EPT[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 357
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On January 09 2013 15:56 OutlaW- wrote: Dan Dinh is a person I would 100% not want to be on a team with. Anyhow, new discussion. Wickd said in an interview that he really wants towers to get buffed and this is what I posted in response. Honestly, I think towers should be nerfed. They promote passive game-play and make making plays less viable. If they were to be nerfed, the game would shift to bigger aggressivity, which would make competitive play much more fun to watch. The only reason towers are as good as they are is to prevent dives, which can destroy the game for new players who need that ''safe'' place in order not to die. In my mind, towers are as strong as they are for non-competitive play. It would suck getting dived by good players in soloq, because your team wouldn't react and you'd get screwed more easily. But for organized 5v5, nerfing towers would without a doubt be a good change. Thoughts? Should be nerfed? lol after 10 minutes into the game they dont do anything | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:47 wei2coolman wrote: So, how viable is Jungle Ez? Supposedly St.V got to 2200 elo with like 65% winrate with it on his alternate account. It's almost blue buff dependent. A lot of the times jacky will give up the blue so st.v can have it. As far as it being viable in professional/competitive play I wouldn't think so. Solo/duo Q just about anything goes. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22805-unoffical-pbe-patch-notes-for-1-9-2013 | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: so eve ult just got kicked in the balls on PBE http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22805-unoffical-pbe-patch-notes-for-1-9-2013 they should lower the base damage but not make it current health fuck that | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: so eve ult just got kicked in the balls on PBE http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22805-unoffical-pbe-patch-notes-for-1-9-2013 Biggest nerf is the cooldown, but at max level the 20 seconds is negligible with around 35% cdr including dfg+bluebuff+ masteries. The ulti nerf to "current" health isn't TOO big of an issue, since it's usually the "opening" move, so doesn't matter too much, what it will change is that you can't just use to to snipe a kill, when a low health champion is walking around. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:54 arb wrote: they should lower the base damage but not make it current health fuck that Nerf still seems pretty hard, I expect her winrate to plummet. EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THAT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN ANYTHING. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:49 arb wrote: Should be nerfed? lol after 10 minutes into the game they dont do anything That's not true. They are still too strong. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:02 wei2coolman wrote: Biggest nerf is the cooldown, but at max level the 20 seconds is negligible with around 35% cdr including dfg+bluebuff+ masteries. The ulti nerf to "current" health isn't TOO big of an issue, since it's usually the "opening" move, so doesn't matter too much, what it will change is that you can't just use to to snipe a kill, when a low health champion is walking around. yeah, that's a good point actually. nerfs her roaming a bit but not really her teamfights | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On January 09 2013 15:56 OutlaW- wrote: Dan Dinh is a person I would 100% not want to be on a team with. Anyhow, new discussion. Wickd said in an interview that he really wants towers to get buffed and this is what I posted in response. Honestly, I think towers should be nerfed. They promote passive game-play and make making plays less viable. If they were to be nerfed, the game would shift to bigger aggressivity, which would make competitive play much more fun to watch. The only reason towers are as good as they are is to prevent dives, which can destroy the game for new players who need that ''safe'' place in order not to die. In my mind, towers are as strong as they are for non-competitive play. It would suck getting dived by good players in soloq, because your team wouldn't react and you'd get screwed more easily. But for organized 5v5, nerfing towers would without a doubt be a good change. Thoughts? I disagree. If LoL worked more like Dota, sure, but it doesn't. If you get 2 man dived, you need that tower to save you early game, you can't TP out and you can't juke them in the forest like you can in Dota. In LoL, you die if they properly tank the tower, and there's literally nothing you can do. I've seen on Wickds stream when he comments on it and it's downright ridiculous. He and his jungler 2man dive on lvl 2-3 and get a guaranteed kill top. He even went in and soloed a Riven as Irelia on low level. That shouldn't be possible, because the only defense you have is that very tower. 4man ganks bot is one thing, but 2man shouldn't be able to dive top, at least not before lvl 6. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:06 Tobberoth wrote: I disagree. If LoL worked more like Dota, sure, but it doesn't. If you get 2 man dived, you need that tower to save you early game, you can't TP out and you can't juke them in the forest like you can in Dota. In LoL, you die if they properly tank the tower, and there's literally nothing you can do. I've seen on Wickds stream when he comments on it and it's downright ridiculous. He and his jungler 2man dive on lvl 2-3 and get a guaranteed kill top. He even went in and soloed a Riven as Irelia on low level. That shouldn't be possible, because the only defense you have is that very tower. 4man ganks bot is one thing, but 2man shouldn't be able to dive top, at least not before lvl 6. Basically, ive never actually heard anyone say towers are too strong, and ive been playing this game a long ass time | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Banner of Command switching 10 AP for 10% CDR, a slight buff, still don't think it's going to be worth picking up though t.t | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:06 Tobberoth wrote: I disagree. If LoL worked more like Dota, sure, but it doesn't. If you get 2 man dived, you need that tower to save you early game, you can't TP out and you can't juke them in the forest like you can in Dota. In LoL, you die if they properly tank the tower, and there's literally nothing you can do. I've seen on Wickds stream when he comments on it and it's downright ridiculous. He and his jungler 2man dive on lvl 2-3 and get a guaranteed kill top. He even went in and soloed a Riven as Irelia on low level. That shouldn't be possible, because the only defense you have is that very tower. 4man ganks bot is one thing, but 2man shouldn't be able to dive top, at least not before lvl 6. If somebody threatens to 2 man dive you, your jungler can counter gank for 2 relatively free kills. Bigger risk but big reward, too. Also, you can do exactly the same. Balance stays the same, game becomes more aggressive. You need a tower to defend you when 1 you're bad 2 you are much weaker. You will still win every trade no matter how weak you are if you aren't low HP. If you got out-traded and now low HP you made a big mistake and he should be able to punish you for it more. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:08 OutlaW- wrote: If somebody threatens to 2 man dive you, your jungler can counter gank for 2 relatively free kills. Bigger risk but big reward, too. Also, you can do exactly the same. Balance stays the same, game becomes more aggressive. There's a difference between the game being aggressive in a good way and the game removing a skillcap. If you are playing well, you should never die unless it's an "impossible" situation. Getting 2 man towerdived pre-level 6 shouldn't be one of those impossible situations. It's not about "being threatened", it's about some junglers being able to do ridiculous towerdives really early... are you saying it's OK that a top can't do shit about getting killed early, just because his jungler isn't good/his jungler is not one of the ones who can do the same kind of dives? Personally, I find the Dota way that you are responsible for your own deaths to be the best situation. I don't like when the game puts you in situations where you aren't in control whether you live or not. I like aggressive play, and LoL is already extremely aggressive. Making it a freekill to dive a tower just because your jungler is nearby and a fitting jungler, no thanks, that's not fun to be subjected to, and it's not fun to watch. Even worse, the idea that you can "counter-gank" with a jungler basically means "If you don't want to die to a 2man tower dive top, you have to stand by the tower constantly and your jungler can't leave your side because as soon as they see him bot, they will dive and kill you with 0 repercussion. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:07 Scip wrote: I have seen a LOT of random nerfs over the years, but the Annie Molten Shield nerf definitely takes the cake as the most random one, lol. Banner of Command switching 10 AP for 10% CDR, a slight buff, still don't think it's going to be worth picking up though t.t i think that last PBE patch they buffed Annie quite a bit and this is lowering the buffed values, not her live values | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:02 wei2coolman wrote: Biggest nerf is the cooldown, but at max level the 20 seconds is negligible with around 35% cdr including dfg+bluebuff+ masteries. The ulti nerf to "current" health isn't TOO big of an issue, since it's usually the "opening" move, so doesn't matter too much, what it will change is that you can't just use to to snipe a kill, when a low health champion is walking around. The cooldown nerf is essentially a revert of the CD buff that should never have happened in the first place. Eve honestly didn't really need to be buffed on release--it's just the game was much less gank-oriented then. Given the effectiveness of gankers from mid lane in recent patches, it's become clear that her post-remake buff was totally unnecessary. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2013 18:21 TheYango wrote: The cooldown nerf is essentially a revert of the CD buff that should never have happened in the first place. Eve honestly didn't really need to be buffed on release--it's just the game was much less gank-oriented then. Given the effectiveness of gankers from mid lane in recent patches, it's become clear that her post-remake buff was totally unnecessary. I enjoyed op'd post buff eve for too long I guess  Just a little sour bout new nerfs. Still, completely viable, she's still gunna be able to 100-0 any squishies if she gets jump on them. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
wtf | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
First you say that you should never die if you're playing well? What does that even mean? This is way too arbitrary a point. Here you're asking if I would allow a top laner to die if his jungler is bad. This will without a doubt make soloqing a worse experience, because you're forced to rely on your jungler, but it's not as bad as you make it sound. You talk about the top laner dying for free, but he really doesn't have to die at all. If he's good, all he has to do is just leave his tower and base (in the case of his jungler being bad), because he either realizes that being dived is a possibility and he hasn't seen their jungler or he just sees him with a ward. The defending jungler's ability to perform dives is irrelevant, he's can simply countergank for the same result. You can take junglers that dive well or you don't and only defend dives. I don't see a problem. The only thing that changes is junglers who are good at diving have more room to get kills and junglers who aren't good at diving can counter-gank and get easy kills as well. Basically the dynamic stays exactly the same in terms of junglers. You will get screwed more often if your jungler is good, but if he isn't, more plays will be created. And I'm only talking about 2v2/3v3 dives, not 1v1 dives. Having a weaker turret means that bad play will be more easily punishable. You are always responsible for your own deaths. If you get dived and die, you should have backed off. I don't see an impossible situation. The entire point of your post is that dives are free kills, but this is laughable. I'm repeating myself because so are you; if your top laner is in a situation where he will die if dived, you can countergank for free kills. You're also acting like towers don't exist at all. Making them weaker will not make them completely irrelevant. Unless you know that their jungler isn't in position, diving is always a big risk as well. Even worse, the idea that you can "counter-gank" with a jungler basically means "If you don't want to die to a 2man tower dive top, you have to stand by the tower constantly and your jungler can't leave your side because as soon as they see him bot, they will dive and kill you with 0 repercussion. Are you saying that your opponent's jungler will be waiting near top lane (in a spot that's not warded, remember; getting wards at lvl 1 is common now) for the other jungler to show bottom? So if the jungler doesn't show at all, you will be simply sitting somewhere wasting time? If the jungler ganks bottom, he's being responsible for allowing plays to be made in the top side of the map. You just ganked bottom, and he ganked top. I still don't see the problem. Not only is there possibility for more kills bottom, but the top laner could have simply backed off. Again, I think your point is nonsensical. You're saying that because there's a possibility to gank and dive top lane, junglers shouldn't gank and dive bottom lane? | ||
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