On October 01 2013 05:52 AsmodeusXI wrote: I mean, I think we're still at a point where LoL is new enough that managers don't know what managing MEANS yet. This may mean no one will ever learn or it might mean that we just need to wait for people to figure it out.
And I mean in NA. Asia seems to have it down at least.
This also might apply to all eSports.
I don't really think that's a viable excuse tbh.
If you're the manager, your job is to manage everything. Everything. Negligence isn't an excuse to avoid responsibility if you made a mistake on the job. It's still a mistake, and can certainly be learned from, but I don't think it's a good enough excuse to just say "oops we didn't know better"...especially after seeing some past examples.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much though.
No, you're right.
Starting and managing a team is like starting and owning a business. No one is going to baby you, but there's plenty of materials out there on how to do it and you can ask people for help. Riot shouldn't sit down managers and give them a lesson in business and management - you should be aware of the risks going into something like this. And if you aren't, well, it's nobody's fault but your own.
Except managers aren't typically the ones starting teams. the players are. teams will hire a 'manager' after qualifying or while trying to qualify so they can focus. These people don't answer to organizations, and are being directly paid by riot to do their job. riot should tell them what that job is.
If managers are being hired by the team, then it's the team's responsibility to hire a competent manager. It's the fault of the team in that case if they haven't found someone with a brain.
The fact that Riot pays the team salary muddies the waters of the logistics a bit, but that doesn't make it any less the team's responsibility.
If the team is made of like 17-18 year olds, with no life skills. How da fuq do you expect them to choose the right person to manage the team?
And yet, 18 years is old enough to vote, marry, choose your career/education path, and more.
And look at how well those relationships turn out when people who are 18 years old decide to get married. I think you just disproved your own point there lol.
if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
On October 01 2013 05:52 AsmodeusXI wrote: I mean, I think we're still at a point where LoL is new enough that managers don't know what managing MEANS yet. This may mean no one will ever learn or it might mean that we just need to wait for people to figure it out.
And I mean in NA. Asia seems to have it down at least.
This also might apply to all eSports.
I don't really think that's a viable excuse tbh.
If you're the manager, your job is to manage everything. Everything. Negligence isn't an excuse to avoid responsibility if you made a mistake on the job. It's still a mistake, and can certainly be learned from, but I don't think it's a good enough excuse to just say "oops we didn't know better"...especially after seeing some past examples.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much though.
No, you're right.
Starting and managing a team is like starting and owning a business. No one is going to baby you, but there's plenty of materials out there on how to do it and you can ask people for help. Riot shouldn't sit down managers and give them a lesson in business and management - you should be aware of the risks going into something like this. And if you aren't, well, it's nobody's fault but your own.
Except managers aren't typically the ones starting teams. the players are. teams will hire a 'manager' after qualifying or while trying to qualify so they can focus. These people don't answer to organizations, and are being directly paid by riot to do their job. riot should tell them what that job is.
If managers are being hired by the team, then it's the team's responsibility to hire a competent manager. It's the fault of the team in that case if they haven't found someone with a brain.
The fact that Riot pays the team salary muddies the waters of the logistics a bit, but that doesn't make it any less the team's responsibility.
If the team is made of like 17-18 year olds, with no life skills. How da fuq do you expect them to choose the right person to manage the team?
And yet, 18 years is old enough to vote, marry, choose your career/education path, and more.
And look at how well those relationships turn out when people who are 18 years old decide to get married. I think you just disproved your own point there lol.
O RLY:
Turns out that 20-24 is actually the worst age to get married for both men and women. Better stop them from voting and shit.
On October 01 2013 06:55 PrinceXizor wrote: if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
Riot's "sponsorship" of LCS teams is limited to the salary afaik, which, imo is basically the prize money you get for qualifying for LCS. To my knowledge, Riot basically hands the teams a check and then is pretty darn hands off.
I'm also a bit lost as to what exactly you mean by Riot is "half ass"-ing their involvement with Worlds and LCS. They've done pretty much everything that can be reasonably expected of them. As rich as Riot may be, I highly doubt they have the resources to actually manage on a micro level all 16 teams in the LCS. It's also arguably a very bad thing for Riot to have such tight control of the teams. I'm also willing to bet that if Riot did manage the LCS teams you'd get a ton of people screaming about Riot being too controlling of the scene.
Esports in NA is young. These things take time for teams and people to learn. When BW was in its early days management of teams and players was virtually non-existant and it took what? 4? 5? years before the scene stabilized and Kespa really took the reins.
Ofc it could be that under 20 are arranged marriages that have social and religious pressures which prevent divorce. So it's hard to read too much into it without context and further information.
Regarding managers: I don't think the managerial positions in eSports teams pay that well which means you need people who are willing to take those jobs because they enjoy the job rather than because they are professional managers so asking for qualifications etc is a but overkill imo.
Also, you have a lot of people who are well-meaned but they don't have the proper experience, skillset of knowledge to actually manage a team. For instance, several SC teams have tried team houses but it hasn't worked even when their managers were well-respected and nice people.
On October 01 2013 06:55 PrinceXizor wrote: if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
Riot's "sponsorship" of LCS teams is limited to the salary afaik, which, imo is basically the prize money you get for qualifying for LCS.
I'm also a bit lost as to what exactly you mean by Riot is "half ass"-ing their involvement with Worlds and LCS. They've done pretty much everything that can be reasonably expected of them. As rich as Riot may be, I highly doubt they have the resources to actually manage on a micro level all 16 teams in the LCS. It's also arguably a very bad thing for Riot to have such tight control of the teams. I'm also willing to bet that if Riot did manage the LCS teams you'd get a ton of people screaming about Riot being too controlling of the scene.
Esports in NA is young. These things take time for teams and people to learn. When BW was in its early days management of teams and players was virtually non-existant and it took what? 4? 5? years before the scene stabilized and Kespa really took the reins.
i asked for a power point presentation for new managers, and get accused of asking riot to micromanage every aspect of teams?
On October 01 2013 06:40 gtrsrs wrote: i honestly feel like all of the managers in the NALCS right now are really solid all of them are super smart, hard-working people. bad managers will come and go but as the scene becomes more established, the quality of management (as well as quality of play) will steadily rise as people get more experienced.
What is the relationship like between managers? If you had a question about training/schedules/living arrangements, would you feel comfortable calling up a manager on another team and chatting about policies?
i'm on extremely good terms with all of the managers. i reached out most frequently to kelby and gnome (clg and vulcun, respectively) for help with housing and getting the team off the ground, but i've also gotten help and advice from jack, david (coast), odee, and steve (curse - who were most generous in offering us a place to stay during our trip to LA)
Also, it's gonna be hard to find truly qualified managers when you don't have the money to incentivize them to work for you. Teams like TSM, CLG, Curse have good managers because they're a huge brand with tons of money. Up and coming teams don't have that backing. You're basically limited to finding people with passion for esports, who honestly may not have much experience. Becoming a manager of a team is a HUGE investment - you're giving up a lot of time and potential money you could be making at another, arguably more stable job. You're also completely at the mercy of the team you're managing in that if the team you manage sucks and gets kicked out of LCS, you're potentially out of a job. Managing a new LCS team is a high risk, low return venture, making finding a truly qualified person a harder task than you'd imagine.
On October 01 2013 06:55 PrinceXizor wrote: if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
Riot's "sponsorship" of LCS teams is limited to the salary afaik, which, imo is basically the prize money you get for qualifying for LCS.
I'm also a bit lost as to what exactly you mean by Riot is "half ass"-ing their involvement with Worlds and LCS. They've done pretty much everything that can be reasonably expected of them. As rich as Riot may be, I highly doubt they have the resources to actually manage on a micro level all 16 teams in the LCS. It's also arguably a very bad thing for Riot to have such tight control of the teams. I'm also willing to bet that if Riot did manage the LCS teams you'd get a ton of people screaming about Riot being too controlling of the scene.
Esports in NA is young. These things take time for teams and people to learn. When BW was in its early days management of teams and players was virtually non-existant and it took what? 4? 5? years before the scene stabilized and Kespa really took the reins.
i asked for a power point presentation for new managers, and get accused of asking riot to micromanage every aspect of teams?
the post I quoted seemed to be insinuating at much more than simply a power point presentation, but if that's really what you were getting at then I misunderstood you and I apologize.
You also have to be kidding me if you think a simple power point presentation detailing out what a manager needs to do is sufficient for someone to be able to manage a pro gaming team.
On October 01 2013 05:52 AsmodeusXI wrote: I mean, I think we're still at a point where LoL is new enough that managers don't know what managing MEANS yet. This may mean no one will ever learn or it might mean that we just need to wait for people to figure it out.
And I mean in NA. Asia seems to have it down at least.
This also might apply to all eSports.
I don't really think that's a viable excuse tbh.
If you're the manager, your job is to manage everything. Everything. Negligence isn't an excuse to avoid responsibility if you made a mistake on the job. It's still a mistake, and can certainly be learned from, but I don't think it's a good enough excuse to just say "oops we didn't know better"...especially after seeing some past examples.
Maybe I'm just expecting too much though.
No, you're right.
Starting and managing a team is like starting and owning a business. No one is going to baby you, but there's plenty of materials out there on how to do it and you can ask people for help. Riot shouldn't sit down managers and give them a lesson in business and management - you should be aware of the risks going into something like this. And if you aren't, well, it's nobody's fault but your own.
Except managers aren't typically the ones starting teams. the players are. teams will hire a 'manager' after qualifying or while trying to qualify so they can focus. These people don't answer to organizations, and are being directly paid by riot to do their job. riot should tell them what that job is.
If managers are being hired by the team, then it's the team's responsibility to hire a competent manager. It's the fault of the team in that case if they haven't found someone with a brain.
The fact that Riot pays the team salary muddies the waters of the logistics a bit, but that doesn't make it any less the team's responsibility.
If the team is made of like 17-18 year olds, with no life skills. How da fuq do you expect them to choose the right person to manage the team?
And yet, 18 years is old enough to vote, marry, choose your career/education path, and more.
And look at how well those relationships turn out when people who are 18 years old decide to get married. I think you just disproved your own point there lol.
O RLY:
Turns out that 20-24 is actually the worst age to get married for both men and women. Better stop them from voting and shit.
The reason the super young last is religon, there are very religious people who get married super young, and are far less likely to divorce, even if the mariage isnt' working.
Another bias is that it's almost everyones first marriage, which also have a higher success rate.
Edit* marriage is the leading cause of divorce, If you really wanna avoid divorce, simply don't get married
On October 01 2013 07:03 MoonBear wrote: Ofc it could be that under 20 are arranged marriages that have social and religious pressures which prevent divorce. So it's hard to read too much into it without context and further information.
[citation needed]
Pithy jabs aside, I find it saddening that we inherently assume it's normal for 17-18 year olds to have zero life skills. They certainly can't be expected to have complete life skills, but none at all? Depressing.
On October 01 2013 06:40 gtrsrs wrote: i honestly feel like all of the managers in the NALCS right now are really solid all of them are super smart, hard-working people. bad managers will come and go but as the scene becomes more established, the quality of management (as well as quality of play) will steadily rise as people get more experienced.
What is the relationship like between managers? If you had a question about training/schedules/living arrangements, would you feel comfortable calling up a manager on another team and chatting about policies?
i'm on extremely good terms with all of the managers. i reached out most frequently to kelby and gnome (clg and vulcun, respectively) for help with housing and getting the team off the ground, but i've also gotten help and advice from jack, david (coast), odee, and steve (curse - who were most generous in offering us a place to stay during our trip to LA)
Interesting to hear, I was wondering about that dynamic.
On October 01 2013 07:08 Ryuu314 wrote: Also, it's gonna be hard to find truly qualified managers when you don't have the money to incentivize them to work for you. Teams like TSM, CLG, Curse have good managers because they're a huge brand with tons of money. Up and coming teams don't have that backing. You're basically limited to finding people with passion for esports, who honestly may not have much experience. Becoming a manager of a team is a HUGE investment - you're giving up a lot of time and potential money you could be making at another, arguably more stable job. You're also completely at the mercy of the team you're managing in that if the team you manage sucks and gets kicked out of LCS, you're potentially out of a job. Managing a new LCS team is a high risk, low return venture, making finding a truly qualified person a harder task than you'd imagine.
And yet, I'm 100% sure there are talented people who would take that risk. I would give my leg to work in eSports, even if I knew it meant worse benefits, longer hours, and a pay cut. Look at the viewing numbers for Worlds. Look at the number of LoL players. Look at how many people Riot has hired recently. You really think there isn't a market for people willing to take a chance to manage a team, even if it falls through?
On October 01 2013 06:55 PrinceXizor wrote: if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
Riot's "sponsorship" of LCS teams is limited to the salary afaik, which, imo is basically the prize money you get for qualifying for LCS.
I'm also a bit lost as to what exactly you mean by Riot is "half ass"-ing their involvement with Worlds and LCS. They've done pretty much everything that can be reasonably expected of them. As rich as Riot may be, I highly doubt they have the resources to actually manage on a micro level all 16 teams in the LCS. It's also arguably a very bad thing for Riot to have such tight control of the teams. I'm also willing to bet that if Riot did manage the LCS teams you'd get a ton of people screaming about Riot being too controlling of the scene.
Esports in NA is young. These things take time for teams and people to learn. When BW was in its early days management of teams and players was virtually non-existant and it took what? 4? 5? years before the scene stabilized and Kespa really took the reins.
i asked for a power point presentation for new managers, and get accused of asking riot to micromanage every aspect of teams?
That's pretty much what you were saying, yeah. "halfway is bad" --> "Riot should either do nothing or manage the shit out of teams"
And where have you ever mentioned a powerpoint presentation lol.
i think an amateur team that qualifies for the LCS would be much better off hiring a team mom than a team manager. they don't need someone book them gigs, negotiate salary, or make sure they get paid on time; riot makes all of that a non-issue.
all they really need is a comfortable place to sleep/play and someone to tell them when lunch and dinner is ready so they can practice 8-10 hours a day without having to worry about any kind of real life stuff. that's way more important than some manager getting you free mousepads and shit.
On October 01 2013 06:55 PrinceXizor wrote: if riot isn't going to provide help with how to handle their team, they shouldn't be the sponsor of the team either.riot shouldn't half ass every part of the lcs. Riot is the primary sponsor/boss of teams coming into the LCS, they should be helping the teams or they should put the money into prizepools and be totally hands off. halfway is bad. thats been proven over and over again with worlds and LCS.
Riot's "sponsorship" of LCS teams is limited to the salary afaik, which, imo is basically the prize money you get for qualifying for LCS.
I'm also a bit lost as to what exactly you mean by Riot is "half ass"-ing their involvement with Worlds and LCS. They've done pretty much everything that can be reasonably expected of them. As rich as Riot may be, I highly doubt they have the resources to actually manage on a micro level all 16 teams in the LCS. It's also arguably a very bad thing for Riot to have such tight control of the teams. I'm also willing to bet that if Riot did manage the LCS teams you'd get a ton of people screaming about Riot being too controlling of the scene.
Esports in NA is young. These things take time for teams and people to learn. When BW was in its early days management of teams and players was virtually non-existant and it took what? 4? 5? years before the scene stabilized and Kespa really took the reins.
i asked for a power point presentation for new managers, and get accused of asking riot to micromanage every aspect of teams?
oh man. do i get a powerpoint on how to not get scurvy when my company hires me for my new job?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YnWYjqw.png)
