|
The Ghost simply needs to be freed up from its centrality in bio TvP. It also goes without saying that mech should be able to operate without EMP. Otherwise, we just cannot do much out of the unit, as we'll drown ourselves in the issue of EMP showers (1) being an absolute TvP requirement and (2) potentially snowballing out of control.
So, assuming the two following principles:
(1) Terran is free from the mandatory EMP in TvP (no more super high-stake Ghosts vs HT wars, etc.).
(2) We change as little as possible (i. e. no new spells, etc.).
... I would propose this:
GHOST
Decrease mineral cost to 50, down from 200.
Decrease gas cost to 75, down from 100.
Decrease supply cost to 1, down from 2.
Decrease production time to 35, down from 40.
Decrease hit points to 60, down from 100.
Decrease damage to 6 (+6 vs Light).
Reintroduce Moebius Reactor.
Snipe changed to 35 damage, -10 vs Massive, +10 vs Psionic.
Decrease the speed of the EMP missile (~slightly faster than Fungal).
EMP now removes 75 shields, down from 100.
EMP now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Tactical Nuke now deals 750/375/200 damage, up from 500/250/125.
|
Ghosts were great at the start and people used them to good effect. Unfortunately Blizzard nerfed them hard before anyone really had a chance to learn how to counter them.
Now you don't see them because they're not as good an investment as simply making more bio.
The forced necessity of Terran bio is the worst thing to happen to this game, imo.
|
They needed to get nerfed hard, as they shut down both late game branches of zerg - Ultralisks and Broodlords.
But a lot has happened since then, so a reevaluation of the ghost sounds very appealing to me.
|
On April 19 2015 08:32 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
They needed to get nerfed hard, as they shut down both late game branches of zerg - Ultralisks and Broodlords.
But a lot has happened since then, so a reevaluation of the ghost sounds very appealing to me.
They didn't need to get nerfed as hard as they were, clearly. They're hardly used now.
|
On April 19 2015 08:32 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
They needed to get nerfed hard, as they shut down both late game branches of zerg - Ultralisks and Broodlords.
But a lot has happened since then, so a reevaluation of the ghost sounds very appealing to me.
I never really felt this way. I feel like they were strong, and even a soft counter, but by no means a hardcounter.
Almost every single game the Zergs lost their mass BL to mass ghost, there was a recurring theme. The ghosts were always cloaked and unseen as the 2-3 overseers were picked off via snipe. BL > Ghosts in a 1v1 if ghosts don't have cloak. If Zergs just make like 10 overseers, it wouldn't have been an issue, and there were countless games where I saw this happen.
A fungal at the same time would pin them, but then Terran had the EMP and would get all the infestors. I actually liked seeing this dynamic (as who actually likes watching *mass* infestor).
I do admit that they were borderline hard counter to ultras though.
I play random now, but I only played Zerg when the Ghosts were super strong. Didn't think it was that big of a deal, I kind of liked it.
|
I haven't played sc2 actively since the end of WoL, but what changed to make the ghost not useful? I don't claim to have necessarily played the same way anyone else did, but my understanding of the ghost back then was that they were a staple part of every composition against every race.
In tvp if you had fewer than 12-16 ghosts you were wrong-- you needed them to blanket EMP their army, Snipe HTs, and after a certain point nuke harass was most cost and supply efficient than dropping marine/marauder if you were going bio.
In tvz if your opponent was using infestors at all or queens offensively it was important to be able to Snipe them with ghosts, and again nuke harass is amazing.
In tvt whether you started with mech or bio the game would eventually stalemate in mostly tank + air control, so ravens became necessary to knock out Viking clusters, and thus ghosts became essential to nullify their Ravens first. And while I realize this may be different now that Medics can move sieged tanks, Nukes were the best way to force an opponent in a superior position to unsiege and move into a more compromising position.
I haven't followed all the changes in units and meta since then, but it seems like there's more spellcasters, so I would expect Ghosts to become more essential, not less. If it matters, I was top masters when I was active through the end of 2012.
|
Has anyone ever considered buffing snipe back to its original damage level but just adding a short cooldown? The total dps seemed to be the main issue, not the burst damage, plus it was pretty ridiculous that the ghost could essentially rapid-fire a sniper rifle...
|
On April 19 2015 12:30 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Has anyone ever considered buffing snipe back to its original damage level but just adding a short cooldown? The total dps seemed to be the main issue, not the burst damage, plus it was pretty ridiculous that the ghost could essentially rapid-fire a sniper rifle...
Wouldn't make a huge difference because ghosts are used in squads of like 4-5 when they did this, so it would probably just hit the other ghosts first, unless you're talking a notable cooldown.
Honestly, I still think they should just revert it back completely. I don't think it was as big of an issue as Blizzard thought it was, especially against BL. And with the new ultra "extra armor," the attack that ignores armor could be considered a very useful counter.
|
|
|
Gameplay aside, I honestly just want to have a Ghost/Spectre alternative skins like what they did with Dark Templars.
|
On April 28 2015 13:41 Brutaxilos wrote:
Gameplay aside, I honestly just want to have a Ghost/Spectre alternative skins like what they did with Dark Templars.
Need female ghosts too.
|
On April 28 2015 15:01 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 13:41 Brutaxilos wrote:
Gameplay aside, I honestly just want to have a Ghost/Spectre alternative skins like what they did with Dark Templars. Need female ghosts too.
Like there could totally be a Nova skin for Ghosts (the model already exists, so that would take absolutely zero work to do).
|
i want another ghost academy unit!!!!!!!! come blizzard listen to meh!!!!!
|
On May 03 2015 18:05 Sholip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2015 15:01 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 28 2015 13:41 Brutaxilos wrote:
Gameplay aside, I honestly just want to have a Ghost/Spectre alternative skins like what they did with Dark Templars. Need female ghosts too. Like there could totally be a Nova skin for Ghosts (the model already exists, so that would take absolutely zero work to do).
Maybe a Nova skin would be a bit overkill, but they could easily do a slight workover on the female Ghost model and put that in.
|
On April 19 2015 13:32 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 12:30 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Has anyone ever considered buffing snipe back to its original damage level but just adding a short cooldown? The total dps seemed to be the main issue, not the burst damage, plus it was pretty ridiculous that the ghost could essentially rapid-fire a sniper rifle... Wouldn't make a huge difference because ghosts are used in squads of like 4-5 when they did this, so it would probably just hit the other ghosts first, unless you're talking a notable cooldown. Honestly, I still think they should just revert it back completely. I don't think it was as big of an issue as Blizzard thought it was, especially against BL. And with the new ultra "extra armor," the attack that ignores armor could be considered a very useful counter.
It was issue big enough to mean that terrans should never build marauders or tanks to counter ultra, or vikings against any zerg unit since ghost were much stronger in all of those cases. Essentially making the hive tech units worthless. They would also hard counter lurkers in lotv.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
