EPTBut yeah, I don't care about playing FotM (heck I play Jax and I've had to deal with Renekton in more than half my games, had Darius and Shen too; my main (only >>) jungler is Vi but that's because I've been playing her and teaching dudes to max Q since day1 too), but I don't want to make things excruciatingly difficult for no good reason either.
[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 94
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But yeah, I don't care about playing FotM (heck I play Jax and I've had to deal with Renekton in more than half my games, had Darius and Shen too; my main (only >>) jungler is Vi but that's because I've been playing her and teaching dudes to max Q since day1 too), but I don't want to make things excruciatingly difficult for no good reason either. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On February 21 2014 02:17 Slayer91 wrote:About warwicks lane phase, I have often played lanes with really passive ADs where I play leona but can't go in, so I imagine warwick can do OK pre 6. The only problem is he has no CC pre 6 so he can't suppor ta gank, and it makes him super easier to dive 3 man if they can push at will and dive pre 6. However his E makes it a bit hard to dive him I guess, and post 6 he becomes as good as leona at supporting a gank. I don't really like this comparison because it ignores the threat of counter initiate, it's like why LB support can wreck Sona but can't really deal with Annie. I mean I know you know that but I'm not sure that everyone reading it does. Also apparently buying a Dshield and applying auto attack harass is apparently a skill set reserved to D1, I didn't know that. Tbh the main problem with the entire idea for me is simply that it is about the "6th threat" play style as opposed to the "get as much gold on my 1 position as possible"(standard) play style, although at the moment I would say that 6th threat is in a good spot compared to the standard style (especially in solo) I feel like it's being unkind to the other players on your team, especially the adc. It's really frustrating to play ADC with this style of support (even if they are doing really well) when adc is already a very frustrating role atm. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It was an issue before the spirit stone regen buff but now it's not a problem anymore, IMO. As far as Sej vs. Amumu, it seems to me like Amumu does more damage but Sej has more CC. I'm not sure a direct comparison is very fair? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 21 2014 03:26 Slusher wrote: I don't really like this comparison because it ignores the threat of counter initiate, it's like why LB support can wreck Sona but can't really deal with Annie. I mean I know you know that but I'm not sure that everyone reading it does. Also apparently buying a Dshield and applying auto attack harass is apparently a skill set reserved to D1, I didn't know that. Tbh the main problem with the entire idea for me is simply that it is about the "6th threat" play style as opposed to the "get as much gold on my 1 position as possible"(standard) play style, although at the moment I would say that 6th threat is in a good spot compared to the standard style (especially in solo) I feel like it's being unkind to the other players on your team, especially the adc. It's really frustrating to play ADC with this style of support (even if they are doing really well) when adc is already a very frustrating role atm. i understand counter initiate is a threat but definitely theres case where it really isnt because my adc is too low hp because he did something stupid and we have to play passive On February 21 2014 03:04 Sarah Bryant wrote: Yeah, i main bot and i know how stressful it can be  .Well, they may work,.but because of my general game level and not because they are necessarily good. If this were the case i wouldn't be able to call my idea any good, but as i said i feel that's not the case and you don't need to be in a level above the game to make it work over time. how can you prove that the unorthodox supports only work because of your game level but support warwick works based on merit alone? what makes you think a player at his "true" skill level, i sgoing to do well in games where he throws away the early laning phase, and then has to make it all up later. Are you saying that warwicks mid/lategame are so stronk they are better than all other suppors enough to justify the weak laning phase. Or that warwick is so easy to play that you just ult lanes and get kills? Because if that were true, jungle ww should be even stronger than support ww and jungle WW should be free wins basically. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 21 2014 03:35 Ketara wrote: I feel like Sej's early clear is about the same as Vi's. Those are really the only two junglers I play atm cuz' I'm not a jungle guy. It was an issue before the spirit stone regen buff but now it's not a problem anymore, IMO. As far as Sej vs. Amumu, it seems to me like Amumu does more damage but Sej has more CC. I'm not sure a direct comparison is very fair? Amumu has godly clear right now compared to Sejuani. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
Also whatever happened to Leblanc support anyway? Looked so fun x_X | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
also non squishy supports | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
On February 21 2014 03:47 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu has godly clear right now compared to Sejuani. Yeah, S4 nerfed her hard. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35161 Posts
On February 21 2014 02:50 Ketara wrote: It's like we only have toxic topics here. In other news, I still think Sejuani is ridiculously OP, I am wondering why she hasn't gotten the TL stamp of approval. Am I bad? (hint: I'm bad) She has everything you need to abuse soloq as long as you can get to 6 without being put far behind. On February 21 2014 02:54 Sufficiency wrote: Yeah like Slayer91 said, Amumu seems to be way better than Sejuani at the moment. I don’t think Sejuani is bad, but Amumu is just so much better right now. Strongly disagree. On February 21 2014 03:35 Ketara wrote: I feel like Sej's early clear is about the same as Vi's. Those are really the only two junglers I play atm cuz' I'm not a jungle guy. It was an issue before the spirit stone regen buff but now it's not a problem anymore, IMO. As far as Sej vs. Amumu, it seems to me like Amumu does more damage but Sej has more CC. I'm not sure a direct comparison is very fair? Without Amumu's passive Mpen? Nope, Sejuani does more. With it? Idk, I'd have to check. The recent changes to jungle items have only helped her. Her only weak spot is early level dueling, but Amumu has that too. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On February 21 2014 03:55 KissBlade wrote: Also whatever happened to Leblanc support anyway? Looked so fun x_X Bad vs. Leona, pretty close to bad vs. Thresh, Dshield lol, Annie is a snowball match up, you can punish Annie for stunning your adc, but if you feed a kill the lane is over. also post lane phase assassin mids who get wrecked by silence (mainly Zed) aren't as common. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
You have a steroid and heal that are in most regards inferior to Nunu, who was mentioning in passing. You have zero CC, and apart from a lvl 1 with mass offensive runes and masteries, you don't really have that much damage. From level 1 to 6 you are basically letting your AD 1v2 because you bring nothing to the lane except the hope of brush control in the unlikely case that your AD 1v2's the enemy team to low health. Furthermore, I have no idea how you could get any team to let you play WW support. They'd call you a troll and rage, and chances are they'd dodge or just play shittier and lose. I will attempt to get my ranked 5's people to play a game or two with it, but l think we'll just be donating LP to whoever we face unless another lane gets stupid fed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
On February 21 2014 04:38 Gahlo wrote: She has everything you need to abuse soloq as long as you can get to 6 without being put far behind. Strongly disagree. Without Amumu's passive Mpen? Nope, Sejuani does more. With it? Idk, I'd have to check. The recent changes to jungle items have only helped her. Her only weak spot is early level dueling, but Amumu has that too. Her first clear is really bad now tbh, it used to be one of the fastest but now it's pretty slow. Also, how exactly did the item changes help her? Going elder lizard or wraith has never been as viable as now, which makes for a lot of early dueling junglers. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35161 Posts
On February 21 2014 05:22 Fildun wrote: Her first clear is really bad now tbh, it used to be one of the fastest but now it's pretty slow. Also, how exactly did the item changes help her? Going elder lizard or wraith has never been as viable as now, which makes for a lot of early dueling junglers. Sejuani's first clear was never super fast. I'm talking about the recent changes on the PBE, which I misattributed to being on live due to how long I spend curating that thread, to the damage=>sustain on the spirit items. Instead of being 8%hp/4%mana halved for AOE, it's being changed to 6%hp/3%mana. This is a 50% increase in her jungle sustain and greatly changes how she can impact the game. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Is that really that bad? | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
sustain has been greatly improved for all junglers, and the ones that have benefited the most from spirit stone family changes are damage heavy champions for whom sustain was truly problematic in the jungle | ||
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Gahlo
United States35161 Posts
On February 21 2014 05:35 Kyrie wrote: that's quite bad It's pretty good without a leash. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On February 21 2014 05:17 cLutZ wrote: I laned with a ZAC support once, it seemed a lot similar to what I would imagine WW being like. He played like a sissy except at lvl 4 during a gank and lvl 6. It was actually fine, but IMO that is because Cait can 1v2, and I was Cait. Zac brings a lot more to the table than WW pre 6, he has a ranged move and 2 cc on him, like the thing about ww support is he actually can't do anything about ranged champions autoing his ad, while Zac can't do a lot more, he can actually slow or knock them up, and his all in(and gank support) is actually really strong due to his passive and multiple cc. not trying to advocate Zac as a top tier support but he actually brings a LOT more to the table than ww. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
you got me while i was editing the post after i noticed that it was in a custom it's still not 'pretty good', it's ok at best | ||
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