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On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup.
Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos.
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On September 12 2013 02:55 upperbound wrote:
I really don't think Fiora can bully Jax at any point. How does she ever win trades?
Corvette and I just played this matchup last night. I don't see what she can do against Jax with DShield start.
She uses QQ and then retreats. Dshield does not reduce its damage.
Against Doran Shield start you can do the same thing as always - get jungler ganks.
If all else fails, you can do Doran Shield + ninja tabi with homeguard and heal every few waves while farming.
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On September 12 2013 03:01 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup. Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos.
I would agree, Soniv's way is by far the better way for almost everybody. But if you can pull off what faker did(or a good approximation), you can zone far, far harder than W with stun at level 1 could.
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Yeah I mean, obviously Kassadin and Fizz don't care at all about Annie, they crush her because her auto harass won't do shit for them and they can ignore her and farm easily then just kill her when they're super rich.
...
Seriously? Fiora's got like 30-40 HP and 1-2 armour on these guys at level 1. But yeah auto harass won't do anything to Fiora, Fiora is invulnerable, Fiora is Christ's second coming.
What.
On September 12 2013 02:08 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:05 jcarlsoniv wrote:
edit: I would also love to see Shikyo play her - I only ever see her once in a while, but the ones that do play her often do well (likely because of people just losing because they aren't as familiar with her) yeah this is huge people who play a some what unorthodox champ in an unorthodox position, if they have some experience, can throw a lot of people off i've said it a lot but league players are fucking stupid and no one knows how to play against non fotm shit, so if you ge tsome competency with an unpopular hero its like free wins
People suck so much at dealing with Viktor. Even worse with squishies because the Augment skews your power timings (delays them compared to people rushing straight deathcap) and they think they can take you because they're a level and 2 kills ahead of you but suddenly you drop your ult and just kill them and they spam caps in all chat.
(When they're smart they notice that you don't ult nearly as often as them and they abuse your flat 120s cd, but I've only seen one person do that on purpose and he was playing Fizz, so he should be used to abusing standard 120/100/80 ults' cd.)
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On September 12 2013 03:01 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup. Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos.
Any Videos on that? I only find Faker vs Ryu (zed vs zed) What game are you talking about?
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On September 12 2013 02:16 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:02 silencefc wrote:On September 12 2013 01:58 NeoIllusions wrote:On September 12 2013 01:55 silencefc wrote:On September 12 2013 01:41 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 12 2013 01:13 silencefc wrote:I play Fiora every day in the TL inhouses. Definitely prefer her Mid. + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5vQ2tjQ.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/riSV2Ln.png) My CS sucks. So much roaming. Just think AD Fizz with no escape and better teamfighting. She is not a Melee AD Carry, her steroid only lasts for 3 damn seconds. Napkin math puts her 1v1 damage above Zed's, both base and ratio's. 3 stacks of E lets her outrun Bear Udyr lol. She doesn't work with all team comps. You had Leona (easily the best Leona NA), Varus, J4 in g1 and Leona, Amumu in g2. If you had top and bot lanes who didn't go so much CC you'd be a lot less effective. Not that it's a big gripe of mine to have a carry reliant on CC, but I felt like pointing out that you had her in good situations, I'd be curious if you could do the same without the same kind of setup for her. I'm sure I've beaten you on Fiora before at inhouses. I've lost once or twice as Fiora in an IH. A lot of viable champs have comps they absolutely suck in. I think Fiora fits in almost every comp that Zed and Fizz fits in, but Zed starts falling off when people buy QSS and Fizz can have a difficult time landing his ult in clumped up fights due to body blocks. Tiamat's Fiora Ult can deal disgusting amounts of damage in a teamfight and Burst of Speed resets. If you want to shut her down, have the jungler camp her. She's as gankable as Darius and Mordekaiser. If we're in the same IH tonight, let's do this. I assume you run her mid. My body is ready! She loses 100% to Pantheon btw. One of the hardest lanes I've ever played in. It's a much more difficult matchup than Jax is. Her worst matchup by far. You start 31 armor runes and cloth armor, rush ninja tabi with homeguard and go heal in between every few waves while farming. Do never ever try to trade with him.
Normally I ignore your nonsense, but if you think Jax is difficult as her, now I know you don't know how to play her.
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Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:09 Alaric wrote:
Yeah I mean, obviously Kassadin and Fizz don't care at all about Annie, they crush her because her auto harass won't do shit for them and they can ignore her and farm easily then just kill her when they're super rich.
To be fair, people had the wrong idea about Kassadin vs. Annie for the longest time because everyone assumed the W-max only-use-spells-on-him-when-you-have-a-stun way of playing Annie against him, which gets fucked because his Q interrupts your Q+W combo and trading Q-for-Q loses because of his passive.
Then people realized that you don't actually have to give a shit whether your stun is up or not because Q is a 4s CD point and click nuke that wins engagements off the fact that you get a 2nd and 3rd Q up in extended trades when they don't get their spells off CD.
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On September 12 2013 03:12 nosliw wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:01 Numy wrote:On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup. Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos. Any Videos on that? I only find Faker vs Ryu (zed vs zed) What game are you talking about?
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTk2NDI3MTA4.html
On September 12 2013 03:18 Shikyo wrote:
Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you.
You either have riposte, or you have Q. Riposte is once per 10s, and if annie levels Q in response, you'll get outtraded hard by a skill that hits harder on a (much) lower CD. If you level Q, and she levels E, once again, you lose. Annie doesn't have to skill a single thing until you've shown your first skill.
Also the heal is a really, really pathetic excuse for losing a trade by hundreds of HP
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On September 12 2013 03:18 Shikyo wrote:
Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you.
Annie has 625 AA range. You turn on her you're stunned in the creepwave. Fiora's heal is something in the ballpark of 10 HP over 6 seconds pre 6.
Saying Annie's AA doesn't matter is like saying a support's AA doesn't matter in bot-lane. They just risk being turned on and the AD is just going to heal it anyway!
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Shikyo obv knows much more about Fiora vs Annie than either soniv or 2sang.
Need Shikyo 2sang 1v1 Fiora Bo5 followed by Shikyo soniv 1v1 Fiora/Annie Bo5
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On September 12 2013 03:24 Lounge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:18 Shikyo wrote:
Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you. Annie has 625 AA range. You turn on her you're stunned in the creepwave. Fiora's heal is something in the ballpark of 10 HP over 6 seconds pre 6. Saying Annie's AA doesn't matter is like saying a support's AA doesn't matter in bot-lane. They just risk being turned on and the AD is just going to heal it anyway!
Now we know how Shikyo plays bot lane, no harassing necessary!
Annie only does 10 hp every 6 seconds anyways, so Fiora's all set from harass.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:27 Djin)ftw( wrote:Found a funny profile: Nice runes/csTough one
They guy probably had a lot of T1 runes while leveling, combined them all when he could use T3 runes, and then kept doing it because "in theory" it's worth it in regards to IP, it just takes forever for you to actually get usable sets of runes.
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On September 12 2013 03:31 TheYango wrote:They guy probably had a lot of T1 runes while leveling, combined them all when he could use T3 runes, and then kept doing it because "in theory" it's worth it in regards to IP, it just takes forever for you to actually get usable sets of runes.
Check out his masteries
Gotta get dat mana/hp regen
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but he had four pages so that means he spent at least 6300 on a 2 for 1? wouldn't you rather 2 good pages than 4 bad pages?
EDIT: oh god the names of the masteries makes it worse!
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He is bronze with 1500+ games played.
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On September 12 2013 03:20 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:12 nosliw wrote:On September 12 2013 03:01 Numy wrote:On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup. Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos. Any Videos on that? I only find Faker vs Ryu (zed vs zed) What game are you talking about? http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTk2NDI3MTA4.htmlShow nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:18 Shikyo wrote:
Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you. You either have riposte, or you have Q. Riposte is once per 10s, and if annie levels Q in response, you'll get outtraded hard by a skill that hits harder on a (much) lower CD. If you level Q, and she levels E, once again, you lose. Annie doesn't have to skill a single thing until you've shown your first skill. Also the heal is a really, really pathetic excuse for losing a trade by hundreds of HP
I think you're underestimating something about Fiora here ;S Her QautoQauto deals like 40% to someone who starts cloth armor
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Note about the Jax vs Fiora matchup: I have not tried it versus the new Dorans Shield starts that are popping up. Previously, you can simply start W and trade with him starting level 1 easily. Without the Dshield start, it plays out as a skill matchup that favors Jax ~6-4. Fiora beats Jax in pure AA trades when Jax doesn't burn E, and burning E gives her an opportunity to go all in (pre-6, post-6 Jax's damage catches up and it comes down to very good use of Riposte), with Jax, assuming no snowball against him, being able to catch up to Fiora at level 6.
I can imagine a Dshield start would absolutely curb her early game dominance however, and her window to establish lane dominance. I'd have to play the matchup again, but it would likely make the matchup significantly harder.
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On September 12 2013 03:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:20 Amui wrote:On September 12 2013 03:12 nosliw wrote:On September 12 2013 03:01 Numy wrote:On September 12 2013 02:57 Amui wrote:
IMO annie wins.
Don't take a skill at level 1 until you figure out what fiora got. Play aggressively and auto, and force her out of the creep wave. If she goes on you with Q, skill E and use it, if she ripostes, level Q and continue whaling on her. Fiora should basically never see a CS for the first couple of waves.
See Faker vs Roar(ori vs Zed) for the general idea of how to play the matchup. Fakers lane control was so pristine that was amazing. I don't think a lot of people can zone that well in mid without pushing the wave or eating a lot of creep autos. Any Videos on that? I only find Faker vs Ryu (zed vs zed) What game are you talking about? http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTk2NDI3MTA4.htmlOn September 12 2013 03:18 Shikyo wrote:
Um again, the reason why Fiora doesn't really care about autoharrass is first of all because of Riposte and her heal. Second, because she can turn on you. You either have riposte, or you have Q. Riposte is once per 10s, and if annie levels Q in response, you'll get outtraded hard by a skill that hits harder on a (much) lower CD. If you level Q, and she levels E, once again, you lose. Annie doesn't have to skill a single thing until you've shown your first skill. Also the heal is a really, really pathetic excuse for losing a trade by hundreds of HP I think you're underestimating something about Fiora here ;S Her QautoQauto deals like 40% to someone who starts cloth armor
And how much damage will you take in return? Say you go at lvl 1. Your regen is not going to counteract the damage that you took from a W stun inside minions + autos. Say you're not lvl 1 - you're taking multiple skills to the face, again, inside/near minions.
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EPT
