• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:43
CEST 09:43
KST 16:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1495 users

[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 11

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 331 Next
No more bad posting
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
July 31 2013 04:55 GMT
#201
The counterplay to the video you posted obesechicken is backing off as soon as you see the enemy middle laner leaving his lane.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:01:22
July 31 2013 05:00 GMT
#202
On July 31 2013 13:22 Dark_Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 13:03 Amarok wrote:
On July 31 2013 12:39 Dark_Chill wrote:
On July 31 2013 12:00 Amarok wrote:
On July 31 2013 11:36 TheYango wrote:
On July 31 2013 11:17 Amarok wrote:
I'm not 100% convinced on how "rubbish" some of the support items are anyway. Twin Shadows has some great utility throughout the game, Crucible is awesome in certain situations and I doubt the situational usefulness of Shard gets explored enough, particularly on supports that get value out of AP (Zyra and Karma stand out in this regard).

Empirically, "pretty good" has never been good enough for a support item to be bought over wards and oracles. The only items that ever actually stood out enough were stuff like pre-nerf Shurelya's that were just that good.


I guess my point is that I think the items are actually a bit better than "pretty good" in certain situations. For example chalice/crucible is amazing on Sona against all-in comps with poke components, particularly if they have some magic damage. Varus/Leona for example gets shut down pretty hard by it. I could see Shard being useful as a Zyra with a fed Akali on her team that isn't building Rylai's (for whatever reason). I find the dismissal of Shard particularly confusing given that a slow field is, in a general sense, something that is generally pretty useful. We get way too hung up on the chasing/offensive component of the Twin Shadows active dropping off and forget that all game it retains usefulness in situations where you're warding/clearing vision or even kiting defensively. Not to mention there's a mantra about the "stat that shall not be named" being useless on supports when that's very clearly not the case, or at least not always the case.

Thing is it's pretty much impossible for players to really apply any of this stuff when Locket is so incredibly strong. I should be able to be rewarded for building correctly for a situation, not punished because I didn't buy an item that's always better than every option.


I think most people are arguing that those items should be better through build path or lower cost. The crux of the argument is that since they're not good enough for other champs to buy, then no one is going to buy them.
I can see twin shadows being really good like this:

Twin Shadows (NNM+400g)
-20 mr
-6%ms
-Active: Hunt

Shard of True Ice (amp tome+faerie+200g)
-25ap
-6regen
Active: Blizzard

I don't know how good these are, but they have most of their worth in their actives (I think) and could be good enough for solo laners early on in some situations (a roaming mid getting some mr, or maybe a jungler who needs to stick to targets when ganking).


I don't think Riot wants to implement something that could drastically change the way the other lanes play though. An active like Hunt on an item purchasable in the very early game sounds obscenely strong on face value. Reading Xyph's comments on Phage I can understand this being something they would want to steer clear of.


Wasn't that because it was a really good win-harder item? Plus, hp+ad with a decent buildup is going to be pretty good.
If Twin and Shard had most of their cost in the actives and had low costs, I can't see how they would get to be too much of a problem. I would think that variety to compliment different champs/lanes and try to advance an advantage/create an advantage should be encouraged in the game.

The reason Xyph said that about Phage is that very LITTLE gold was spent on the passive before the +200 gold cost increase - it was mostly cost efficient on HP and AD alone, which meant it let you buy stats that were only slightly less efficient than 2x Doran's, while also extending trades via the slow - which when you're already ahead, was really really strong.

If you're spending gold to get the active without also getting cost efficient stats used for murder, it's not going to be as frustrating. (Especially since active items have long cooldowns that can be played around, while Phage has no cooldown.)
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:07:47
July 31 2013 05:07 GMT
#203
Honest question, what the crap item do I buy on supports now. I just bought what is probably my last Locket for a long time. Aegis doesn't seem very useful for support, I don't believe in twin shadows. Back to Shurelias if I can somehow afford it?

Try to get zeke's eventually, even though the stats are awkward selfishly? I do love me some 20% CDR.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
July 31 2013 05:07 GMT
#204
On July 31 2013 14:07 sylverfyre wrote:
Honest question, what the crap item do I buy on supports now. I just bought what is probably my last Locket for a long time. Aegis doesn't seem very useful for support, I don't believe in twin shadows. Back to Shurelias if I can somehow afford it?

Sightstone and Oracles. Enjoy being a wardbitch.
It's your boy Guzma!
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:10:39
July 31 2013 05:08 GMT
#205
On July 31 2013 13:55 Scip wrote:
The counterplay to the video you posted obesechicken is backing off as soon as you see the enemy middle laner leaving his lane.

Not killing the small lizards when the mid laner is killing you might also help. Jax literally got red, then killed the small lizards before turning to run from KZ.

On July 31 2013 14:07 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 14:07 sylverfyre wrote:
Honest question, what the crap item do I buy on supports now. I just bought what is probably my last Locket for a long time. Aegis doesn't seem very useful for support, I don't believe in twin shadows. Back to Shurelias if I can somehow afford it?

Sightstone and Oracles. Enjoy being a wardbitch.

Silver/Gold elo games give me too many assists to spend it all on wards because there's so much murder going on. I'm even running health/AD on quints already.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
July 31 2013 05:10 GMT
#206
On July 31 2013 13:45 Deftscythe wrote:
A shake-up this big this late in the season will probably be the end of VES's chances for this season in LCS, but I feel like overall they're going to be a stronger team for it if someone can step up to be the new shot-caller. If that can happen before relegation (which is after worlds? Not sure) and VES can get back in for next year, I think they'll give a much better showing.


to be fair, playoffs are completely out of our reach without divine intervention. 7th place is barely doable (coast second half of schedule is pretty brutal imo), 6th requires massive brainfarts by dig or curse. the problem is all the upper-mid teams lose to the lower-mid teams, so the next week the upper-mids and lower-mids switch and then the cycle repeats. it's a testament to how close the scene as a whole is (which i like) but at the same time i have been praying for some team to just consistently beat the other so we could grasp at some straws XD

but we're not going to give up trying, no matter what. just pray for that divine intervention!
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
July 31 2013 05:10 GMT
#207
Support itemization now sucks.

I would like to draw your attention to this point:

Voracious Corrosion
No longer reduces the target's Attack Damage by 50%
Now reduces the physical and magic damage the target deals to Nashor by 50%

This is actually the most significant change for the pro scene.
Reduces NA throws by 50%
No longer reduces Dig's winrate by 50%
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:12:36
July 31 2013 05:12 GMT
#208
On July 31 2013 13:17 TheYango wrote:
Soul Shroud was honesty a better item than Shard of True Ice for something that uses mana manip.


I agree, although soul shroud itself is pretty awkward and not a great item to have around... the stats still make more sense than on shard.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
July 31 2013 05:16 GMT
#209
Next up is Outer turrets now gain 60 bonus Armor at the start of the game, which starts decaying after 4 minutes have passed and finishes decaying 4 minutes later

If it leads to more freezing, rip 1v2 laner chances of doing anything. Well he could transition to support itemization..... oh wait.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:17:35
July 31 2013 05:16 GMT
#210
On July 31 2013 14:10 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 13:45 Deftscythe wrote:
A shake-up this big this late in the season will probably be the end of VES's chances for this season in LCS, but I feel like overall they're going to be a stronger team for it if someone can step up to be the new shot-caller. If that can happen before relegation (which is after worlds? Not sure) and VES can get back in for next year, I think they'll give a much better showing.


to be fair, playoffs are completely out of our reach without divine intervention. 7th place is barely doable (coast second half of schedule is pretty brutal imo), 6th requires massive brainfarts by dig or curse. the problem is all the upper-mid teams lose to the lower-mid teams, so the next week the upper-mids and lower-mids switch and then the cycle repeats. it's a testament to how close the scene as a whole is (which i like) but at the same time i have been praying for some team to just consistently beat the other so we could grasp at some straws XD

but we're not going to give up trying, no matter what. just pray for that divine intervention!

hey, you guys have a better winrate v. CLG than TSM. therefore you're better than TSM. you guys got dis.

on a more serious note i'm still quite impressed by velocity' even if their results aren't great.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
July 31 2013 05:19 GMT
#211
WOAH I randomly clicked on one of my old posts and got sent to the previous GD thread and heard dat "DAAAWKNESS".

I like it.
Forever Young
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 31 2013 05:19 GMT
#212
On July 31 2013 13:17 TheYango wrote:
Soul Shroud was honesty a better item than Shard of True Ice for something that uses mana manip.

Soul shroud one of my favorite items. Shame too; aura cdr would probably be so fucking strong right now in pro play, considering how fast teams groups up now.
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 31 2013 05:20 GMT
#213
On July 31 2013 14:10 cascades wrote:
Support itemization now sucks.

I would like to draw your attention to this point:

Voracious Corrosion
No longer reduces the target's Attack Damage by 50%
Now reduces the physical and magic damage the target deals to Nashor by 50%

This is actually the most significant change for the pro scene.
Reduces NA throws by 50%
No longer reduces Dig's winrate by 50%

dig will probably still be low enough health after attempting Baron to still lose anyway.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
July 31 2013 05:21 GMT
#214
On July 31 2013 14:16 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 14:10 gtrsrs wrote:
On July 31 2013 13:45 Deftscythe wrote:
A shake-up this big this late in the season will probably be the end of VES's chances for this season in LCS, but I feel like overall they're going to be a stronger team for it if someone can step up to be the new shot-caller. If that can happen before relegation (which is after worlds? Not sure) and VES can get back in for next year, I think they'll give a much better showing.


to be fair, playoffs are completely out of our reach without divine intervention. 7th place is barely doable (coast second half of schedule is pretty brutal imo), 6th requires massive brainfarts by dig or curse. the problem is all the upper-mid teams lose to the lower-mid teams, so the next week the upper-mids and lower-mids switch and then the cycle repeats. it's a testament to how close the scene as a whole is (which i like) but at the same time i have been praying for some team to just consistently beat the other so we could grasp at some straws XD

but we're not going to give up trying, no matter what. just pray for that divine intervention!

hey, you guys have a better winrate v. CLG than TSM. therefore you're better than TSM. you guys got dis.

on a more serious note i'm still quite impressed by velocity' even if their results aren't great.


thanks a lot man
again, we won't give up trying, playoffs are ca$h munnay and so there's motivation there, even if we have to pray for a small miracle to make it AND win like 7 of our 8 matches

but it's always nice to hear from supporters, it truly does mean a lot, so thank you
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 31 2013 05:25 GMT
#215
On July 31 2013 14:21 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 14:16 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 31 2013 14:10 gtrsrs wrote:
On July 31 2013 13:45 Deftscythe wrote:
A shake-up this big this late in the season will probably be the end of VES's chances for this season in LCS, but I feel like overall they're going to be a stronger team for it if someone can step up to be the new shot-caller. If that can happen before relegation (which is after worlds? Not sure) and VES can get back in for next year, I think they'll give a much better showing.


to be fair, playoffs are completely out of our reach without divine intervention. 7th place is barely doable (coast second half of schedule is pretty brutal imo), 6th requires massive brainfarts by dig or curse. the problem is all the upper-mid teams lose to the lower-mid teams, so the next week the upper-mids and lower-mids switch and then the cycle repeats. it's a testament to how close the scene as a whole is (which i like) but at the same time i have been praying for some team to just consistently beat the other so we could grasp at some straws XD

but we're not going to give up trying, no matter what. just pray for that divine intervention!

hey, you guys have a better winrate v. CLG than TSM. therefore you're better than TSM. you guys got dis.

on a more serious note i'm still quite impressed by velocity' even if their results aren't great.


thanks a lot man
again, we won't give up trying, playoffs are ca$h munnay and so there's motivation there, even if we have to pray for a small miracle to make it AND win like 7 of our 8 matches

but it's always nice to hear from supporters, it truly does mean a lot, so thank you

Even though you guys got slimshot at playoffs; at least take advantage of what's left in LCS to prep you guys for relegation matches, so you guys don't drop out. Would love to see more play from you guys.
liftlift > tsm
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
July 31 2013 05:29 GMT
#216
On July 31 2013 14:25 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2013 14:21 gtrsrs wrote:
On July 31 2013 14:16 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 31 2013 14:10 gtrsrs wrote:
On July 31 2013 13:45 Deftscythe wrote:
A shake-up this big this late in the season will probably be the end of VES's chances for this season in LCS, but I feel like overall they're going to be a stronger team for it if someone can step up to be the new shot-caller. If that can happen before relegation (which is after worlds? Not sure) and VES can get back in for next year, I think they'll give a much better showing.


to be fair, playoffs are completely out of our reach without divine intervention. 7th place is barely doable (coast second half of schedule is pretty brutal imo), 6th requires massive brainfarts by dig or curse. the problem is all the upper-mid teams lose to the lower-mid teams, so the next week the upper-mids and lower-mids switch and then the cycle repeats. it's a testament to how close the scene as a whole is (which i like) but at the same time i have been praying for some team to just consistently beat the other so we could grasp at some straws XD

but we're not going to give up trying, no matter what. just pray for that divine intervention!

hey, you guys have a better winrate v. CLG than TSM. therefore you're better than TSM. you guys got dis.

on a more serious note i'm still quite impressed by velocity' even if their results aren't great.


thanks a lot man
again, we won't give up trying, playoffs are ca$h munnay and so there's motivation there, even if we have to pray for a small miracle to make it AND win like 7 of our 8 matches

but it's always nice to hear from supporters, it truly does mean a lot, so thank you

Even though you guys got slimshot at playoffs; at least take advantage of what's left in LCS to prep you guys for relegation matches, so you guys don't drop out. Would love to see more play from you guys.


i quit my job and moved out of my comfy apartment with my girlfriend so i'm not gonna let them drop out after 1 split
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 31 2013 05:35 GMT
#217
I wonder if their are any plans to expand LCS to more teams; as to make regular season more meaningful? 6 out of 8 makes playoff is pretty ridiculous,
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:43:13
July 31 2013 05:42 GMT
#218
On July 31 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
I wonder if their are any plans to expand LCS to more teams; as to make regular season more meaningful? 6 out of 8 makes playoff is pretty ridiculous,

Riot pls.

I feel like they will probably expand it to at least 12 teams. I would like 16 though, but doubling the teams is asking too much.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
July 31 2013 05:42 GMT
#219
On July 31 2013 14:35 wei2coolman wrote:
I wonder if their are any plans to expand LCS to more teams; as to make regular season more meaningful? 6 out of 8 makes playoff is pretty ridiculous,


Absolutely 100% agreed. More teams or less playoff spots.
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-31 05:48:48
July 31 2013 05:46 GMT
#220
Make a b-league for more teams IMO, maybe online during the week? Could fly them in for their own super week lol.First post from iPhone yay lol sitting in srilankan visa office lol
Useless wet fish.
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 331 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft536
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6054
GuemChi 3257
JYJ 476
HiyA 76
Backho 41
NaDa 33
Mong 25
Bale 16
Noble 13
Larva 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm116
League of Legends
JimRising 598
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1101
shoxiejesuss667
allub48
Other Games
summit1g13423
C9.Mang0282
monkeys_forever167
RuFF_SC241
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick686
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH212
• LUISG 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 18m
Wardi Open
4h 18m
Monday Night Weeklies
8h 18m
Replay Cast
16h 18m
The PondCast
1d 2h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 3h
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Flash vs Soma
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
2026 GSL S1
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.