[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…

On July 28 2013 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:

Eh.. Its not thats its bullshit. many games are uncarry-able within reason. you have to be vastly better than the players around you to carry some games. Assuming any given person can play as well as double lift and using that as an argument that anyone can win every game is dumb.

On July 28 2013 08:26 wussleeQ wrote:

he's usually duoing with chau... 2 pro level players communicating with each other is not the same as a bunch of soloq players trying to carry. also, they're gold lol.

On July 28 2013 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:

Eh.. Its not thats its bullshit. many games are uncarry-able within reason. you have to be vastly better than the players around you to carry some games. Assuming any given person can play as well as double lift and using that as an argument that anyone can win every game is dumb.

On July 28 2013 08:22 wei2coolman wrote:

That's why I think most claims of "uncarry-able" games is bullshit

On July 28 2013 08:22 wei2coolman wrote:

That's why I think most claims of "uncarry-able" games is bullshit

On July 28 2013 08:30 wei2coolman wrote:

Most claims of uncarry-able solo queue games come from plat and below. The truth is, if you're good enough you can carry most games. The losses are squarely on your shoulders. Got 200 losses and still silver? Guess what, any pro would've win 195 of the games you loss. There's no thing such thing as uncarryable.

On July 28 2013 08:39 GolemMadness wrote:


If that were the case, then pro players would win 100% of their games on smurfs in low elo. But they don't. Obviously a lot of the time people exaggerate the situation, but plenty of games there's not much you can do with the teammates you have.

On July 28 2013 08:37 TheYango wrote:

Well you have to be vastly better than the players in your games to deserve a higher rating.

Put it this way--natural statistical fluctuation in your player rating tends to be quite high. In order for the system to determine that you deserve to be in a higher league, you have to be so much better than players at your current rating that you outperform that fluctuation. Which consequently means that its simply not good enough to be a little bit better than the other players in your games, because that's simply not enough for the system to know that you're not just lucky or on a hot streak, but legitimately better.

EDIT: Come to think of it, you probably know this already and I probably didn't address what you said at all, lol.

On July 28 2013 09:06 PrinceXizor wrote:

yeah thats pretty much what i was saying, except referring to individual games rather than overall ranking. If what is required of you is beyond your capability within reason, then that game is uncarryable. If I can play at best as well as a diamond player but what is required of me is to play as well as a top challenger player, then i'm not going to be able to carry that game. and its unreasonable to assume that at my current ELO/MMR (gold) someone has that capability. All doublelifts games shoe is that the Matchmaking system riot uses doesn't detect smurfs soon enough.

On July 28 2013 09:49 Hyren wrote:
I thought people were relatively happy with HOTS balance, then I read the comments in that David Kim interview and realized SC2 players are just as salty towards Blizzard as ever :S

On July 28 2013 10:27 canikizu wrote:
It's also because of game design that makes it hard to carry by yourself. In Dota2, you can easily carry the game by yourself very often, especially if you play heroes like sf, antimage,.v..v. But in LoL, there're no champs that you can carry the game by yourself

LoL game is designed so that to carry the game, you have to go glass cannon route, and since you're glass, it's very hard to 1v5 even if your farm/items are far ahead. On the other hand, dota is design so that stats and items for carry always have some kind of sustain, and it gets to the point that if you get enough items you can pretty much carry the game by yourself.

On July 28 2013 09:04 Lmui wrote:


It's a 90/10 split between not tryharding/trolling too hard and legitimately uncarryable though.

At low ELO (smurf at ~gold II level), I tend to scoff at the skill level of the players around me and do dumb stuff like seriously overextend, be extremely greedy (get kill, shove the wave all the way in despite having no wards etc.) and have a mindset of 1v5 or 2v5 rather than 5v5. If I actually tryhard, play safe, stable and actively tell my team what to do it's pretty impossible to lose and that's the way it is with most pros as well.

Examples of both in recent history are my 17/1/19 game on AP nidalee, 18/6/9 game on jayce, 12/3/8 on TF etc, while my AP GP mid and first time zed didn't go quite so well.

On July 28 2013 10:27 canikizu wrote:
It's also because of game design that makes it hard to carry by yourself. In Dota2, you can easily carry the game by yourself very often, especially if you play heroes like sf, antimage,.v..v. But in LoL, there're no champs that you can carry the game by yourself

LoL game is designed so that to carry the game, you have to go glass cannon route, and since you're glass, it's very hard to 1v5 even if your farm/items are far ahead. On the other hand, dota is design so that stats and items for carry always have some kind of sustain, and it gets to the point that if you get enough items you can pretty much carry the game by yourself.

On July 28 2013 10:15 Ryuu314 wrote:
I don't think the skill differential/fluctuation is that wide, though. At most, maybe 1 entire league, but more often than not it's probably just a few divisions.

I agree that there are legitimately uncarryable games, but they're not common enough to warrant someone not being able to get within a few divisions of their true elo purely because of these uncarryable games.

On July 28 2013 10:37 red_ wrote:

Antimage is actually really bad to carry a typical game by yourself because if your team is failing you almost never get the space to become a 1v5 AM. That's a nitpicky point but everyone always says AM when they talk like this and it's pretty silly. Realistically you want the more powerful midgame heroes/gankers, so that you can basically make it impossible for your team to fail around you by creating so much space, and feeding so much gold to your teammates(and yourself).

All of the above is my opinion.

On July 28 2013 10:32 Ryuu314 wrote:

Eh I disagree with that. In Dota, if you're playing a hard carry like AM or PL, you can very easily lose the game long before you get to hyper carry status. In fact, it happens quite often in pubs which is evidenced by hard carries tendency to have not too good winrates. There are a few exceptions, but by and large how easy it is to carry single-handedly in Dota is vastly overstated.

On the flip side, there are some champs in LoL that can do something similar. For example, a 40 min Ryze is probably going to roll you if his team isn't too far behind. You can also play strong snowball champs like any assassin or stuff like TF/Panth who carry the game by getting their team so far ahead they can't possibly lose.

Both games have ways for a player to "single-handedly" carry the game. Both games also have mechanisms to prevent that.