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Baa?21242 Posts
International tournaments are something of a rarity these days, a fact often bemoaned by avid followers of the professional scene. Outside of World’s, we are limited to All-Star’s and a handful of independent tournaments. The scarcity of international tournaments creates the perennial debate on the relative strength of different regions. While reasonable minds have come to accept Korea as the undisputed top dog, room for debate remains about near everything else. NA vs. EU is a fan favorite, and whether China has a real chance against Korea is always a contender whenever international tournaments come around.
I hazard to suggest, however, that this is a poor way of looking at these international tournaments. Indeed, keener minds have long since been aware of this – League of Legends is not a competition between regions, but rather a competition between separate teams and individual players. This time last year, Riot framed the All-Stars tournament as a cross-region battle royale, offering a coveted extra spot at World’s for the winning region. National and regional pride was on the line, and the rosters were comprised of players from different teams. The shift in how we think about tournaments is reflected in how Riot chose to format the All-Stars tournament this time around: we have the complete opposite of last year’s format. No longer is it Team Korea vs. Team China and Team Europe vs. Team North America, but rather five separate teams competing nominally for their region but really for themselves. The story is certainly tied to regional pride, but at the most basic level, it’s a showdown between teams: OMG and SKT finally get a chance to continue their 1-1 series from World’s to see who’s on top; Cloud 9 will have the opportunity to avenge themselves of the multiple losses to Fnatic; TPA would like to see if they can still compete at the apex of the world stage. These storylines, in my opinion, overshadow that of a cross-region showdown.
I confess the way I’ve set up the region-team dichotomy is simplified, but the full scope of that discussion is not within this article. For now, I will simply content myself to an overview of the five teams that will be present at the 2014 All-Star’s. The unfortunate side-effect of regional tournament is that it’s quite difficult for someone to follow most of the five major leagues through time zone differences and work/life schedules. Fortunately for you, I’m here to offer up my humble opinion after following these teams over the course of the spring 2014 season.
For those who are unaware, the All-Stars format will be a five team round robin, with each team facing off against every other team. The lowest scoring team will be eliminated, and the remaining four teams will be placed in a single elimination bracket. We are guaranteed to see every match-up at least once.
The first section will be a simple review of the background and recent performances of these teams, and the second section will be my not-at-all-controversial rankings. The first section will be a bore for those of you who already follow these teams, but hopefully it gives some context to teams from regions that you have not followed. Presented in alphabetical order...
Cloud 9
Cloud 9 is, by far, the strongest team in North America. The 3-0 dismantling of their closest competitor, TSM, in the 2014 NA LCS Spring Playoffs has shown their S3 performance was not a fluke. Their reign as the kings of NA is closing on the one year mark, but they have met with very little of that same success on the world stage.
The first time we saw C9 in an international tournament was at the S3 World Championships. Riot’s disappointing tournament format also meant we saw very little of them as they were dispatched by Fnatic in 3 games of the Ro8 Bo3. C9 avenged themselves by claiming a 2-0 victory over Fnatic in the Battle of the Atlantic, but as what was essentially a showmatch, that victory did little to convince me of C9’s resilience to international opposition, especially in light of their early exit from IEM Cologne in a 0-2 defeat to Gambit the previous month. Their fourth and most recent foray onto the international stage was met once again with a defeat at the hands of Fnatic, spelling out a troubling trend of falling to European competition.
It is surprising to realize that these are the only times we saw Cloud 9 compete on a world stage. Even more astonishingly, C9 has faced only Gambit and Fnatic in series play. A pair of one game sets against clueless WE and outclassed TPA at IEM Katowice notwithstanding, C9 has been exposed to only a single region outside of NA. Compared to the rest of the teams at this All-Star tournament, it is safe to say C9 holds the least international experience. OMG and SKT, who have played in similarly few international tournaments, have the benefit of group stage play experience at S3 World’s, and Fnatic and TPA are no strangers to large international tournaments in their ancient histories.
For C9 more than any other team, this will be a chance to test themselves for the first time against the best that the rest of the world has to offer. In interviews and social media communications following the NA LCS Playoffs, C9 expressed their commitment to making a good showing at All-Stars, and definitely had their sights on being a top contender.
Unfortunately for both C9 and the audience, C9 will be unable to demonstrate their full strength with Hai suffering a collapsed lung at the most inopportune time for the team. Though Link is a very capable player in his own right, Hai’s central position as the leading playmaker and shotcaller for C9 means that we will be unable to see C9 perform at their top potential. With international tournaments so few and far in-between, it would appear that we might have to wait until the S4 World Championships before we can see C9 with their full roster.
Fnatic
Fnatic is a magical team. They started the Spring 2014 EU LCS season 7-0, and immediately followed it up with a 0-8. A question mark until the very end of regular season, Fnatic somehow managed to finish second and proceeded to bring home the Playoffs, taking out regular season 1st place finisher SK. Rational minds have long since abandoned hope of making sense of the EU scene, where any team is capable of beating any other team until the very end, with Fnatic’s eventual victory through a twisted and bumpy road being the only certainty. It is unclear to this observer whether it speaks to Fnatic’s inanity or to their capability.
In the end, it is yet again Fnatic rising as the champions of EU. In terms of international performance, Fnatic fell to Royal 1-3 in the Ro4 at S3 World’s, took second at IEM Cologne after a 0-2 against Gambit a couple months later, collapsed unspectacularly to C9 in the aforementioned Battle of the Atlantic, and took home a second IEM silver at Katowice with a 0-3 to KT Bullets. For Fnatic, the downside of showing up to so many international tournaments is the equal number of eventual defeats.
Fnatic’s core advantage will be that of a strong, stable roster with considerable international experience behind them. As they have demonstrated time and time again, league style regular seasons are not their forte, but rather their ability to analyze and prepare against specific matchups in bracket tournaments. Though this strength will be somewhat mitigated by the need to play a round robin stage before the playoff bracket, Fnatic has historically been able to make it to, and be a contender in, the playoff brackets.
OMG
In addition to having by far the best team name, OMG (yes it really does stand for Oh My God) comes in as one of the few teams to have come out even against SKT K. Continuing their S3 dominance of LPL, OMG sits once again on top of the regular season, with a clear score differential separating them from 2nd place EDG and 3rd place WE. At the beginning of the season, Cool’s departure from the main roster due to health issues was met with great concern, and replacement Xiyang had very large shoes to fill. To the pleasant surprise of OMG fans, Xiyang proved more than capable, quickly asserting himself as one of the most gifted players in the league, often creating solo kills or exerting roam pressure in the laning phase and helping propel the rest of OMG to victory. His position on top of the LPL MVP rankings reflects his impact.
OMG has been absent from international competition after S3 World’s, with the exception of the little covered (at least in the west) showing at WCG, where they dispatched amateur teams with ease, beat down countrymen WE in the semifinals, but fell to CJ Blaze in the finals. Worth noting is that they were at the time playing with a substitute bot lane, Namei/Sicca on loan from PE, replacing the San/pomelo combination. After WCG, OMG did a slight roster adjustment, moving Lovelin back to support (where he was originally before switching to jungle and leaving a good impression at S3 World’s) and bigpomelo to the jungle again.
In lieu of international tournaments, OMG occasionally plays in Chinese LAN tournaments that supplement LPL in the Chinese professional scene. The most recent of these, concluded earlier this week, was IET, which saw OMG advance past WE in a close 2-1 series, 2-0 iG, and end up defeated in an upset 0-2, giving the victory to EDG in the finals. While not the biggest issue in the grand schemes of things, OMG has shown that despite their 4-0 record over EDG in regular season, bracket play is another beast altogether. In this sense, their performance is a mirror of Fnatic’s in terms of comfort with different formats, since they have dropped bracket stage tournaments after dominating regular season play before as well.
Much more troubling for OMG is the possibility that their star mid laner Xiyang was denied a visa to Paris. Though currently in the process of reapplying, it is quite possible that Cool will be on the line-up. His absence from the roster has taken its toll on him, and in the only two games he played (vs. iG, in a throwaway series of little import at the end of the season), he has looked weak and inconsistent, and is certainly a step down from Xiyang. He has the experience of playing on the world stage to his advantage, and OMG was prepared to bring him to Paris even before the visa issues, and it will be interesting to see how he performs in a major tournament after a long absence.
**Update: It would appear that Xiyang’s Paris visa was approved, so he will most likely be the one playing after all.
SKT T1 K
SKT K arrives at the All-Stars off the back of the circuit point system in Korea, where teams accumulate points for their placements in the OGN Champions and NLB tournaments. Whereas all four of the other teams qualified through being the victors of the spring regular season (OMG) or spring playoffs (C9, Fnatic, TPA), SKT K’s entrance is actually quite far removed from their current performance.
I will presume that if you cared to enough to read this article, you are familiar with SKT K’s S3 performance. They haven’t participated in any international tournaments since, so results over the past months are limited to OGN Winter 2013 – 2014, OGN Spring 2014, and OGN Master’s. OGN Winter saw them settle into their role as world champions, going through the entire tournament without losing a single game. With back-to-back Champions victories sandwiching S3 World’s, SKT was by far the most successful team in the history of League of Legends up to that point. There was no reason to doubt their strong performance coming into Champions 2014.
The impossible, of course, finds a way to become reality. Mandu, due to health issues, stepped down from the main roster at the beginning of the season, and was replaced by Casper. Though SKT K took a win against Prime Optimus and a tie against SKT S with Casper, they switched back Mandu prior to their match against KT Arrows. Following a stunning 0-2 defeat, SKT K was on the verge of elimination. Prime Optimus’ miraculous 2-0 victory over SKT S gave SKT K a tie breaker opportunity against their sister team, and SKT K managed to squeeze through to the Ro8. There, Pawn, leading Samsung Ozone, avenged himself against Faker, and a 1-3 defeat signaled SKT K’s exit from Champions Spring 2014. Their woes did not end there, as they were immediately eliminated from the NLB as well by CJ Frost in another 1-3 defeat. Over the course of two weeks, SKT K dropped two Bo5s in convincing fashion, with Mandu looking rusty, Bengi and Impact regressing, Piglet powerless, and Faker the only one to show a semblance of competence.
SKT K competes against some of the strongest teams in the world on a regular basis, and it is quite possible that their lackluster performance in OGN and NLB will not transfer to the All-Stars, but their opponents will certainly be looking at this as a chance for them to finally unseat SKT K from their thrones. Though uneasy lies the head that wears the crown, SKT K is certainly not looking to pass off said crown any time soon, and will of course be looking to assert themselves against the competition.
Taipei Assassins
The S2 World Champions are a far cry from their 2012 selves, with only a single member (Bebe) remaining of the championship winning squad. Absent from S3 World’s, we’ve only seen TPA play in the GPL for most of the past year, though they’ve managed to do decently for themselves there. The 2014 GPL Spring Playoffs ended with a nail-biter 3-2 victory for TPA over Ahq in five long games. TPA was not at the top of the regular season, and many viewed their eventual victory as an upset over the stronger-on-paper Ahq squad.
Though doubtless a top GPL team, TPA has been quite absent from the international scene for most of the past year. IEM Singapore saw them make an early exit with a 0-2 defeat to the Saigon Jokers in the first round, and IEM Katowice saw them fail to advance past the group stage. It is accurate to say that they have long since fallen off the radar as a serious world contender.
In the GPL off season, TPA made a roster adjustment, benching Dinter and bringing in Winds from their sister squad, Taipei Snipers, who were eliminated in the GPL Summer 2014 Taiwan qualifiers. Prior to his run with the Taipei Snipers, you may remember Winds as the jungler of the Gamania Bears, the SEA representative at S3 World’s who had the misfortune of meeting SKT K in their only series of the tournament, losing 0-2. Dinter has long been identified as an underperforming member of TPA, and it will be interesting to see if Winds can help TPA recapture some of their former glory. It will no doubt be a difficult test for Winds, who will face his first tournament with a new team at All-Stars, which in a world with few international tournaments, is shaping up to be one of the most important titles of the year.
On another note, TPA also brought in Chawy, star player of the Singapore Sentinels, to be part of a rotating 6-man roster as a mid/support sub. Chawy will not, however, be playing with TPA at All-Stars, and will have to wait for GPL Summer 2014 before he makes his TPA debut. His acquisition does signal that TPA is still serious about trying to improve their team and becoming a world contender again, and no matter how irrelevant they may seem right now, it will be unwise to completely overlook them going into All-Stars.
Predictions:
5. Fnatic
Fnatic managed to make it out of EU LCS, but there are many glaring weaknesses in their roster. Rekkles has shown that he is the only one who can be counted on for a stable performance, aided by Yellowstar’s aggressive playmaking, though that sometimes backfires. Xpeke, despite being a fan favorite, has consistently shown himself to be a tier below world-class competition, often forced to sacrifice farm or map presence and providing poor teamfight control. Soaz’s unwillingness to master meta top laners, preferring instead picks such as Leblanc and Lulu, severely limits his team’s drafting options, and Cyanide’s passable but not stellar jungling is not enough to carry two ailing solo lanes.
Yes, Fnatic is an ancient name, and yes, Fnatic has often managed to perform in LANs against all expectations. My personal opinion, however, is that Fnatic will falter at All-Star’s, losing to SKT,OMG C9, and possibly getting upset by TPA, giving Europe a repeat 5th place finish.
4. TPA
TPA has been a strong but not dominating performer in GPL, and though they are on paper weaker than the other teams in this tournament, I believe that they have what it takes to take some upset victories.
GPL is a very isolated region, which has allowed some peculiar picks and strategies to evolve. Though top GPL teams tend to mimic OGN drafting and strategies with some slight variations, their penchant for not lane swapping + exploiting lane advantages can catch teams offguard. Their less-than-perfect rotations and objective control is offset by their strong experience in laning, something that many other regions have abandoned almost completely. With the addition of Winds, which should be an upgrade compared to Dinter, TPA has a strong chance of establishing a dominating advantage in the laning phase, especially since teams like Fnatic and C9 are not traditionally known for strong laning phases. Bebe is dependable as ever, and has shown himself to be more capable than ever before at exploiting small advantages into insurmountable snowballs.
Ultimately, I do not believe they are, as a changing roster from a weaker isolated region, able to become a serious contender for the top spot. I do, however, believe it is very possible that they can make it into the bracket stage over a more popular team.
3. Cloud 9
If you are already outraged by how I placed Fnatic, you might be even more outraged to realize that this means I value C9, a team without even their main roster, over the stable and experienced Fnatic roster and above TPA as well, especially when considering C9’s track record against Fnatic.
Hai was C9’s main shotcaller and a strong playmaker, but many would also identify him as a weaker player in terms of individual mechanics when compared to the rest of his team, often opting to roam and support side lanes rather than attempting to build up a solo advantage in mid. His replacement is Link, who has some shotcalling responsibilities on CLG in addition to being a consistent player that can be counted on to not crumble. Link is in a good position to set up the rest of C9 into carry positions not unlike how Hai was, simply by providing the assurance of a stable mid lane that does not require special care or attention. If an enterprising opponent thinks to exploit the new mid laner by placing extra attention there, it opens up the threat of either a Meteos countergank (something he is very good at) or an unhindered Meteos farming away into a monstrous teamfight presence. Balls has established himself a force to be reckoned with top, and the Sneaky/Lemonation bot lane has improved from being a lower tier bot lane whose goal was to not lose into a carry threat in their own right. Critics might point out that C9’s main strength, their immaculate teamfighting, could be jeopardized by the addition of a new mid laner, but I simply think that Link just feels right as a part of C9.
All of the roster analysis aside, however, my main explanation, ridiculous as it may sound, is that C9 wants it more. As I mentioned in the background section, C9 has shown a strong desire to prove themselves on the world stage and shake off their reputation as merely an NA regional power. Perhaps I’m being unfair to Fnatic, but the European scene has had a history of a dismissive attitude towards showmatches, with many players choosing not to participate in similar events in the past. Indeed, Fnatic is currently away on vacation in the weeks leading up to All-Stars, as opposed to Cloud 9 who is devoting great time and energy, first to immediately finding a suitable replacement for Hai and moving him in, and subsequently practicing as a team. Ultimately, this drive to win will be what gives C9 a solid edge over their rivals Fnatic and ushers them into the playoffs.
2. SKT K and 1. OMG
After three teams are accounted for, it will leave the remaining two for the finals. I don’t think predicting an OMG vs. SKT K final is much of a novelty, as these two are the undeniable favorites coming into the tournament.
Predictions are no fun without controversy, and I might as well just predict more upsets. I pick OMG to take it all, but it will be close. SKT K, despite their recent slump and lackluster performance in the Korean scene, is without a doubt still a favorite in many people’s minds. Indeed, I hesitated in placing them second, because the world saw what a slumping KT Bullets managed to do to the rest of the field at IEM Katowice.
Faker, as mentioned, did perform adequately in SKT K’s OGN run. Still the monstrous individual force that we all know and fear, he will however be hindered by the shortened laning phase and early grouping. In addition, OMG comes from LPL, where swapping the duo lane mid occurs much more frequently than in other regions, which is something that SKT K and Faker will have to be wary of. Piglet showed sparks of his usual brilliance this season, but playing with new support Casper and then adjusting back to a rusty Mandu has taken its toll on him, and Piglet has been seen to falter. Bengi and Impact have been unable to provide the amount of support that the rest of SKT K have gotten used to getting. Bengi in particular has shown a very weak grasp of junglers not named Lee Sin, falling back to the low impact Nunu when Lee Sin is unavailable, and his overreliance on these junglers is a glaring weak point.
Unused to coming out of the early laning phase without a strong advantage, SKT K has looked quite clueless when trying to farm back and stall out their disadvantage, which is something that is quite deadly in the current state of the game. They remain individually strong, but OMG are no slouches, and this is their shot to take home the grand prize.
OMG’s biggest hindrance is of course the possibility that Cool will replace Xiyang. Though Cool is a weaker player individually and mechanically, the change is not without its advantages. Many pro players have identified teamfighting as much more important in the current metagame, with early grouping, lane swaps, and jungle raids taking center stage over extended laning phases. Despite a phenomenal season with Xiyang, pre-tournament interviews with OMG members have indicated that they believe Cool has communication and team synergy advantages from their experience playing together comp, which are sure to be helpful in early game rotations. In addition, OMG has been slowly shifting to drafts and strategies where Gogoing or San are given space to farm and carry, so Cool is free to play more supporting mid laners instead of the split pushing assassin hard carries that Xiyang was known for.
For Xiyang, the main question that has been floating around the Chinese community is whether or not he has been able to successfully expand his champion pool. As a result of being multiple patches behind for most of the past season, Xiyang’s LPL picks have been comprised almost entirely of Syndra, Leblanc, Nidalee, and Lulu. OMG has been limited by the lack of Ziggs, Yasuo, and to a lesser extent, Orianna, as valid mid picks, and with Lulu falling slightly out of favor, Xiyang’s limited champion pool might be a concern. Of course, OMG has been training on the Korean servers the past few weeks and it’s quite possible Xiyang has been training new picks in time for the tournament.
I had also stressed the importance of the drive to win in the C9 section, but it bears repeating here because OMG is, in my regards, quite similar to C9 – a regional powerhouse that has been unable to secure a large international victory. With the scarcity of chances for these big wins to begin with, OMG will treasure this opportunity all the more, and they have been very proactive in their preparations for the tournament, including practicing on the Korean servers to avoid the WE and iG fiasco at IEM Katowice where they were completely unfamiliar with the new patch.
Don’t get me wrong, it will be a very close series, and I predict OMG by only the narrowest of margins. A 3-2 victory for OMG is how I imagine the tournament plays out.
TL;DR version:
+ Show Spoiler +Fnatic is shit, the only thing Sexpeke can backdoor is Sjokz these days, worst mid lane world. Pretty sure Soaz doesn’t know how to play, Yolostar just wants to die, and Rekkless is losing his will to live. RIP TPA broke their backs trying to carry Dinter, and though Winds is lighter, their backs are probably still recovering from a season of hard labor and the 10 hour series with Ahq. GPL Struggler Chawy won’t even be on the roster, and we all remember how Morning got roflstomped by C9. Bebe is losing his will to live. RIP C9 are kings of a trash region, but winning against FreeSM is hardly indicative of how good you are. Hai preemptively lost his will to live and is hiding in the hospital while moemoelinklink is the scapegoat. Meteos is losing his will to live. RIP SKT K woke up one day and realized that they don’t have a support, their top laner is MIA, and their jungler has downs. Piglet lost his will to live long before, and Faker-senpai is scrawny Asian boy who is strong but not strong enough to carry a team of feeders. Collectively lost their wills to live. RIP OMG are choke artists, but this tournament is gonna be handed to them on a silver platter as long as they don’t choke, which granted might be hard. But bigpomelo’s favorite champion is Veigar so I pick OMG. + Show Spoiler +
Feel free to upvote on Reddit but this is a 5k word wall of text with zero pictures so I doubt it will go anywhere. BUT DAMMIT I WANT EFAME http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/search?q=All-Star's 2014 Thoughts + Predictions Csheep&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
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I'll predict the other way around, just to spite you.
+ Show Spoiler +I'll probably be wrong though
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On May 05 2014 23:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Prime Optimus’ miraculous 2-0 victory over SKT S gave SKT K a tie breaker opportunity against their sister team, and SKT K managed to squeeze through to the Ro8. There, Dade, leading Samsung Blue, avenged himself against Faker, and a 1-3 defeat signaled SKT K’s exit from Champions Spring 2014.
No, they lost to Ozone, not Blue. Quarters were Ozone-T1K, Frost-Blue, Shield-Bullets and Blaze-Arrows :p
Great read though, hopefully it'll get to page 4 of r/lol
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Baa?21242 Posts
On May 05 2014 23:56 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 23:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Prime Optimus’ miraculous 2-0 victory over SKT S gave SKT K a tie breaker opportunity against their sister team, and SKT K managed to squeeze through to the Ro8. There, Dade, leading Samsung Blue, avenged himself against Faker, and a 1-3 defeat signaled SKT K’s exit from Champions Spring 2014. No, they lost to Ozone, not Blue. Quarters were Ozone-T1K, Frost-Blue, Blaze-Bullets and Shield-Arrows :p Great read though, hopefully it'll get to page 4 of r/lol
Woops meant Pawn/Ozone thanks for the catch.
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Damn you quoted me before the edit, I messed up the last two matches [*]
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Awesome write-up. The introduction is very measured and a great analysis of the difference between this tournament showcasing match-up story lines versus determining relative regional strength.
I did want to riff a little bit on the C9 thing. Obviously much of what I'm about to say is completely moot after all the roster shifts, but I wondered about the notion that C9 is "by far, the strongest team in North America. The 3-0 dismantling of their closest competitor, TSM, in the 2014 NA LCS Spring Playoffs has shown their S3 performance was not a fluke."
C9 was 6-1 against TSM in Spring Split. A dominant performance, to be sure. But when we look into those figures, what do we really see?
Game 1: Teemo
Game 2: TSM Wins
Game 3: C9 beats Reginald
Game 4-7: Patch 4.5
We know that TSM was atrocious after Patch 4.5. Whether it is because the change to assassins disproportionately hurt Bjergsen who had the highest number of solo kills in NA LCS (even missing all that time due to visa issues), or because C9 crunched out practice reps with CLG instead of TSM in anticipation of the finals, TSM clearly looked like a different team after 4.5.
My question then is, which TSM is the real TSM? And what is the real strength of C9 relative to TSM? Or, maybe, in the fast-paced patching reality that Riot has put together, consistency across radical patches should be the gold standard more so than comparing two teams relative peaks. My theory is that had the NA Spring LCS ended just before Patch 4.5 hit, our perception of the relative strength between these two teams might be radically different, even though the talent on each team wouldn't have changed.
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Anyways, as I said, thanks for the write-up. Was a great read. Interested to see how Link does with C9. I always thought Hai did most of the late-game shot-calling, but hopefully Meteos or Lemon can pick up the slack.
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yet another post that cheep somehow gets away with
just kidding nice writeup although i'll be pulling for skt
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On May 06 2014 00:12 Takkara wrote:
Game 1: Teemo
Game 2: TSM Wins
Game 3: C9 beats Reginald
Game 4-7: Patch 4.5
You sound like a salty TSM fan  Don't worry I am too.
C9's greatest strength is Hai's ability to analyze patches and come up with really toxic/bullshit drafts which they can use to cheese out people, the same way Fnatic used to rely on brush strats. With Fnatic barely stumbling out of the fires of a burning EU region, and TPA not-actually-a-real-team, I think C9 should get 3rd easily (which is like saying CLG got 3rd in NA LCS easily, because the other 5 teams were not-actually-a-real-team).
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On May 06 2014 00:25 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 00:12 Takkara wrote:
Game 1: Teemo
Game 2: TSM Wins
Game 3: C9 beats Reginald
Game 4-7: Patch 4.5
You sound like a salty TSM fan Don't worry I am too. C9's greatest strength is Hai's ability to analyze patches and come up with really toxic/bullshit drafts which they can use to cheese out people, the same way Fnatic used to rely on brush strats. With Fnatic barely stumbling out of the fires of a burning EU region, and TPA not-actually-a-real-team, I think C9 should get 3rd easily (which is like saying CLG got 3rd in NA LCS easily, because the other 5 teams were not-actually-a-real-team).
I actually really like C9, also. I just haven't seen an analysis of NA that attempts to take out the Patch 4.5 results or at least put them into some sort of context. For the sake of arguing, I wish Riot could somehow keep the LCS seasons more stable and only release the truly radical changes between seasons.
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EDIT: I am looking forward most to C9 vs Fnatic. I wish Hai was going and C9 just truly dumpstered them. I think C9 would just rather play anyone else other than Fnatic at this point. Haha. Every chance they get to go abroad they have to play that team.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I'd prefer that link9 dumpsters fnatic just because Euro fanbois would get hyper salty and say link carried them
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Even in korea send jin air they still wil dumpster c9,fnatic,tpa trash teams.
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On May 06 2014 00:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 23:56 AlterKot wrote:On May 05 2014 23:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Prime Optimus’ miraculous 2-0 victory over SKT S gave SKT K a tie breaker opportunity against their sister team, and SKT K managed to squeeze through to the Ro8. There, Dade, leading Samsung Blue, avenged himself against Faker, and a 1-3 defeat signaled SKT K’s exit from Champions Spring 2014. No, they lost to Ozone, not Blue. Quarters were Ozone-T1K, Frost-Blue, Blaze-Bullets and Shield-Arrows :p Great read though, hopefully it'll get to page 4 of r/lol Woops meant Pawn/Ozone thanks for the catch.
Also, Fnatic lost in the ro4 vs Royal Club not ro8 (Season 3 worlds)
But great read overall, as much as I really do want SKT to win and NA/EU to be last I do however feel that OMG will win and I my spidey sense tells me that C9 actually has a 50/50 chance to win against SKT as long as Faker doesnt go god mode and just slaughters Link
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On May 06 2014 00:28 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 00:25 xes wrote:On May 06 2014 00:12 Takkara wrote:
Game 1: Teemo
Game 2: TSM Wins
Game 3: C9 beats Reginald
Game 4-7: Patch 4.5
You sound like a salty TSM fan Don't worry I am too. C9's greatest strength is Hai's ability to analyze patches and come up with really toxic/bullshit drafts which they can use to cheese out people, the same way Fnatic used to rely on brush strats. With Fnatic barely stumbling out of the fires of a burning EU region, and TPA not-actually-a-real-team, I think C9 should get 3rd easily (which is like saying CLG got 3rd in NA LCS easily, because the other 5 teams were not-actually-a-real-team). I actually really like C9, also. I just haven't seen an analysis of NA that attempts to take out the Patch 4.5 results or at least put them into some sort of context. For the sake of arguing, I wish Riot could somehow keep the LCS seasons more stable and only release the truly radical changes between seasons. -- EDIT: I am looking forward most to C9 vs Fnatic. I wish Hai was going and C9 just truly dumpstered them. I think C9 would just rather play anyone else other than Fnatic at this point. Haha. Every chance they get to go abroad they have to play that team.
I think everyone wishes Riot would stop doing dumb things in tournament patches so that the game could be more stable. Even maybe patch tournaments separately from soloq so that soloq can be the Beta to test out a few patch cycles.
You could even say that S2 WC was based on the patch cycle, because in that patch Mundo was really really good and TPA knew how to play Mundo. Their lack of prior success outside of GPL (lost to CLG.EU lomo) and lack of posterior success means that they were really a team in the right place at the right time.
The Trinity patch for S3 WC was also a huge one, but even though Piglet and Impact carried on Corki/Jax I doubt playing on a few patches back would have made it any more than maybe a closer 3-2 or 3-1, since SKT have demonstrated they are a strong team, in addition to having favorable patches.
The most unreasonable thing is that Riot expects pro players to "figure out" things in less than a month. Rumble and Kass just started seeing play in OGN and they both look pretty bullshit in terms of isolation stats, but it takes way longer to build stable drafts around these champions that also fits the players.
This is one of C9's greatest strengths: in a field of a bunch of not-real-teams who have high variance in their play, C9 is consistently above average on everything they do, even if they aren't excellent at any particular thing.
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Fnatic is incredibly inconsistent at the moment but usually they perform well at international events so I'm quite sure they will do better than you think. Also you rate recent performance way too high, SKT will crush the event and C9 is probably going to struggle again since it's so hard for them to get used to playing against good teams considering they play joke teams all year long.
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It's Sheep's personal opinion so I can't criticize it but I feel like the bias is strong in this one and I'll gladly lean back and enjoy fnatic at least beating both TPA and C9
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Holy shit these fnatic comments in the reddit thread, goddamn salt mine over there god bless
On May 06 2014 01:09 AsnSensation wrote:It's Sheep's personal opinion so I can't criticize it but I feel like the bias is strong in this one and I'll gladly lean back and enjoy fnatic at least beating both TPA and C9
I think TPA is going into this underrated, the TPA people have been seeing for a while has literally had no jungler for years now (Lilballz post mundo --> sarsky --> dinter like holy shit more 4v5s pls) they'll surprise people now that winds is on board and actually has an idea what he's doing.
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Fnatic are probably going to beat TPA, but given that this is on 4.6 and EU can barely play on 4.4 I don't think they will beat even a crippled C9 if Hai still has input on drafting.
Although none of it really matters; we know who top 2 will be and the other 3 are just cripples fighting it out
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Idk why you would assume that fnatic or EU still can't play on 4.5 (or 4.6 but it only had minor changes) when it has been 2 weeks since the playoffs and even if they didn't have the full grasp of it yet back in the playoffs, I'm sure watching a ton of ogn and even C9 has certainly "inspired" them.
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Who are they going to scrim against? SK? Roccat?
Please.
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On May 06 2014 01:19 xes wrote:
Who are they going to scrim against? SK? Roccat?
Please.
They are going scrim ocelote team huehue
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On May 06 2014 01:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Idk why you would assume that fnatic or EU still can't play on 4.5 (or 4.6 but it only had minor changes) when it has been 2 weeks since the playoffs and even if they didn't have the full grasp of it yet back in the playoffs, I'm sure watching a ton of ogn and even C9 has certainly "inspired" them.
because they didn't adapt in previous patches, and the patches before those. for better or for worse, eu is resiliant to meta changes for the most part.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 06 2014 01:22 skykh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 01:19 xes wrote:
Who are they going to scrim against? SK? Roccat?
Please. They are going scrim ocelote team huehue
C9E scrimmed with ocelote's team, C9E also scrimmed with alliance therefore we can conclude that ocelote's team is equal to alliance
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On May 06 2014 01:23 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 01:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Idk why you would assume that fnatic or EU still can't play on 4.5 (or 4.6 but it only had minor changes) when it has been 2 weeks since the playoffs and even if they didn't have the full grasp of it yet back in the playoffs, I'm sure watching a ton of ogn and even C9 has certainly "inspired" them. because they didn't adapt in previous patches, and the patches before those. for better or for worse, eu is resiliant to meta changes for the most part.
lol k :D ognTSM
(btw: saying fnatic doesn't "want it" is kind of a ridiculous statement considering two of their players are fucking french)
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On May 06 2014 01:27 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 01:23 wei2coolman wrote:On May 06 2014 01:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Idk why you would assume that fnatic or EU still can't play on 4.5 (or 4.6 but it only had minor changes) when it has been 2 weeks since the playoffs and even if they didn't have the full grasp of it yet back in the playoffs, I'm sure watching a ton of ogn and even C9 has certainly "inspired" them. because they didn't adapt in previous patches, and the patches before those. for better or for worse, eu is resiliant to meta changes for the most part. lol k :D ognTSM (btw: saying fnatic doesn't "want it" is kind of a ridiculous statement considering two of their players are fucking french)
And one is fucking Belgian and they speak French there right
+ Show Spoiler +
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There's a reason why TSM draws criticism, they got brutally rekt by C9. Cuz guess what? C9's been playing Korean style meta for the past 2 splits, while TSM's been playing the boring lane style of season 1 for the past 4 years. No one is claiming TSM to be the poster child of adopting korean playstyle. It's pretty apparent throughout LCS that EU teams don't even try to change the way they play.
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I guess I'm somewhere in between all these predictions. On one hand, I like OMG over T1K - I think the slump is real and I just don't believe that China is so far behind that their absolute best cream of the crop team can't pose a challenge to a squad that got eleminated by Frost. On the other, I think this might be the one, last bronze medal for EU before the rise of NA - Fnatic are in a decent shape and so far international competition proved that even if EU teams don't look good on paper, they just constantly win thanks to x-factor or their ctluchness or what not. I think NA will outclass us at Worlds, but I don't see it happening yet.
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This doesn't look like a super pretty writeup. And you call yourself a staff member.
Seriously though, I largely agree with your predictions, but I think a lot of it is hinging on how Fnatic is prepared to play. If they just view it as a showmatch, then they'll get stomped, but if they're salty still about last year's EU showing at All-Stars, they might be pretty competitive.
As a sidenote, I'm sure its beating a dead horse by now, but I really disagree with the way Riot is organizing international play. They're attempting to trump up this All-Stars as an international competition, and that it's a big deal, but that's clearly not really the case.
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Man i didn't know about this site before but really the article and the people who comment the articles are pretty funny hahaha :D
Ok so "C9's been playing Korean style for the past 2 split ... HAHA NOPE ! you're wrong for both split C9 has his own style even if they follow the "META" indeed but only in the 2nd split, 1st split they follow the Korean Meta ? XD really ?
I remember a "carry jungler" taking all the farm to his team and oh yeah that's why they lose coz their all lane were losing to Fnatic :
No gank ? No comeback !
"It's pretty apparent throughout LCS that EU teams don't even try to change the way they play"
About what speak you exactly? Rotations? SK make his rotations also for Fnatic how much team makes it in NA? Ah yes 2 also even if only 1 can do a proper job (C9 ) coz all individual players on NA are weak. I remenber that C9 got out'rotated at IEM too.
I remember this Hype/C9 ; Hate/FNC, i think it was the last Worlds if i remember but that didn't go very well for the NA boys.
It's clear that your article is not partial at all, Hai is not with them but still " C9 is superior to Fnatic" lol, you should probably stop watch Montechristo or not made an article only on your own opinion and felt.
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On May 06 2014 00:37 skykh wrote:
Even in korea send jin air they still wil dumpster c9,fnatic,tpa trash teams.
Do you think Jin Air is better than Ozone in S3 WC?
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Reddit comments have more lomo than cheeps and roffles post history combined.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 06 2014 02:07 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 00:37 skykh wrote:
Even in korea send jin air they still wil dumpster c9,fnatic,tpa trash teams. Do you think Jin Air is better than Ozone in S3 WC?
Jin Air Stealths could totes win everything.
Believe in trace who believes in you
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On May 06 2014 02:07 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 00:37 skykh wrote:
Even in korea send jin air they still wil dumpster c9,fnatic,tpa trash teams. Do you think Jin Air is better than Ozone in S3 WC?
Jin Air put up better fights against KTB than Western teams like Fnatic did
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On May 06 2014 02:00 akioka wrote:
Man i didn't know about this site before but really the article and the people who comment the articles are pretty funny hahaha :D
Ok so "C9's been playing Korean style for the past 2 split ... HAHA NOPE ! you're wrong for both split C9 has his own style even if they follow the "META" indeed but only in the 2nd split, 1st split they follow the Korean Meta ? XD really ?
I remember a "carry jungler" taking all the farm to his team and oh yeah that's why they lose coz their all lane were losing to Fnatic :
No gank ? No comeback !
"It's pretty apparent throughout LCS that EU teams don't even try to change the way they play"
About what speak you exactly? Rotations? SK make his rotations also for Fnatic how much team makes it in NA? Ah yes 2 also even if only 1 can do a proper job (C9 ) coz all individual players on NA are weak. I remenber that C9 got out'rotated at IEM too.
I remember this Hype/C9 ; Hate/FNC, i think it was the last Worlds if i remember but that didn't go very well for the NA boys.
It's clear that your article is not partial at all, Hai is not with them but still " C9 is superior to Fnatic" lol, you should probably stop watch Montechristo or not made an article only on your own opinion and felt.
Farm priority is only part of the c9 style though. The objective control along with map rotations, and cutting off of map movement were heavily korean influenced.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I disagree.
SKT ? OMG > Fnatic > C9 > TPA
TPA is bad. They were bad at IEM, and are probably bad now. C9 loses to Fnatic all the time even with Hai. Imagine not having a mid player who's core to their team and has great synergy with their key player Meteos.
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On May 06 2014 02:24 Roffles wrote:
I disagree.
SKT ? OMG > Fnatic > C9 > TPA
TPA is bad. They were bad at IEM, and are probably bad now. C9 loses to Fnatic all the time even with Hai. Imagine not having a mid player who's core to their team and has great synergy with their key player Meteos.
yeah, but imagine having a mid player that doesn't randomly lose lane to xpeke.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 06 2014 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 02:24 Roffles wrote:
I disagree.
SKT ? OMG > Fnatic > C9 > TPA
TPA is bad. They were bad at IEM, and are probably bad now. C9 loses to Fnatic all the time even with Hai. Imagine not having a mid player who's core to their team and has great synergy with their key player Meteos. yeah, but imagine having a mid player that doesn't randomly lose lane to xpeke.
It's okay, all the mids at all-stars will wear whit3zz masks, xpeke will have a seizure and fnatic goes 0-4
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It wouldn't be a cheep post without lomo
lomo
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Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
This isn't 2012, where losing a mid laner and replacing him with someone of similar skill level can still net you wins *cough CLG*. This is 2014, where games are won off single fights, where games are decided based on how well teams communicate map movements so they can grab advantages off global objectives.
1v1 mid doesn't matter. Link won't do that much better or worse than Hai vs international competition. The skill gap between the two isn't that much better. Plus, if anything Hai plays really well in conjunction with Meteos, which is pretty much all that matters nowadays. Losing a mid player is critical. Plus, I don't understand why you completely discount Fnatic when Fnatic has always shown that in the past when it comes to crunchtime in international play, their game steps up many notches, while Cloud 9 has always fared really poorly against them in the past.
If anything, based off recent international play and the roster changes coming for Cloud 9 and TPA, you can expect those two to be battling for last, with Fnatic in the middle of the pack. Stability is key, and they've always been good at international play since Season 1.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
And also, I don't know why you discredit SKT. Sure Bengi's champion pool is an issue, but let's be honest here. Their mid laner is still probably the best player in the world, and their AD carry is still playing at a very high level. Sure, their top has been slumping recently and they didn't do all that well in OGN, but you have to consider the fact that the rest of Korea has caught up to them. Take a look at their competition in OGN. In the quarterfinals, you had SKT T1 K, Samsung Blue, Samsung Ozone, CJ Frost, CJ Blaze, KT Arrows, KT Bullets, and Najin Shield. Of those eight teams, at least half of them if you put in place of SKT would undoubtedly take first place.
Just because OMG plays in the land of the shitters who all buy stacking items because they lose their wills to live doesn't mean they'll beat SKT. OMG's lost games to WE and iG in the last couple of months in fairly convincing fashion as well. And we all saw how those teams fared at IEM. They got shit on by NA and EU. So to discredit SKT for poor performance as of late is somewhat questionable simply because we all saw what KT Bullets were able to do at IEM.
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As a C9 / Link fan, I agree on the value of C9 as a team. Unfortunately, Cheep wrote this article so something is going to get fucked up. Hopefully they finish top 2 somehow instead of bottom 2 =/
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters.
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On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters.
http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15
Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic
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cloud9 with link is about 50/50 with tpa
On May 06 2014 03:19 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic
The Neoillusions-approved and Riot-approved PR also had C9 and Fnatic over KTB during IEM though
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 06 2014 03:19 Kupon3ss wrote:cloud9 with link is about 50/50 with tpa Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:19 xes wrote:On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic The Neoillusions-approved and Riot-approved PR also had C9 and Fnatic over KTB during IEM though
I agree with this sentiment. 50-50 C9 vs TPA. Having subs, especially ones you haven't played with for a long time isn't a recipe for success.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Also, let's get this fucking cleared up. Jack "Regularly watches most of the 5 major leagues" NeoIllusions Ho probably watches a grand total of 0 leagues. Probably just reads like Leaguepedia and asks Yango which teams in China aren't shit.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Baa?21242 Posts
On May 06 2014 00:38 Thinasy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 00:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 05 2014 23:56 AlterKot wrote:On May 05 2014 23:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Prime Optimus’ miraculous 2-0 victory over SKT S gave SKT K a tie breaker opportunity against their sister team, and SKT K managed to squeeze through to the Ro8. There, Dade, leading Samsung Blue, avenged himself against Faker, and a 1-3 defeat signaled SKT K’s exit from Champions Spring 2014. No, they lost to Ozone, not Blue. Quarters were Ozone-T1K, Frost-Blue, Blaze-Bullets and Shield-Arrows :p Great read though, hopefully it'll get to page 4 of r/lol Woops meant Pawn/Ozone thanks for the catch. Also, Fnatic lost in the ro4 vs Royal Club not ro8 (Season 3 worlds)
Thanks.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Anyways, my TLDR is that Cheep just hates Euros and is a homer China fanboy.
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actually that might be possible
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 06 2014 03:43 Hagen0 wrote:actually that might be possible
Absolutely not. On a good day with Hai playing for Cloud 9, they've never won a meaningful series against Fnatic ever. They've only played a few teams in international play, but they've always gotten dumped on by Fnatic when it mattered most. The teams are still the same, the players are still the same. You wanna say Fnatic has weaker laners? Fnatic outlaned Cloud 9 at IEM just a couple of months ago.
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Y'all insane. If Fnatic finishes last I'll eat my shorts.
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On May 06 2014 03:47 Roffles wrote:Absolutely not. On a good day with Hai playing for Cloud 9, they've never won a meaningful series against Fnatic ever. They've only played a few teams in international play, but they've always gotten dumped on by Fnatic when it mattered most. The teams are still the same, the players are still the same. You wanna say Fnatic has weaker laners? Fnatic outlaned Cloud 9 at IEM just a couple of months ago.
Wasn't the losses against fnatics always 2-1 though? And they did win BotA 2-0.
I think the overall match up for Fnatic vs C9 is 2 Bo3 wins for Fnatic and 1 BO3 loss (which is actually 4 games a piece for each team). I don't think fnatic "dumped" on c9 as hard as you think, history suggests the match up is actually pretty close.
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On May 06 2014 03:19 Kupon3ss wrote:cloud9 with link is about 50/50 with tpa Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:19 xes wrote:On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic The Neoillusions-approved and Riot-approved PR also had C9 and Fnatic over KTB during IEM though
Rofl this power ranking I can't stop laughing. C9 ahead of KT B when both these teams were at IEM and KT B finished 1st easily and C9 3rd/4th ? Why are they THAT biased ? It's just sad.
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On May 06 2014 03:42 Roffles wrote:
Anyways, my TLDR is that Cheep just hates Euros and is a homer China fanboy.
LOOOOL
I wuv you Roffles :3
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On May 06 2014 04:40 RouaF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:19 Kupon3ss wrote:cloud9 with link is about 50/50 with tpa On May 06 2014 03:19 xes wrote:On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic The Neoillusions-approved and Riot-approved PR also had C9 and Fnatic over KTB during IEM though Rofl this power ranking I can't stop laughing. C9 ahead of KT B when both these teams were at IEM and KT B finished 1st easily and C9 3rd/4th ? Why are they THAT biased ? It's just sad.
It's hugely in their interest to promote a story of "separate but equal" between regions. After all, people saw what the harsh realities of Korean vs Western Esports did to SC2.
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On May 06 2014 04:52 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 04:40 RouaF wrote:On May 06 2014 03:19 Kupon3ss wrote:cloud9 with link is about 50/50 with tpa On May 06 2014 03:19 xes wrote:On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. http://na.lolesports.com/articles/power-rankings-week-15Jack "TeamLiquid staff writer. Has covered OGN, NA and EU LCS for TL and lolesports.com. Regularly watches most of the five major leagues" Ho would beg to differ and agree that C9 > TPA > Fnatic The Neoillusions-approved and Riot-approved PR also had C9 and Fnatic over KTB during IEM though Rofl this power ranking I can't stop laughing. C9 ahead of KT B when both these teams were at IEM and KT B finished 1st easily and C9 3rd/4th ? Why are they THAT biased ? It's just sad. It's hugely in their interest to promote a story of "separate but equal" between regions. After all, people saw what the harsh realities of Korean vs Western Esports did to SC2.
Then why don't they give C9 more international experience so they can REALLY have a chance at competing with europeans and koreans ? At the moment C9 is the genius of the NA scene but it doesn't matter since they are stuck playing versus peasants they can't improve. Writing power ranking and placing them higher than korean teams isn't going to make them win against said korean teams....
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If every "international experience" is a humiliating defeat it kind of defeats the entire purpose. No NA team can REALLY have a chance at competing with Koreans just given the way LCS is run. Its much easier to just go
C9 has a 90% winrate in NALCS WHATATEAMOMGHOPEOFTHEWEST
much like cheep has done
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United States47024 Posts
From Riot's perspective, indefinite false hope is better than hopelessness. Even if C9 eventually became better through international experience and NA got better in the long run, in the short and medium term, exposing the hopelessness of NA in international competition has the potential to hurt viewership.
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United States4126 Posts
On May 06 2014 03:42 Roffles wrote:
Anyways, my TLDR is that Cheep just hates Euros and is a homer China fanboy.
Pretty much.
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On May 06 2014 06:22 TheYango wrote:
From Riot's perspective, indefinite false hope is better than hopelessness. Even if C9 eventually became better through international experience and NA got better in the long run, in the short and medium term, exposing the hopelessness of NA in international competition has the potential to hurt viewership.
Yeah but people are not blind, there's still worlds every year and next time it could very well be a korean only final, hell maybe there won't even be an european or american team in the semis. Also if Riot wants to protect the NA scene so badly they will need to do something about the other LMQ-like teams who WILL eventually come to America for the easy money. Just look what WCS NA has become l0l.
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On May 06 2014 06:22 TheYango wrote:
From Riot's perspective, indefinite false hope is better than hopelessness. Even if C9 eventually became better through international experience and NA got better in the long run, in the short and medium term, exposing the hopelessness of NA in international competition has the potential to hurt viewership.
Happy birthday Yango, may your days be filled with Longevity, Optimism, Magnanimity, and Opulence
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On May 06 2014 03:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:47 Roffles wrote:On May 06 2014 03:43 Hagen0 wrote:actually that might be possible Absolutely not. On a good day with Hai playing for Cloud 9, they've never won a meaningful series against Fnatic ever. They've only played a few teams in international play, but they've always gotten dumped on by Fnatic when it mattered most. The teams are still the same, the players are still the same. You wanna say Fnatic has weaker laners? Fnatic outlaned Cloud 9 at IEM just a couple of months ago. Wasn't the losses against fnatics always 2-1 though? And they did win BotA 2-0. I think the overall match up for Fnatic vs C9 is 2 Bo3 wins for Fnatic and 1 BO3 loss (which is actually 4 games a piece for each team). I don't think fnatic "dumped" on c9 as hard as you think, history suggests the match up is actually pretty close.
I don't know what the heck he's talking about either on such a small sample size.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 06 2014 07:12 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 06:22 TheYango wrote:
From Riot's perspective, indefinite false hope is better than hopelessness. Even if C9 eventually became better through international experience and NA got better in the long run, in the short and medium term, exposing the hopelessness of NA in international competition has the potential to hurt viewership. Happy birthday Yango, may your days be filled with Longevity, Optimism, Magnanimity, and Opulence
I'm pretty sure the optimism is gone already.
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I would take that "backdoor Sjokz" remark out as it's pretty sexist...
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@ZERG_RUSSIAN come on it's just a joke! It's everywhere. I just found this on Reddit and though I don't agree with what this guy has to say, it was a fun piece to read. Do you guys often put out stuff like this?
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On May 06 2014 03:28 Roffles wrote:
Also, let's get this fucking cleared up. Jack "Regularly watches most of the 5 major leagues" NeoIllusions Ho probably watches a grand total of 0 leagues. Probably just reads like Leaguepedia and asks Yango which teams in China aren't shit.
User was temp banned for this post.
Poor Roffles, questioning the claims of great leader Neoillusions will get you Neoillusions-unapproved and actioned every time.
Anyways Yango, how optimistic are you about the special all-star totally unique meta match? More or less optimistic than you are are about the return of #CTY.
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It really depends on which version of SKT shows up. If it's still the faker show that it's been for the last while, they'll probably get beat up by OMG. Faker is still very much top3 mid laners in the world, regardless of how his team has done. I wouldn't expect lulu or leblanc to ever get through bans, and probably kassadin/TF as a permaban as well. That leaves ori ziggs Yasuo and nidalee as the likely carry orientated picks, and soraka and karma possibly showing up in mid as well.
Fnatic is a bit of a wildcard IMO. They can play like the best team in Europe(Western world?) one day, and the next make CoLB look like a good team. I wouldn't expect them to place above 3rd, but any slot between 3-5 is definitely within reach.
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C9 are too young to want anything other than pussy. Unless they can get a strong presence to help them, I doubt you'll see them able to succeed the way people want until they are mid to late twenties. Brain development is one thing you can't fake.
If Riot wants teams to get better, have the winners of quarter seasons go to play offs against each other.
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tldr ftw xD
btw lost my will to read, rip^^
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The reddit comments, lol.
Fnatic has a good chance of ending last, I am pretty sure that even without Hai C9 is better than them at the moment. Only thing that could keep Fnatic from last place is TPA being even worse. It's hard to tell, I never really watch GPL.
Not sure of who will win it. It all depends on how well OMG is able to adept to 4.6, if they can adept well I wouldn't be surprised to see them take first spot.
As for SKT K, even though they are slumping bad, Faker is still the best midlaner out there but I doubt Bengi and Mandu have improved in such a short time. Those two are the weakest link in that line up right now.
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+ Show Spoiler +Who said C9 wasn't going to beat Fnatic? zzz
Upvote CSheep on reddit imo, fnatic fifth place the dream
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United States23745 Posts
I really wanted him to be right, the amount of EU salt in that thread was INSANE. Like, I understand you think he's wrong, but my god people were getting hostile.
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Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought
1 CSheep 2: 7
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On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr.
cuz i said so.
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On May 09 2014 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr. cuz i said so.
Let's be real here, Link had a lot of misplays and got carried by Meteos and Balls and the fact the Xpeke would either throw out garbage ults, or he would have a good ult way too late because the rest of his team didn't know what they were doing.
Also, C9 had huge balls and let Shyv split push vs then and just made sure to use Trundle+Elise to force the engage onto Ori
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On May 09 2014 02:40 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr. cuz i said so. Let's be real here, Link had a lot of misplays and got carried by Meteos and Balls and the fact the Xpeke would either throw out garbage ults, or he would have a good ult way too late because the rest of his team didn't know what they were doing. Also, C9 had huge balls and let Shyv split push vs then and just made sure to use Trundle+Elise to force the engage onto Ori
Link played teamfights fine. If he's doing the shotcalling for c9 like meteos suggested, then those calls in those games were pretty solid.
I'm just happy he didn't die like 3 times in lane against xpeke in a 1v1.
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United States23745 Posts
On May 09 2014 02:40 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr. cuz i said so. Let's be real here, Link had a lot of misplays and got carried by Meteos and Balls and the fact the Xpeke would either throw out garbage ults, or he would have a good ult way too late because the rest of his team didn't know what they were doing. Also, C9 had huge balls and let Shyv split push vs then and just made sure to use Trundle+Elise to force the engage onto Ori
It was far from perfect, but it sure was a win.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
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tl;dr is pretty accurate though, only forgot to metion that Achie proves that toplane is hard.
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On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters.
Quoted 4 lulz.
Rip in pepperonis rawfuls
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On May 10 2014 04:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. Quoted 4 lulz. Rip in pepperonis rawfuls
What a way to go.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 09 2014 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 02:40 xes wrote:On May 09 2014 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr. cuz i said so. Let's be real here, Link had a lot of misplays and got carried by Meteos and Balls and the fact the Xpeke would either throw out garbage ults, or he would have a good ult way too late because the rest of his team didn't know what they were doing. Also, C9 had huge balls and let Shyv split push vs then and just made sure to use Trundle+Elise to force the engage onto Ori Link played teamfights fine. If he's doing the shotcalling for c9 like meteos suggested, then those calls in those games were pretty solid. I'm just happy he didn't die like 3 times in lane against xpeke in a 1v1.
Honestly if Link looked any more comfortable, CLG should be worried.
If a player looks as good as a standin for another team that he never plays with as he does on your team that he plays with all the time, what does that say about his level of commitment to your team?
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On May 10 2014 05:31 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:On May 09 2014 02:40 xes wrote:On May 09 2014 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On May 06 2014 02:46 nafta wrote:
Why would link do better than hai vs xpeke?Bjerg shit on link every game while hai did ok.
I love how cheep didn't mention cyanide in the fnatic tl;dr. cuz i said so. Let's be real here, Link had a lot of misplays and got carried by Meteos and Balls and the fact the Xpeke would either throw out garbage ults, or he would have a good ult way too late because the rest of his team didn't know what they were doing. Also, C9 had huge balls and let Shyv split push vs then and just made sure to use Trundle+Elise to force the engage onto Ori Link played teamfights fine. If he's doing the shotcalling for c9 like meteos suggested, then those calls in those games were pretty solid. I'm just happy he didn't die like 3 times in lane against xpeke in a 1v1. Honestly if Link looked any more comfortable, CLG should be worried. If a player looks as good as a standin for another team that he never plays with as he does on your team that he plays with all the time, what does that say about his level of commitment to your team?
Link and hai play pretty similar roles. It's pretty obvious why c9 felt comfortable asking link to sub for them. Not to mention link is on a team thats 2nd best in NA in terms of macro strat. C9 very fortunate link said yes to sub.
Though, i would still say midlane is a big concern for c9. Even if link never lost lane catostrophically, he never won lane or went even against any of the other midlaners. Pretty big point of weakness that c9 has to shore up.
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United States47024 Posts
You're not quite getting what I'm saying.
I think it's fine that C9 is comfortable playing with Link.
I think it should be worrisome to CLG if Link looks too comfortable playing with C9 (though given how he's looked, I don't think he is).
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On May 10 2014 04:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 03:17 Roffles wrote:Cloud 9 with Link will not beat OMG, even if they had to play Cool. Cloud 9 with Link won't even beat Fnatic because Fnatic OWNS Cloud 9 when it matters. Quoted 4 lulz. Rip in pepperonis rawfuls
pls say this tomorrow after semis, then maybe it might mean something (and I actually will admit it)
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c9 will get smashed tomorrow
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On May 10 2014 10:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:
c9 will get smashed tomorrow
from interviews with travis, c9 didn't sound very confident. lol.
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C9 will get smashed but the same thing is going to happen to fnatic anyway so I don't see how you are going to compare both teams based on today's matches.
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hey
hey
quote me for the lulz
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On May 10 2014 10:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:
c9 will get smashed tomorrow
Bly sensei teach us your ways.
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Sooo where is cheep ? Hiding in a brush ?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 12 2014 01:09 RouaF wrote:
Sooo where is cheep ? Hiding in a brush ?
Still mourning roffles
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On May 12 2014 01:09 RouaF wrote:
Sooo where is cheep ? Hiding in a brush ?
He ragequit TL LoL now that Roffles is gone.
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Lost his will to live in other words RIP
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Znf soon to be new cheep? :D
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No. I barely even play this game. Too busy playing CSGO/losing will to live.
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Canada2068 Posts
#freeruffles #freeshauni
bring back the golden age of TL LoL
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On May 12 2014 13:15 CountChocula wrote:
#freeruffles #freeshauni
bring back the golden age of TL LoL
lol, Shauni rarely even talked in TL LoL...but #freeshauni
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bring back the 4 heavenly kings of quality posting: roffles cheep shikyo and prinx0r
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On May 13 2014 03:05 Kupon3ss wrote:
bring back the 4 heavenly kings of quality posting: roffles cheep shikyo and prinx0r
Ik it's been said before but
Jazriel was toxic before toxic was invented.
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On May 13 2014 03:05 Kupon3ss wrote:
bring back the 4 heavenly kings of quality posting: roffles cheep shikyo and prinx0r
whats going on?
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WHY IS OP SO RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING
(except omg)
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EPT
