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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated.
Gameplay discussion should go in the Patch Discussion thread.
Non-League of Legends dicsussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 5.22: Live on Nov. 11th, 2015
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Re: Illaoui
Nautilus would still be decent in defense situations without his Q (or if it was a hard cc but not a grab) just because he's so damn hard to kill and spams shit to make your backline hard to reach (or keep the fight in the same place).
She can do, at least defensively. You probably don't want to dive if she's had time to setup a few tentacles around the tower.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Is there going to be a meta shift to have a duo lane in mid now, and your AP carry in bot?
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On November 11 2015 05:40 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Is there going to be a meta shift to have a duo lane in mid now, and your AP carry in bot?
Think lane swapping to top would be better than mid. Mid doesn't give you many more options than going top with your duo lane. Currently supports roam enough to be active in all 3 lanes from that position anyway.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Oh my god did AP Kog just get nerfed RIP
But buff for execution snipes hmmm
New tower armour/MR system really really rewards push comps, especially with the level and minion dmg snowballing effect.
Red buff hurts towers omg
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Ambient Gold
With items costing more as part of our global efficiency pass, we're injecting more cash into the flow, as well as a little extra for the down-and-out.
FOR DOING NOTHING, YOU GET9.5 gold per 5 seconds â‡' 10.2 gold per 5 seconds
BAILOUTAfter 12 minutes, the 2 members of each team with the least gold at any given moment gain an additional 2 gold per 5 seconds (increasing by 0.1 per minute)
Not a fan.
they increased minion gold too, people are going to finish their builds really fast this season.. maybe.
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Ambient gold i am eh over but holy fuck the minion damage changes coming in the next patch
UPDATE: We froze the pushing changes below at the last minute, so these won't be going live in 5.22. They'll make their official debut in 5.23!
Comboing with the turret changes above, minions now get stronger to help the winning team press their advantage and close out the game
MINION DAMAGE BONUS If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions deal 10% bonus damage to enemy minions. If you've taken cumulatively more turrets than the enemy team, damage is further increased by 10% for each turret you have over your opponents.
ENRAGE If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane deal 90% more damage to enemy minions
MINION DAMAGE REDUCTION If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions take less damage from enemy minions equal to (tower differential x level differential) + 1. This number can't fall below 1.
IRONCLAD If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane take 7 less damage from enemy minions
Like Holy fuck pushing just got INSANE.
If you're a higher level than the enemy all your lanes auto push. For every turret advantage you have over the enemy your minions auto push harder. If you're really ahead your turrets auto push in the lane you're winning in to an insane degree.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3
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is it just me or does the adc base damage increase look broken as shit
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On November 11 2015 09:32 Goumindong wrote:Ambient gold i am eh over but holy fuck the minion damage changes coming in the next patch Show nested quote + UPDATE: We froze the pushing changes below at the last minute, so these won't be going live in 5.22. They'll make their official debut in 5.23!
Comboing with the turret changes above, minions now get stronger to help the winning team press their advantage and close out the game
MINION DAMAGE BONUS If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions deal 10% bonus damage to enemy minions. If you've taken cumulatively more turrets than the enemy team, damage is further increased by 10% for each turret you have over your opponents.
ENRAGE If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane deal 90% more damage to enemy minions
MINION DAMAGE REDUCTION If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions take less damage from enemy minions equal to (tower differential x level differential) + 1. This number can't fall below 1.
IRONCLAD If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane take 7 less damage from enemy minions Like Holy fuck pushing just got INSANE. If you're a higher level than the enemy all your lanes auto push. For every turret advantage you have over the enemy your minions auto push harder. If you're really ahead your turrets auto push in the lane you're winning in to an insane degree.
TBH I don't think the Enrage and Ironclad effects are ever really going to be all that relevant.
In virtually every situation where your team's average level is 3+, you're already stomping super hard. It just closes out one-sided games much faster.
Also, apparently this change had been on the PBE for a while, but no one ever noticed...
Source
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I thought the minion damage changes were to stop someone with a lead freezing a wave.
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On November 11 2015 09:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3
last whisper is always better for damage as a 3rd item. the reason ashe would go for BT is because the sustain would've been more important than the damage at that point
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 11 2015 11:30 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2015 09:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3 last whisper is always better for damage as a 3rd item. the reason ashe would go for BT is because the sustain would've been more important than the damage at that point
I'd just like to see maths same to Koggles pd/lw debate but not as detailed.
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Nerfing Bloodthirster pushing it further into the abyss?
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On November 11 2015 09:32 Goumindong wrote:Ambient gold i am eh over but holy fuck the minion damage changes coming in the next patch Show nested quote + UPDATE: We froze the pushing changes below at the last minute, so these won't be going live in 5.22. They'll make their official debut in 5.23!
Comboing with the turret changes above, minions now get stronger to help the winning team press their advantage and close out the game
MINION DAMAGE BONUS If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions deal 10% bonus damage to enemy minions. If you've taken cumulatively more turrets than the enemy team, damage is further increased by 10% for each turret you have over your opponents.
ENRAGE If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane deal 90% more damage to enemy minions
MINION DAMAGE REDUCTION If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions take less damage from enemy minions equal to (tower differential x level differential) + 1. This number can't fall below 1.
IRONCLAD If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane take 7 less damage from enemy minions Like Holy fuck pushing just got INSANE. If you're a higher level than the enemy all your lanes auto push. For every turret advantage you have over the enemy your minions auto push harder. If you're really ahead your turrets auto push in the lane you're winning in to an insane degree. or enemy gets fed free minion while u get starved(similar to super early inhibitor being pretty bad for "winning" team especially in soloQ), either way i hate it
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On November 11 2015 12:11 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2015 09:32 Goumindong wrote:Ambient gold i am eh over but holy fuck the minion damage changes coming in the next patch UPDATE: We froze the pushing changes below at the last minute, so these won't be going live in 5.22. They'll make their official debut in 5.23!
Comboing with the turret changes above, minions now get stronger to help the winning team press their advantage and close out the game
MINION DAMAGE BONUS If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions deal 10% bonus damage to enemy minions. If you've taken cumulatively more turrets than the enemy team, damage is further increased by 10% for each turret you have over your opponents.
ENRAGE If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane deal 90% more damage to enemy minions
MINION DAMAGE REDUCTION If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions take less damage from enemy minions equal to (tower differential x level differential) + 1. This number can't fall below 1.
IRONCLAD If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane take 7 less damage from enemy minions Like Holy fuck pushing just got INSANE. If you're a higher level than the enemy all your lanes auto push. For every turret advantage you have over the enemy your minions auto push harder. If you're really ahead your turrets auto push in the lane you're winning in to an insane degree. or enemy gets fed free minion while u get starved(similar to super early inhibitor being pretty bad for "winning" team especially in soloQ), either way i hate it
Depending on your team strategy it could either be a buff or nerf to powerfarming the jungle
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On November 11 2015 11:30 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2015 09:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3 last whisper is always better for damage as a 3rd item. the reason ashe would go for BT is because the sustain would've been more important than the damage at that point
Even with the changes to it?(assuming LW now refers to the items it upgrades into.) In the case off opposing armor items being DMP or Hourglass, even counting runes, you're only punching through 17.7 armor.
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On November 11 2015 09:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3
Lots of things changing so its hard to say. Consider this cursory. With new masteries and 10 AD in runes[this is higher than i think is optimal]
Level 18 Ashe will have about 195 AD with IE, PD and. 20 AD from runes/masteries.
So 265 AD with BT and 235 with Domincks Regards. 50% crit changes this to 463.75/411.25. So NO stacks of the bonus damage mastery leads us to.
411.25(1+armor+.6bonus-.07) = 463.75(1+armor+bonus-.07)
.6BONUS = 52.5/411.25 (1+armor-.07)
-,52765 bonus = 52.5/411.25 (1+armor-.07)
bonus = .22+armor/4.1332583
So it depends on their bonus armor and base armor where LW is better at about a rate of 22 +base armor/4. So at 100 base armor its about 50 Bonus armor.
Same thing again, but now with another 80 damage/hit
bonus =.196+armor/4.742
Or about 40 bonus armor for 100 base armor.
So LW will do more damage on almost everyone who has a single armor item. BT is probably still the better overall buy though, you don't do damage if you're dead.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
That Illaoi champ design seems pretty decent.
Edit : Dragon Trainer Tristana skin, SO AWESOME.
Gragas Caskbreaker and Braum Lionheart, Ryze Whitebeard, kek :D
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On November 11 2015 14:10 739 wrote:
That Illaoi champ design seems pretty decent.
Edit : Dragon Trainer Tristana skin, SO AWESOME.
Gragas Caskbreaker and Braum Lionheart, Ryze Whitebeard, kek :D
PBE thread.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
BTW I just went into solo queue and I have gold border. Are new borders not distributed yet and they are displayed from last season or ?
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I am looking forward to how top lane will work out in competetive now. I really like the idea of the new monster at baron spot. Should make top lane much less isolated. Also this might make ignite in top lane much more attractive. Mid could instead become the stardard tp lane. And mid will be even more about roaming and supporting other lanes.
Then again I wonder how this affects lane swaps. They should become even more frequent now.
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On November 11 2015 14:23 739 wrote:
BTW I just went into solo queue and I have gold border. Are new borders not distributed yet and they are displayed from last season or ?
I think I read somewhere they would distribute end of season rewards by the 17th so they may not be up yet.
EDIT: I got my ranked border
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Nightblue currently playing Illaoi on PBE.
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United States11390 Posts
Blue buff giving AP is pretty cool now too.
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Has the soft reset happened? I'm sitting in a game with 2 silvers, a plat and myself in plat promos. Seems super weird distribution for a ranked game.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 11 2015 13:48 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2015 09:43 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On less serious note.
Is there anyone who has maths on lw vs bt as third item on adcs?
Because there was HTC game right now where Ashe went bt third against team, where biggest armor items were hourglass/dmp and no armor besides that, is bt significantly better?
Thanks in advance, mathguys. <3 Lots of things changing so its hard to say. Consider this cursory. With new masteries and 10 AD in runes[this is higher than i think is optimal] Level 18 Ashe will have about 195 AD with IE, PD and. 20 AD from runes/masteries. So 265 AD with BT and 235 with Domincks Regards. 50% crit changes this to 463.75/411.25. So NO stacks of the bonus damage mastery leads us to. 411.25(1+armor+.6bonus-.07) = 463.75(1+armor+bonus-.07) .6BONUS = 52.5/411.25 (1+armor-.07) -,52765 bonus = 52.5/411.25 (1+armor-.07) bonus = .22+armor/4.1332583 So it depends on their bonus armor and base armor where LW is better at about a rate of 22 +base armor/4. So at 100 base armor its about 50 Bonus armor. Same thing again, but now with another 80 damage/hit bonus =.196+armor/4.742 Or about 40 bonus armor for 100 base armor. So LW will do more damage on almost everyone who has a single armor item. BT is probably still the better overall buy though, you don't do damage if you're dead.
Thanks a lot.
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Yolostar gave support masteries here.
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game looks different, idk whats changed zoom or graphic but somethings weird
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Weren't they gonna change the angle slightly to make it easier to play facing down?
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Quick thoughts on the new patch now that I played a custom game:
1) Feels like the Fervor of Battle mastery is pretty strong: a potential of 10-80 bonus AD on basic attacks on champions combined with the fact that you can stack it on minions with spells or basic attacks makes it relevant from the start of the game. Think this makes it much better than Warlord's bloodlust.
2) The farsight alteration trinket looks pretty broken: not only is it a permanent ward that can be cast safely from 4000 range, there is no limit to how many of these trinket wards you can place. Coupled with its <1 minute cooldown, it means that you could theoretically put defensive wards everywhere in your jungle as well as get some wards in the enemy jungle. And if multiple people on your team gets this trinket and spam it on cooldown, you could constantly force the enemy team to check brushes to clear the wards.
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wow the patch didnt state that graves' attack speed growth is reduced to peanuts lol, but it still kinda fun to play.
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On November 12 2015 02:29 Torchise wrote:
Quick thoughts on the new patch now that I played a custom game:
1) Feels like the Fervor of Battle mastery is pretty strong: a potential of 10-80 bonus AD on basic attacks on champions combined with the fact that you can stack it on minions with spells or basic attacks makes it relevant from the start of the game. Think this makes it much better than Warlord's bloodlust.
It certainly does to me as well. The only saving grace of the other one is that it seems that it will allow you to avoid a lifesteal item and still have powerful sustain. Which means you could go:
Boots
Pick 1: Dominic's Revenge/Mortal Reminder
IE
ER
Pick 2: Phantom Dancer/Static Shiv/Runan's/Rapid Firecannon
And so have 100% crit, 15% effective lifesteal, mana steal, and 30% CDR
If you swap ER for BT you have 80% crit, 20% lifesteal, 0% CDR, +10 AD
Base AD will be about 280-290 so max stack expected damage/attack is
740 for Fervor of Battle
725 for Bloodlust [+20% attack speed] -> 761 Damage per 1 Fervor of battle Attack*
20% attack speed will be at least 5% effective increased attack speed so 725*1.05 = 761. Keep in mind that most AD's will have a good deal more than 5% more effective attack speed so this is a low estimate [Its 5.6% real attack speed for Tristana with her Q active and the most AS from the above items. It puts her up to 2.46 attacks/second! Note that because Kog's W doubles bonus AS and because he has lower raw bonus AS from skills/levels this will increase the effect from this mastery]
So fully lategame the Bloodlust does more damage and has a lot more utility for champions which are stacking crit. They're going to gain 30% CDR and Mana steal and still do more DPS than a fully stacked Fervor
It also means that if you go first item IE you will still get some lifesteal, which makes it a lot easier to farm/play into the lategame.
Fervor however is easily better for on-hit AD's or AS based AD's like Kalista/Vayne/Ezreal/MF and farming champions out of the jungle and maybe graves [who has weaker crit scaling due to how his bullets work but also weaker AS scaling but also i don't know how his bullets interact with on-hit effects]
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So anyone wanna feed me some quick OPs? I'm only on Graves hypetrain so far.
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On November 12 2015 05:15 AlterKot wrote:
So anyone wanna feed me some quick OPs? I'm only on Graves hypetrain so far.
Basically all the old OP's are still OP (think Fiora, GP, sometimes Kindred) plus maybe a few weaker bruisers like Garen?
I'm personally not yet sold on the Graves hypetrain, because when someone is bad on him the champion immediately becomes really bad. Also pretty easily killable if you have a good team for it.
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fuck me dude, i hate having to learn about new items and masteries and shit. can't wait until i can just copy what all the pros use so i dont have to think about this new shit.
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You can't buy health pots if you have a flask. The fuck is this.
I also get massive lag (I went it, froze for ~20 seconds, rest of the computer was fine, and I had LoL's sound, but the screen was frozen in place), and pathing seems worse.
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On November 12 2015 06:10 Alaric wrote:
You can't buy health pots if you have a flask. The fuck is this.
It's called strategic diversity.
Currently for me in soloq it's just a question of who has less people who got boosted to diamond on his/her team.
In the last 4 games I won the first two because our team had one less boosted player then I lost the last two because our team had more boosted players.
I never knew the market for boosted players was this big lol, it's pretty funny actually, especially because now the real owners just start playing again.
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On November 12 2015 06:10 Alaric wrote:
You can't buy health pots if you have a flask. The fuck is this.
Your only allowed one set of potions if I recall. Kind of like the gp items.
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That was the whole point of the potion change if you'd read the context. They were trying in general to reduce in-lane sustain, particularly tops iirc.
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mercury treads 20% tenacity feel so shit now, imo they got overnerfed
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Alright, Garen with all of the new increased HP regen masteries is kinda crazy in lane, especially with all the reduced lane sustain.
I feel like new BC is also better than old BC on him, because he never had trouble getting tanky and the extra AD is pretty nice.
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Yeah, but the basic flask is shit. In the jungle, I'd rather start machete+pots than machete+flask.
Also, you can't use a flask charge for mana if you're full HP.
On paper I feel like Flask and its buffs are really bad. Anyone tested them some yet?
I really feel like it takes to long for them to be worth it. And considering I mostly played Maokai and Irelia, I used to buy 1-2 mana pots every back to sustain my aggressive style (and their low mana pools). Flask clearly wouldn't be enough for Maokai I feel.
I played Vi an went Warrior into BC, I felt weak as shit against marksmen because they have so much more crit (and the keystone mastery healing them on every crit is some dumb shit that's gonna give people much more sustain post-crit component than flask gave; also edge cases such as Yasuo and Tryndamere) and BC has 100 less HP, so at that point I feel a lot less tanky.
Also no flat ArPen means less champion damage, I'm not a fan of that Warrior enchant change.
Also WTF DID THEY DO TO THE PATHING
I missed so many cs in lane because I'd go around minions. In my last game I was literally bodyblocked by a wave of minions. They fanned out to hit a tower (around 8-9 of them), and I was there sitting behind two of them, not moving at all. It lasted around 3-4 seconds. Then I started moving near another minion, got stuck again 1-2 seconds.
So, freezes, lags galore for other people, and much worsened pathing. Yay.
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This game feels so weird now haha, Im just randomly putting points into masteries at this point
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how do i sustain with new flasks they do almost nothing in lane lol
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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They could've gone two ways with crit. Removing it for a different stat or removing weird low-crit edge cases and giving people a lot more of it more quickly. I think this way it'll end up more interesting. It's just a matter of how OP ADCs are, if at all. Maybe they're not and it just looks better than it is.
The sustain thing wasn't a general 'we want sustain to be worse.' It was targeted at flask buyers. With that being said, that crit mastery is not going to last at 10%, let alone 15.
@below: She can't be any worse than before; just about everything was a buff. And man did she need it because old MF sucked a fat one.
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Just me or does MF seem pretty mediocre? I liked her a lot before but don't know now.
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Crit is absolutely critical (SEE WHAT I DID THERE? + Show Spoiler +) now that they have nerfed armor pen hard.
Supertanks will be able to emerge once again I think because armor isseems more effective and mr items have been buffed.
At the moment I'm entertaining a fast cooldown Q/E Ezreal build which has around 1s CD on Q and around 4s or a bit less on E if you hit 2Q's. It's less if you take the 45%CDR mastery.
Also, while Ferocity seems nice it's not necessarily the best option for damage dealers, since they've given alot of adc's such a niche role.
I've got a duel setup which goes 18/12/0 with Fury, Vampirism, Warlord's bloodlust, a more poke oriented one which goes Sorcery, Natural Talent, Deathfire touch (items are Manamune, BT/Botrk, Lord Dominik's Regards, Trinity, Essence Reaver and Zerkers (change those for PD if you have the money) and a more kiting, pussyass, poketickle build which goes 0/18/12 ( (items are Manamune, Botrk, Lord Dominik's Regards, Iceborn Gauntlet, Essence Reaver, Ionian Boots).
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They nerfed armour (both gold per point, and point per slot) and changed itemisation to force people to stack health instead and put a lot of %HP damage in kits and made a brand new Last Whisper which gives you % damage increase against people building health.
ArPen changes are only impactful against squishies building no armour and it won't change much for AD carries because they get so much more from crit (amongst other stuff) (while crit items suck on assassins now, see new ghostblade).
You're getting ~15% damage increase against anything with over 3k HP, to make up for not shredding their "up to 80 armour" by 35%, and you crit more often because they made that shit ridiculously easy to buy and stack.
That's no nerf versus tanks at all.
Then of course you have retarded-ass dumb design like the crit healing mastery, or essence reaver.
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Any tips on how to build jungle Eve now/what masteries to take
I'm so lost help me
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On paper the vision/support item changes actually seem pretty cool. Vision was always the optimal way to funnel your disposable gold income and they tried to fix that by adding free gold but making vision not near-infinite is probably a better way to fix that problem.
The tradeoff of support item slot efficiency vs gold efficiency also seems pretty neat, except that I suspect the numbers aren't tuned correctly
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 12 2015 08:17 MajorityofOne wrote:
Any tips on how to build jungle Eve now/what masteries to take
I'm so lost help me
I want to know this too
Blackfire torch mastery seems good on her since she has high AD/AP stats from her builds and runes but Thunderlords's Decree seems appealing for more AOE as well
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This season is terrible news for those of us who do nothing but ward
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On November 12 2015 09:16 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 08:17 MajorityofOne wrote:
Any tips on how to build jungle Eve now/what masteries to take
I'm so lost help me
I want to know this too Blackfire torch mastery seems good on her since she has high AD/AP stats from her builds and runes but Thunderlords's Decree seems appealing for more AOE as well
First couple games ive gone 18-6-6 with blackfire torch, runic affinity, and explorer. The jungle monsters have absolutely kicked my ass so I think ill switch explorer for tough skin, or maybe go for merciless in cunning.
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12/18 seems a lot better than 18/12 in general unless you're making big use of one of the Ferocity keystones.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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Just played a game with the new Corki and I literally got a triple kill with the new W alone. It is basically a rumble equalizer and at the end of the game I did 80% magic damage and 20% physical. I think this new Corki would be ideal for mid lane as this version is better than old AP corki and bot lane if a team is AD heavy and needs some magic dealers
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How does Corki's new passive interact with towers?
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On November 12 2015 10:17 TheHumanSensation wrote:
How does Corki's new passive interact with towers?
From the wiki it seems like it should effect towers as any bonus damage would.
Other things that are interesting. It splits all bonus damage into half magic/physical, so triforce procs are now half/half. As well, damage split in this manner still lifesteals.
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Yeah from the patch notes it says
'Basic attacks against turrets deal damage equal to base attack damage + either 1.0 bonus attack damage or 0.4 ability power ⇒ 0.5 ability power, whichever is higher'
You do mixed damage to tower and its pretty equal mix of physical and magic damage, overall its the same amount of turret damage as if you went full AD or AP corki
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Anyone get their Victorious Sivir yet?
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Ranked rewards havent been distributed yet I dont think, the skin and borders
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Corrupting potion seems like the best starting item on all AD bruiser tops, outshining Dorans by a lot
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On November 12 2015 08:44 Zess wrote:
On paper the vision/support item changes actually seem pretty cool. Vision was always the optimal way to funnel your disposable gold income and they tried to fix that by adding free gold but making vision not near-infinite is probably a better way to fix that problem.
The tradeoff of support item slot efficiency vs gold efficiency also seems pretty neat, except that I suspect the numbers aren't tuned correctly
From the previous seasons, and the way they handled things by shoving gold at the supports without looking at any of their items (with a few exceptions), it's really hard to take Riot seriously whenever matters of slot-efficiency are involved. Usually they just buff an item and make it more expensive till slot-efficient (exception: when they want to nerf an item, see examples with armour itemisation for the last... 6-7 months?).
They say brutaliser's too good because of its stat mix, but both its replacements have much lower gold efficiency too.
Glacial Shroud hasn't been in a state of "I'd rather buy this before the other component / I have the other component, and I'd rather buy Shroud than wait for the whole item and use the slot for something else" in over a year, so what do we do? We gut it further. Genius plan.
Armour itemisation gets fucked over further, in stats and/or cost, sometimes both. Note how it was influenced by the meta, what with ADs often having trouble dealing with the frontline, often consisting of... juggernauts, these guys with much higher defensive stats (and base AD) than the norm, or champ who actually deal damage/have utility independant from going full tank (hi Tahm Kench). So because these are doing their job too well, you nerf everyone else, including bruisers.
Oh, since we're talking about them. BC takes it in the rear too, with a price increase and reduction of its health. RIP as a second buy for junglers, it not only comes later but leaves you even more squishy.
Triforce gets nerfed too, yay. Better give it more crit for these markmen, uh.
Both Hydras get nerfed ('cause y'know, bruisers, also guys building tanky with no other damage on their kits).
BotRK. That item that allowed some marksmen not to build crit early on top of being used by bruisers. So fuck it.
And mages have all their core items nerfed or at least made more expensive because "they were more gold-effective than AD items."
Well, maybe because AP doesn't scale with dps and auto-attacks nearly as much as AD, and because they don't have that one multiplicative "crit" stat to make them scale way harder for each item bought?
Of course we have stuff like Azir now for the dumb dps-scaling stats, but most of the cast is still defined by either midgame spell-based burst, or utility that is separate from damage (or often AP; shields and Lulu's W do, obviously). Mages are supposed to get cheaper core items and be able to come online faster because apart from cases like Graves and Corki mages have a power peak in the midgame which they are supposed to abuse before they fall off and bow to the marksmen (Azir and assassins are special cases, as LB's closer to an assassin than a "mage").
But nope, fuck all logic and consistency, let's buff marksmen items (losing 15 AD for 10% crit while getting cheaper isn't a nerf), nerf most armour itemisation and a bunch of bruiser items, let's make all AP items more expensive and nerf some of them on top of it.
All at the same time because "hurr durr it's pre-season gotta hit everything while we can test."
Sure, but don't fucking do it in such a lopsided way toward a single one of your fucking character classes, ffs.
User was warned for this post (QQ overload)
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I hate how Kog'Maw feels now. He feels nothing like a cannon, more like a sub-machine gun. Which was already what Jinx felt like before. Ugh.
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Holy shit Rift Herald buff is strong. He packs one hell of a punch too. I'd actually say I'd value Herald over Dragon 1 and 2. Maybe even 3.
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On November 12 2015 14:02 zer0das wrote:
I hate how Kog'Maw feels now. He feels nothing like a cannon, more like a sub-machine gun. Which was already what Jinx felt like before. Ugh.
Ironically I'd call jinx more of a cannon. Lol.
Dem rocket crits.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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so whats the general consensus over new perseverance vs insight (-15% summoner spells cd), i have hard time justifying not taking -15% on my flash and tp
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
So with all these ADC buffs and ADC being OP in preseason, we're gonna watch jugger comps in professional games?
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What keystone do you use on Jayce (top, or even mid)? Ferocity ones are so bad, and while Intelligence from the cunning tree sounds sweet, and you are even better off with Stormraider or Thunderlord than with any of the Ferocity keystones, you can't just give up 7% armor pen on him.
I was afraid that we'd come to this, when certain keystones are ridiculously strong on certain champions (Warlord's, Windspeaker's, Bond of Stone), the rest are more or less just there for cuteness, and champions who can't benefit fully from the op one will be left at a disadvantage. It's especially awkward looking at keystone masteries when you play with a mage.
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On November 12 2015 15:51 739 wrote:
So with all these ADC buffs and ADC being OP in preseason, we're gonna watch jugger comps in professional games?
word on the street is Kog is booty, also Jinx Rockets got nerfed -15% atk speed in rocket form, it's possible but I'm not sure who the AD Will be.
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how is ferocity bad lol,pretty much every single mastery there is useful and good, this tree is busted all 3 final keystones are broken, favor of battle stacking on minions is ridiculous
btw rage blade is silly right now i even saw irelia rush it and smash the game, jax who rushes it doest lose 1v1 to anyone and pushes waves instantly (lol just thought about poppy with it, she always had problem with wave clear rage blade seems like a perfect item for her)
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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One thing I was wondering is if the 15% summoner spell cdr in the masteries stacks with Boots of Lucidity (10%) or distortion enchancement (25% for flash/ghost/tp)? It is unique in the items, but dunno how it works with the masteries or not at all.
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On November 12 2015 16:07 kongoline wrote:
how is ferocity bad lol,pretty much every single mastery there is useful and good, this tree is busted all 3 final keystones are broken, favor of battle stacking on minions is ridiculous
The tree is good for him, obviously. But I was talking about the keystones.
On November 12 2015 16:09 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 16:00 Volband wrote:
What keystone do you use on Jayce (top, or even mid)? Ferocity ones are so bad, and while Intelligence from the cunning tree sounds sweet, and you are even better off with Stormraider or Thunderlord than with any of the Ferocity keystones, you can't just give up 7% armor pen on him.
I was afraid that we'd come to this, when certain keystones are ridiculously strong on certain champions (Warlord's, Windspeaker's, Bond of Stone), the rest are more or less just there for cuteness, and champions who can't benefit fully from the op one will be left at a disadvantage. It's especially awkward looking at keystone masteries when you play with a mage. fervor of battle, deathfire, thunderlord's all seem viable. fervor since it's really easy to get stacks with the transformation. I imagine this will be great for bullying a weak laner. deathfire is pretty straightforward. tons of damage and you have tons of damaging spells. plus jayce gets a decent amount of bonus ad. thunderlord's for the super poke and again, jayce buys a decent amount of bonus ad. deathfire seems like the best one but pretty sure the other 2 has its uses in some scenarios.
Fervor is good in lane, no questions about it, but it falls of super hard on jayce, as you'll be a poker and 100-0-er, so you won't stack anything.
Deathfire is weak. An E-Q combo around lvl5 burnt my opponent for 6 damage per tick. Terrible. Later it was unrecognizeable for the Q poke. I was hoping to see something, ANYTHING with 400+ AD, but nope.
Thunderlord's doesn't make a super poke outside of the laning phase. A Q hit means 1proc out of 3, so you'd have to fire three Qs simultaniously, hit with all of them, and then Thunderlord would be procced.
These are all useless for a Jayce who wants to poke, and I'm yet to meet a Jayce, who doesn't want to do that. They do give a little extra damage for his all-in, but a mid/late game Jayce with muramana done deals crazy single-target damage with his combo, to which the ferocity keystone masteries don't add much.
Now, I believe the fault in your logic is because you view these keystone masteries as free, and anythin that's free should not be complained about. So I see why you might not understand why I complain about Jayce only getting ~50 bonus damage later in the game to his E-Q combo which deals 1 millin damage, when it's free, but then compare it to Warlord's. You have to keep that shit in mind, because that keystone mastery is to be respected. Same goes for Bond of Stone. 8% damage reduction in fights is no laughing matter. Windspeaker's the same, it is huge throughout the whole game.
Meanwhile Jayce can pick a keystone to strengthten his early game, then be literally unusable later on, or pick Deathfire, for that mediocore at best extra damage for his poke.
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United States11390 Posts
On November 12 2015 16:07 kongoline wrote:
how is ferocity bad lol,pretty much every single mastery there is useful and good, this tree is busted all 3 final keystones are broken, favor of battle stacking on minions is ridiculous
btw rage blade is silly right now i even saw irelia rush it and smash the game, jax who rushes it doest lose 1v1 to anyone and pushes waves instantly (lol just thought about poppy with it, she always had problem with wave rage blade seems like a perfect item for her)
it's not just rageblade but the combination of it with fervor mastery and the corrupting potion effect that make it so strong
Man, it just feels so wrong that Vayne doesnt rush bork anymore ie Gosu's shiv -> rapidfire or DLift's IE -> Runaans build.
Also, BT feels pretty worthless with how easily ADC's get sustain now through crit, Mercurial just feels so much better if you do need sustain item.
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Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights.
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they even buffed red pot to have more life steal, adc late game with 100% crit and retarded amount of life steal is so silly
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On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights.
Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown.
The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone.
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the ap keystones look good on paper but they seem pretty lackluster in practice compared to Warlord's.
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On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone.
Assuming lv 18:
For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour.
After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour.
*I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this.
So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values.
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It's going to take a little while, but slowly people are going to learn that what is making Cunning good is not the keystones.
It's that the Precision mastery is overpowered.
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On November 12 2015 17:57 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone. Assuming lv 18: For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour. After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour. *I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this. So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values.
Aah, then 12-18 with the hit'n'run keystone is the way to go for sure, unless you want some super cheesy first blood, from which you are absolutely sure you can snowball your victory.
My heart is at peace. Now it only sucks to be a mage, haha.
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On November 12 2015 18:20 Ketara wrote:
It's going to take a little while, but slowly people are going to learn that what is making Cunning good is not the keystones.
It's that the Precision mastery is overpowered.
On November 12 2015 18:25 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 17:57 TheHumanSensation wrote:On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone. Assuming lv 18: For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour. After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour. *I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this. So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values. Aah, then 12-18 with the hit'n'run keystone is the way to go for sure, unless you want some super cheesy first blood, from which you are absolutely sure you can snowball your victory. My heart is at peace. Now it only sucks to be a mage, haha.
yeah basically I read something ketara said, assumed it was true, and then just double-checked it quickly here before I gave it as advice. Pretty legit! I already have to redo my mastery pages and we're only 1 day in, joy @_@
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Can anyone help me theorycraft the pros and cons of Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's decree. On which champs you would prefer one over the another and/or in which scenarios you would want to do this
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honestly for melee ap I feel like Ferocity tier 3 is too bad to justify the pretty good t4, so I'm going with 6/18/6 with block and Double edge. swapping between hit 'n run and Thunderlord's. Not sure which one I like more. Part of me feels like Thunderlords is going to overkill in most situations where it will help, but with the amount of life steal in the game at the moment I'm scared of running out of damage.
I might try 12/18 with the bounty hunter stuff but I think block gets you a lot of cs in the pre-first buy phase, it's a talent you've always been able to spec and I feel like I'll be naked without it, I might be being a pussy though.
(talking Kass/Fizz mainly, I think AD assassins probably prefer Warlord/Furvor)
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Actually I kind of got it myself now when I read them more carefully - Thunderword will be better on burst champs and Deathfire on pure pokers like ziggs, ezreal, urgot or pokers that can finish you with burst like lux/syndra, perhaps jayce
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You guys are welcome to look at the Lux thread and then apply my gigantic word salad to other champions.
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On November 12 2015 18:45 Slusher wrote:
honestly for melee ap I feel like Ferocity tier 3 is too bad to justify the pretty good t4, so I'm going with 6/18/6 with block and Double edge.
is tought skin worth sacrificing 2% ls/spell vamp and 2.5% dmg increase ?
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On November 12 2015 18:40 M2 wrote:
Can anyone help me theorycraft the pros and cons of Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's decree. On which champs you would prefer one over the another and/or in which scenarios you would want to do this
DFT is better against champions you'll be constantly scrapping with. Decree is better against champions late game when you'll have less interaction with them.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
If ranked borders are being distributed till 17th, is there any reason to play rankeds?
+ Show Spoiler +
HF dealing with Illaoi on lane, LOL.
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On November 12 2015 23:24 739 wrote:If ranked borders are being distributed till 17th, is there any reason to play rankeds? + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_d0HLhNuCY HF dealing with Illaoi on lane, LOL.
looks like the tentacles can be killed in 2 hits and their attack speed is adequately low, so although she will be pretty annoying obviously, especially when she makes you a vessel, there is counterlplay. But again it looks pretty obnoxious, everytime she hits her E, it means that you are zoned hardcore for I don't knot how much time, you can't neither farm, nor trade, nor harass, there is not even a safe place where you can hide xD
p.s I guess you have to avoid this skill shot more than kog maw a blitz hook xD
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holy shit tryndamere , wtf riot hahahaha
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I've heard trynda is supposed to be strong, what's so different?
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I guess the new mastery that heals on crits? Same with Yasuo.
According to red post this one is being looked at for nerf.
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yeaahh trynd goes in lane start hitting minions and the moment he fills his critical bar he is like perma full health, no one can even think of trading
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On November 12 2015 19:53 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 18:45 Slusher wrote:
honestly for melee ap I feel like Ferocity tier 3 is too bad to justify the pretty good t4, so I'm going with 6/18/6 with block and Double edge. is tought skin worth sacrificing 2% ls/spell vamp and 2.5% dmg increase ?
so far I think yes, spellvamp is just garbage so I don't care about that, as for the damage increase it's def better than what I'm getting from Resolve, but levels 1-5, my weakest state on these champions I think I'm getting myself a lot of cs I wouldn't?
I'm not sure it's better but my mindset is if I can get 10 cs I wasn't going to get early game becasue of my increased sustain it's more of a difference than 2.5% damage later when I can probably kill them with or without it. Keep in mind I'm talking about 2 of the worst pre 6 laning champions in the game specifically (actually I think Kass is fine pre 6 these days but you get the point)
I'm certianly willing to change my mind but I was happy with the results so far so I've delayed trying 12/18
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guinsoo + fervor seems silly right now
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brand with deathfire touch hits one spell burns me to half hp xDD
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what is the deal with Guinsso + corrupted potion? I heard they interacted in an op way and I had an 0-? jax go legendary as soon as he completed the combo.
but just looking at the text I'm not sure if I get it.
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I am having so much fun with cass right now. The wanderer mastery, with q passive, ludens, and furor boots. 517+ ms in combat. Its hilarious. Not sure if this is worth over deathfire touch.... Help?
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 13 2015 04:44 Slusher wrote:
what is the deal with Guinsso + corrupted potion? I heard they interacted in an op way and I had an 0-? jax go legendary as soon as he completed the combo.
but just looking at the text I'm not sure if I get it.
i think its just free attack speed + the crazy on hits
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On November 13 2015 03:49 Redox wrote:
I guess the new mastery that heals on crits? Same with Yasuo.
According to red post this one is being looked at for nerf.
I have no idea why it even got to live...
It was pretty obviously bat shit broken to anyone who played with it for 30 seconds on pbe. Lol. Just silly stuff, imo.
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Brand would do that even without the burn, Rylai's+Liandry's on people who haven't completed a big ticket MR item (since Cowl is nerfed, even if the final items have more MR) hurts. A QW combo is actually a good way to stop Flash-less juggernauts to run at you.
Bond of Stone takes about over 4200 HP (total) to beat the HP stacking mastery. In reality it's probably less because of the prevalence of %HP damage, even if you account for Veteran's Scars' 4% more HP.
Of course you don't have the ally protection then. I'm not sure how it works though:
- it can only affect one ally at a time. The closest one? The lowest HP one?
- damage sharing can't reduce you below 15% HP. Does that mean you and an ally still benefit from the damage reduction, but you don't receive their share if you're low enough, or they lose the reduction if you're too low to share?
- is the damage reduced by 8% before any reductions, then these 8% are dealt as flat damage from whatever type it originally is to you, with your resistances kicking in? Or does your ally take 8% less damage post-resistances/reductions, and this amount is dealt as flat true damage to you?
- how does it interact with true damage? It shouldn't be reduced for your ally, but do you still take 8% of whatever they suffered (it's shared, but it's true damage so it can't be reduced) or is the damage not shared (because it can't be reduced, you take nothing)?
There are an awful lot of details that they left out about these, it doesn't help us solve them. :/
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 13 2015 05:27 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 05:25 iCanada wrote:On November 13 2015 03:49 Redox wrote:
I guess the new mastery that heals on crits? Same with Yasuo.
According to red post this one is being looked at for nerf. I have no idea why it even got to live... It was pretty obviously bat shit broken to anyone who played with it for 30 seconds on pbe. Lol. Just silly stuff, imo. seriously when you no longer have to choose mivs damage (crits) or survivability (lifesteal/sustain) thats just lol
No no, you build more damage AND get more survivability. Balance.
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On November 13 2015 05:17 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 04:44 Slusher wrote:
what is the deal with Guinsso + corrupted potion? I heard they interacted in an op way and I had an 0-? jax go legendary as soon as he completed the combo.
but just looking at the text I'm not sure if I get it. i think its just free attack speed + the crazy on hits
It really is. The potion is just cheap good on-hits. Its really "not part of the combo" where the combo is "rageblade"
Rageblade grants +64% attack speed, 54 AD, 72 AP, and +30 damage/Hit attainable after 4 auto attacks for 2500 gold.
Rageblade is gold efficient at 2 stacks[1 melee auto attack], and has about 6000 gold worth of stats when fully stacked.
Frankly i don't see why you don't build it on everyone. Nothing grants so much AD and AS for so little.
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cowsep rushed it on yi and ICU builds it on irelia so ye item is pretty bonkers
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Can confirm, built on pantheon, melted faces.
Then died to 2.4 as w/ 380 ad, 100% crit and 60% lifesteal adc. This patch in a nutshell. Lol.
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Man. Good thing Legacy and Fallout 4 came out right when Riot decided to release the most ridiculous patch ever
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On November 13 2015 06:51 MattBarry wrote:
Man. Good thing Legacy and Fallout 4 came out right when Riot decided to release the most ridiculous patch ever
I've just been playing LotV the past couple of days, I should probably see what the new League patch is like though. The League subreddit looks hilarious, just full of Riot mistakes 
+ Show Spoiler +
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 13 2015 06:58 krndandaman wrote:
eh for the most part I like this patch though. definitely things that can be fixed/adjusted but those are easy fixes.
i really wish they'd just tune down the crit shit a bit though but i'm pretty satisfied overall.
i like the quicker games :x
I've really just run out of patience for the vast sweeping changes Riot has been doing since the AP itemization overhaul. I'll just chill for a bit and let the game settle
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On November 12 2015 15:11 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 14:02 zer0das wrote:
I hate how Kog'Maw feels now. He feels nothing like a cannon, more like a sub-machine gun. Which was already what Jinx felt like before. Ugh. Ironically I'd call jinx more of a cannon. Lol. Dem rocket crits.
It's not about the strength of the attacks, it's about the feel. Kog is slow and immobile, so you have to wheel into place then fire. Or use your alternate motar mode. But that's just gone now. I think between this, MF's alternate W, and Ashe they've managed to ruin the feel of 2.5 ADCs I really enjoyed now (I enjoy new Ashe from time to time, it just feels nothing like the old one, which I preferred).
On November 12 2015 16:03 Slusher wrote:word on the street is Kog is booty, also Jinx Rockets got nerfed -15% atk speed in rocket form, it's possible but I'm not sure who the AD Will be.
I'm assuming you mean the bad booty. Because I tried him in ARAM and it felt like I did no damage. The W hamstringing all of your damage is such a huge penalty, and the scaling on the percent component is trash. And his ult does like no poke damage against people that are near full health. Like good lawd, it's like a pea shooter. If you have to move even a tiny bit, his W feels awful too.
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On November 13 2015 06:53 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 06:51 MattBarry wrote:
Man. Good thing Legacy and Fallout 4 came out right when Riot decided to release the most ridiculous patch ever I've just been playing LotV the past couple of days, I should probably see what the new League patch is like though. The League subreddit looks hilarious, just full of Riot mistakes + Show Spoiler +
Tbh there really aren't that many problems. The biggest one is the warlord's bloodlust. Even with some champions that are just broken like mf/yasuo/trynd/graves/gp(for fucking months now)/etc it isn't that bad. Most of those champs are broken because of it.
Also champions are getting stuck a lot inbetween creeps/champs/etc. Got stuck between a ward and the wall earlier.
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Well that and rageblade. I solo'd a fed Akali without a pink ward as a behind Teemo with Rageblade, and Locket. I just blinded and auto attacked and won because i had rageblade.
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Yea it looks really strong but I have seen only 2 and both were on jax who did retarded dmg so can't complain about it too much. At least yet.
This reminds me of back in s1 when I started. Just pick jax get rageblade+gunblade and kill everyone.
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I agree that it isn't as much of a clown show as it appears. Just a few of these really make the rest look bad. I like most of the changes.
But that warlords mastery is silly. Like take the heal right off it I still think it's strong. But the Heal is ridiculously broken. I don't really know why they havn't seen that yet. I get that they want to make the masteries feel strong, but 1 mastery totally eliminating any need to build defense on carries is silly. No other words to use. Just silly.
And the new items need major tuning. But that is to be expected. Crazy amounts of change in one patch.
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ok kayle is pants on head retarded
duoing with unseen and this is just... I don't even know
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On November 13 2015 08:54 Gahlo wrote:Just put the heal on a CD, problem solved. e. The proposed hotfix.
It needs a higher CD than that...
This just means Tryndamere can't all in level 2, he needs to trade twice first and do it at level 3, having crit runes and crit twice, winning both trades massively.
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It should be a 'crit' of your current lifesteal. So crit can't be bought in place of it
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so i've messed around a good deal with the refillable potion for jungling today.
my conclusion has been that if you start with it, you gimp your first clear really hard because you only get 2 pots with less regen than normal ones. 150g gets you 3 normal pots that heal much more. if you go for the upgraded one, you delay buying your smite item. i feel that at least for the main junglers i play right now which are mostly vi and hecarim; once you have the smite item you no longer have a reliance on pots for sustain
additionally, hunter's talisman just feels worse than machete. the mana regen it does provide isn't noticeable, and you lose the 20 damage per hit from machete
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Yup same conclusion - Getting refillable potion on start fucks your first clear hard. 2 100 hp pots vs 3 150 pots - no brainer. Three pots allow for worse case scenario too - when you receive zero leash due to early skirmishes or yeah-fuck-bot-lane-im-not-ganking-there-ever. Im still feeling out the weird smite timings tho. I actually dont feel like smiting the krugs anymore if I get a decent leash, and just start red and smite that instead, but the frog's passive is still decent plus I dont really need to smite blue -_- (If decent leash I just smite the wolves instead)
Unless you mess up super hard before first back you should always be able to get the first upgrade at least - and then you dont really need pots anymore after that. Ive only gotten the hunters potion for select champs who have a hard time sustaining MANA between ganks and clears, and I only got that after the third or forth back
For hunter's talisman start - yeah its straight up worse. How is it even a recommended item for elise I will never know, as elise starts with AS steroid -_-
Tested on Rengar, Elise, and Khazix.
On the other hand Khazix is fucking broken. I hit level 6 or 7, evolved my Q, went to gank bot lane cait + lux, and each of my isolated Q did close to half max hp with the new warriors 60ad. I havent even bought the armor pen quints yet
For masteries - 12/18 just feels so much better with stormraiders. Ganks just feel so much better and the extra AD from all the items makes up for any loss of damage by not going 18/12.
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On November 13 2015 12:41 padfoota wrote:
Yup same conclusion - Getting refillable potion on start fucks your first clear hard. 2 100 hp pots vs 3 150 pots - no brainer. Three pots allow for worse case scenario too - when you receive zero leash due to early skirmishes or yeah-fuck-bot-lane-im-not-ganking-there-ever. Im still feeling out the weird smite timings tho. I actually dont feel like smiting the krugs anymore if I get a decent leash, and just start red and smite that instead, but the frog's passive is still decent plus I dont really need to smite blue -_- (If decent leash I just smite the wolves instead)
Unless you mess up super hard before first back you should always be able to get the first upgrade at least - and then you dont really need pots anymore after that. Ive only gotten the hunters potion for select champs who have a hard time sustaining MANA between ganks and clears, and I only got that after the third or forth back
For hunter's talisman start - yeah its straight up worse. How is it even a recommended item for elise I will never know, as elise starts with AS steroid -_-
Tested on Rengar, Elise, and Khazix.
On the other hand Khazix is fucking broken. I hit level 6 or 7, evolved my Q, went to gank bot lane cait + lux, and each of my isolated Q did close to half max hp with the new warriors 60ad. I havent even bought the armor pen quints yet
For masteries - 12/18 just feels so much better with stormraiders. Ganks just feel so much better and the extra AD from all the items makes up for any loss of damage by not going 18/12.
Yeah, Fervor is really nice for farmers because it does stupid damage on camps for the ults fast clear but Decree is tops for gank damage.
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It feels like in theory this patch should be amazing for TF. Lich bane buffed, abyssal buffed, new masteries are great, but I've had several rather dumb instances of just being two shot in the early/midgame by adc's who aren't even fed...
Also the fact everyone is rushing scimitar now kind of sucks :<
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On November 13 2015 11:45 Frolossus wrote:
so i've messed around a good deal with the refillable potion for jungling today.
my conclusion has been that if you start with it, you gimp your first clear really hard because you only get 2 pots with less regen than normal ones. 150g gets you 3 normal pots that heal much more. if you go for the upgraded one, you delay buying your smite item. i feel that at least for the main junglers i play right now which are mostly vi and hecarim; once you have the smite item you no longer have a reliance on pots for sustain
additionally, hunter's talisman just feels worse than machete. the mana regen it does provide isn't noticeable, and you lose the 20 damage per hit from machete
What masteries you use for Vi/Hecarim btw? And which machete upgrades/build do you prefer?
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On November 13 2015 08:06 nafta wrote:
Yea it looks really strong but I have seen only 2 and both were on jax who did retarded dmg so can't complain about it too much. At least yet.
This reminds me of back in s1 when I started. Just pick jax get rageblade+gunblade and kill everyone.
jax does retarded damage in general cuz of fervor of battle, he outrades champions he couldnt even touch earlier before lvl6
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I suggest the ADCs role to be renamed to ADGs - Attack Damage Gods and Marksmen can go something like Marksgods or Godsmen
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On November 13 2015 13:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 12:41 padfoota wrote:
Yup same conclusion - Getting refillable potion on start fucks your first clear hard. 2 100 hp pots vs 3 150 pots - no brainer. Three pots allow for worse case scenario too - when you receive zero leash due to early skirmishes or yeah-fuck-bot-lane-im-not-ganking-there-ever. Im still feeling out the weird smite timings tho. I actually dont feel like smiting the krugs anymore if I get a decent leash, and just start red and smite that instead, but the frog's passive is still decent plus I dont really need to smite blue -_- (If decent leash I just smite the wolves instead)
Unless you mess up super hard before first back you should always be able to get the first upgrade at least - and then you dont really need pots anymore after that. Ive only gotten the hunters potion for select champs who have a hard time sustaining MANA between ganks and clears, and I only got that after the third or forth back
For hunter's talisman start - yeah its straight up worse. How is it even a recommended item for elise I will never know, as elise starts with AS steroid -_-
Tested on Rengar, Elise, and Khazix.
On the other hand Khazix is fucking broken. I hit level 6 or 7, evolved my Q, went to gank bot lane cait + lux, and each of my isolated Q did close to half max hp with the new warriors 60ad. I havent even bought the armor pen quints yet
For masteries - 12/18 just feels so much better with stormraiders. Ganks just feel so much better and the extra AD from all the items makes up for any loss of damage by not going 18/12. Yeah, Fervor is really nice for farmers because it does stupid damage on camps for the ults fast clear but Decree is tops for gank damage.
Tooltip of fervor of battle says it only deals damage to champions. How is it doing stupid damage to camps?
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Warlords is actually the only keystone that affects minions. At least according to tooltips.
Not sure how Riot missed that one
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United States11390 Posts
On November 13 2015 08:06 nafta wrote:
Yea it looks really strong but I have seen only 2 and both were on jax who did retarded dmg so can't complain about it too much. At least yet.
This reminds me of back in s1 when I started. Just pick jax get rageblade+gunblade and kill everyone.
Just wait till it starts catch on more, it makes so many champions batshit insane when they get it. For example, this dude has been spamming top nidalee with it.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=skt smeb
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On November 13 2015 18:06 Ketara wrote:Warlords is actually the only keystone that affects minions. At least according to tooltips. Not sure how Riot missed that one
Fervor for Battle does too.
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On November 13 2015 12:41 padfoota wrote:
On the other hand Khazix is fucking broken. I hit level 6 or 7, evolved my Q, went to gank bot lane cait + lux, and each of my isolated Q did close to half max hp with the new warriors 60ad. I havent even bought the armor pen quints yet
Are you sure the 15 bonus AD (which amounts to 39 damage on isolated Q) beats applying 10 ArPen to the 350+ damage enhanced isolated Q does by itself?
After some quick math (assuming 10 AD from runes so 70 bonus AD with the new Warrior, 7% ArPen, level 3 Q, and 50 armour on the target) it appears to do slightly more, but my stats favour bonus AD slightly, and since the ArPen gets better with additional points in Q and more AD, on top of benefitting his autoattacks.
So, yeah, I'd still call that a nerf, as the price increase means you won't get it earlier than before either.
Hunter's potion feels like a trap indeed. How about the mana sustain for mages with the new doran's ring and flask? I assume top people don't dump 500 into the flask because they want their rageblade or whatever asap. Feels like going double dring into catalyst as Maokai will be much much weaker for trading and playing aggressively.
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On November 13 2015 18:24 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 18:06 Ketara wrote:Warlords is actually the only keystone that affects minions. At least according to tooltips. Not sure how Riot missed that one Fervor for Battle does too.
Are you sure about that? It's not supposed to, by the wording.
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On November 13 2015 18:28 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 12:41 padfoota wrote:
On the other hand Khazix is fucking broken. I hit level 6 or 7, evolved my Q, went to gank bot lane cait + lux, and each of my isolated Q did close to half max hp with the new warriors 60ad. I havent even bought the armor pen quints yet Are you sure the 15 bonus AD (which amounts to 39 damage on isolated Q) beats applying 10 ArPen to the 350+ damage enhanced isolated Q does by itself? After some quick math (assuming 10 AD from runes so 70 bonus AD with the new Warrior, 7% ArPen, level 3 Q, and 50 armour on the target) it appears to do slightly more, but my stats favour bonus AD slightly, and since the ArPen gets better with additional points in Q and more AD, on top of benefitting his autoattacks. So, yeah, I'd still call that a nerf, as the price increase means you won't get it earlier than before either. Hunter's potion feels like a trap indeed. How about the mana sustain for mages with the new doran's ring and flask? I assume top people don't dump 500 into the flask because they want their rageblade or whatever asap. Feels like going double dring into catalyst as Maokai will be much much weaker for trading and playing aggressively.
Kha should be going 18 in cunning, which doesn't have access to 7% amorpen.
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On November 13 2015 18:31 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 18:24 Gahlo wrote:On November 13 2015 18:06 Ketara wrote:Warlords is actually the only keystone that affects minions. At least according to tooltips. Not sure how Riot missed that one Fervor for Battle does too. Are you sure about that? It's not supposed to, by the wording.
I just tried in a custom, fervor wasn't doing extra damage to camps.
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Saw a kayle with Guinsoo last night. Gosh.
On that note the most noticeable difference in this preseason is that I don't know automatically what to build, or what the significance of what the other team are building is.
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On November 13 2015 18:56 Osmoses wrote:
Saw a kayle with Guinsoo last night. Gosh.
On that note the most noticeable difference in this preseason is that I don't know automatically what to build, or what the significance of what the other team are building is.
Yeah I am a bit lost on the builds as well, struggling to find out optimal items relatively to timings. This is on one side, on the other is like yeah build whatever makes you happy, play your cute little games with the junglers and other laners, enjoy it while it lasts, because sooner or later the bot lane demigods will come and wipe everything out xD hahaha
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im sill not sure whats optimal build on olaf now, saw some high elo olaf mains switch from BC(less hp and \higher cost hurt it a lot) to trinity and after playing few games myself i like it (especially the sapphire start with 3 pots i copied from one guy) the fact u get mana and early sheen for cdr is nice but not sure if its actually better than BC
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United States11390 Posts
Man, Vayne is so much fun atm. It's like I'm falling in love with her all over again. ~_~
Shiv rapidfirecannon IE feels really nice. Then, you can just build situationally after depending on game ie if you need death's dance, LDR, mercurial, PD, bork etc.
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Ionian/Disortipn/Insight is so silly. "Any Lane Annie" is going to be my new main.
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On November 13 2015 15:24 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 11:45 Frolossus wrote:
so i've messed around a good deal with the refillable potion for jungling today.
my conclusion has been that if you start with it, you gimp your first clear really hard because you only get 2 pots with less regen than normal ones. 150g gets you 3 normal pots that heal much more. if you go for the upgraded one, you delay buying your smite item. i feel that at least for the main junglers i play right now which are mostly vi and hecarim; once you have the smite item you no longer have a reliance on pots for sustain
additionally, hunter's talisman just feels worse than machete. the mana regen it does provide isn't noticeable, and you lose the 20 damage per hit from machete What masteries you use for Vi/Hecarim btw? And which machete upgrades/build do you prefer?
i haven't found a keystone that really stands out for either of them yet.
+ Show Spoiler +
chilling smite->warrior
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whenever i check hec masteries on op.gg in korea they use fervor of battle(same with renektons and rivens) this keystone is as busted as warlord imo, especially in lane where u can easily get 10 stacks then trade with extra dmg which is often 30%+ of your total ad lol
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Mhm same here, I have Fervor of Battle on Hecarim and Vi both. Any changes on runes or standard for AD jungle?
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from what i have seen they always have arm pen marks and ms quints rest varies but usualyl flat armor yellows and mr/cdr blues
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On November 14 2015 00:16 739 wrote:
Mhm same here, I have Fervor of Battle on Hecarim and Vi both. Any changes on runes or standard for AD jungle?
have you tried the move speed on damage keystone? it sounds nice but i'd have to give up the 7% arpen from the offense tree to do it
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On November 14 2015 00:35 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 00:16 739 wrote:
Mhm same here, I have Fervor of Battle on Hecarim and Vi both. Any changes on runes or standard for AD jungle? have you tried the move speed on damage keystone? it sounds nice but i'd have to give up the 7% arpen from the offense tree to do it
Sometimes I wonder why I say things in GD.
On topic, for Vi I'd probably at first guess go 12/0/18 and take hand of the free BotRK overpowered bullshit I don't remember what the name is off the top of my head.
Really not sure why you'd get fervor of battle on a Vi she really doesn't aa enough in a teamfight for it to be high value.
Hecarim I dont know I've literally never played him.
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Is it an auto based jungler? If so, Fervor. If not, Decree.
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Thunderlords decree would be the other way to go on Vi.
It depends on what you're gonna buy. If you're gonna buy damage go Thunderlords, if you're gonna buy HP go 12/0/18 with hand o' bullshit.
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On Pantheon Lane Decree or Deathfire? Deathfire looks more useful but not sure
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why wouldn't you get warlords to work with his E?
oh my bad I thought deathfire touch only scaled with AP
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On November 14 2015 01:13 Nos- wrote:
why wouldn't you get warlords to work with his E?
oh my bad I thought deathfire touch only scaled with AP
Isnt it E like one spell only? and I am not sure I can stack warlords with panth so free anyway, so I thought trowing spears will work good with deathfire
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On November 14 2015 01:17 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 01:13 Nos- wrote:
why wouldn't you get warlords to work with his E?
oh my bad I thought deathfire touch only scaled with AP Isnt it E like one spell only? and I am not sure I can stack warlords with panth so free anyway, so I thought trowing spears will work good with deathfire
I think you mistake Warlords with Fervor.
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I meant the E passive. You can crit minions with it and it procs warlord's heal in lane.
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On November 14 2015 01:25 Nos- wrote:
I meant the E passive. You can crit minions with it and it procs warlord's heal in lane.
oh yeah as 739 said I confused it with Fervor, but still I am not building critical on panth, which doesnt mean its not good only with E, don't confuse me anymore please haha, I can't even decide between Deathfire and Decree for now xD
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Decree or possibly the movement speed boost. You're much better early so 18 Cunning wins heavily over 18 Ferocity. In general 18 Cunning is going to win unless you're an ADC, have dots, or some other niche scenarios.
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can you elaborate a bit more why cunning wins over ferocity for pantheon, I am not sure I get it, since, in ferocity there are a lot of flat stats, which means good early
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You're either going 12/18 or 18/12. 18/12 gets you Deathfire and 7% ArPen. 12/18 gets you 3+.3 flatpen which is gonna be more damage on your preferred targets through pretty much the whole game.
Decree's more burst but I'd probably prefer the movespeed anyway to get the fuck out or chase more, preference/game based.
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are people going 12-18 or 18-12 on jax?
Fervor looks decent, but the hybrid flat pen in cunning looks insane, and way better then the %pen in ferocity. And thunderlords decree is hardly bad either.
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On November 14 2015 03:03 kongoline wrote:
fervor is broken on jax
But so is dual flat penetration
hmm, i guess it does synergise really well with guinsoos though
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u need to do the math but i doubt -4mr is going to outperform +30AD u get from fervor early game (u get -7% arm pen from ferocity so armor pen from precision isnt such a big deal)
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On November 14 2015 03:08 killerdog wrote:But so is dual flat penetration hmm, i guess it does synergise really well with guinsoos though
a lot of the jax and irelia player's i've been seeing take fervor and go rageblade + corrupting pot
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Jax and Irelia is pretty op right now, corrupting pot start + fervor makes it impossible to win trades pre 6 and after 6, then you just build trinity/rageblade/botrk/hextech it doesnt matter you stomp and still be tanky
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What main 18th mastery on Garen??
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United States37500 Posts
Probably one of the ones in Resolve tree.
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On November 14 2015 05:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Probably one of the ones in Resolve tree.
yeah but neither looks practically appealing, I guess the one with damage reduction I don't know
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United States37500 Posts
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top
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Too bad Warlord's only procs on AAs, not any spell damage with a crit like Pantheon Q or Garen E
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 14 2015 06:21 krndandaman wrote:
i'm just amazed at the amount of damage every champion does now. if you ever fall behind pretty much nearly everyone can tower dive you including adc's. it's quite scary
pretty sure 1-2 man carry shows just got much stronger. reminds me of s3 kinda.
Yea, except no Ahri or Zed.
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On November 14 2015 00:35 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 00:16 739 wrote:
Mhm same here, I have Fervor of Battle on Hecarim and Vi both. Any changes on runes or standard for AD jungle? have you tried the move speed on damage keystone? it sounds nice but i'd have to give up the 7% arpen from the offense tree to do it
The scaling flat pen in cunning is better than the 7% pen in offense.
On November 14 2015 00:41 Gahlo wrote:
Is it an auto based jungler? If so, Fervor. If not, Decree.
Fervor doesn't affect monsters.
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On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top
is that standard?
I've been running 18/12/0
Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks
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On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks
I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D
Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously.
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On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously.
So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ?
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On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ?
If it does then it's a pretty big oversight.
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On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight.
Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many
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On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks
most top bruisers play with 12 resolve which is great for trading in lane and -15% summoners cd is sick good, assassins usually go for 12 in cunning cuz they dont get much from 4% hp and prefer merciless for better 1shot potential
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On November 14 2015 07:52 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight. Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many
Because the master is when you auto or use an ability. By that wording spin should only give stacks when you start it, and technically, when you stop it if you cut it short.
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On November 14 2015 09:34 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 07:52 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight. Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many Because the master is when you auto or use an ability. By that wording spin should only give stacks when you start it, and technically, when you stop it if you cut it short.
To be fair, Tear has the same wording and Singed poison continuously procs it right now.
I bet no one has ever tried, but my guess is that Garen E prolly procs that continuously too. New troll build, Blue Garen. LOL.
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On November 14 2015 09:45 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 09:34 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:52 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight. Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many Because the master is when you auto or use an ability. By that wording spin should only give stacks when you start it, and technically, when you stop it if you cut it short. To be fair, Tear has the same wording and Singed poison continuously procs it right now. I bet no one has ever tried, but my guess is that Garen E prolly procs that continuously too. New troll build, Blue Garen. LOL.
Tear triggers on spell cast and mana usage. Singed Poison continuously uses mana.
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I'd imagine that for Garen Ferocity is best for laning and resolve is best for teamfights. Just a guess.
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On November 14 2015 09:48 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 09:45 iCanada wrote:On November 14 2015 09:34 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:52 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight. Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many Because the master is when you auto or use an ability. By that wording spin should only give stacks when you start it, and technically, when you stop it if you cut it short. To be fair, Tear has the same wording and Singed poison continuously procs it right now. I bet no one has ever tried, but my guess is that Garen E prolly procs that continuously too. New troll build, Blue Garen. LOL. Tear triggers on spell cast and mana usage. Singed Poison continuously uses mana.
Ah, my mistake.
I was kind of excited to play Blue Garen in a normal though. LOL. Too bad.
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On November 14 2015 09:51 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 09:48 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 09:45 iCanada wrote:On November 14 2015 09:34 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:52 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:49 Gahlo wrote:On November 14 2015 07:43 M2 wrote:On November 14 2015 07:37 Fildun wrote:On November 14 2015 07:27 killerdog wrote:On November 14 2015 05:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
Actually I take it back. Fervor is fine for Garen. 18/0/12 like majority of AD Top is that standard? I've been running 18/12/0 Dangerous game feels so huge, merciless is really good and cookies feels useful. Compared to that the resolve masteries feel pretty meh on non tanks I run 18/0/12 on Garen because all the HP regen buffs are so fun :D Maybe 18/12/0 is better but you're playing Garen, you need the regen obviously. So Fevor actually stacks on Garen? Spin stacks it ? If it does then it's a pretty big oversight. Why so? even if it does, the bonus damage is only on autoattacks and Garen cannot apply too many Because the master is when you auto or use an ability. By that wording spin should only give stacks when you start it, and technically, when you stop it if you cut it short. To be fair, Tear has the same wording and Singed poison continuously procs it right now. I bet no one has ever tried, but my guess is that Garen E prolly procs that continuously too. New troll build, Blue Garen. LOL. Tear triggers on spell cast and mana usage. Singed Poison continuously uses mana. Ah, my mistake. I was kind of excited to play Blue Garen in a normal though. LOL. Too bad.
iirc manaless champs still have a mana stat of zero regardless of how much mana they obtain through items, so a blue build wouldn't do anything via manamune/archangel's.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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I voted for Huni, Svenskeren, Febiven, Niels and Mithy
Both Niels and Mithy has no chance against Rekkles and Yolostar's fans though.
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I feel all-stars is entirely irrelevant. Really dont care who goes.
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No Doublelift and Aphro plz lol that would be so awkward
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On November 14 2015 11:25 MooMooMugi wrote:
No Doublelift and Aphro plz lol that would be so awkward
What's the point of allstars if we can't forcibly reunite the one true pairing?
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whats up with so many people having "bonobo" in their name or clan tag nowadays?
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Hmm hows Xin Zhao with rage blade? Devourers > Rageblade? Does it stack faster?
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Morg has a pretty funny interaction with thunder lords right now with the cd bugged.
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Garen E doesn't stack Fervor more than once, I just take it because it's great for laning and I'm trying out splitpushing a lot.
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man fuck ryze, riot cant do nothing right the perma root is most bullshit mechanic i have ever seen
User was warned for this post (QQ Post)
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Well that might be qq but I definitely agree. The fact that as a melee you are simply rooted until you die is the most frustrating thing ever.
I tried Morde today, in this crazed adc patch. Boy did I get my ass handed to me. Jesus.
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On November 14 2015 19:42 Fildun wrote:
Garen E doesn't stack Fervor more than once, I just take it because it's great for laning and I'm trying out splitpushing a lot.
Is it really that good?
All it does is add onhit damage to your autos, no bonus to abilities or anything.
Grasp of the undying looks like it would do decent damage too, and scale way better. And stormraiders, bond of stone and strength of ages all look viable too.
I really want to try fervor lucian though, that looks insane.
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this game feels like s2 again. no more jungle camp tp top bs. laning feels more important now and jax is so strong wtf. no more 2 tanks top on a lonely island but it makes snowballing so much worse when 1 lane is losing hard lol. I remember the reddit threads when people were upset that 1 guy cant carry anymore and snowballing were nerfed in s3 and 4.
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On November 15 2015 02:26 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2015 19:42 Fildun wrote:
Garen E doesn't stack Fervor more than once, I just take it because it's great for laning and I'm trying out splitpushing a lot. Is it really that good? All it does is add onhit damage to your autos, no bonus to abilities or anything. Grasp of the undying looks like it would do decent damage too, and scale way better. And stormraiders, bond of stone and strength of ages all look viable too. I really want to try fervor lucian though, that looks insane.
I think there's a whole bunch of champions who will love grasp of bullshit when this fervor hype dies down.
But I can see Ferocity being good on garen in lane. Not like he needs more Regen in lane.
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Ryze this patch is definitely bonkers. None of his items he builds really got nerfed and RoA got buffed actually. He has few bad matchups and his burst with just tear + catalyst is just insane.
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Played the J4 v Ryze matchup yesterday. Luckily he was bad but I could tell the matchup was awful for J4. Can't poke with Q because once I did it was permasnare city if he locked in the rotation. If I wasn't able to all in he had free farm mode.
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The Ryze rework seemed to make everything bs about ryze so much worse while not actually adding anything to him. Still confused why they went through with it. I guess they made him build more traditional AP items. Cool...
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On November 15 2015 07:05 Numy wrote:
The Ryze rework seemed to make everything bs about ryze so much worse while not actually adding anything to him. Still confused why they went through with it. I guess they made him build more traditional AP items. Cool...
Their plan was to make his Q no longer an easy to use harass tool (success) but they also changed it into possibly the worst skill in the game: a low range, mediocre damage, skillshot. So the rest of his kit needs to be quite good, particularly since he has no dashes.
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Isn't Cait's bug supposed to be fixed from 5.21? I've missed about 15 cs in the first few minutes of a game because minions weren't taking damage when my projectile reached them (never happened with passive-enhanced autos, though). I don't usually play Cait and it's been my first game with her in weeks, but it was so aggravating and visible I couldn't ignore it.
Had a bunch of issues with Net too, but that's mostly from the horrendous performance issues that came with the patch.
I've seen Syndra's corpse cast her ult several times (not her finished the cast, dying, then the orbs fly, but her dying before even starting the animation, and just after, the orbs fly out of nowhere), and Quinn not lose her ult form from me netting her, she goes right through without losing Valor nor being slowed, and Es me in the face.
From everything I've encountered so far it's more likely it's just stuff happening server-side, then for some reason my client shows things happening delayed or in the wrong order. I have absolutely no ping issues but considering all the weird client-side LoL-only delays and freezes, I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm curious as to what could cause it since despite it being a huge patch they haven't mentioned anything in the patch notes apart from helping Mac users load the game faster, and I'm not playing on Mac.
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tending towards AP kog doing more damage than ever before
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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There's basically three things I want in League these days.
1 - Crit removed
2 - Creep block removed
3 - A more complicated draft phase in progames
I hope by the end of season 6 we can get some of these things.
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On November 15 2015 12:16 krndandaman wrote:
the creep/champ block is insane
creep block needs no explanation but today I couldn't move past the bush near wraiths because the braum on my team was in it. it was so troll having my character just stuck there as I try to spam click through.
I saw a Rammus in ball mode get bodyblocked involuntarily by the Sivir on his team. She was just running in lane at ~400 MS and he was at near 600, moving inch by inch behind her instead of pathing around then darting ahead.
Creep (and champion, for the ones with large models) collision size increase+worse pathing does wonky things.
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On November 15 2015 12:16 krndandaman wrote:
the creep/champ block is insane
creep block needs no explanation but today I couldn't move past the bush near wraiths because the braum on my team was in it. it was so troll having my character just stuck there as I try to spam click through.
What you experienced is definitely a real thing, but one small note is that often a lot of pathing/blocking issues are caused by clicking multiple times and the game repathing you with each click, rather than letting the first path complete.
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did Azubu block the vods for Kespa cup finas zZ
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Australia18228 Posts
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About to go in game as rengar vs rammus what do plz send help
I usually go Dueling smite, yomumu, hydra, IE PD
What do
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New Cait feels really strong. After some of the rediculous shit gets nerfed she might become one of the best AD's this season again imo. Her laning is just rediculously oppressive and with everyone dying in 2 secs or less her lower dps compared to some of the other AD's often just doesn't matter.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 15 2015 18:21 Kaethis wrote:
New Cait feels really strong. After some of the rediculous shit gets nerfed she might become one of the best AD's this season again imo. Her laning is just rediculously oppressive and with everyone dying in 2 secs or less her lower dps compared to some of the other AD's often just doesn't matter.
Freeze and Forg1ven, pretty much 2 best Caitlyn players in EU say that she's not that good.
Probs memes though.
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ye and doublelift was saying draven is trash when he was op as fuck
/edit just read some of forgivens responses he doesnt like the new patch in general
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Australia18228 Posts
I think she still has the same problems, bad when behind and godly at 3+ items
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Yeah as said, after some of the rediculous shit gets nerfed. Sustain is too powerfull right now, but I have an inkling that it's one of the first things they're going to hit. When people don't regain half of their health pool in a wave the new traps are actually really strong.
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I personally rate Caitlyn right now as the 4th best ADC in this patch slightly behind:
1. OP graves
2. Lucian with crit and CDR is quite good
3. Vayne more true damage and tons of heals from crit (will be nerfed)
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u also dont get true vision on champions with oracle anymore, have to put pink ward but gl doing that with 6 items
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You know what's really sweet about that is that it puts in an opportunity for them to add more stealth removal to champion abilities.
Who can do that? Corki, TF, Lee Sin and Jinx? Is that it?
Edit: Looking it up, apparently lots of silly champion abilities reveal stealth. Most are conditional to hitting a skillshot on the person who is in stealth or them walking onto a trap though.
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On November 15 2015 19:22 Ketara wrote:
You know what's really sweet about that is that it puts in an opportunity for them to add more stealth removal to champion abilities.
Who can do that? Corki, TF, Lee Sin and Jinx? Is that it?
Jinx can't, don't ask me why, when she came out it would, but they said it was a "bug" and was only meant to give vision not reveal and took it away.
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Yeah the champions with reasonably good stealth removal abilities are Corki, Lee and TF. Lucian W is about as good as Corki's I suppose.
So there's like a dozen stealth champions and only three/four that can reasonably combat a stealth team.
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masteries are so bugged lol
If there are more than two storm raiders on the same team they just dont proc sometimes.
Other than that 12/18 Varus mid so strong. ER-Zeal, rengar runes, 45% cdr. Hits like a goddamn truck starting at 10 minutes and kites so hard with stormraiders. Easy two inhibs by 15 minutes if played right
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Look at stealth vision the same way you do Grievous Wounds: if that means "X champions counters Y because he can reveal stealth", then that's bad in Riot's book, and they'll strive to remove the mechanic from the kits to put it back onto items.
I don't remember why they put it on Katarina's ult, but they removed it from about every other champions, most notably Tristana and MF.
Of course, them removing the oracle from trinkets is a step against that direction, but...
Design-wise, of course it's generally a good idea to give access to these mechanics via itemisation. Choosing which item it goes on, its stats (and generally its slot-efficiency without that mechanic) goes a long way toward balance and promoting or not champions with such kits (if you gave true sight on a slot-inefficient, cheap item the jungler or support would prob end up using it, if you buffed the stats a bit (but still inefficient) and upped the cost to medium, it'd stop being attractive in these cases and would basically nerf the full item build of whoever has to build it more than the cheap version does, so if it's a mechanic you need in most games it can be a reference to use to balance other items).
But systematically removing the mechanic from kits is... meh. It removes a way to make champions unique, and it's a lazy way to say "we don't know how to design the ability and its numbers so that it's not too powerful in its niche, and the champion isn't useless when the mechanic isn't needed"—and managing to balance this way is exactly a way to create niches for champions and differenciate them like Riot claim they want.
I still think their stance on silences and blinds is wrong. Of course it has to be finely tuned (silence doesn't do much to WW, LB doesn't care about being blinded), and because it isn't as universally good as a stun or displacement the usual way is to make it more powerful when it works so you'd rather have a 2s silence than a 1s stun, but too much can make the game really frustrating for the champions it's effective on), but it's not as binary as they say to justify removing it, in my opinion.
Also doesn't help that they still haven't fixed (nor explained that well) the interactions because Dodge, Block, Parry, Blinds and auto-attacks modifiers, on-hits effects, and abilities applying on-hits, and that the channeled abilities in the game are rare or very long ranged (Karthus' and Caitlyn's ults) so interrupts such as Blitz's and Viktor's ults are rarely relevant.
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so you can't see invisible champs with oracle now? you can't see them with anything but pinks? I thought that the oracle trinket provides true vision, but does not disable traps and this is the decision making you have to do. This is awkward honestly
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You see a red outline, a bit similar to Rengar's ult, but you can't actually target them until they become visible. It does the same with wards and traps inside the radius: you see an outline in the bush but have to walk in there to truly get vision and auto them.
The oracle trinket casts itself on top of you and follows you, that's all. It's better to sweep a wide zone during the duration is all.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
BTW I haven't read patch notes that carefully but WHY are you able to see where the enemy have their wards put? I mean in a place where enemy champion puts a ward u can see a little dot. Have you guys noticed?
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On November 15 2015 23:25 739 wrote:
BTW I haven't read patch notes that carefully but WHY are you able to see where the enemy have their wards put? I mean in a place where enemy champion puts a ward u can see a little dot. Have you guys noticed?
When a ward expires it leaves some debris to tell you it was there.
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Is there a gameplay difference between the two red trinkets?
Or is the one that follows you just better?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On November 15 2015 07:03 Gahlo wrote:
Played the J4 v Ryze matchup yesterday. Luckily he was bad but I could tell the matchup was awful for J4. Can't poke with Q because once I did it was permasnare city if he locked in the rotation. If I wasn't able to all in he had free farm mode.
Not to say that Ryze isn't bullshit - because he is - but you're basically saying "if I pick an all-in melee champ against a ranged champ with low cooldowns, I lose if I try to poke and don't all-in him". Kind of like saying Tryndamere loses to Teemo if Tryndamere never gets in melee range. Also pretty sure J4 is one of the best picks into Ryze, since you're one of the few champs with a long-range gapcloser that is not interrupted by W.
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On November 15 2015 23:37 Ketara wrote:
Is there a gameplay difference between the two red trinkets?
Or is the one that follows you just better?
sweeper still disables traps while oracle doesn't and I am not sure which one sees the invisible champs shadows, maybe its not the oracle but the sweeper if I read it correct. Haven't see it in game
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On November 16 2015 00:08 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2015 23:37 Ketara wrote:
Is there a gameplay difference between the two red trinkets?
Or is the one that follows you just better? sweeper still disables traps while oracle doesn't and I am not sure which one sees the invisible champs shadows, maybe its not the oracle but the sweeper if I read it correct. Haven't see it in game
Oracle's should disable wards if they are in the initial area you activate it.
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The top-voted comment on Reddit regarding "don't buff Zed, revert his nerfs" (with idiotic things in the op about "Riot always nerf Zed when exterior things nerf him" like blaming them for a minor nerf of his right before the tank meta, as if that could be anticipated an dictated, or whining about BotRK gaining AS when it actually made him even stronger) says, in substance:
"Increasing Zed's W range means it takes longer to reach its point so it's a nerf and it makes it harder to use."
How entitled are people wtf? It's a buff, you think it's slow, just don't cast it at max range. Being able to QW and still cast the shuriken from the shadow's point of arrival was a bug and you're upset that it got fixed? Just ask Caitlyn players.
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On November 16 2015 03:04 Alaric wrote:
The top-voted comment on Reddit regarding "don't buff Zed, revert his nerfs" (with idiotic things in the op about "Riot always nerf Zed when exterior things nerf him" like blaming them for a minor nerf of his right before the tank meta, as if that could be anticipated an dictated, or whining about BotRK gaining AS when it actually made him even stronger) says, in substance:
"Increasing Zed's W range means it takes longer to reach its point so it's a nerf and it makes it harder to use."
How entitled are people wtf? It's a buff, you think it's slow, just don't cast it at max range. Being able to QW and still cast the shuriken from the shadow's point of arrival was a bug and you're upset that it got fixed? Just ask Caitlyn players.
They are right that Zed got touched by nerfs he never deserved, and has been made (previously) into a much less fun and twitchy character. Fine with me because I don't like Zed's existence in the Meta, but they are certainly correct that this change does not restore his lost "zedness".
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On November 16 2015 03:04 Alaric wrote:
The top-voted comment on Reddit regarding "don't buff Zed, revert his nerfs" (with idiotic things in the op about "Riot always nerf Zed when exterior things nerf him" like blaming them for a minor nerf of his right before the tank meta, as if that could be anticipated an dictated, or whining about BotRK gaining AS when it actually made him even stronger) says, in substance:
"Increasing Zed's W range means it takes longer to reach its point so it's a nerf and it makes it harder to use."
How entitled are people wtf? It's a buff, you think it's slow, just don't cast it at max range. Being able to QW and still cast the shuriken from the shadow's point of arrival was a bug and you're upset that it got fixed? Just ask Caitlyn players.
It feels better to play when bugged, it's not about entitlement.
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Comments from mains can almost always be safely disregarded.
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That's why I talked about Caitlyn. People bitch that hitting Zed's Q is harder since the bug was changed, because it was a beneficial bug, contrary to Caitlyn's.
Q is a 900 range skillshot that can be extended to 1500 by using W with it. It allows you to basically fire a skillshot from 300 range away from your opponent, while sitting at 900 range from him. If it's feasible instantly Zed's QW was stupidly hard to dodge unless you were near its max (post-W) range.
It's not about the ability being hard to use, it's about the ability being unfairly hard to dodge because of the bug. Sure, let me fire Viktor's laser from up 700 range instead of 550, it'll be much harder for my opponents to dodge it at max range. And because I'm a Viktor player, I'll call it a "feature" and if you fix it I'll complain that the ability is now clunky and it doesn't feel good anymore to play Viktor.
I find it silly to complain that you can't execute harass and stuff without regard to timing or aim because of that bug, and then complain when Zed gets nerfed because of it, or when they claim that he's some super high skill cap champ (while true, it has no bearing on his skill floor, which is what the bug affected).
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On November 16 2015 03:35 Caiada wrote:
Comments from mains can almost always be safely disregarded.
When it comes to overall power level, yes, design choices its 50/50. Xerath and Ryze mains were mostly right, Viktor mains not really, but not terribly wrong, fiora mains totally wrong, and Leblanc players have a ridiculous record calling out bad design.
Like I said, Zed shouldn't exist, but if he does, it should be for faker and febiven, so I never need to deal with him, not the opposite.
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He isn't exactly relevant now. The champ is very weak honestly and has been for a while.
Also zed is supposed to win lane. If he can't do that why would you ever pick him? He isn't exactly a lategame scaler or w/e.
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thornmail vs frozen heart which is stronger final armor item for a bruiser assuming i already have deadmans plate
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Comes down to whether the opponents are casters or autoattackers I think.
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Not only. League is too situational to ask questions like that. Need to be a lot more specific.
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On November 16 2015 04:53 Osmoses wrote:
Comes down to whether the opponents are casters or autoattackers I think.
why is that relevant you are building it late so it wont help u in lane and in team fights enemy renekton or riven shouldn't be focusing you anyway, i usually built thornmail but more i play with it since the nerfs more im convinced dmg it does is negligible and now that it costs even more i have hard time justifying it over fh
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Do you need mana and CDR? Buy FH. Would those be useful but not especially important? Probably Thornmail. If you don't need either, obviously Thornmail. Is the only guy you have to worry about for armor the ADC? Randuin's and Thornmail.
Guidelines. Use your best judgment. Both have a lot of conditional value.
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Randuins got a pretty big buff in preseason.
50 HP is nice, but I'm more talking about adcs having more crit, and the arpen changes disproportionately hitting FH and Thornmail more than randuin and DMP.
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Welp, ended up picking Sejuani in an inhouse. I have absolutely no idea how to play her in this pre-season. Ended up going 0-12-18, still maxing W.
First clear was a bit harsh, even with 3 pots, I ended up half HP after red. Other than that smooth sailing once I had the talisman for the mana and a few levels, but damn, the price for the "upgraded" jungle item really makes itself felt if your first clear isn't good.
Azir is still as brainless as ever, and Vi... still as bugged. This time I ulted him, making me cc immune, he casted his ult right before I reached him as soon as I went into the air (for the uppercut then slam animation) I was knocked away by his wall.
Well, add that to the list I guess.
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^ hunters potion sustain is super good, i love it on jng olaf and hes super mana hungry i dont even mind giving 2nd blue to my midlaners(which i never did before lol), probably helps i can easily do 1st full clear so i can back with perfect gold for machete upgrade and flask upgrade
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I always jungled Sion before, and he is still very strong. That hard engage, burst and cc is just brutal. Between qw and e he also has a very fast clear, and with the new mana items you can do it without blue.
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So Xin Zhao with Sated, Guinsoo's and Gunblade (and 2 random tank items) is.. kind of funny. Had 3 people pounding on him and he just refused to die. Guinsoo's in general is kind of dumb but that was one of those 'yep it's preseason moments'.
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Are there even inhouses in League? Those look unbalanced as all hell from my experience in costum games before.
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On November 16 2015 23:47 JJMC wrote:
Are there even inhouses in League? Those look unbalanced as all hell from my experience in costum games before.
yes and yes
TL used to run some weekly
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On November 17 2015 03:33 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 23:47 JJMC wrote:
Are there even inhouses in League? Those look unbalanced as all hell from my experience in costum games before. They work alot better if you know the skill level of other participants very well. I do some with my friends every now and then and its really easy to balance by just playing a non-meta or first time champ for higher ranks if its slightly imbalanced. Usually turns out to be some close games
I like that idea. I play in-houses with my group and it's always super awkward to try to have to talk about who's better than whom. We usually just end up pairing off people and splitting teams that way.
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you could just go by ranking no?
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s5 I went from Plat on my main champs to legit Silver when playing AD.
Riot's "design" philosophy made s6 a mess so I'm prob somewhere in Gold now with tanks being more or less unusable.
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I mean... if you're silver you're silver. I don't get my mains every game either it doesn't really drop my rating 2 whole tiers.
If you're friends with them and play a lot together than it's easier to differentiate skill through experience but otherwise there's really no other metric in this game for something like inhouses
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if you're serious about climbing, just dodge if you don't get a main role/champ. it's better for your mmr to dodge and avoid the losses.
that aside i feel pretty good about the relative state of the roles to each other right now. i think that rageblade + corrupting pot might need to be toned down a little bit but otherwise everything feels great to play
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On November 17 2015 05:27 Nos- wrote:
I mean... if you're silver you're silver. I don't get my mains every game either it doesn't really drop my rating 2 whole tiers.
If you're friends with them and play a lot together than it's easier to differentiate skill through experience but otherwise there's really no other metric in this game for something like inhouses
What I mean is that I'll beat most of the others in a solo lane match-up, and be useful from the jungle, but if I play AD then the shiny Plat division next to my name won't mean anything.
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On November 17 2015 05:22 Alaric wrote:
s5 I went from Plat on my main champs to legit Silver when playing AD.
Riot's "design" philosophy made s6 a mess so I'm prob somewhere in Gold now with tanks being more or less unusable.
Malphite shen mundo rammus etc are the highest winrate champs in soloq right now.
Everyones so busy circlejerking about rageblade and fervor and warlord that they failed to notice that grasp + the defensive masteries are completely bonkers.
As for inhouses, it depends what the aim is. The euw inhouses we generally focussed much more on tryharding/teaching/learning. There would be 1-2 high ranked players on each team, and they'd shotcall, then after the game people would give advice etc. Most games were generally relatively balanced, since both teams had a decent shotcaller to stop things snowballing to complete disaster and everybody is playing their main roles and playing seriously, and everyone generally learnt a bunch even if they did get stomped.
The NA inhouses are more of a fun thing, and there are generally several people not really taking it seriously, but we have a decent enough idea of each others skill that you can get roughly even teams pretty reliably, although there are often games where people are just derping around or trying something new, and you just get complete stomps.
If your friends are too overly sensitive to acknowledge that one is better then another, you can just tell people to team hop until the teams "look fair," without specifically saying who's better or worse... But srsly, do people really get offended by that?
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This key mastery in the middle tree: stormrider surge (if you take 30% of enemy's health under 2 sec, you receive 30% movement speed for 3 sec,), on what champions is good at all? I can't think of anyone who won't prefer something else
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On November 17 2015 19:23 M2 wrote:
This key mastery in the middle tree: stormrider surge (if you take 30% of enemy's health under 2 sec, you receive 30% movement speed for 3 sec,), on what champions is good at all? I can't think of anyone who won't prefer something else
There's all kinds of champions its good on, wtf.
It's bugged right now though.
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TF for example does very well with it, because his yellow card q combo is guaranteed to proc it, and he likes a little movement speed while waiting for the next one.
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On November 17 2015 19:28 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 19:23 M2 wrote:
This key mastery in the middle tree: stormrider surge (if you take 30% of enemy's health under 2 sec, you receive 30% movement speed for 3 sec,), on what champions is good at all? I can't think of anyone who won't prefer something else There's all kinds of champions its good on, wtf. It's bugged right now though.
Name few please with explanation and mind that I am not saying its not good, but that there are always better options. Obviously its good on champs that have burst and also want to chase or get out after, maybe shaco? I really don't know
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On November 17 2015 19:32 Osmoses wrote:
TF for example does very well with it, because his yellow card q combo is guaranteed to proc it, and he likes a little movement speed while waiting for the next one.
ok agree with that one, I thought decree will be the choice for TF, but this one is better I guess
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I would probably take it on any AP without mobility in their kit that could proc it reliably. Hermerderpler also comes to mind, he easily prefers mobility over some extra damage.
Oh, I'd love to try it on Cass, fits her perfectly. Although so does deathfire touch...
Syndra would probably benefit more from the speedup though.
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how about hecarim, seems like a nice option but some keystones are too good right now to skip (fervor ...)
btw frozen mallet 650hp,40 AD and passive for 3.1k seems cheap and overlooked righty now, people consider steraks good but i find mallet overall better item
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Australia18228 Posts
On November 17 2015 19:39 Osmoses wrote:
I would probably take it on any AP without mobility in their kit that could proc it reliably. Hermerderpler also comes to mind, he easily prefers mobility over some extra damage.
Oh, I'd love to try it on Cass, fits her perfectly. Although so does deathfire touch...
Syndra would probably benefit more from the speedup though.
I think Syndra would want Thunderlords, works on QEW combos & auto-procs on Ult
Might be useful on assassins like Talon and Rengar?
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I did see a Rango with it in one stream game, it looked pretty goddamn broken.
Pretty much if you assume you don't need more damage to kill the guy, it gets you out / gets you to the next guy.
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any1 playing in korea region? I just started playing there and was wondering if theres any newbie reward such as xp boost for early levels.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 17 2015 19:23 M2 wrote:
This key mastery in the middle tree: stormrider surge (if you take 30% of enemy's health under 2 sec, you receive 30% movement speed for 3 sec,), on what champions is good at all? I can't think of anyone who won't prefer something else
Champions that are mono-directional like Xin and Talon, giving them a way to get out of the fight. Champions that need sticking power but don't tend to have a lot. The most egregious one I can think of is Darius your teammates get bopped and now he can chase after you.
Some champions don't need "more damage mastery 7", just a way to deal their damage more consistently.
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On November 17 2015 19:32 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 19:28 Ketara wrote:On November 17 2015 19:23 M2 wrote:
This key mastery in the middle tree: stormrider surge (if you take 30% of enemy's health under 2 sec, you receive 30% movement speed for 3 sec,), on what champions is good at all? I can't think of anyone who won't prefer something else There's all kinds of champions its good on, wtf. It's bugged right now though. Name few please with explanation and mind that I am not saying its not good, but that there are always better options. Obviously its good on champs that have burst and also want to chase or get out after, maybe shaco? I really don't know
Great on poke champs (varus, tf, ziggs etc) so you can chunk people then kite for cooldowns.
Great on immobile teamfighters (viktor, azir, etc) giving insane mobility in teamfights on champions who's only real weakness is immobility.
Great on assassins (talon, rengar etc) who blow one person up then have to fall back and wait for cooldowns.
Great on specific bruisers vs squishy team comps because it gives them a way to stick to their targets.
Great on niche champs like hecarim
it's just an INSANE utility ability on almost anyone tbh, even adc's would love it if crit wasn't so broken. It's just completely busted and bugged right now so it feels really really underwhelming because it just never procs because it's broken.
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Has anyone tried mundo top/jungle properly yet?
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I've tried 2 games of Mundo jungle, first clear is super weak but his midgame is pretty insane.
I went Q max first and those cleavers still hurt a lot.
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Anyone tried s6 Sona? I think she is heavily buffed with the new items. She makes good use of the better Spellthiefs. Moreover, Sona is one of the few supports that can go for Eye of the Watchers without losing much, which is pretty important with the requirement of 1 pink ward slot nowadays. New masteries (shielding/healing) and grievous wounds changes are also quite nice.
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Storm raider surge is epic on cass. I prefer it over deathfire, simple because cass doesn't need more damage, but survivability. With sorc boots, and furor along with cass q and storm raider, yiu are looking at 550ish movement speed inside combat. It allows for easy reposition and dodging of skill shots. I find it muchore.noticeable and effective instead of the increased damage found in other abilities
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See I wondered if that was the case, because I remember hearing cass' damage was so bad before lategame since the "rework". I'm liking the choices anyway.
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On November 15 2015 12:34 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2015 12:16 krndandaman wrote:
the creep/champ block is insane
creep block needs no explanation but today I couldn't move past the bush near wraiths because the braum on my team was in it. it was so troll having my character just stuck there as I try to spam click through. I saw a Rammus in ball mode get bodyblocked involuntarily by the Sivir on his team. She was just running in lane at ~400 MS and he was at near 600, moving inch by inch behind her instead of pathing around then darting ahead. Creep (and champion, for the ones with large models) collision size increase+worse pathing does wonky things.
this is a real problem, i'm getting blocked by the dumbest shit ever all the time lol
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I've gotten stuck between a creep and a wall and just started having a seizure in place. Really weird stuff
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today minion wave blocked my entire lane i had to go through jungle
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Lost a free kill because my guy decided that instead of just autoing he should walk around the entire creepwave.
This is what happens when you rewrite old but perfectly functional code. -_-
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I got pinned to a wall by my own teams azir w soldiers yesterday
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The creeps in this patch have very fat asses that's for sure.
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just realized zeal has 4 upgrade options and every single one is marksmen item, even trinity got changed so its mainly adc item now, as a bruiser main who used to love that item im pissed as fk
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On November 18 2015 03:07 NovaTheFeared wrote:
The creeps in this patch have very fat asses that's for sure.
NO SYMPY
HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME
THIS GOES OUT TO ALL MY FREAKS OUT THERE
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does deathfire touch work with shaco's boxes?
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On November 18 2015 03:24 kongoline wrote:
just realized zeal has 4 upgrade options and every single one is marksmen item, even trinity got changed so its mainly adc item now, as a bruiser main who used to love that item im pissed as fk
Trinity is as good as it ever was for the bruisers it was good on, arguably better because of additional mana/cdr/more consistent crits. Losing 5AD, mostly-useless aspd, and the often-wasted AP is trivial.
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less movement speed,AD and attack speed is huge, bruisers dont care about crit this change was made purely for adc,
removal of ap seems like nothing but a lot of champions who bought it had meaningful ap ratios, mana they added changes nothing even with old trinity ur mana problems were solved as soon as u finished sheen anything more was just luxury and not needed
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Yup, the movement speed on Triforce was overlooked if you think it wasn't a draw of the item. It's not DMP, sure, but it's there.
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On November 18 2015 02:02 Osmoses wrote:
See I wondered if that was the case, because I remember hearing cass' damage was so bad before lategame since the "rework". I'm liking the choices anyway.
Cass has never had damage problems from the rework, damage just rests more heavily on e spam. The biggest issue with cass is her very harah mana gates, when massively reduce your dps until mid / late.
Level 2 cass is just as deadly as the ond one. However the difference is that you have to make sure your mana is topped off, enemy is slightly poked, and you have ignite im most cases. Old cass (with proper mana management) basically never ran out of mana once you bought tear.
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To add to the blocking, in co-op vs ai games I've noticed a large number of bots get stuck permanently (until death) in place at some point throughout the game. I haven't connected dots until now, but perhaps they get pathing stuck and then glitch out because of it?
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I tried rageblade -> runaans lucian.
Sadly the rageblade stacks didn't go up 3 at a time, and while the onhit damage from rageblade hit the extra targets, it didn't seem to splash properly 
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encouraged by people saying mundo is good i picked him to jungle 1st run is rough but after buy your clear speed and sustain is super good, unfortunately enemy team had vayne and at any point of the game she killed me in literally 3seconds (to make things worse their mid was malz) i just dont see how 12% max true dmg was a good design choice there was nothing i could do at any point in the game even with fed red smite mundo, guess i will just stick to building dmg on champions and hope i can 1shot people rather then tank them
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Eh, problem with vayne isn't the damage as much as the mobility. The other ADCs I can handle somewhat as a tank/bruiser, but kalista and vayne? Forget it, not even worth trying.
Actually the problem with both Kalista and Vayne is both the damage and the mobility. They should have to pay some kind of price for that ridiculous mobility, but damage clearly isn't it.
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handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now
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funny fact just checked match history and she actually never built last whisper, didnt look like she needed it considering i never felt so squishy on 4k hp 300 armor mundo(she had the infamous shiv,firecannon tho)
im fine with her mobility(not kalista fuck that champion and person who thought dash every auto is a good idea) but the dmg is excessive and has 0 counterplay theres nothing i can build to survive more than few hits only way is one shot her which is super hard and relays on your team having specific champions, the fact now u cant reveal her with trinket makes it even more frustrating
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Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).
Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?
Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?
One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.
The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track.
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On November 18 2015 23:57 Alaric wrote:
Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).
Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?
Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?
One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.
The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track.
Kalista isn't a good single target DPS champion anymore, since she's pretty much exclusively built Runaans now, her multi target DPS isn't too bad, especially if she gets big rend stacks on three or more (which is pretty hard, granted). Idk if you can say her turret taking power is weaker than most other ADC, she's building straight DPS, no crit which means that she hits towers hard. Doesn't compare to tower killers like Jinx or Trist though.
MF is a pretty BS champ atm, the punishment of being hit by her Q through the minion wave is pretty insane, it basically means that having range advantage can be a bad thing since it means when you're standing behind the wave you are susceptible to being hit by a Q worthy of being an IE crit. I wouldn't say she's blatantly broken, but her damage can be pretty scary, and Essence Reaver puts her ult on a pretty low CD, making it actually useful.
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United States11390 Posts
On November 18 2015 23:24 Nos- wrote:
handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now
That build just got pretty nerfed now that warlords is hotfixed. Now you cant freely stay in lane farming minions due to the sustain it gave.
Gosu tried that build a few times last night after hotfix was live and was dumpstered hard each time. (probably still great build if you have a soraka though)
Feels like bork is back to being ideal first item on vayne, even saw stixxay do bork shiv rfc last night vs sneaky which seems promising as you get the sustain vayne wants but also the shiv plus rfc proc that does silly damage atm (also shiv is on the pbe nerf block where the shiv proc does less damage but has bettet waveclear)
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United States11390 Posts
On November 19 2015 00:30 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 23:57 Alaric wrote:
Vayne has no reach outside of her aa range, no waveclear and her steroids only work on units, so she's super strong in a fight but can't push, take towers quickly, or siege well. She's also supposed to be vulnerable in lane to champions who can either outtrade her (pre-work Graves, Corki, Lucian with frontloaded burst) or poke her out (Caitlyn).
Kalista... well her dps is supposed to be weak I guess? No steroid, so same she doesn't take towers fast, and her autos deal reduced damage. Her passive also makes her lose dps past some point I think?
Isn't she technically nerfed atm because BotRK has been made worse (both nerfed itself, and weaker compared to its competition) while Hurricane loses AS, weakening the AS/on-hit synergy (for Rend in her case) and making her rely more on crit when hers deal less damage than other marksmen?
One champ that doesn't really have a weakness apart from no dash and no instaclear atm is MF.
The trinket lets you hit Vayne with skillshots, although it seems that rather than a shade of its model, a stealthed champion appears as an "afterimage" of its position every 0.5s, making high MS champs hard to track. Kalista isn't a good single target DPS champion anymore, since she's pretty much exclusively built Runaans now, her multi target DPS isn't too bad, especially if she gets big rend stacks on three or more (which is pretty hard, granted). Idk if you can say her turret taking powbuter is weaker than most other ADC, she's building straight DPS, no crit which means that she hits towers hard. Doesn't compare to tower killers like Jinx or Trist though. MF is a pretty BS champ atm, the punishment of being hit by her Q through the minion wave is pretty insane, it basically means that having range advantage can be a bad thing since it means when you're standing behind the wave you are susceptible to being hit by a Q worthy of being an IE crit. I wouldn't say she's blatantly broken, but her damage can be pretty scary, and Essence Reaver puts her ult on a pretty low CD, making it actually useful.
Runaans gives crit now so people are building stuff like IE again on her
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Kalista is super good if you have a couple protect the AD abilities and once you hit 3 items
MF is hilarious, I chunked a Rammus for like 1/3 of his health on about equal items. Also her ult does huge damage, it's absolutely ridiculous.
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Building BotRK and Hurricane, Kalista had much more AS than your average marksman, who made up for it with crit which doesn't work on towers. So she ended up doing more dps to towers if she could get in range, I'm not sure how the 90% aa damage factors in here.
What I was getting at is that with Hurricane's AS drastically reduced and BotRK nerfed, the on-hit route isn't worth it anymore, and Kalista ends up with a similar build to other marksmen, which has about as much AS but she still doesn't have a steroid and kept her aa damage reduction, so she's comparatively worse than them at killing towers now.
About MF, she's got great AoE damage from her ult, good burst thanks to her passive if she has to switch targets, and excellent dps because of her steroid (mainly because it's so easy to rise its duration to 9 seconds, 6 is basically built in). The strength of her steroid makes her good at killing towers.
Between her E and Q bounce+passive, she's good at harassing during sieges too, so her weaknesses are basically the lack of a dash, poor waveclear, and awful aa and ult animations (seriously).
Basically, she's good at too many things, or too good at them for how many she has access too. Having ~180 armour, her no LW yet, I took 1300 damage from her ult head-on (I went to 200 armour, she bought LW, I took 1500 damage for a slightly less complete ult). Buffing it was a thing, but making it scale with crit was both inelegant/forced, and over the top in terms of power.
If you combine such an ult and her passive in close-quarters, there's basically no good situation against her.
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Her ult should be disgusting, there's no other good reason to pick her. I'm just wondering why she then needed a 120% AS steroid and exactly whose idea that was. Even 90 will be ridiculous.
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That's the thing: if nor for her ult (Graves used to occupy the spot for AoE burst (physical) damage, Lucian too in some capacity although part of it body-blockable, and Corki for AoE magic damage in the midgame), they could have found another spot for her.
For example set her up as a marksman taking potshots by positioning on the edges of the fight, combining Struts and E's strong slow, and providing additional damage on the backline by with Q bounces triggering Love Tap.
Now she gets both, and stupid high amounts of dps too because of her steroid. It's like Thresh doing it all, something has to give (well Thresh doesn't rely on numbers so he still does everything).
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 19 2015 03:18 krndandaman wrote:
maybe people just have to get better at respecting these new ranges but I still think it's dumb a champion like vayne can threaten from 800 range with very low CD. raise the cd or something and perhaps it'll be fine. or unique passive so it doesnt stack with shiv? anything so that you don't have ridiculous crit burst waveclear poke range ADDMOREHERE.
I think they need to make it unique passives: only the stronger proc should apply, as with multiple sheen items. Also the wiki suggests (it's not confirmed) than each item generates stacks so you get to use even more often, as if it wasn't dumb enough. I don't know if it's real but it clearly genertes very fast compared to old shiv.
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On November 18 2015 23:24 Nos- wrote:
handcannon + shiv might just be a little too good together for someone like vayne right now
RFC/Shiv is probably too strong on all AD's. Its just a huge amount of surplus magic damage, kite(move speed and attack speed), and scaling [both in the crit mastery lifesteal and in the fact that you can tack on IE and an LW item and/or ER.
@krndandaman 700 range not 800, but still insane.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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They made it not unique on purpose, though, in the pre-season threads they advertised the combo as the ultimate poke combination or something, for sieges and waveclear.
'cept it's also the ultimate combo to stand up and fight since it provides 60% crit, ridiculous frontloaded burst for a pair intended for the sustained damage class, and a bunch of AS/MS.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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can still clear jungle with malzahar and do level 3 dragon
too bad the physical damage vamp thing is apparently bugged and doesn't work on voidlings
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Btw how does Sated Devourer work EXACTLY?
Unique – Phantom Hit: Every second basic attack will trigger a phantom attack, applying on-hit effects twice.
Does that mean I get THREE on-hits every second AA in total? 1x from my AA, 2x from phantom? Or do they just mean "Yeah it also applies on-hit, so you get two on-hits in total"?
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On November 19 2015 17:20 Celial wrote:
Btw how does Sated Devourer work EXACTLY?
Unique – Phantom Hit: Every second basic attack will trigger a phantom attack, applying on-hit effects twice.
Does that mean I get THREE on-hits every second AA in total? 1x from my AA, 2x from phantom? Or do they just mean "Yeah it also applies on-hit, so you get two on-hits in total"?
You get two onhits total on the second attack. 0.0
Have people suddenly remembered that renekton counters top lane brusiers or something, because there's been a renekton in every single game i've played today, and they've stomped lane every time.
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I mean he did well at worlds, coupled with the fact that lvl11 is late game atm = he's really strong.
ppl playing jax if not banned helps also
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i dont even think renekton counters jax anymore, E blocking stun and fervor + rage blade synergizing with his skills make this matchup hard to win
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Doesn't E only block the damage and not the stun?
On paper Renekton wrecks Jax long before he can reach rageblade.
And worlds+a montage made frontpage on reddit by SoloRenektonOnly.
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On November 19 2015 18:15 Alaric wrote:Doesn't E only block the damage and not the stun? On paper Renekton wrecks Jax long before he can reach rageblade. And worlds+a montage made frontpage on reddit by SoloRenektonOnly.
Well a jax e blocked the knockup from my third q strike on xin a few days ago. I think they changed the dodge mechanic slightly this patch?
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since 5.22 it blocks also effects u can even block tf stun card(it makes renekton and garen matchups so much easier now), funny u mention solorenektononly cuz i watch him a lot and even he thinks jax wins that matchup now, i saw him getting smashed on his stream 2 days ago and he was talking a lot how most jax doesnt know how too play that matchup and trade (nothing special u basically leave lane when ur E is on cd), he started banning jax since then everytime hes 1st pick even tho he plays only renekton.
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Question: If you burst someone having Deathfire Touch, does it stack on all abilities you land or just the 1st one and then goes on CD before you can apply it again?
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On November 19 2015 18:41 M2 wrote:
Question: If you burst someone having Deathfire Touch, does it stack on all abilities you land or just the 1st one and then goes on CD before you can apply it again?
Just the first ability you land, the duration of the burn is refreshed whenever any additional spells land. DOT refreshes it every tick of damage
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On November 19 2015 04:20 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 03:18 krndandaman wrote:
maybe people just have to get better at respecting these new ranges but I still think it's dumb a champion like vayne can threaten from 800 range with very low CD. raise the cd or something and perhaps it'll be fine. or unique passive so it doesnt stack with shiv? anything so that you don't have ridiculous crit burst waveclear poke range ADDMOREHERE.
I think they need to make it unique passives: only the stronger proc should apply, as with multiple sheen items. Also the wiki suggests (it's not confirmed) than each item generates stacks so you get to use even more often, as if it wasn't dumb enough. I don't know if it's real but it clearly genertes very fast compared to old shiv.
Their Energize passive doesn't stack. However since you have 2 Zeal items you attack and move much faster leading to more stacks than with just a single Energize item.
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On November 19 2015 18:23 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 18:15 Alaric wrote:Doesn't E only block the damage and not the stun? On paper Renekton wrecks Jax long before he can reach rageblade. And worlds+a montage made frontpage on reddit by SoloRenektonOnly. Well a jax e blocked the knockup from my third q strike on xin a few days ago. I think they changed the dodge mechanic slightly this patch?
Yea they changed it this patch, so that Jax E blocks AutoAttack modifiers, plus their cc. Before Poppy Q Renek W and Xin Q went through his E.
Renekton pre patch rekt most bruisers anyway, Now with ignite its not even close.
Except that now Jax shits on Renekton also which is retarded imho. Jax atm(even w/o rageblade) w/ Fervor is too strong. Perhaps the only 2 champs that can beat him are Fiora and Irelia both with fervor. Malphite does good too but he will need jungle help to shut jax down.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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United States11390 Posts
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ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason.
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On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason.
Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o
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On November 20 2015 13:51 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason. Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o
Vayne and Lucian feel exactly the same to me, Cait feels a little better but still has a terrible midgame because of awkward item builds.
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Pretty much all the top winrate champs are top lane tanks right?
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On November 20 2015 14:55 Ketara wrote:
Pretty much all the top winrate champs are top lane tanks right?
Idk bout winrates, but from my anecdotal evidence AD melee champs like Jax, Irelia, Trynd, Xin, and Yasuo, (along with brand, who is op as fuck) just get fed no matter what and shit on everyone.
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On November 20 2015 14:49 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 13:51 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason. Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o Vayne and Lucian feel exactly the same to me, Cait feels a little better but still has a terrible midgame because of awkward item builds.
?!?
Vayne gets to go shiv -> firecannon as her first two items. That's completely insane burst on the first auto. Plus her w got a huge buff.
Lucian can go essence reaver into zeal and have 30% cdr, and a bunch of crit off two items, then go ie and golden.
As for why tanks have a higher winrate, that's just because not everyone are playing the op tops yet, but everyone is playing the op adc's. If cait/vayne/mf/lucian/graves are always laning against each other, they'll almost never get above 52-53% winrate, purely because for one to win the other has to lose. Meanwhile things like mundo/malphite/jax/shen get to lane against people still playing shit like darius/vlad/aatrox/riven/whatever, so they don't have that limiter.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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On November 20 2015 15:10 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 14:49 IMoperator wrote:On November 20 2015 13:51 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason. Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o Vayne and Lucian feel exactly the same to me, Cait feels a little better but still has a terrible midgame because of awkward item builds. ?!? Vayne gets to go shiv -> firecannon as her first two items. That's completely insane burst on the first auto. Plus her w got a huge buff. Lucian can go essence reaver into zeal and have 30% cdr, and a bunch of crit off two items, then go ie and golden. As for why tanks have a higher winrate, that's just because not everyone are playing the op tops yet, but everyone is playing the op adc's. If cait/vayne/mf/lucian/graves are always laning against each other, they'll almost never get above 52-53% winrate, purely because for one to win the other has to lose. Meanwhile things like mundo/malphite/jax/shen get to lane against people still playing shit like darius/vlad/aatrox/riven/whatever, so they don't have that limiter.
Vayne's autos do shit for damage though, so unless you get super fed you're going to be critting for no damage after that first proc.
Lucian feels about the same to me, haven't noticed anything that special yet. You're kinda forced to sell essence reaver later but it's pretty good for the early/mid game i guess.
actually I want to add that in general it feels like adc's do less damage because of lack of ad, not just vayne
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On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes
It wouldn't matter much for jax, the other options are so good right now. And cheap.
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played my first few games since april, Bard is still the best champion in the history of this game
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a lot of jax and irelia mains(saw even hecarims do that) build iceborn guntlet now instead of trinity which feels so wrong
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On November 20 2015 15:27 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 15:10 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 14:49 IMoperator wrote:On November 20 2015 13:51 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason. Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o Vayne and Lucian feel exactly the same to me, Cait feels a little better but still has a terrible midgame because of awkward item builds. ?!? Vayne gets to go shiv -> firecannon as her first two items. That's completely insane burst on the first auto. Plus her w got a huge buff. Lucian can go essence reaver into zeal and have 30% cdr, and a bunch of crit off two items, then go ie and golden. As for why tanks have a higher winrate, that's just because not everyone are playing the op tops yet, but everyone is playing the op adc's. If cait/vayne/mf/lucian/graves are always laning against each other, they'll almost never get above 52-53% winrate, purely because for one to win the other has to lose. Meanwhile things like mundo/malphite/jax/shen get to lane against people still playing shit like darius/vlad/aatrox/riven/whatever, so they don't have that limiter. Vayne's autos do shit for damage though, so unless you get super fed you're going to be critting for no damage after that first proc. Lucian feels about the same to me, haven't noticed anything that special yet. You're kinda forced to sell essence reaver later but it's pretty good for the early/mid game i guess. actually I want to add that in general it feels like adc's do less damage because of lack of ad, not just vayne
If vayne just ults her autos hit like a truck, and she gets way more autos then she used to. Comparing her damage with a typical build pre patch to now and she just does straight up more in autos, + more shiv procs + more crit + more attack speed + her w's are stronger. The only thing she's lost from her old build path is the life steal, but i'd trade that any day for the ability to initiate any trade/all in with a 600+ damage AA from 700 range.
Like, once she has her two item core, she either chunks you for half your hp in one auto from 800 range, or she q auto auto e's you for 80% of your hp (or half a full tanks hp) or she just ults, and 3 shots you.
And why would lucian sell essence reaver later, he's getting 30% cdr from one item that does a ton of damage, has crit AND restores all his mana. Besides 95%+ of games are decided within 20-25 minutes right now anyway. I've had probably one game in the last 30 that was still close when adc's were finishing their 4th item, let alone full build.
Like the play patterns of adc's have changed a little, and people are still working out when to buy last whisper and whatnot, but vaynes/lucians/whatever are definitely just straight up way stronger then they were pre patch. The only adc's who suffered are the ones like jinx (who really needs 2-3 items to get going) or the ones they gutted like kog'maw.
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On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes
Triforce is that item you get after maxing 6 items and selling your boots for something better.
Thats like...less than 1% of the games?
TF isnt a bad item, its just that when competing with ER as a first item ER is so broken strong, and compared to other zeal items its too expensive.
I never liked TF as first item for lucian. Damage from BF sword allowed you to choose to simply poke with Q through minions or trade damage with passive, while phage damage is lackluster, and phage+sheen forces you to trade for damage with passive that felt a lot less efficient than a BF sword.
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On November 20 2015 19:14 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes Triforce is that item you get after maxing 6 items and selling your boots for something better. Thats like...less than 1% of the games? TF isnt a bad item, its just that when competing with ER as a first item ER is so broken strong, and compared to other zeal items its too expensive.
I've seen quite a few people go ER -> Triforce, 40% cdr off two items, with a sheen too.
Feels like with the strength of tanks right now even people like lucian really need to go ER -> zeal item -> IE to have relevancy in the midgame though :s
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Since I've spent the last two weeks tunnel visioning on Lux math, somebody should explain the new ADC items to me.
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On November 20 2015 19:22 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:14 padfoota wrote:On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes Triforce is that item you get after maxing 6 items and selling your boots for something better. Thats like...less than 1% of the games? TF isnt a bad item, its just that when competing with ER as a first item ER is so broken strong, and compared to other zeal items its too expensive. I've seen quite a few people go ER -> Triforce, 40% cdr off two items, with a sheen too. Feels like with the strength of tanks right now even people like lucian really need to go ER -> zeal item -> IE to have relevancy in the midgame though :s
I definitely prefer ER -> TF. But it feels like if you cannot get this by 23 minutes there are basically better choices.
On November 20 2015 19:22 Ketara wrote:
Since I've spent the last two weeks tunnel visioning on Lux math, somebody should explain the new ADC items to me.
Kinda hard.
Starting with the first item
IE vs ER vs BotRK - IE got nerfed a bit, dropping to 65 AD, ER got a massive buff, gaining crit, 10% cdr and up to 20% extra cdr from other sources of crit, so total of 30% from this item (1:1 crit cdr ratio,) BotRK got nerfed a bit
Zeal based items -
Zeal by itself gives 20% crit now, so ER + zeal = 30%
Statik Shiv - 30% crit now, same passive, buy this for burst damage/pushing power
Phantom Dancer - Gained a new passive UNIQUE – LAMENT: The last champion hit deals 12% less damage to you (ends after 10 seconds of not hitting). Useful for split pushing + dueling power.
TF - gained another 10% crit and 10% CDR, but I think the AD was dropped to 25 (was it 30 before?), and AP removed
Rapid Fire Cannon - similar to Shiv, but you gain a increased range charged shot - great for poking towers and long range poking champions. Basically a Shiv gives percentage increased range that does extra damage on the lightning but doesnt bounce once you charge it up. Since the range increase is percentage based, it is unnoticeable on melee champs
Runaan's Hurricane - Joins this list as now it builds off Zeal, gives 30% crit, the split projectiles also crit now. Decreased attack speed (40 now) than before.
Last Whisper based -
Last whisper was nerfed and split into two final upgrades
Nerf as in now it only penetrates EXTRA ARMOR, while before it penetrated TOTAL ARMOR. Last whisper is now a 1300 gold item, that upgrades into two versions - one decreasing heal on the target, and the other increasing damage based on Max HP differential between the user and the target.UNIQUE – GIANT SLAYER: Grants up to +15% physical damage against enemy champions with greater maximum Health than you (+1.5% damage per 50 Health difference, maxing at 500 Health difference).
Other items worth noting
Ghostblade - Lost the crit, now gives a whopping 65 AD
Rageblade - Is a broken item on any autoattack based championg, although I haven;t seen ADCs use it much since ER is so strong. Gains extra physical and magical damage per attack, and once charged up gains aoe damage per attack
Death's Dance - new item 65ad 10% cdr with two passives - one is basically lifesteal that works on all AD damage sources - spells/skills including - Ive seen rivens go this item and responded very well to it
It also serves as an interesting "tanky" UNIQUE: Stores 12% of all physical and magical damage received, and is taken as a damage over time instead, dealing one-third of the stored damage every second. Basically it helps users to not be bursted down immediately.
Maw of Malmortius - Basically had the old "increased AD" passive removed and changed to the original rageblade passive - UNIQUE – LIFEGRIP: When Lifeline triggers, gain +25% Attack Speed, +10% Spell Vamp, and +10% Life Steal until out of combat.
Mercurial Scimitar - gained 10% lifesteal,
Comments - Some believe ADCs were buffed due to the massive variety of items to choose from, with many ADCs basically stacking CDR as ER gives a total of 30% of CDR already. Others believe ADC's are actually awkward now since IE was nerfed, forcing original hypercarries to be shoved aside in favor of caster ADC's, and the massive nerf to last whisper is actually pretty painful when playing against armor stacking champs (Rammus, Malph, top Taric (actually a fucking thing now)
All in all an interesting patch for ADs
What else did I miss?
Oh I should probably mention that a lot of ADCs were buffed/reworked, but you should probably know this -_-
Just from the top of my head - Quinn, Cait, MF, Lucian, Corki, Graves, Kog,
Caster ADCs are also enjoying a nice run in mid. Varus MF Lucian etc
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Started practicing some top lane and I gotta chime in that these creep blocks are something else ... Fiora is like unintentionally nerfed because every time you get a Q proc in you can't walk back to creep line thanks to pathing + ridiculous creep block issues. Instead of a nimble fencer I felt like I was playing someone who was tripping over her own shoelaces. At one point, I Q procced in only to get stuck on a creep as I tried to follow up with an E. She proceeded to spaz out in some weird tango while my opponent chucked ninja stars at me at his own whim =\.
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Yeah jesus christ I have to say pathing is super weird this game
On another note - I remember Azir's ulti can still push away a ragnarok'd Olaf no? Is it supposed to just pass through him -_-?
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On November 20 2015 19:25 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:22 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 19:14 padfoota wrote:On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes Triforce is that item you get after maxing 6 items and selling your boots for something better. Thats like...less than 1% of the games? TF isnt a bad item, its just that when competing with ER as a first item ER is so broken strong, and compared to other zeal items its too expensive. I've seen quite a few people go ER -> Triforce, 40% cdr off two items, with a sheen too. Feels like with the strength of tanks right now even people like lucian really need to go ER -> zeal item -> IE to have relevancy in the midgame though :s I definitely prefer ER -> TF. But it feels like if you cannot get this by 23 minutes there are basically better choices. Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:22 Ketara wrote:
Since I've spent the last two weeks tunnel visioning on Lux math, somebody should explain the new ADC items to me. Kinda hard. Starting with the first item IE vs ER vs BotRK - IE got nerfed a bit, dropping to 65 AD, ER got a massive buff, gaining crit, 10% cdr and up to 20% extra cdr from other sources of crit, so total of 30% from this item (1:1 crit cdr ratio,) BotRK got nerfed a bit
Nobody gets botrk first at all, and IE first is pretty bad.
The starting item choices seem to be
ER: on casters
Shiv/Firecannon: on auto attackers, vayne goes both into ie, i've seen people like trist go shiv into ie
Partial IE -> zeal -> IE: Like, bf sword + maybe pickaxe -> zeal -> ie -> shiv. Seems most common, you don't really get anything from actually finishing IE early, so it seems way more cost efficient to grab at least a zeal (I've seen bf+pickaxe -> shiv -> ie too) before finishing IE.
Also hurricane is suddenly viable on pretty much everyone. It seems core on everyone from jinx to kalista 0.0
On November 20 2015 20:11 padfoota wrote:
Yeah jesus christ I have to say pathing is super weird this game
On another note - I remember Azir's ulti can still push away a ragnarok'd Olaf no? Is it supposed to just pass through him -_-?
Don't believe it's changed. Isn't it just, Olaf can run through the first bit of the ult (where the wall is travelling and deals damage) but bounces off it after it's finished moving?
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On November 20 2015 20:14 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 19:25 padfoota wrote:On November 20 2015 19:22 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 19:14 padfoota wrote:On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes Triforce is that item you get after maxing 6 items and selling your boots for something better. Thats like...less than 1% of the games? TF isnt a bad item, its just that when competing with ER as a first item ER is so broken strong, and compared to other zeal items its too expensive. I've seen quite a few people go ER -> Triforce, 40% cdr off two items, with a sheen too. Feels like with the strength of tanks right now even people like lucian really need to go ER -> zeal item -> IE to have relevancy in the midgame though :s I definitely prefer ER -> TF. But it feels like if you cannot get this by 23 minutes there are basically better choices. On November 20 2015 19:22 Ketara wrote:
Since I've spent the last two weeks tunnel visioning on Lux math, somebody should explain the new ADC items to me. Kinda hard. Starting with the first item IE vs ER vs BotRK - IE got nerfed a bit, dropping to 65 AD, ER got a massive buff, gaining crit, 10% cdr and up to 20% extra cdr from other sources of crit, so total of 30% from this item (1:1 crit cdr ratio,) BotRK got nerfed a bit Nobody gets botrk first at all, and IE first is pretty bad. The starting item choices seem to be ER: on casters Shiv/Firecannon: on auto attackers, vayne goes both into ie, i've seen people like trist go shiv into ie Partial IE -> zeal -> IE: Like, bf sword + maybe pickaxe -> zeal -> ie -> shiv. Seems most common, you don't really get anything from actually finishing IE early, so it seems way more cost efficient to grab at least a zeal (I've seen bf+pickaxe -> shiv -> ie too) before finishing IE.
Hey botrk used to be a thing a couple weeks ago lol. I know no one gets it but Im updating the guy on items - and the massive nerf to BotRK is worth mentioning (Ok I realize I wrote "nerfed a bit"..probably should write "huge nerf"). I want to say IE first is bad, but people still argue over BF>pickaxe>zeal vs IE>zeal on cait.
http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Caitlyn
Actually nvm its IE rush then zeal now.
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The minion block christ, and now we got this lag after you kill them too so you can't instaclear and then keep going, your guy still wants to walk around the bodies -_-
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On November 20 2015 15:27 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 15:10 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 14:49 IMoperator wrote:On November 20 2015 13:51 killerdog wrote:On November 20 2015 12:32 IMoperator wrote:
ok I thought adc's were supposed to be good this patch, the only one I think is actually decent is MF. Game is even more toplane focused than it was pre preseason. Vayne lucian cait (up until yesterday graves) all wrecking face :o Vayne and Lucian feel exactly the same to me, Cait feels a little better but still has a terrible midgame because of awkward item builds. ?!? Vayne gets to go shiv -> firecannon as her first two items. That's completely insane burst on the first auto. Plus her w got a huge buff. Lucian can go essence reaver into zeal and have 30% cdr, and a bunch of crit off two items, then go ie and golden. As for why tanks have a higher winrate, that's just because not everyone are playing the op tops yet, but everyone is playing the op adc's. If cait/vayne/mf/lucian/graves are always laning against each other, they'll almost never get above 52-53% winrate, purely because for one to win the other has to lose. Meanwhile things like mundo/malphite/jax/shen get to lane against people still playing shit like darius)/vlad/aatrox/riven/whatever, so they don't have that limiter. Vayne's autos do shit for damage though, so unless you get super fed you're going to be critting for no damage after that first proc. Lucian feels about the same to me, haven't noticed anything that special yet. You're kinda forced to sell essence reaver later but it's pretty good for the early/mid game i guess. actually I want to add that in general it feels like adc's do less damage because of lack of ad, not just vayne
except vayne is much stronger than before like every other ad. Dont go fkn tri on lucian its garbage as any # item.
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On November 20 2015 15:21 krndandaman wrote:
whats sad is that riot tried to make triforce as good as possible for lucian but he still doesn't get it
who the hell gets triforce anymore
i've seen even jax,irelia skip at times. hell today I saw a corki skip it and go straight for the double zeal items
i feel like they should just revert the triforce changes
It's still better than it was before zzzz
The problem is 1) people love shiny new toys on a week-old preseason patch and 2) Guinsoo's and Firecannon/Shiv are stupid.
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Azir's ult isn't terrain, just a hitbox (also remember LoL is actually 2D mechanics-wise) that bounces back everything that touches its border. Olaf shouldn't be affected by it at all during his ult, be it the initial cast or remaining soldiers.
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On November 21 2015 01:19 Alaric wrote:
Azir's ult isn't terrain, just a hitbox (also remember LoL is actually 2D mechanics-wise) that bounces back everything that touches its border. Olaf shouldn't be affected by it at all during his ult, be it the initial cast or remaining soldiers.
League is 3d pls don't say dumb shit. If it was 2d how could ziggs ult be blocked or not by yasuo wall depending on where it is placed?
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I believe it simply leaves the map past some point? Rioters explicitly stated multiple times that they don't account for the Z-axis when checking positions, collisions and whether a skillshot hits someone.
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On November 21 2015 01:40 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 01:19 Alaric wrote:
Azir's ult isn't terrain, just a hitbox (also remember LoL is actually 2D mechanics-wise) that bounces back everything that touches its border. Olaf shouldn't be affected by it at all during his ult, be it the initial cast or remaining soldiers. League is 3d pls don't say dumb shit. If it was 2d how could ziggs ult be blocked or not by yasuo wall depending on where it is placed?
Technically it could be just a flag that makes the ziggs ult be out of bounds X ammount of time after throwing it and Y ammount of time before it hits the target. Sort of like Panth is out of map during his ult.
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On November 21 2015 01:49 Alaric wrote:
I believe it simply leaves the map past some point? Rioters explicitly stated multiple times that they don't account for the Z-axis when checking positions, collisions and whether a skillshot hits someone.
How many situations are there when it actually matters except braum or yasuo wall?
If you place it exactly behind the wall it will not work because it blocks the shot as it falls but otherwise it goes over.
The only thing that confuses me is how I have seen tristana jump over azir wall but everyone knows and even riot said her w was a dash.
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Is it still a dash after her rework though?
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On November 21 2015 01:40 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 01:19 Alaric wrote:
Azir's ult isn't terrain, just a hitbox (also remember LoL is actually 2D mechanics-wise) that bounces back everything that touches its border. Olaf shouldn't be affected by it at all during his ult, be it the initial cast or remaining soldiers. League is 3d pls don't say dumb shit. If it was 2d how could ziggs ult be blocked or not by yasuo wall depending on where it is placed?
because it drops on to xy coordinates without traveling the distance between.
if you want to test the z axis thing, have tristana try to jump over a morgana Q. you still get hit. there is no z axis in this game.
the game is 3d graphics played in a 2d space.
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Techincally there are no jumps in league of legends. Everything that isn't a blink is considered a dash. It is kinda stupid in reality. Kinda like how jax e used to block random stuff but now they remade it so it is consistent.
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On November 21 2015 02:45 nafta wrote:
Techincally there are no jumps in league of legends. Everything that isn't a blink is considered a dash. It is kinda stupid in reality. Kinda like how jax e used to block random stuff but now they remade it so it is consistent.
the reason that this is true is because there is no 3rd dimension in terms of game logic. it is purely visual
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On November 21 2015 02:45 nafta wrote:
Techincally there are no jumps in league of legends. Everything that isn't a blink is considered a dash. It is kinda stupid in reality. Kinda like how jax e used to block random stuff but now they remade it so it is consistent.
Best way to test it is to get a Veigar and see if the champion in question can jump over the baby cage. Would have thought that was a good idea. Speaking of that, with the stats that I use for rankup.gg and it's pool of games currently in the mix, Veigar has only a 41% winrate so he's pretty much in the shit right now.
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warding is such a headache in this patch. as support u are constantly out of wards and with them only lasting 150 sec and 3 charges u have to go back all the time. they should make sightstone refilling on wards on the field too. i am starting to think i should sit on yellow trinket as support to have a least some emergency ward for objectives or even go for blue trinket. sweeping feels kinda useless right now for how long the wards are staying on the map and clearing pinks dont need red trinket.
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You're probably a bit spoiled now, remember the bad old days without sightstone where supports had to start triple wards or something?
Actually, those days were fun. I used to run eve + TF and we'd win because other team would be broke as shit from wards and we'd get super rich
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who needs wards when u have blue trinket, its basically unlimited pink ward u can cast from half the map, recently i spectated Korean games and 8 out of 10 people had blue trinkets lol
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I frequently stick with the yellow trinket until I can upgrade my sightstone. Blue might be even better though.
Another annoying support change is that you often need a pink ward spot lategame, so the slot inefficiency of support item + sight stone really hurts. The support item + sightstone combos make no sense most of the time. Notable exceptions: Karma and maybe Sona, because they have aoe speed spells and don't need Talisman that badly.
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I upgrade to blue but regularly remind my teammates that my trinket can't allow TPs, so somebody's got to hold onto a ward if we have a splitpusher (or someone defending a splitpush) with TP.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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United States11390 Posts
Frost Queen's Claim is amazing though now, the 4 second slow on spooky ghost is sooo good.
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I just think with the way they are going with vision that Riot should either shrink the map and cut out all of it except pinks, or enlarge the map if they like this amount of warding.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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Considering it is preseason and how not tryhard soloq is warding in general is overrated. Putting so much priority on the gold ss is stupid.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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How is it not a meaningfull choice? You get a shitty item that gives you more vision or you have less vision and try to use it better so you can get actual items instead. Seems like an actual choice to me.
Well back in the day you didn't get any items other than gold items to fund your wards and oracle. Some people prefer that style of supporting. Having both options seems pretty good to me.
Also you get a lot more gold as a support overall in this new season. Dunno how can you just overlook that.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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You are complaining about having to sacrifice being strong for the team on support???
I dont understand your point. You are complaining that you are weaker and you can't carry yet say you are talking about competetive.
Nobody buys items on support in competetive already. How would this change anything? In fact with the increased gold gain this season I expect supports to get a lot more items compared to before.
Also with being unable to buy sight wards expect to see a lot more early gold item upgrades which never happened in last season and would increase gold gain even more.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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Main reason games last so short is because it is preseason though. You can't just ignore that fact. The meta certainly matters as well but that fact just changes everything.
Maybe I am biased because I always thought that sighstone was too good and now it feels like you have to have some brain cells to properly vision control. I expect ruby sighstone to be the item that everyone goes for because regen isn't really all that useful with the new masteries and as a bonus it works better with getting active items.
Also sighstone not being as good helps because now junglers can't just spend 800 gold for infinite wards. This change was more made for the jungle than support overall imo.
The fact that you could ward all 3 standart paths of ganks after you buy sighstone then the other guy clears one and you just place the next ward is super cheap and stupid imo.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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If we are talking about soloq how good the other guy is at warding isn't even close to the only thing that matters. I would even say it doesn't matter too much.
What is your teamcomp? Different teams need different amount( or need multiple pinks over regular wards) of vision.
What jungler do you have? Some junglers are going to be getting the ward smite and keeping the yellow trinket just to cover for you being a weak warder like brand so you can focus on other stuff.
What type of threats does the enemy have?
More wards are not as needed as you make it out to be if you properly ward. If you are the only person warding it is worse yes but it is the same for the other team.
In competetive I am not sure how it will go because the game is such a clown fiesta with the preseason and rageblade still in the game but after some more changes it should get to a good spot.
I definitely agree the sighstone upgrades are boring but they are practical in some situations which I think is fine.
The game having less vision overall unless everyone tries doing it is good. Let's be real league has always had a problem with vision being too easy to get. Although the new blue trinket really needs some nerfs.
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Mozambique16569 Posts
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I think you guys are missing the intended cases of the Eye items entirely.
If you do a gold efficiency to stats comparison, they have near literally the same stats as the completed support items for the same gold, just without the active. You can check out the Lux thread for an analysis of that.
What you're doing is trading the active for more slot efficiency.
There's two cases where you might do this.
The first is when you're fed on support and want to take a selfish build. This is probably a better option for AP supports like Brand than it is for tanks, and it is a meaningful choice because you have to choose slot efficiency over stat efficiency and one is not necessarily more correct than the other.
The more interesting case for getting an Eye item is if you're not a support.
Look at the eye items on a jungle Nunu, or a top lane split pusher, or even on a utility mid like Lulu and you'll see a lot of opportunity to change playstyle or even team strategy. If your jungle Nunu is running Trackers smite and your mid lane Lulu is running Eye of the Watchers, suddenly your support Brand doesn't really need to build a Sightstone at all and can build Dark Seal and Haunting Guise and just shit on the enemy duo.
If your top lane duellist runs ignite and gets an eye item + blue trinket, he can turn his chosen split push lane into a Christmas tree while building to outduel people. Think about Eye of the Equinox on like, ghost flash Vladimir. That is some cancerous split pushing right there.
I'm not gonna say the Eye items are perfect, they may need to be tweaked a little. But when I first saw them I definitely didn't think they were items for support.
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On November 21 2015 16:56 Ketara wrote:
I think you guys are missing the intended cases of the Eye items entirely.
If you do a gold efficiency to stats comparison, they have near literally the same stats as the completed support items for the same gold, just without the active. You can check out the Lux thread for an analysis of that.
What you're doing is trading the active for more slot efficiency.
There's two cases where you might do this.
The first is when you're fed on support and want to take a selfish build. This is probably a better option for AP supports like Brand than it is for tanks, and it is a meaningful choice because you have to choose slot efficiency over stat efficiency and one is not necessarily more correct than the other.
The more interesting case for getting an Eye item is if you're not a support.
Look at the eye items on a jungle Nunu, or a top lane split pusher, or even on a utility mid like Lulu and you'll see a lot of opportunity to change playstyle or even team strategy. If your jungle Nunu is running Trackers smite and your mid lane Lulu is running Eye of the Watchers, suddenly your support Brand doesn't really need to build a Sightstone at all and can build Dark Seal and Haunting Guise and just shit on the enemy duo.
If your top lane duellist runs ignite and gets an eye item + blue trinket, he can turn his chosen split push lane into a Christmas tree while building to outduel people. Think about Eye of the Equinox on like, ghost flash Vladimir. That is some cancerous split pushing right there.
I'm not gonna say the Eye items are perfect, they may need to be tweaked a little. But when I first saw them I definitely didn't think they were items for support.
That's you discounting that this patch mid game power spikes are so meaningful that there is no way you would sac that for an eye. There are champions that can literally buy guinsoos and just straight up go to town.
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That's just a product of preseason and wont continue. Talking about it is a little silly. Be patient.
Remember Relic Shields?
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On November 21 2015 18:27 Ketara wrote:
That's just a product of preseason and wont continue. Talking about it is a little silly. Be patient.
Remember Relic Shields?
Or Cleavers.
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On November 21 2015 18:27 Ketara wrote:
That's just a product of preseason and wont continue. Talking about it is a little silly. Be patient.
Remember Relic Shields?
Relic Shields was a day one wonder that everyone caught on to right away. If you were playing the game right now, you'd realize that Eye items are no where close to that effect. You do not know how fast games are ending and how fast pushes occur. If anything is a little silly, it's the theorycrafting on this idea when actual gameplay experience would dictate the exact opposite.
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On November 21 2015 16:56 Ketara wrote:
I think you guys are missing the intended cases of the Eye items entirely.
No we're not.
We're saying "that item is obviously a slot efficiency thing, pity no game goes past 3 items."
It's not like there's one clear gimmick that's making games end faster, just all the changes combined each made games slightly faster, to the point where right now, if you get a triple kill at 12 minutes, getting inhib tower is a very real possibility.
This is definitely one of those cases where however you try and theory craft, the reality of the game is just that unless they make very drastic changes to game pacing, it's a completely worthless item.
If anything's silly, it's trying to make the discussion about some theoretical game state which is nothing like what the game is actually like right now, and it's only going to get worse if the minion changes go through.
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What I mean is that I don't think they're items for supports, and you guys are only talking about them in terms of support itemization.
And I don't think I compared them to preseason Relic shield, kissblade? I compared rageblade to it.
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If you don't think they're items for supports, then it's even sillier to think they'd be items better suited for non supports in this current patch cycle.
Similarly, if you're comparing Rageblade to Relic Shield (in which your response was rather ambiguous to interpret in the first place), then that's rather silly since Rageblade is nowhere as nebulous as Relic Shield was. It's simply an example of an item that gives a very real powerspike as opposed to buying a worthless laning item like Eye for a jungle/solo laner slot.
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What I mean is more that rageblade will obviously be nerfed. It's already nerfed on pbe.
Again I'm not saying the eye items are great. I think they could probably use slight tweaks.
But saying they are useless because other play is currently blatantly overpowered is strange, because the blatantly overpowered play is blatantly going to get nerfed inside of the next patch or two.
If they added 20 AD to longsword, that would make longsword overpowered, but it wouldn't mean pickaxe is a bad item. Sure it would be in an immediate sense, but not after really obvious changes occur.
Basically don't worry, be happy.
Doo doo doo doo da doo da doo da doo da doo.
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Your argument is rapidly devolving into, "any item could be good because items better than it will be nerfed". I think talking about that is a little silly.
Again, it bears repeating that Rageblade is only ONE example of a power spike off one item.
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Also with the way new trinkets work, there's not really any incentive for even support to rush out a sightstone, and getting it at all on a jungler (or a laner, lol) is pretty useless.
Not to mention how blue trinkets have changed lategame vision entirely.
Unless you're suggesting a top laner will buy it lategame as his 4th/5th item, and that would be a whole new level of dumb :p, I don't see any point where anyone would want to buy one of these items.
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Whoever thought buffing healers AND allowing others to heal through ignite and other similar debuffs should be fucking arrested for causing mass cancer
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Not gonna lie ketara your idea of how the upgraded sightstones should be used is some of the stupidest things I have heard and clearly posted by someone who hasn't played a single game on the new patch.
Also those items are never slot efficient. When you get to the point where you have 3 items+sighstone you have to sell your gold item so you can buy pinks or just keep the active gold item over getting others. It pretty much never comes into play on this role. By the time you become full build you stop needing gold generation so it doesn't make sense to keep it either.
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It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all.
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On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all.
Just so you're aware, the eyes are built out of support items and riot did say they were meant to give support meaningful choices.
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There's nothing on earth LoL people are more stubborn about than item choices. Literally nothing. You could stop flame wars more easily than you could convince someone that Talisman is not the most necessary item in the game.
Also, game pacing isn't actually that difficult to change (it's mostly just a matter of structure health, level and average gold income per stat gained. They just changed all that at once and didn't adjust structure health accordingly/properly), both tank and caster supports could get more real items if the games were longer, sightstones will be bought in more positions before preseason is over (probably top because the relic shield one is a fantastic item low-econ and super tanks will come back in a big way competitively), and none of this stuff has been tested competitively, where support itemization, game pacing, and vision are *vastly* different, so maybe don't declare stuff a complete failure until then, huh.
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On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all.
Except since their components include gold gen items you are suggesting a splitpusher or a mid laner invest gold into gold gen and more wards which makes absolutely no sense.
Why would I think riot are going to change every one of those items, how tanky towers are and change the gold generation? All of those are experimental changes that are still being tested out. They could decide to take a completely different approach.
After the rageblade nerfs I definitely agree the tanks are gonna be back though. Also I don't feel like gold items are needed. Just get bandit. It gives you 10 gold per 5 in 1v1 tank matchups. Done that a few times it is cray.
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On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all.
If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore...
Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.>
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Also something I realized a while ago that was really funny is that I really wish the old zeke's was back in the game. Now that every ad goes shiv>cannon>ie or er>shiv>ie the lifesteal aura would be so good with how often you have more than 1 person who could use it AND you get more gold income so you can buy it much easier. The 50% crit is basically trash tier now. Who would've thought....
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On November 22 2015 00:03 nafta wrote:
Also something I realized a while ago that was really funny is that I really wish the old zeke's was back in the game. Now that every ad goes shiv>cannon>ie or er>shiv>ie the lifesteal aura would be so good with how often you have more than 1 person who could use it AND you get more gold income so you can buy it much easier. The 50% crit is basically trash tier now. Who would've thought....
Taric the new hidden op :p
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On November 21 2015 20:33 KissBlade wrote:
Your argument is rapidly devolving into, "any item could be good because items better than it will be nerfed". I think talking about that is a little silly.
Again, it bears repeating that Rageblade is only ONE example of a power spike off one item.
Heavily agree but in the same time if he has insight to understand that if an item is making such a champion OP and with a nerf to that item, nerfing many of champions in the same time, if one knows what the next best thing is in result of the nerf to an item, that's pretty good but you'd need to explain the whole process to justify the claim.
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On November 21 2015 23:21 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore... Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.>
Does seem a lot of wards can still be used early for lanes which doesn't have a support.
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On November 22 2015 00:50 Coldbolt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 23:21 killerdog wrote:On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore... Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.> Does seem a lot of wards can still be used early for lanes which doesn't have a support.
The problem is if you drop 1k gold on non combat stats, congrats the jungler won't touch you, but the enemy laner will just oneshot you because he has 1k more gold worth of stats.
If i could just magically have an eye item for free then of course i'd love it, but there's absolutely no way any position could get away with buying one without it definitely costing them their lane, and likely the game as a result.
Like even just buying the actual support items (fotm, spooky ghosts etc) would be infinitely more viable then getting the warding item...
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That's why I think the Eye items maybe need more stats on them.
Like, if you compare eye of the Equinox (probably the best one IMO, tanks can justify grabbing a 500 hp item pretty easy) to FotM, they're pretty similar, but FotM has CDR on it.
But if the stats on them are too good there'll be no reason for supports to not take them. So its sort of a careful balancing act.
I wouldn't be surprised if they get small stat buffs, but I don't think they'll get big ones.
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The Eye items are there for 2 things, which are either getting a quick first item powerspike on supports or getting more wards on a jungler.
The items aren't good enough for the first option and since on this patch junglers dont need extra ward sources the item's stats aren't good enough for the second option either.
Originally I was really excited on it for Rammus, but then I saw it didn't give CDR or the active so I had no reason to pick it up anymore.
Literally getting sightstone + FotM is just the superior option, selling sightstone at 6 items.
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Give them more stats, make the non-Talisman actives better.
I'm talking really marginal stuff though. There's not 1k gold difference in combat stats (and sure as hell not enough to get one-shot), it's more like 20cs or so worth. If it had 600 health, I *guarantee* Mundo and similar tanks would buy it in competitive.
The problem with the AP one is it's a terribly inefficient combo of stats (just throw away the regen and give it CDR or AP), and the Talisman one just plain shouldn't exist because nobody will ever buy it.
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Yeah the talisman eye is only good on Soraka.
Eye of the Watchers has a problem where it gives mana Regen but not CDR, and its hard to find builds that want that because your CDR item already has mana Regen and not many champions want two mana Regen items.
So they either need to drop some of the Regen and add more AP, or they need to give it CDR.
Eye of the Equinox I think is actually pretty good on tanks though. It's just competing with Face of the Mountain which, as it turns out, is still OP.
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On November 22 2015 01:30 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 00:50 Coldbolt wrote:On November 21 2015 23:21 killerdog wrote:On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote:
It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both.
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty.
Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore... Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.> Does seem a lot of wards can still be used early for lanes which doesn't have a support. The problem is if you drop 1k gold on non combat stats, congrats the jungler won't touch you, but the enemy laner will just oneshot you because he has 1k more gold worth of stats. If i could just magically have an eye item for free then of course i'd love it, but there's absolutely no way any position could get away with buying one without it definitely costing them their lane, and likely the game as a result. Like even just buying the actual support items (fotm, spooky ghosts etc) would be infinitely more viable then getting the warding item...
Right so basically it's about getting pink wards now and then sightstone when you leave the laning phase it seems. Fair does.
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Today I witnessed the power what is Teemo! Rageblade and Gunblade seem really stupid right now and ADc probably should fear him if he can get in range.
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Bandit is so busted for top lane. Jeez us.
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Annndd I think it's bugged cause just had a game where it didn't seem to proc at all after I got a first blood ...
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On November 23 2015 14:11 JimmiC wrote:
Bonds of stone vs grasp of the undieing. I've been using the bonds with mumu jungle and the grasp with mundo jungle is this right? Whats the math, such logic on these two?
I use grasp on tanky fucks that I want to deal damage with and Bonds with pure tanks that I just want to take punishment with.
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On November 23 2015 14:11 JimmiC wrote:
Bonds of stone vs grasp of the undieing. I've been using the bonds with mumu jungle and the grasp with mundo jungle is this right? Whats the math, such logic on these two?
It's not really a math thing.
It depends on whether or not you want to deal more damage (grasp), take less damage (middle one), or make allies take less damage (bond)
Although if your build is mostly HP items grasp probably makes you tankier than the middle one anyway. That you could math.
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Did it, you need around 4.1k-4.2k HP (after accounting for the 300 bonus HP) for Bonds to beat it, assuming there's an ally nearby (it's a lot weaker if it's only 2%).
%HP damage tends to make Bonds better I think (hunch, didn't check), and if you lose flat HP equal to 8% of the damage taken post-resistances by your nearby ally, then Bond can be a lot worse for personal survivability.
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Guys, I totally misread Grasp the first time. I thought it was every fourth auto for some reason, it's looking alot better than SotA to me now, if by "next attack" they mean any damage, not just autos.
Because if you're a tank you ought to have 3000+ hp in any teamfight, and as long as you stay in the fight for more than 12 seconds (3 procs, 3*3% = ~10% = ~300hp) you'll have earned the 300hp from SotA AND you'll do 300hp more damage.
Does anyone know if Grasp starts at 0 or 4 seconds in combat? The text seems to imply the latter.
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On November 23 2015 19:09 Alaric wrote:
Did it, you need around 4.1k-4.2k HP (after accounting for the 300 bonus HP) for Bonds to beat it, assuming there's an ally nearby (it's a lot weaker if it's only 2%).
%HP damage tends to make Bonds better I think (hunch, didn't check), and if you lose flat HP equal to 8% of the damage taken post-resistances by your nearby ally, then Bond can be a lot worse for personal survivability.
That's not really how it works...
Yes you're taking less damage, but you're also absorbing damage from your ally, who is likely less tanky, being focused more, and taking more damage than you.
So 8% of the damage he is taking that's being sent to you is probably equal or higher than 8% of the damage you're reducing.
That's not bad mind. If you're Amumu and your dive buddy is Fiora or Riven, its probably awesome and super worth.
But bond doesn't really make you tankier. It makes your teammates tankier.
I would imagine it makes you take more damage than you would otherwise, or about the same amount depending on whose resistances get used for the absorbed damage.
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On November 23 2015 19:26 Osmoses wrote:
Guys, I totally misread Grasp the first time. I thought it was every fourth auto for some reason, it's looking alot better than SotA to me now, if by "next attack" they mean any damage, not just autos.
Because if you're a tank you ought to have 3000+ hp in any teamfight, and as long as you stay in the fight for more than 12 seconds (3 procs, 3*3% = ~10% = ~300hp) you'll have earned the 300hp from SotA AND you'll do 300hp more damage.
Does anyone know if Grasp starts at 0 or 4 seconds in combat? The text seems to imply the latter.
By next attack, they mean autos. It starts at 4 seconds in combat.
You'll get 3 procs in 12 seconds during a teamfight if you can auto the moment grasp is up, which is not garanteed at all. I feel the mastery is strong in top lane since you can charge it up while last hitting. I think the other keystones are stronger on junglers.
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I didn't realize it doesn't start till 4 seconds in combat.
That plus resistances reducing the heal makes it likely worse than strength of ages for tankiness regardless of HP, unless were talking really long fights.
You can't assume 3 procs in 12 seconds, 3 procs probably takes a good 15 seconds. Even with 4000 HP, if the enemy has normal MR 3 procs is likely less than 300 HP.
Strength of ages also likely gets to 300 HP much earlier than grasp becomes a big healing skill for end build teamfights.
So its probably pretty simple.
Want damage? Grasp of undying.
Want tankiness for yourself? Strength of Ages.
Want tankiness for an ally? Bond of stone.
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If Grasp started at 0 seconds it'd be absurd for harass in lane. Well, since "combat" means dealing or taking damage you can try and prep it with minions then go and trade (new E on-hit+Grasp explains a lot of Mundo's damage in early laning), but it's not as simple as a potshot.
And Bond gives you 8% damage reduction at all times when an ally is nearby, so you can use it to absorb poke for example, especially if you have sustain or a shield, it depends on who the closest ally is (if it's Alistar who's 2 pixels closer than your Ashe, then blah).
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Strength of ages is a little odd though. I'm not sure who would really have a strength of ages wetdream fantasy.
Like, if you're going 18 resolve, you probably want to be tanky right.
And in League, if you're building really tanky, having a mastery that gives you lane damage (grasp) is probably better than an extra 300 HP.
And when you're tanky, tankiness for allies is often more worth than tankiness for yourself. Locket and FotM are pretty fucking good.
I feel like strength of ages would be strong on a champion who wants defensive masteries, but then doesn't really build defensive items. Not sure who that would be. It's also almost certainly better on junglers than laners.
It is possible though that strength of ages has a strong powerspike moment vs the other two when it approaches 300 HP. That might be cool for some constructed team comps?
It's also potentially good on champs who do extra damage the more HP they have, like Sejuani.
I dunno, I am brainstorming.
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Ketara, where are you getting that Grasp is affected by MR? It doesn't say magic damage anywhere, just "steals".
edit: wikia also says magic damage, guess that's it then. Void staff on sion inc.
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I mean I just assumed it worked like BotRK.
Imagine how fun top lane will be when it's Sion vs Malphite taking Grasp, Meditation and Bandit on 0/12/18 and the lane is just the two hugging every 5 seconds and then eventually teleporting to dragon with insane gold and seeing who gets a quadra first.
If that happens and you guys don't use my "grasp of bullshit" term I'll be sad.
Although to be fair, when I called it grasp of bullshit I didn't know you had to wait 4s for the first hit. You can see why I thought it was overpowered.
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On November 23 2015 20:14 Ketara wrote:
And in League, if you're building really tanky, having a mastery that gives you lane damage (grasp) is probably better than an extra 300 HP.
And when you're tanky, tankiness for allies is often more worth than tankiness for yourself. Locket and FotM are pretty fucking good.
I feel like strength of ages would be strong on a champion who wants defensive masteries, but then doesn't really build defensive items. Not sure who that would be. It's also almost certainly better on junglers than laners.
As I see it strength of ages' main bonus is opening up alternate build paths. It seems to peak at around 1.5-2 item timing for top laners, so if you're someone who likes building an early frozen heart or abyssal or thornmail or whatever other flat resistance item, then the 300 extra hp rounds out your build for the early teamfights, and makes you have a much stronger midgame then you otherwise would.
Not sure who actually benefits from that, but I'd assume people like malphite or rammus might love it.
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I've started noticing that with Grasp of undying so strong, Shen is pretty strong top and going a thornmail makes him seem very hard to kill. He survives whilst kills you and you can't hit him back without you fearing you killing yourself. Liking this.
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On November 23 2015 23:54 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 20:14 Ketara wrote:
And in League, if you're building really tanky, having a mastery that gives you lane damage (grasp) is probably better than an extra 300 HP.
And when you're tanky, tankiness for allies is often more worth than tankiness for yourself. Locket and FotM are pretty fucking good.
I feel like strength of ages would be strong on a champion who wants defensive masteries, but then doesn't really build defensive items. Not sure who that would be. It's also almost certainly better on junglers than laners.
As I see it strength of ages' main bonus is opening up alternate build paths. It seems to peak at around 1.5-2 item timing for top laners, so if you're someone who likes building an early frozen heart or abyssal or thornmail or whatever other flat resistance item, then the 300 extra hp rounds out your build for the early teamfights, and makes you have a much stronger midgame then you otherwise would. Not sure who actually benefits from that, but I'd assume people like malphite or rammus might love it.
FH, Abyssal and Thornmail aren't pure tank items, they're mixed tank+damage items. So that's consistent with my brainstorming.
I wonder if strength of ages would let me go Cinderhulk>FH on Sejuani.
Then again, games probably end too fast ATM for sejuani to be any good.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/ljhLh/8f9ad33c78.png)
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