, where to find them, if the ones in the help threads are updated, etc - and often they're not. plus not everyone is a teamliquid regular or knows how to tell guides from 2011 from recent meta. sc2 has an insane learning curve and for some people they might have no idea where to start.
i know people who have played for years and still sit on one base making two gases and a roach warren because they just have no concept of game flow. it's not because they're idiots, it's because they're light players who don't watch pro games, and those players could really enjoy and benefit from a live action visual guide
the idea that guides on how to play competitive 1v1 will be off putting because you're being "commanded what to do" is beyond insane. everyone who learns to play the game is taking direction from pro games, online guides, friends who are better than them, etc. hardly anyone is just going to intuitively climb the ladder based on their experience in bronze league because it's tedious and less efficient
as for the argument that people can just find guides somewhere else, that's not an argument at all. don't give people convenience and quality of life features because they can figure out things in other, less convenient ways? ok lol, great way to treat the playerbase - "figure it out yourself"
this scene's elitists are absolutely the worst thing about SC
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On August 12 2015 22:22 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2015 08:10 djwaters22 wrote:On August 12 2015 02:19 [F_]aths wrote:
I don't know if this is the best idea.
Imagine you are a newbie and want to play this strategy game. Then you see, that there is this BO thing which asks you to play for the next minutes as the computer asks you. Do you feel like an actual player, or like a robot? It's a great idea. If you are new how else will u find build orders? Plus it's not like you are forced to do it. If you want it, it's there, if not then you don't use it. Its just an extra feature. More features in games are always a good thing. yeah. if you ever read the strategy section people are constantly coming back to the game or new to the game and they're asking about build orders, where to find them, if the ones in the help threads are updated, etc - and often they're not. plus not everyone is a teamliquid regular or knows how to tell guides from 2011 from recent meta. sc2 has an insane learning curve and for some people they might have no idea where to start. i know people who have played for years and still sit on one base making two gases and a roach warren because they just have no concept of game flow. it's not because they're idiots, it's because they're light players who don't watch pro games, and those players could really enjoy and benefit from a live action visual guide the idea that guides on how to play competitive 1v1 will be off putting because you're being "commanded what to do" is beyond insane. everyone who learns to play the game is taking direction from pro games, online guides, friends who are better than them, etc. hardly anyone is just going to intuitively climb the ladder based on their experience in bronze league because it's tedious and less efficient as for the argument that people can just find guides somewhere else, that's not an argument at all. don't give people convenience and quality of life features because they can figure out things in other, less convenient ways? ok lol, great way to treat the playerbase - "figure it out yourself" this scene's elitists are absolutely the worst thing about SC
Very good post and points. I have played since the WOL beta and still have a hard time understanding game flow.
I prefer this to not be a tutorial mode, because I find most tutorials I feel are bad.
BUT just integrate yabot basically  or this idea of a "build order" maker or mode with lots of options
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I just wish that more BO testers like YABOT were current and accessible to all. I think that a very good point has been made that if Blizzard would stop failing with the arcade then we could already have a build order teaching custom game and many many more game types I can't even think of right now!
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People were already suggesting or asking for it during WoL times and IMO it would have kept more active players at SC2.
Not new but still a good idea but also maybe to late.
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On August 13 2015 21:02 b3nd3r wrote:
People were already suggesting or asking for it during WoL times and IMO it would have kept more active players at SC2.
Not new but still a good idea but also maybe to late.
lets do our best to get this idea heard!
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EPT
