Freezing lanes is possible just fine, the problem is that if you're freezing the lane and the enemy 2v1 is pushing, the tower goes down too fast for you to get enough work done with regard to zoning your opponent. Taking a tower allows a team to break up their laning arrangement, so the gold gain from the fast tower outdoes the gold denial from zoning the 1v2 because that tower can go down so quickly.
On March 21 2013 10:35 TheYango wrote: Wait we finally have LoL in a state where teams are actually playing lane arrangements other than 1-1-2-jungle mirrored and we have people asking how to go back to that? Fuck that. I like my laning arrangement diversity than you very much.
Not to mention that some potential solutions to blue/purple imbalance inherently push the game back toward mirrored lanes to begin with (one of the driving forces for lane swaps was the map asymmetry).
I just want tri-lanes
Honestly, with the way junglers play, it's more or less analogous to trilanes. It's just instead of having one support pulling 1-2 camps for XP, they have to clear more of the jungle because the jungle is easier to clear and because the per-camp gains of just doing 1-2 camps isn't good enough.
But otherwise you more or less right now have the equivalent idea of one "babysitting" support and one "roaming" support.
Then I guess I want more two duo lanes? I usually defend the Riot enforced meta more then most people...but I could go for more variety.
Wow Xerath free week, decided to try him out for the first time and holy shit is he so much fun. Haven't had this much fun with a champ since Diana release.
His W reminds me sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much of BW seige tanks.
On March 21 2013 10:35 TheYango wrote: Wait we finally have LoL in a state where teams are actually playing lane arrangements other than 1-1-2-jungle mirrored and we have people asking how to go back to that? Fuck that. I like my laning arrangement diversity than you very much.
Not to mention that some potential solutions to blue/purple imbalance inherently push the game back toward mirrored lanes to begin with (one of the driving forces for lane swaps was the map asymmetry).
I just want tri-lanes
Tbh, when you have a jungler like Chauster whose routine is like: Get blue buff Get red buff Camp doublelift's lane for 2 minutes
That's basically a Tri-lane anyway, just instead of pulling creep camps in the jungle every once in a while, he's farming them.
On March 21 2013 10:35 TheYango wrote: Wait we finally have LoL in a state where teams are actually playing lane arrangements other than 1-1-2-jungle mirrored and we have people asking how to go back to that? Fuck that. I like my laning arrangement diversity than you very much.
Not to mention that some potential solutions to blue/purple imbalance inherently push the game back toward mirrored lanes to begin with (one of the driving forces for lane swaps was the map asymmetry).
I just want tri-lanes
Tbh, when you have a jungler like Chauster whose routine is like: Get blue buff Get red buff Camp doublelift's lane for 2 minutes
That's basically a Tri-lane anyway, just instead of pulling creep camps in the jungle every once in a while, he's farming them.
I'm still Dota noob and forgot creep pulling was the job of the second support.
Hey guys. How are bruisers viable when they have to build offensive and defensive units but tanks and carries only have to build one or the other?
The multiplicative scaling on both tanks and damage dealers is massive. By the time you get a 100% increase in damage from items (1BT) and another one (one PD or LW or w/e) you'll get 2*2=4x damage. +300% in total. But if you get a warmogs and BT you get +100% damage and +100% defense. This means that you get +200% in total.
This confuses me a lot. I know being just tanky enough lets you do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to do like clear creeps in a respectable amount of time or survive all of Kennen's burst so you can kill him afterwards, but is that enough?
On March 21 2013 09:43 Terranasaur wrote: Random thought:
With the release of Blizz Dota, do we think/has anyone heard anything about other franchises branching out into the moba space?
Asking because I was playing league late last night, and I had a dream about a Super Smash Brothers moba and, needless to say, it was pretty sick. Pokemon could also make an AMAZING moba and is already kind of balanced around everyone having 4 skills. I know that pretty much every member of this forum would totes buy a pokemon moba. Alakazam Mid. Scyther Jungle. Dragonite Top. Blastoise / Jigglypuff bot. Bam.
I don't remember which company did it but a Lord of the Rings moba came out recently (or is coming out). It looked pretty terrible though.
Honestly with the success of League I'm pretty scared that MOBA is going to become the next "Modern Day Shooter" game where like five of them come out each year and they're all terrible. As much as I like Pokemon I'm pretty convinced a Pokemon moba would suck.
yeah that sounds terrible, all those awful games coming that you don't have to buy or care about
On March 21 2013 11:14 obesechicken13 wrote: Hey guys. How are bruisers viable when they have to build offensive and defensive units but tanks and carries only have to build one or the other?
The multiplicative scaling on both tanks and damage dealers is massive. By the time you get a 100% increase in damage from items (1BT) and another one (one PD or LW or w/e) you'll get 2*2=4x damage. +300% in total. But if you get a warmogs and BT you get +100% damage and +100% defense. This means that you get +200% in total.
This confuses me a lot. I know being just tanky enough lets you do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to do like clear creeps in a respectable amount of time or survive all of Kennen's burst so you can kill him afterwards, but is that enough?
Well what's the difference between a bruiser and a tank? + Show Spoiler +
On March 21 2013 11:14 obesechicken13 wrote: Hey guys. How are bruisers viable when they have to build offensive and defensive units but tanks and carries only have to build one or the other?
The multiplicative scaling on both tanks and damage dealers is massive. By the time you get a 100% increase in damage from items (1BT) and another one (one PD or LW or w/e) you'll get 2*2=4x damage. +300% in total. But if you get a warmogs and BT you get +100% damage and +100% defense. This means that you get +200% in total.
This confuses me a lot. I know being just tanky enough lets you do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to do like clear creeps in a respectable amount of time or survive all of Kennen's burst so you can kill him afterwards, but is that enough?
Better base stats and more utility/free stats in kits.
On March 21 2013 11:25 JALbert wrote: Riot won't probably bias the game more in favor of longer 1v2 phases because I imagine most people don't find getting zoned for a few minutes fun.
The counterplay is to look for things to do around the map. If they're freezing the lane it means they're not applying pressure to the tower, which means the laner is free to move around the map and gank lanes. Likewise, once the support has babysat the carry to the point where the carry can win the lane against the off-laner by themselves, it opens up the support to move around the map and gank.
You only get "zoned for a few minutes" if you don't know how to play the situation correctly. If implemented correctly, a "longer 1v2 phase" has the potential to lead to more early map movement and action.
Ideally, I'd like a game where at most 1-2 players are really static in their lanes (carry farming because they're the carry, mid farming to reach certain levels/items before becoming gank/fight ready), and the rest of the players are moving around fighting and killing each other from minute 1.
On March 21 2013 11:25 JALbert wrote: Riot won't probably bias the game more in favor of longer 1v2 phases because I imagine most people don't find getting zoned for a few minutes fun.
The counterplay is to look for things to do around the map. If they're freezing the lane it means they're not applying pressure to the tower, which means the laner is free to move around the map and gank lanes. Likewise, once the support has babysat the carry to the point where the carry can win the lane against the off-laner by themselves, it opens up the support to move around the map and gank.
You only get "zoned for a few minutes" if you don't know how to play the situation correctly. If implemented correctly, a "longer 1v2 phase" has the potential to lead to more early map movement and action.
Ideally, I'd like a game where at most 1-2 players are really static in their lanes (carry farming because they're the carry, mid farming to reach certain levels/items before becoming gank/fight ready), and the rest of the players are moving around fighting and killing each other from minute 1.
This is basically why I really loved when dignitas decided the answer to 1v2 losing tower was to put their duo lane mid, specifically to allow Patoy the freedom to roam around the map.