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[Patch 3.05.1: Karma Remake] General Discussion - Page 15

Forum Index > LoL General
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Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
March 28 2013 21:40 GMT
#281
On March 29 2013 06:33 Seuss wrote:
It's still telling me the server is busy.

Server availability is inversely proportional to age
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 28 2013 21:42 GMT
#282
On March 29 2013 05:51 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 04:52 thenexusp wrote:
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote:
Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)

I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.

its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.

you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg

edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour
so e.g
2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp
1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage)
2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp
hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess

but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)

Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:

Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.

Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?

If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage.
(The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)


you're right actually that occured to me but is there some sort of algorithm for working out that to apply for that specific sort of situation?


I'd start with calculating enemy DPS:

You'd do something like:

spell damage/ cd = base spell DPS
-divide this into its magic and physical components
-so you have magic dps, and you multiply it by (1+mpen) for what i'll case "base" magic DPS

aa damage * atkspd = aa base physical dps
-add physical spell damage component
-multiply by (1+ arpen) for "base" physical DPS

so you have the punching bag then...
base HP
take the "base" magic DPS and divide by (1+ mr), and this will be the actual magic dps done to the champ
take the "base" physical DPS and divide by (1+ armor) and this will be the actual physical dps done to the champ

add them together to get the total actual dps done to the champ.

finally, you'll subtract their hp regen from that for dps to a champ.

interestingly, i've never thought of cdr as effectively a % multiplier on your damage.

you can add in stuff for wit's end, spell sword, etc. pretty easily.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
March 28 2013 21:47 GMT
#283
On March 29 2013 06:40 krndandaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 06:27 Dusty wrote:
NA Queue is up, need to urflevel the launcher though


does that get you banned?


no

not worth logging in atm either, normals only and the queues are fugged up right now
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
March 28 2013 21:48 GMT
#284
That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.
ExceeD_DreaM
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada500 Posts
March 28 2013 21:59 GMT
#285
over 2 hour wait for the NA queue hahahaha
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
March 28 2013 22:00 GMT
#286
On March 29 2013 06:59 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
over 2 hour wait for the NA queue hahahaha


ffffuuuuuu I had a 12 min queue but my login errored QQ.

Hopefully I can get on when I get home. Doubt it but oh well.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
March 28 2013 22:08 GMT
#287
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote:
That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.


I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
March 28 2013 22:13 GMT
#288
when i watched the scarra grilled interview, i can't help but think that he is on another level when it comes to thinking about the game, and how i want to get to that level.

and to think that he's not even on the level of asian teams/gambit, and that he understands that and is still constantly thinking how to get there.

damn.
KarlKaliente
Profile Joined March 2012
United States434 Posts
March 28 2013 22:14 GMT
#289
On March 29 2013 07:00 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 06:59 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
over 2 hour wait for the NA queue hahahaha


ffffuuuuuu I had a 12 min queue but my login errored QQ.

Hopefully I can get on when I get home. Doubt it but oh well.


I was down to 15 minutes, then my roommate decided it was a good time to patch our router.

1hr 50 min wheeeeee
UMS > Melee
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
March 28 2013 22:29 GMT
#290
patch udyrs

patch udyrs everywhere
Zizoz
Profile Joined June 2012
United States232 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-28 22:36:42
March 28 2013 22:29 GMT
#291
On March 29 2013 07:08 Juicyfruit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote:
That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.


I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.

I think you have it backwards; you want ((100+armor)/(100+MR))^2 = physical/magic.

Edit: Calculations: You take p physical damage and m magic damage and have x armor and y = T-x MR. We want d/dx(p*100/(100+x) +m*100/(100+T-x)) = 0. This means -p*100/(100+x)^2 - -1*m*100/(100+T-x)^2 =0, so m/(100+T-x)^2 = p/(100+x)^2, so p/m = (100+x)^2/(100+y)^2
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
March 28 2013 22:29 GMT
#292
Tried to start up league, hit play fatal error with a sad amumu pop up every time. I'd say servers are still borked.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
March 28 2013 22:31 GMT
#293
On March 29 2013 07:29 Parnage wrote:
Tried to start up league, hit play fatal error with a sad amumu pop up every time. I'd say servers are still borked.


you have to repair your game if you get that
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-28 22:45:18
March 28 2013 22:35 GMT
#294
I made a spread sheet that should work to calculate the minimum required health, armour, and mr for the least gold given a few basic parameters. It could easily be expanded to include penetrations and such with a little effort.

Download and you'll need the Excel solver (may have to download; also not sure if it saves solver the settings, so I took a screenshot as well).

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-0kND-xCpavazBVNktkZDBpSEU/edit?usp=sharing
[image loading]

Edit: ofc all credit to the nexusp :p
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 28 2013 22:38 GMT
#295
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote:
Turrets buffed by 10%.
I'm out of here.
Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard...
I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?


This is a bit late by me, but the obvious conclusion to come to is that one of Riot's earlygame goals was to limit the effectiveness of early game ganks (in comparison with farming the jungle). This change MAY accomplish that. The problem still is that there is no choice. Junglers who go Buffs>Gank (even ignoring things like wraiths during the first clear) give their team a greater advantage even if the gank results in nothing more than a few free hits. If you force a flash, get a kill, or get a turret, the math is even more in favor of the gank.

The goal is obviously to make the lvl 3 gank less powerful because the zoning should give less of a chance of a future towerdive ~ lvl 6.
Freeeeeeedom
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-28 22:40:56
March 28 2013 22:39 GMT
#296
On March 29 2013 07:29 Zizoz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 07:08 Juicyfruit wrote:
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote:
That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.


I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.

I think you have it backwards; you want ((100+armor)/(100+MR))^2 = physical/magic.

Edit: Calculations: You take p physical damage and m magic damage and have x armor and y = T-x MR. We want d/dx(p*100/(100+x) +m*100/(100+T-x)) = 0. This means -p*100/(100+x)^2 - -1*m*100/(100+T-x)^2 =0, so m/(100+T-x)^2 = p/(100+x)^2, so p/m = (100+x)^2/(100+y)^2


Yours Is a lot more accurate, but I'm trying to get a good way to estimate quickly ingame by looking at the death recap screen, and then figuring out what you need to be buying.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11824 Posts
March 28 2013 22:47 GMT
#297
At that accuracy you might as well just look at what you are more scared of and either build one of the health + armor items (sunfire, randuins, locket, ancient golem) if it is AD or a negatron + health/aegis/spirit visage if you are one of the champs that likes it if it is Magic.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 28 2013 22:48 GMT
#298
On March 29 2013 06:13 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2013 05:39 Sufficiency wrote:
On March 29 2013 05:09 Parnage wrote:
On March 29 2013 05:05 Sufficiency wrote:
On March 29 2013 05:04 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote:
Is there LCS today? No?

Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.


Thanks. Time to play some boob physics MMO for me, I guess.


Gw2? Or.. that Scarlet blade one with the not safe for wussies thing?


Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.


Oh my.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-28 22:53:50
March 28 2013 22:52 GMT
#299
On March 29 2013 07:47 Simberto wrote:
At that accuracy you might as well just look at what you are more scared of and either build one of the health + armor items (sunfire, randuins, locket, ancient golem) if it is AD or a negatron + health/aegis/spirit visage if you are one of the champs that likes it if it is Magic.


Sure but that's not what's being asked. It's fairly accurate anyhow. People build items bases around utility rather than just stats anyways but it does tend to illustrate that if you are taking taking even a 60:40 split in damage its quite beneficial to focus on 1 resistance rather than 2 (+ HP).
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
March 28 2013 22:59 GMT
#300
On March 29 2013 06:59 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
over 2 hour wait for the NA queue hahahaha

2 hours and 1 minute exactly.
twitch.tv/cratonz
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