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On March 12 2013 05:19 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 04:27 Alaric wrote:I was around 50k before buying Cass. Neo said sometimes he had something like 60-70k. Play more.  I think he has more than that now. It's pretty ridic. Regarding Nami: Nami is a very versatile support who can cover a lot of bases, and also offers a lot of zone control and utility. But her strength is exactly why she's under-represented. Why play Nami when you could be playing someone like Blitz/Thresh/Ali and make plays? At the same time, Lulu and Sona are already very well known champions who people are comfortable playing on and with while also crowding into the same strengths that Nami has. Simply understanding when you have kill/poke/tower potential and how each matchup is pretty important. At the same time, Nami has no defining lane partner. For example, Sona/Ez or Twitch/Lulu are both very powerful duo lanes that people understand and can execute to maximum potential. Nami on the other hand I think is going to need more time before figure out what matchups she actually works in. On a personal note, I think she might have potential as a partner to Koggles and as a counter to Taric but this is going into speculation since I've only played Nami twice.
I really like her with Varus. Their CC combo extremely well together.
Speaking of which, I should probably get back to writing that guide. >.>
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On March 12 2013 06:22 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 06:14 MoonBear wrote:On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric. Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right. Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that. Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off. Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though). Hm. With Nami though you're setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha. If this is your game plan you should just be picking Zyra into Taric. you have all the tools to make counterplays and FREE BRUSH CONTROL which is just too important in a taric lane. it isn't so much about Nami being bad vs taric as much as Zyra being the best by a wide margin.
Nami has one thing that is a huge weakness in a Zyra support lane... sustain.
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On March 12 2013 06:25 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 06:22 Slusher wrote:On March 12 2013 06:14 MoonBear wrote:On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric. Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right. Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that. Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off. Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though). Hm. With Nami though you're setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha. If this is your game plan you should just be picking Zyra into Taric. you have all the tools to make counterplays and FREE BRUSH CONTROL which is just too important in a taric lane. it isn't so much about Nami being bad vs taric as much as Zyra being the best by a wide margin. Nami has one thing that is a huge weakness in a Zyra support lane... sustain.
free brush control is just more important vs Taric
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On March 12 2013 06:14 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric. Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right. Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that. Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off. Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though). Hm. With Nami though you're not setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha. EDIT: Forgot the not GGME
Well, when I saw Taric counter, I thought that would mean that a Nami lane would be advantageous over a Taric lane, but if it just works out to a draw then I'm not sure I'd call it a counter.
Eh, just nitpicking at this point, carry on.
My opinion of Riot balancing was solidified in the last round of patches when they nerfed Kassadin's Nether Blade against structures. Well, I'm glad they are paying attention to such game-breaking issues like that, those tower pushing Kassadin team comps were always a huge problem. Pfft.
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That was just cleaning up a bug/inconsistency. You seriously need to grow up if those kind of things push you over the edge.
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Is Taric jungle really the secret OP?
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On March 12 2013 06:54 GranDim wrote:
That was just cleaning up a bug/inconsistency. You seriously need to grow up if those kind of things push you over the edge.
Death by a thousand papercuts. These individual changes aren't particularly bad, but they add up. Bugs/inconsistencies are features when they're not super overpowered. It's the constant removal of features that dilute the game into being less complex/fun.
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On March 12 2013 06:44 kainzero wrote:
My opinion of Riot balancing was solidified in the last round of patches when they nerfed Kassadin's Nether Blade against structures. Well, I'm glad they are paying attention to such game-breaking issues like that, those tower pushing Kassadin team comps were always a huge problem. Pfft.
Huh? Kassadin's Nether Blade never did damage to turrets, it only did bonus damage to inhibitors and the nexus, which was hugely inconsistent. They either had to let it do damage to turrets too, or to take away the bonus damage to inhibs/nexus, and they chose the latter.
(Although the inconsistency between champs as to which champs get to proc their on-hit magic damage vs. structures and which ones don't is another issue)
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But then it's not unique special snowflake and never useful 90% of the time! How dare they!
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Shhhhh don't tempt them into nerfing my Diana D:
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the point i was going for was that there are way more pressing issues than nether blade's consistency. no one really cares.
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On March 12 2013 07:42 kainzero wrote:
the point i was going for was that there are way more pressing issues than nether blade's consistency. no one really cares.
I'm in software, and this is how these things usually work: An intern arrives at the office, you want to give him a pretty-easy but still kind-of-impactful first project to work on. You go to him and say "hey, kassadin's nether blade is kinda weird, why don't you fix that, it should be straightforward and you'll even get a line on the patch notes all to yourself"
EDIT: you can also replace the intern with a full-time engineer who has just started and isn't familiar with the code base.
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On March 12 2013 07:11 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 06:44 kainzero wrote:
My opinion of Riot balancing was solidified in the last round of patches when they nerfed Kassadin's Nether Blade against structures. Well, I'm glad they are paying attention to such game-breaking issues like that, those tower pushing Kassadin team comps were always a huge problem. Pfft. Huh? Kassadin's Nether Blade never did damage to turrets, it only did bonus damage to inhibitors and the nexus, which was hugely inconsistent. They either had to let it do damage to turrets too, or to take away the bonus damage to inhibs/nexus, and they chose the latter. (Although the inconsistency between champs as to which champs get to proc their on-hit magic damage vs. structures and which ones don't is another issue)
Really? But there are tons of inconsistencies with inhibitors and turrets. They almost seem like completely different things.
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What's the deal with XP boosts nowadays? I have a smurf i'd like to level, but I don't know if I should XP boost it up because lower levels gain more IP, right?
You get more IP over the same period of time by sticking it out at lower levels, right?
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I don't think that's true. The IP formula is fixed, it's on the wiki you can check it.
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Low levels get a minor IP boost I'm pretty sure (not sure if this is tied to # of games or your summoner level though). Also low levels don't get a IP penalty for playing vs. AI games. Besides that the formula is the same.
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Uh... a champ did no damage to me, nothing, nada, jack shit. I died to the tower, he gets the kill, and the death recap lists him as doing... nothing. Bug?
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On March 12 2013 08:30 Alaric wrote:
Uh... a champ did no damage to me, nothing, nada, jack shit. I died to the tower, he gets the kill, and the death recap lists him as doing... nothing. Bug?
Which champ?
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On March 12 2013 08:30 Alaric wrote:
Uh... a champ did no damage to me, nothing, nada, jack shit. I died to the tower, he gets the kill, and the death recap lists him as doing... nothing. Bug?
Non-damaging cc's also give kills. Stuff like singed goo, wither etc grants assists/kills
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EPT
