EPT[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 332
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:25 1ntrigue wrote: It's always easier to dodge skillshots as the support. ADCs have to be timing last hits, harass, dodging harass from the enemy bot duo, be map aware and control the creep wave. Supports have a much easier time of dodging because more of their attention is focused on it. Well aside from "timing last hits", supports have to harass, dodge harass, be aware of the map, and think about how to control the creep wave. They also have to watch the rest of the map, think about where to ward, when to call for jungle assistance, when to ping for the ADC to back, when to ping that you're gonna do something aggressive. Like don't make it sound like the ADC has so much work to do. Both ADC/Support have equal amount of burden and it isn't because one is more difficult or more consuming. | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:30 Zergneedsfood wrote: Well aside from "timing last hits", supports have to harass, dodge harass, be aware of the map, and think about how to control the creep wave. They also have to watch the rest of the map, think about where to ward, when to call for jungle assistance, when to ping for the ADC to back, when to ping that you're gonna do something aggressive. Like don't make it sound like the ADC has so much work to do. Both ADC/Support have equal amount of burden and it isn't because one is more difficult or more consuming. Playing ADC is straight up harder then playing support. The amount of things you have to worry about as support is a subset of the things you have wto worry about as an adc, in addition to last hitting, dealing with forced positioing due to last hitting, etc etc. There a reason why mechanically unskilled pro players generally tend to gravitate to support/jungle positions, simply due to that you won't get destroyed just from not having mechanics needed to lane. See Edward, StVicious... | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:33 dae wrote: Playing ADC is straight up harder then playing support. The amount of things you have to worry about as support is a subset of the things you have wto worry about as an adc, in addition to last hitting, dealing with forced positioing due to last hitting, etc etc. There a reason why mechanically unskilled pro players generally tend to gravitate to support/jungle positions, simply due to that you won't get destroyed just from not having mechanics needed to lane. See Edward, StVicious... I don't like this idea that a role that relies on a different set of skills is described as "harder" than another. I think most of what you said is equally important on supports and it's kind of strange how you bring this up when something that was talked about over and over again at worlds was not the positioning of the ADCs in lane but the supports and how they played, not the ADC, was what decided the lanes. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:30 Zergneedsfood wrote: Well aside from "timing last hits", supports have to harass, dodge harass, be aware of the map, and think about how to control the creep wave. They also have to watch the rest of the map, think about where to ward, when to call for jungle assistance, when to ping for the ADC to back, when to ping that you're gonna do something aggressive. Like don't make it sound like the ADC has so much work to do. Both ADC/Support have equal amount of burden and it isn't because one is more difficult or more consuming. Its just the need to CS that makes dodging hard. You are doing forced re-positioning all the time and standing still to auto. Its def much harder to dodge shit while CSing than it is to dodge shit when harassing and looking at the minimap, to say nothing of the relative difficulty of support vs AD. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:41 sob3k wrote: Its just the need to CS that makes dodging hard. You are doing forced re-positioning all the time and standing still to auto. Its def much harder to dodge shit while CSing than it is to dodge shit when harassing and looking at the minimap, to say nothing of the relative difficulty of support vs AD. That statement just seems weird to me, and maybe it's because Jinx's projectile doesn't go through creeps and from my experience one does not stray too far from his/her creep wave. No where am I saying that Jinx's thing should be dodged all the time, but I guess I question why some complain about getting poked down to 40% that Jinx is broken. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:43 Zergneedsfood wrote: That statement just seems weird to me, and maybe it's because Jinx's projectile doesn't go through creeps and from my experience one does not stray too far from his/her creep wave. No where am I saying that Jinx's thing should be dodged all the time, but I guess I question why some complain about getting poked down to 40% that Jinx is broken. It's pretty easy to avoid but it hurts when you fail (not complaining just observing). As a shit player I think it's the skillshot I dodge most readily, except when I think I'm out of range and then eat the last few pixels before it fades. I don't think the epeen difficulty argument is worth having, lets go back to talking about lanes that are strong vs jinx besides Lucian. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:33 dae wrote: Playing ADC is straight up harder then playing support. The amount of things you have to worry about as support is a subset of the things you have wto worry about as an adc, in addition to last hitting, dealing with forced positioing due to last hitting, etc etc. There a reason why mechanically unskilled pro players generally tend to gravitate to support/jungle positions, simply due to that you won't get destroyed just from not having mechanics needed to lane. See Edward, StVicious... Cant really compare it, although ADC is mechanically harder to play than support, but support requires alot of in-depth thinking, because you have to realize your potential from a low-income view. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:33 dae wrote: Playing ADC is straight up harder then playing support. The amount of things you have to worry about as support is a subset of the things you have wto worry about as an adc, in addition to last hitting, dealing with forced positioing due to last hitting, etc etc. There a reason why mechanically unskilled pro players generally tend to gravitate to support/jungle positions, simply due to that you won't get destroyed just from not having mechanics needed to lane. See Edward, StVicious... Wait gosupepper is your example? Really? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
Also, this just happened... kinda felt bad...+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q9otAo6.jpg) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On October 25 2013 14:40 Requizen wrote: Out of curiosity, is AA staff a normal buy on Xerath? I've been doing Chalice/Grail to remain spammy, don't know what other people do. I dunno, I never played him before. Also, its ARAM so I had a bit of help with mana with the healing things | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On October 25 2013 13:30 Zergneedsfood wrote: Well aside from "timing last hits", supports have to harass, dodge harass, be aware of the map, and think about how to control the creep wave. They also have to watch the rest of the map, think about where to ward, when to call for jungle assistance, when to ping for the ADC to back, when to ping that you're gonna do something aggressive. Like don't make it sound like the ADC has so much work to do. Both ADC/Support have equal amount of burden and it isn't because one is more difficult or more consuming. ADC is far more mechanically challenging to play in lane. Supports are almost never the target of harass, which makes them so much easier to play aggressively. I'm not trying to make support seems inferior to ADC - I'm merely stating that obvious in that in terms of mechanical skill in the laning phase, ADC is far more demanding. Another huge issue is that supports start with consumables and that makes its mechanical requirements far less demanding than ADCs that are trading, last hitting and trying to lifesteal up their hp. There's far more constant little decision-making involved with ADC (in terms of just positioning/leash range, ADC is already far more demanding) whereas a support's decision-making process is far simpler. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On October 25 2013 14:56 TheRabidDeer wrote: Speaking of starting with consumables... why do people start dorans instead of sword + hp pots? It doesnt build into anything so it is kind of like wasting gold, isnt it? Because if you start consumables you're just going to get bullied out of lane by the guy with dorans. And I imagine if you polled pro players they'd tell you that adc is the easiest role to play. I'd have to agree. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On October 25 2013 14:59 Brad` wrote: Because if you start consumables you're just going to get bullied out of lane by the guy with dorans. And I imagine if you polled pro players they'd tell you that adc is the easiest role to play. I'd have to agree. How can you get bullied out though? How does dorans stop that? Is it because of the slight health change? Isn't it possible to make up for that with an aggressive wave clear for an earlier back + buy? I mean if you start long sword you are basically up a first blood in gold, no? | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On October 25 2013 15:04 TheRabidDeer wrote: How can you get bullied out though? How does dorans stop that? Is it because of the slight health change? Isn't it possible to make up for that with an aggressive wave clear for an earlier back + buy? I mean if you start long sword you are basically up a first blood in gold, no? 80 Health at level 1 and 2 is not "slight". | ||
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