EPTAbout scouting it: it's like scouting banshee hellbat build - basically you need to be on 2 gases at a certain point (don't know minutes because its different in LotV and I haven't memorized it yet), and if you are on 2 gases at that point, there aren't many other possible scenarios. Maybe a gimmick or two, but that goes for any scouted build.
Liberator in TVZ : is it imba? - Page 4
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
About scouting it: it's like scouting banshee hellbat build - basically you need to be on 2 gases at a certain point (don't know minutes because its different in LotV and I haven't memorized it yet), and if you are on 2 gases at that point, there aren't many other possible scenarios. Maybe a gimmick or two, but that goes for any scouted build. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 22 2015 03:08 _indigo_ wrote: I didn't take it against me but I think we need even more posts like this, and not saying "I already said it". Do it again. People think the build is godlike or something. It's strong, yes, but strategies haven't developed yet. About scouting it: it's like scouting banshee hellbat build - basically you need to be on 2 gases at a certain point (don't know minutes because its different in LotV and I haven't memorized it yet), and if you are on 2 gases at that point, there aren't many other possible scenarios. Maybe a gimmick or two, but that goes for any scouted build. Couldn't this be a regular banshee build? Also tank drops take two gases I think. And with the 12worker start I wouldn't take anything like that for granted. You have so many extra minerals compared to tech that taking a second gas early might just become standard macro, regardless what you want to do as you have the minerals anyways. | ||
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
I agree about the banshee though. But for banshee you need spores anyway so it's the same counter. Tbh, you don't really need a counter for banshee, just spore defence. For it to become a standard build ... well, if you go 3cc which is even more encouraged right now with less minerals in a patch, you won't have 2 gases - you just can't, or you wont have any units at all if you do. Maybe other builds with 2 gas will emerge, but until defending them is completely different than hellbat liberators there is no huge problem IMO. If you take a TvP perspective, there are a good handful of builds you just can't scout and it's still possible to adapt. You just have to try a couple of times, not simply decide that it can't be done. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
I'm aware this is not always possible in 4 player maps. Even in HotS some builds weren't scoutable on 4p maps. But to be fair, opening with 3hatch and creep between bases and preparing lings speed is not a bad opener in any scenario. Spores can get up pretty fast if you need them when you see more than 2 hellions. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On July 22 2015 04:08 jpg06051992 wrote: Yea, the ground dps is pretty high, but things are just OP in the beta, like when I massacre a Protoss army with Lurkers, it looks pretty OP, but since I know no real concrete Korean made strategies have surfaced and that we all suck, things that are "OP" might be totally balanced. Lurkers has answer, Liberators in the early game... dont. And that is the difference in OP | ||
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
On July 22 2015 05:52 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote: Liberators in the early game... dont. And that is the difference in OP People just told you from their experience that they Do. But since you've already decided... | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On July 21 2015 14:44 avilo wrote: Liberator is what the siege tank should be - allow you to leapfrog a push across the map. Tanks unfortunately don't do enough damage because they were nerfed shortly after wings of liberty was released and no one knew how to play the game at that time and thought mech was imba. That's why most WOL/HOTS games are frustrating turtle mech games (for the person playing it and the opponent) because tanks suck in low numbers and you can NEVER move out on the map with them. Liberators are great in low numbers you can really feel the impact of the unit because it does damage like the old siege tank used to. It really is zone control, your enemy can't just walk into an area with a liberator and be like "haha i don't care." Because they will lose a ton of units. That is what the siege tank was SUPPOSED to be doing this entire time, making someone scared to a-move into a tank line or anywhere in range unless they were going to commit to the engagement and trade. Liberator already has huge weaknesses/counters even more so than the siege tank. If you mis-position it and don't target it in a smart manner or cover it with other units, it dies in like 4 shots to things like hydras or stalkers lol. I started playing the beta again and really am enjoying TvZ / TvT solely because of this unit adding so much to positional play. With all the above being said, from my perspective of someone that has played 1000's of boring turtle mech games because the gameplay design of SC2 forced me to sit in my base till i had 20 ravens and 20 tanks etc...it feels really fun to be able to be out on the map with liberators and mech units doing a slow leap frog push brood war style and be able to trade against my opponent's units. You enjoy the free beatings on Zerg Avilo? You never admit a T race is overpowered or needs to be tweaked. I have never seen you do that. On the contrary, your history of posting claims T deserves buffs when it doesn't. Just because a tank feels lackluster to you doesn't mean a brand new unit should compensate for it by being outrageously broken. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On July 22 2015 05:56 _indigo_ wrote: People just told you from their experience that they Do. But since you've already decided... Yeah i see you defending terran always while complaining about zerg... sorry for not trusting you. But Ravagers cant deal with it in masters and 2 base muta puts you to far behind. Its IMBA from 1 shoting hydras to other stuff. You just want to keep it in the game for free wins | ||
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
On July 22 2015 06:00 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote: Yeah i see you defending terran always while complaining about zerg... sorry for not trusting you. But Ravagers cant deal with it in masters and 2 base muta puts you to far behind. Its IMBA from 1 shoting hydras to other stuff. You just want to keep it in the game for free wins If you read my post you'd see I said that 2 hatch muta is a bad way to deal with it. Even ravagers aren't my suggestion really. Just lol. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On July 22 2015 06:21 _indigo_ wrote: If you read my post you'd see I said that 2 hatch muta is a bad way to deal with it. Even ravagers aren't my suggestion really. Just lol. Yeah i know your just agreeing with other people that also dont know what they talk about. I know your basically a troll cuz your posts cant be this bad if your not a troll. User was warned for this post | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Oleum
Canada11 Posts
On July 22 2015 02:26 Zode wrote: I thought I said my solution to it currently earlier in this thread: Few spores while going roach vs hellbat as lair finishes, get spire pop 5ish corruptors and go with roach speed to apply pressure while taking 3rd/transition. It's worked rather well for me so far... Corruptors only work vs small number of liberator. More than 7 or 8, an even number of corruptors get killed in 2 shot before they can do any real damage. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On July 22 2015 07:12 Oleum wrote: Corruptors only work vs small number of liberator. More than 7 or 8, an even number of corruptors get killed in 2 shot before they can do any real damage. If you get to that point, Vipers with PB are the best answer... the problem is you dont get to that point. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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-StrifeX-
United States529 Posts
Fussing with ZergLingShepherd1 for anyone on here is a waste of time. He takes his time to complain in every topic and every twitch chat. We can have zergs win 5 GSL and WCS finals in a row in lotv and I bet he will still believe zerg is too weak. I honestly not even sure if he has played the beta since he's watched QXC. Could always change races, it's never too late. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 22 2015 10:41 -StrifeX- wrote: I could be wrong guys, But i think it's called beta for a reason...If we instantly patch something after a build surfaces after only what not even 2 weeks? Yes i know it was brought on by a patch...But I think asking for another patch to revert or change it is a little too soon. There isn't enough time to consider it overpowered at this point, It's currently too strong but we also have to give it enough time for all options to be explored. If blizzard patches something every time people scream we will be having patches weekly. Well, it's called a beta for a reason. They should do whatever they want with it. When the build doesn't go into the direction they want it to go they should straight up nerf it down, regardless whether it is overpowered or not. Design comes first! | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
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