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[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 117

Forum Index > LoL General
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Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 11 2013 20:24 GMT
#2321
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.
Carrilord has arrived.
samthesaluki
Profile Joined November 2010
914 Posts
March 11 2013 20:26 GMT
#2322
I think nami can lane with most adcs depending how you play i agree she is prolly best in non solo play and i honestly thinkthink she is not played due to the fact its hard to sinergize in soloq and also most teams pick a support than can do a specific job where nami is good all round but doesnt excel,also ease of use in soloq why pick nami for her q when you can have taric that can point and click stun
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 11 2013 20:29 GMT
#2323
On March 12 2013 05:07 Sufficiency wrote:
Now Riot wants to nerf Akali? Lol.

Riot reactionary nerf at its best.

According to one of them they're looking at mechanics nerfs rather than numbers, which I could be pretty fine with. Without a pink ward (and that's a pretty hefty investment, unlike an anti-gank pink that can cost only 100 if you know where your opponent warded himself) Shroud is just too good, with the 0.5s unstealth being too short to really use it early game (not enough AS, slow making it hard to be in range to begin with) and the fade out time once she leaves the shroud being so long the stealth's effective range is actually really damn wide.
(I still have a hard time wrapping my head over the 8s 50 armour and MR steroid at max level, too. If you put it down right it's more potent than Jax's ult's active.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
March 11 2013 20:30 GMT
#2324
On March 12 2013 05:26 samthesaluki wrote:
I think nami can lane with most adcs depending how you play i agree she is prolly best in non solo play and i honestly thinkthink she is not played due to the fact its hard to sinergize in soloq and also most teams pick a support than can do a specific job where nami is good all round but doesnt excel,also ease of use in soloq why pick nami for her q when you can have taric that can point and click stun

Is it against your religion to use sentences, punctuation and paragraphs?
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Purge
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada372 Posts
March 11 2013 20:36 GMT
#2325
On March 12 2013 05:19 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 04:27 Alaric wrote:
I was around 50k before buying Cass. Neo said sometimes he had something like 60-70k.
Play more.

I think he has more than that now. It's pretty ridic.

Regarding Nami: Nami is a very versatile support who can cover a lot of bases, and also offers a lot of zone control and utility. But her strength is exactly why she's under-represented. Why play Nami when you could be playing someone like Blitz/Thresh/Ali and make plays? At the same time, Lulu and Sona are already very well known champions who people are comfortable playing on and with while also crowding into the same strengths that Nami has. Simply understanding when you have kill/poke/tower potential and how each matchup is pretty important. At the same time, Nami has no defining lane partner. For example, Sona/Ez or Twitch/Lulu are both very powerful duo lanes that people understand and can execute to maximum potential. Nami on the other hand I think is going to need more time before figure out what matchups she actually works in. On a personal note, I think she might have potential as a partner to Koggles and as a counter to Taric but this is going into speculation since I've only played Nami twice.


Im not really that knowledgeable in bot lane strategies, nor have I played Nami on more than PBE prerelease, but I have seen her used in the StarWars League (I believe it was with a Kog'maw, but Ill have to look), so there has to be some credibility to the idea that she offers something other supports don't. Id honestly say that the Star Wars league is among the most skillful of all the tournaments Ive ever seen in League too.

Also moonbear your bans are hilarious.

Just wait till the Super Week recap comes out, we give dig their well deserved props.

As a team I've always liked them well enough, especially Scarra since his stream was a great resource when I was still new to the game. I know coming into the LCS I wasn't very high on dig for a couple reasons: precedent for epic throws, new line-up untested at a LAN, poor showing Week 1. It was clear they were trending up after Week 2 and Week 3, but Super Week proved they seem to be the real deal.

Edit: They have a show match against Gambit at MLG Dallas, probably not quite what you meant by worldwide stage but it'll give us a look at how they do against a top team.


Thats exactly what I mean - I want to see them (and moreso Clg) prove that they are among the most competitive teams in the world. If Dig can fight Gambit well, then its proof that their hard work is paying off, as well as that NA can compete at that the highest level of play. I still remember Dlift after S2 finals saying that they felt like they could only take 10-20/100 games off WE back then. World Elite has only gotten better since then - and using them as the benchmark for S3 finalist material - how close are Clg and Dig to that? Thats what has me so excited, because my only fear is that s3 finals will be like s2 for both CLG and Dig.
"Never do an enemy a small injury." - Machiavelli
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 20:48:10
March 11 2013 20:47 GMT
#2326
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

On March 12 2013 05:26 samthesaluki wrote:
I think nami can lane with most adcs depending how you play i agree she is prolly best in non solo play and i honestly thinkthink she is not played due to the fact its hard to sinergize in soloq and also most teams pick a support than can do a specific job where nami is good all round but doesnt excel,also ease of use in soloq why pick nami for her q when you can have taric that can point and click stun

Pretty much. Even more so than other supports, I think it's a champion where you need to be on the same wavelength as your AD Carry. With, say, Lulu you can probably single-handedly 1v2 the lane and champions like Taric are very obvious to follow up on. Nami's kill potential and aggression in lane is far more subtle and her spells only really work in conjunction with someone else, sort of like Leona but with less hard CC and "OMGIMGOINGIN" shock factor.

On March 12 2013 05:36 Purge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:19 MoonBear wrote:
On March 12 2013 04:27 Alaric wrote:
I was around 50k before buying Cass. Neo said sometimes he had something like 60-70k.
Play more.

I think he has more than that now. It's pretty ridic.

Regarding Nami: Nami is a very versatile support who can cover a lot of bases, and also offers a lot of zone control and utility. But her strength is exactly why she's under-represented. Why play Nami when you could be playing someone like Blitz/Thresh/Ali and make plays? At the same time, Lulu and Sona are already very well known champions who people are comfortable playing on and with while also crowding into the same strengths that Nami has. Simply understanding when you have kill/poke/tower potential and how each matchup is pretty important. At the same time, Nami has no defining lane partner. For example, Sona/Ez or Twitch/Lulu are both very powerful duo lanes that people understand and can execute to maximum potential. Nami on the other hand I think is going to need more time before figure out what matchups she actually works in. On a personal note, I think she might have potential as a partner to Koggles and as a counter to Taric but this is going into speculation since I've only played Nami twice.

Im not really that knowledgeable in bot lane strategies, nor have I played Nami on more than PBE prerelease, but I have seen her used in the StarWars League (I believe it was with a Kog'maw, but Ill have to look), so there has to be some credibility to the idea that she offers something other supports don't. Id honestly say that the Star Wars league is among the most skillful of all the tournaments Ive ever seen in League too.

Also moonbear your bans are hilarious.

Yeah StarWars is pretty good although I still wouldn't read too heavily into it since I think teams haven't quite fully thought about Nami yet. Still, nice to see my hunch about Koggles being right.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 11 2013 20:57 GMT
#2327
On March 12 2013 05:07 Sufficiency wrote:
Now Riot wants to nerf Akali? Lol.

Riot reactionary nerf at its best.

I will never be upset about an Akali nerf, easily my most hated champ in League. I'm a tad biased.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 11 2013 21:00 GMT
#2328
On March 12 2013 05:29 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:07 Sufficiency wrote:
Now Riot wants to nerf Akali? Lol.

Riot reactionary nerf at its best.

According to one of them they're looking at mechanics nerfs rather than numbers, which I could be pretty fine with. Without a pink ward (and that's a pretty hefty investment, unlike an anti-gank pink that can cost only 100 if you know where your opponent warded himself) Shroud is just too good, with the 0.5s unstealth being too short to really use it early game (not enough AS, slow making it hard to be in range to begin with) and the fade out time once she leaves the shroud being so long the stealth's effective range is actually really damn wide.
(I still have a hard time wrapping my head over the 8s 50 armour and MR steroid at max level, too. If you put it down right it's more potent than Jax's ult's active.)

I guess they were frustrated how easily it was for akali to "outplay" people, especially at low health battles.

Akali is in a good state right now; sort of annoying how she keeps getting nerfed constatnly.
liftlift > tsm
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 11 2013 21:07 GMT
#2329
It's another nerf that would be targeted at her pubstomp potential. I know the general population of TL is against these sort of nerfs, but she's a monster a lower Elos. I posted this in the QQ thread (replying to someone else complaining about Akalki), she is the perfect champ for abusing soloq: high burst, high mobility, deceptive healing from spell vamp, players don't punish her in bad match-ups and they people don't focus her in team fights (general lack of focus in team fights with random players applies to everyone I suppose). And people don't grab pink wards to deal with her in lane.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
March 11 2013 21:08 GMT
#2330
On March 12 2013 06:00 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:29 Alaric wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:07 Sufficiency wrote:
Now Riot wants to nerf Akali? Lol.

Riot reactionary nerf at its best.

According to one of them they're looking at mechanics nerfs rather than numbers, which I could be pretty fine with. Without a pink ward (and that's a pretty hefty investment, unlike an anti-gank pink that can cost only 100 if you know where your opponent warded himself) Shroud is just too good, with the 0.5s unstealth being too short to really use it early game (not enough AS, slow making it hard to be in range to begin with) and the fade out time once she leaves the shroud being so long the stealth's effective range is actually really damn wide.
(I still have a hard time wrapping my head over the 8s 50 armour and MR steroid at max level, too. If you put it down right it's more potent than Jax's ult's active.)

I guess they were frustrated how easily it was for akali to "outplay" people, especially at low health battles.

Akali is in a good state right now; sort of annoying how she keeps getting nerfed constatnly.

wasnt she buffed in last few patches lol?
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
March 11 2013 21:08 GMT
#2331
On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off.

Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though).
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 21:09:33
March 11 2013 21:09 GMT
#2332
And can't be peeled by most supports.

In my Nami experience, it's very hard to run out of mana in lane through straight W spam, if you fight a lot and have to use Q and E all the time, then maybe.
But why?
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6215 Posts
March 11 2013 21:10 GMT
#2333
On March 12 2013 05:10 Chrispy wrote:
Akali deserves nerf. Not huge nerfs, just some small damage nerfs.


From this thread:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35474166#35474166

They're looking at changing her stealth so that she's immediately revealed when she leaves it, not half a second after she leaves.
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 21:16:38
March 11 2013 21:12 GMT
#2334
I seriously think Akali is over powered at lower levels. I've never gone negative on her. My level 15 friend, who goes negative every game he plays with us, and isn't Akali, has never gone negative on Akali. She's so easy to do huge damage with, and just be useful all game. As long as she has a gunblade, she'll instagib any squishy throughout the whole game; best pubstomp champion by far.

Prolevel she might be fun though. Not too sure about that.
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
Phunkapotamus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States496 Posts
March 11 2013 21:13 GMT
#2335
On March 12 2013 06:10 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:10 Chrispy wrote:
Akali deserves nerf. Not huge nerfs, just some small damage nerfs.


From this thread:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35474166#35474166

They're looking at changing her stealth so that she's immediately revealed when she leaves it, not half a second after she leaves.


Ugh. I always thought that her stealth was clunky in how it constantly does a reapply check rather than an instantaneous on/off. I wouldn't mind the stealth not sticking if shroud were more responsive and didn't have a cast animation.
"Do a barrel roll"
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 21:23:04
March 11 2013 21:14 GMT
#2336
On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off.

Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though).

Hm. With Nami though you're not setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha.

EDIT: Forgot the not GGME

On March 12 2013 06:10 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:10 Chrispy wrote:
Akali deserves nerf. Not huge nerfs, just some small damage nerfs.


From this thread:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35474166#35474166

They're looking at changing her stealth so that she's immediately revealed when she leaves it, not half a second after she leaves.

This makes me so sad. I'm slowly running out of champions I can actually play
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
March 11 2013 21:22 GMT
#2337
You'll always have the bear jungle..

I dunno, seems like a fair enough change, her stealthing off out of the shroud was bothersome but it also created many awesome plays, perhaps just lowering the reveal time out of shroud?
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
March 11 2013 21:22 GMT
#2338
On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off.

Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though).


Well yeah, you don't try to autoattack a taric unless enemy AD carry is not in position to respond even if he stuns you. There's no real onus on Nami to expose herself in this matchup. If taric goes to stun your AD carry, you counter with slows and stuns and probably get the full effect of your heal.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 11 2013 21:22 GMT
#2339
On March 12 2013 06:14 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off.

Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though).

Hm. With Nami though you're setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha.


If this is your game plan you should just be picking Zyra into Taric. you have all the tools to make counterplays and FREE BRUSH CONTROL which is just too important in a taric lane. it isn't so much about Nami being bad vs taric as much as Zyra being the best by a wide margin.
Carrilord has arrived.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
March 11 2013 21:23 GMT
#2340
On March 12 2013 06:14 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 06:08 kainzero wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:47 MoonBear wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:24 Slusher wrote:
as much as I like Nami I can't see myself (intentionally) picking anything other than Zyra into Taric.

Nami's Q is only 60 mana at all levels and 875 range which is longer than Taric's 625 range 75 mana stun (and don't forget it's AoE so that's an extra 75 range or so). You should always be able to peel anything, and depending on your opponents even water-ball the AD Carry and Taric at the same. Alternatively, it's a really long range gank-stopper. The delay+AoE on her Aqua Prison even leads me to believe you could use it to counter someone's teleport if timed right.

Her support for burst damage isn't the same as Taric/Sona Q-Powerchord but you should be able to respond to aggression in the lane. With an increasing emphasis on aggression (driven by Asian play) and with people people getting better mechanically, there's a shift towards strong cs as well as using as much downtime in your autos/spells to get in harass or go for kills. I think Nami might work as a nice foil to that.

Nami's Aqua Prison is nowhere near as reliable as Taric's Dazzle, which is absolutely important. More important is that Nami's attack range is within Dazzle range, which means you have to rely on Ebb and Flow for harass, and Taric can heal it off.

Also, you can't peel everything. There have been a number of times I've missed Aqua Prison because of a juke by my own team when trying to get the enemy off of them. Nor is the AoE reliable enough to expect to get 2+ people every time (getting 4-man bubbles is a great feeling though).

Hm. With Nami though you're setting up a kill lane. You're just aiming to passify any aggression and just stall the lane and farm. Nami is very counter-initiate in my opinion. Using her Q or R as initiation in most circumstances in my mind seems like a bit of a mistake. In other words, you make counterplays, not plays. Seems a but counter-intuitive I guess haha.

Show nested quote +
On March 12 2013 06:10 Lmui wrote:
On March 12 2013 05:10 Chrispy wrote:
Akali deserves nerf. Not huge nerfs, just some small damage nerfs.


From this thread:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35474166#35474166

They're looking at changing her stealth so that she's immediately revealed when she leaves it, not half a second after she leaves.

This makes me so sad. I'm slowly running out of champions I can actually play

That's not even a huge nerf... it just reduces some of the ridiculous factor of certain akali jukes (where you end up going from like a bubble in mid lane -> run a few steps out + flash to a side bush without ever going visible
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